Avigor
2018-05-25, 04:28 AM
While reading Compliance Will Be Rewarded (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448542-Compliance-Will-Be-Rewarded-A-Guide-to-Lawful-Evil), I found myself thinking of a build for an LE Noble Variant Human (for Inspiring Leader at level 1), with Retainers who would basically lug around gear and help set up camp and be following him around because he has inspired them to believe that he has the potential to become a powerful future Lord or somesuch; he would generally avoid physical labor, Strength being his dump stat. During the dungeon crawls and such where he can't play party face, he would specialize in using Vicious Mockery and his various class abilities and spells for party support. He would wear a component pouch, never deign to carry a weapon on his person (his Retainers might have a handaxe for wood chopping, however he may well never even make a single attack roll, possibly not even a spell attack, as his at-will abilities in combat will largely boil down to Vicious Mockery and Master of Tactics Help Actions), and he would only wear highly maintained, overly ornate armor if he must wear armor at all, with fine clothes in the chest his Retainers carry around, and smarter than average traveler's clothes otherwise. Obviously he will take his personal grooming very seriously. I might even pick one of those flaws about if the odds are against him, he'll turn tail and run, or alternatively about being a bit prissy about gross things...
Yes, I am well aware that this concept (and some features of the classes below) would be quite heavily gimped if the enemy is immune to Charm (and to a slightly lesser extent, Fear), and he will obviously be completely dependent on his allies for any real damage output, but still the idea is in my mind and I really want to contemplate what I can do with this.
Now for build details:
Lore Bard 3 / Mastermind Rogue 3 / Archfey Chain Warlock 10 (Imp familiar, with fluff that his Patron is actually Asmodeus instead of a Fey, who provides him with different features than are common for Infernal Pacts to help him hide his true nature and better compliment his natural talents)
I'm unsure what to do with the last 4 levels; if I put them into Warlock, I get the Dark Delirium ability, but if I put at least 2 levels into Bard I get Font of Inspiration; otherwise it's a question of balance between the first two Mystic Arcanums + an Invocation vs Countercharm and a Magical Secret, Bardic vs Warlock magic, and how many ASIs I want to pursue, and I'm not sure what the best balance would be. I don't think I would consider taking more than maybe one level of Rogue for the ASI, and even that's a stretch.
I'm also unsure what I would want to do with my ASIs, aside from pumping Charisma and taking Magic Initiate Cleric (or Druid if I can't get an OK to refluff the Archfey abilities) if I don't use the Magical Secret for Guidance. Inspiring Leader will be his racial bonus feat. As for other feats, my thoughts are:
Alert is always nice for pretty much anyone.
Actor could help if I ever have to impersonate others.
Lucky is often a good choice I'm not as sure about it as I'm not making attack rolls myself and shouldn't be a major target most of the time.
Mobile could help with tactical retreats especially over difficult terrain but that's a bit conditional for me.
Ritual Caster (especially matching the Magic Initiate) can definitely be useful but part of me isn't sure I want to lug around a book unless I just trade my Pact from Chain to Tome and go Book of Ancient Secrets (which would also open up Aspect of the Moon for flavor - imagine him impressing his Retainers who then spread around rumors about how he truly never sleeps! lol).
War Caster is always nice for casters, but ideally I shouldn't use it if I do take it.
If I find myself needing more Expertise, I can also take Prodigy from Xanathar's too, albeit I doubt I will need it.
Beguiling Influence will not be necessary, and I won't be using Eldritch Blast or the Hex spell, so anything dependent on those are out. As for other Invocations that have not already been mentioned and I feel are worth commenting on:
Beast Speech, Gift of the Depths, and Whisperer of the Grave are just too situational. Cloak of Flies is just too gross to contemplate for an aspiring noble.
For defense, Armor of Shadows, Fiendish Vigor, and Gift of the Ever-Living Ones just don't seem like the best options to me given that I want to avoid giving the enemy the opportunity to hit me in the first place, while Ascendant Step has awesome potential to avoid taking hits from melee foes while also looking very grand (PRESENTATION! lol). Tomb of Levistus just gives me visions of Han Solo in carbonite for some reason... Trickster's Escape shouldn't see much use, either.
Bewitching Whispers grants what amounts to a chance to grant some opportunity attacks while potentially screwing with enemy formations but it doesn't feel very powerful to me especially compared to Dreadful Word which pierces Charm Immunity.
I would love Chains of Carceri but I won't be able to get it without either dropping Cutting Words / Master of Tactics or relying on an arguably RAW, arguably not RAI interpretation of Invocation level requirements that not all DMs will go for.
Devil's Sight might not see much use with him as I don't want to blind the party and I'm definitely not going to scout.
On the subject of scouting, Gaze of Two Minds or Voice of the Chain Master can be much more useful especially if there's no source of proper Telepathy in the party. While Visions of Distant Realms would do this at least as excellently as any other potential option, it has the same issue as Chains of Carceri.
On the subject of vision, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Runekeeper, Ghostly Gaze, and Witch Sight all have potential for use and/or fun but just don't seem appropriate here for some reason.
Mask of Many Faces could synergize well with the Actor feat, but of course I'll also have Disguise Kit proficiency which is not an illusion so depending on circumstances...
One With Shadows is a bit limited in application, too bad I can't get it's bigger brother Shroud of Shadow without the same issue as Chains of Carceri.
Sculptor of Flesh looks awesome. Just awesome.
