View Full Version : 3.75: steal D&D 4.0 ideas, implement in 3.5

2007-09-06, 12:42 PM
This is just for fun -- but we have a bunch of 4.0 design concepts. What if we jury rigged them into 3.5?

First: Wizards don't use crossbows. Wizards cast spells.
Second: Power curves are more similar between classes.
Third: Leaders are Healers and restore/manage resources.
Forth: You are never "punished" for doing your job.

Along the way, we should reduce our class totals:
Fold the Ranger and Scout together.
Fold the Warblade, Fighter and Knight together.
Fold the Paladin, Crusader and Knight together.
Fold the Swordsage and Monk together.
Fold the Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard together.
Fold the Cleric and Paladin together.
Fold the Bard and Archivist together.
Fold the Bard, Rogue and Scout together.
Fold the Barbarian together with other "savage" classes.

Keep some spells-per-day, but I'd limit players to L 6 spells by L 20, and give them per-encounter and per-action abilities.

Healing by "leaders" should not take up other actions. Clerics should be able to cast a cure spell without giving up their offensive actions.

Similar rules should apply elsewhere: tanks shouldn't give up their ability to do damage when they protect someone else, etc.

Am I crazy?

2007-09-06, 01:06 PM
Crazy, brilliant...it's a question of perspective :smallwink:. I, for one, don't particularly feel like doing that work, and I'm a patient man.

2007-09-06, 01:12 PM
Classes shouldn't be folded multiple times. Either fold Knight into Warblade/Fighter, or Crusader/Paladin, but not both.

2007-09-06, 01:20 PM
This would be a very difficult project to maintain, as you would need to constantly add/modify things as WotC allows tidbits of info to escape from their clutches.

Good luck if you attempt it though.

Devouring Rage
2007-09-06, 02:48 PM
I was thinking of doing something like this before 4E was announced. Although I wanted to cut levels down to 10 so it'd be easier to create a linear balance. I think I ended up with 15 classes though. I ended up with 5 classes for three archetypes (Warrior, Skill Monkey, Caster). I probably should've just broke it down into like three and offered more options. Dropped that after I got bored.

Have fun. I might drop by every once in a while to offer some assistance/opinions.

2007-09-09, 02:01 AM
I might consider something like this after I actually see 4E. If they have crappy execution of awesome ideas, or I have some other serious motive to not switch, I might contribute to a project like this. However, I'm not going to work on it when it's possible WotC will do it right without any effort from me. 'Til then, I suggest waiting.

2007-09-09, 04:55 AM
The thing about 4Eis that the classes resemble my homebrew of 3.5. They've been reading my brain with their psychic rays, man.

Truthfully, I've been thinking of doing something like this right before the announcement. I had 4 combat roles (controller, patron, striker, protector) and 3 power sources (martial, mental, physical, magical) and placed 10 of the classes in the roles. Then I some classes eat others, took away 1 spell per level from each caster, gave each class free at will, /day, and /encounter feature, and remove many of the restriction and limits on skill use.

Then I had lvl 5 fighters whose attack had an optional free trip attempt with a +4 bonus, a free hit if they succeed which halved speed on hit. And Lvl 10 wizards who can shoot 4 Rays of frost /will as a standard or 2 RoF as a swift.

Then I set the papers in fire to light a blowtorch after 4E was announced. :belkar:

2007-09-17, 05:17 PM

3 kinds of Spells:
Cantrips, Incantations and Rituals

Cantrips are per-action spells. You can do this spell as many times as you have actions.

Incantations are per-encounter limited spells.

Rituals are per-day spells.


The Spellcaster uses items to focus spells. Each item is attuned to a limited number of spells, and the Spellcaster can keep only a limited number of spells attuned at one time.

The Spellcaster can cast spells without their items, but the items increase the power of spells attuned to the item. They can also be used to channel unattuned spells, but are less effective at it.

Attunable items include Wands, Staves, Orbs and Tomes.


Cantrips, Incantations and Rituals can all be of various spell levels (Cantrip no longer refers to level zero spells). Cantrips tend to be basic attack spells: magic missile, a ray of flame, and the like. Incantations tend to be control/mass attack spells: mass save or suck, single-target suck, area damage, etc. Rituals are the most powerful: save or lose, mass no-save suck, etc.

L1 Cantrip: Magic Missle
L1 Incantation: Grease*
L1 Ritual: Sleep

* Without the flat-footedness, but a wider area

L3 Cantrip: Flame Arrow
L3 Incantation: Hold Person*
L3 Ritual: Slow

* With the target getting an extra will save whenever they are directly endangered.

Details might have to be tweaked, but I hope you get the idea.

2007-09-18, 04:17 AM
Fold the Swordsage and Monk together.

What and taint the Swordsage....