Sign of Ill Omen looks pretty potent against BBEGs, Thief of Five Fates makes me wonder why it uses the number 5 in the name when at slot level 5 it's targeting 7 enemies but whatever it's still a nice, if not game breaking, multi-target debuff.
Any suggestions? Comments? Feedback? Am I severely overlooking or mis-estimating something (beyond the idea that the core concept is a bit ridiculous in and of itself)? I don't think any other classes have much more to offer, other than maybe Portent, but I'd really rather avoid taking yet another class, especially one that isn't Charisma based.
Oh, and there is a slim chance that this might wind up being used for Adventurer's League so AL-Legal limitations may apply, but that's not quite set in stone yet.
Yes, I am well aware that this concept (and some features of the classes below) would be quite heavily gimped if the enemy is immune to Charm (and to a slightly lesser extent, Fear), and he will obviously be completely dependent on his allies for any real damage output, but still the idea is in my mind and I really want to contemplate what I can do with this.
Now for build details:
Lore Bard 3 / Mastermind Rogue 3 / Archfey Chain Warlock 10 (Imp familiar, with fluff that his Patron is actually Asmodeus instead of a Fey, who provides him with different features than are common for Infernal Pacts to help him hide his true nature and better compliment his natural talents)
I'm unsure what to do with the last 4 levels; if I put them into Warlock, I get the Dark Delirium ability, but if I put at least 2 levels into Bard I get Font of Inspiration; otherwise it's a question of balance between the first two Mystic Arcanums + an Invocation vs Countercharm and a Magical Secret, Bardic vs Warlock magic, and how many ASIs I want to pursue, and I'm not sure what the best balance would be. I don't think I would consider taking more than maybe one level of Rogue for the ASI, and even that's a stretch.
I'm also unsure what I would want to do with my ASIs, aside from pumping Charisma and taking Magic Initiate Cleric (or Druid if I can't get an OK to refluff the Archfey abilities) if I don't use the Magical Secret for Guidance. Inspiring Leader will be his racial bonus feat. As for other feats, my thoughts are:
Alert is always nice for pretty much anyone.
Actor could help if I ever have to impersonate others.
Lucky is often a good choice I'm not as sure about it as I'm not making attack rolls myself and shouldn't be a major target most of the time.
Mobile could help with tactical retreats especially over difficult terrain but that's a bit conditional for me.
Ritual Caster (especially matching the Magic Initiate) can definitely be useful but part of me isn't sure I want to lug around a book unless I just trade my Pact from Chain to Tome and go Book of Ancient Secrets (which would also open up Aspect of the Moon for flavor - imagine him impressing his Retainers who then spread around rumors about how he truly never sleeps! lol).
War Caster is always nice for casters, but ideally I shouldn't use it if I do take it.
If I find myself needing more Expertise, I can also take Prodigy from Xanathar's too, albeit I doubt I will need it.
Beguiling Influence will not be necessary, and I won't be using Eldritch Blast or the Hex spell, so anything dependent on those are out. As for other Invocations that have not already been mentioned and I feel are worth commenting on:
Beast Speech, Gift of the Depths, and Whisperer of the Grave are just too situational. Cloak of Flies is just too gross to contemplate for an aspiring noble.
For defense, Armor of Shadows, Fiendish Vigor, and Gift of the Ever-Living Ones just don't seem like the best options to me given that I want to avoid giving the enemy the opportunity to hit me in the first place, while Ascendant Step has awesome potential to avoid taking hits from melee foes while also looking very grand (PRESENTATION! lol). Tomb of Levistus just gives me visions of Han Solo in carbonite for some reason... Trickster's Escape shouldn't see much use, either.
Bewitching Whispers grants what amounts to a chance to grant some opportunity attacks while potentially screwing with enemy formations but it doesn't feel very powerful to me especially compared to Dreadful Word which pierces Charm Immunity.
I would love Chains of Carceri but I won't be able to get it without either dropping Cutting Words / Master of Tactics or relying on an arguably RAW, arguably not RAI interpretation of Invocation level requirements that not all DMs will go for.
Devil's Sight might not see much use with him as I don't want to blind the party and I'm definitely not going to scout.
On the subject of scouting, Gaze of Two Minds or Voice of the Chain Master can be much more useful especially if there's no source of proper Telepathy in the party. While Visions of Distant Realms would do this at least as excellently as any other potential option, it has the same issue as Chains of Carceri.
On the subject of vision, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Runekeeper, Ghostly Gaze, and Witch Sight all have potential for use and/or fun but just don't seem appropriate here for some reason.
Mask of Many Faces could synergize well with the Actor feat, but of course I'll also have Disguise Kit proficiency which is not an illusion so depending on circumstances...
One With Shadows is a bit limited in application, too bad I can't get it's bigger brother Shroud of Shadow without the same issue as Chains of Carceri.
Sculptor of Flesh looks awesome. Just awesome.
Sign of Ill Omen looks pretty potent against BBEGs, Thief of Five Fates makes me wonder why it uses the number 5 in the name when at slot level 5 it's targeting 7 enemies but whatever it's still a nice, if not game breaking, multi-target debuff.
Any suggestions? Comments? Feedback? Am I severely overlooking or mis-estimating something (beyond the idea that the core concept is a bit ridiculous in and of itself)? I don't think any other classes have much more to offer, other than maybe Portent, but I'd really rather avoid taking yet another class, especially one that isn't Charisma based.
Oh, and there is a slim chance that this might wind up being used for Adventurer's League so AL-Legal limitations may apply, but that's not quite set in stone yet.