The Fighter Revised

[GalacticAxekick]

As part of a 5e homebrew project, I've rewritten the Fighter class (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJ5IloNre). Let me know if there's anything unclear, unfun or unbalanced!

The basic goals are:
To give Fighters options besides "Attack:" AoE, area control, tanking, buffing, and nerfing
To make sure the Fighter never runs out of options by avoiding resources
To make features that reflect martial training accessible within the class, rather than as feats

[Amnoriath]

As part of a 5e homebrew project, I've rewritten the Fighter class (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BJ5IloNre). Let me know if there's anything unclear, unfun or unbalanced!

The basic goals are:
To give Fighters options besides "Attack:" AoE, area control, tanking, buffing, and nerfing
To make sure the Fighter never runs out of options by avoiding resources
To make features that reflect martial training accessible within the class, rather than as feats

1. Right of the bat giving the 3 extra attacks, action surge, and the sneak attack die progression makes this an absolute monster in damage. Not only are you combing the two classes in how they deal damage you make this Fighter's come up more often. Though for a class feature it appears only a few styles benefit from it.
2. The subclass mechanic is interesting but the crossover could be really dangerous, for example a longsword that power attacks its Duelist's Mark(20d6+4 attacks, not including bonus action). Additionally how do these interact with armor and the like?
3. You are doing what you want and you give the options to be able to use all the actions given to you(almost, only bonus action is from the speedshooter) but I think you underestimated the lack of normal fighting styles and second wind. Numbers wise you are more frail than the original while you can do more I think certain subclasses expect that you have higher numbers in those categories than you actually would.
4. I feel like there isn't much room for other subclasses as they are about certain weapon fighting.
5. Ultimately this feels like it is either about combining burst power or giving yourself extra ways to be annoying at your expense and not much in between.

[Secret Wizard]

I really hate the ABC+ABC Fighting Style structure. A feature given at 10th level should not feel the same as a feature given at 1st level, even if it's compounding.

I prefer the Variant Fighter rebuild.

[LudicSavant]

I prefer the Variant Fighter rebuild.

Source? Post length.

[GalacticAxekick]

1. Right of the bat giving the 3 extra attacks, action surge, and the sneak attack die progression makes this an absolute monster in damage. Not only are you combing the two classes in how they deal damage you make this Fighter's come up more often. Though for a class feature it appears only a few styles benefit from itThe extra attacks are tied to the Attack action, while the sneak attack die progression is always tied to a separate action (Power Attack, Duelist's Mark or Sniper's Mark). Because you're always using one or the other, I'm not concerned about them stacking to create "an absolute monster in damage".

But I agree that the fighter scores sneak-like damage more easily than the Rogue. How might I limit that?


2. The subclass mechanic is interesting but the crossover could be really dangerous, for example a longsword that power attacks its Duelist's Mark(20d6+4 attacks, not including bonus action).The crossover you mention is absolutely there! A fighter using most weapons can choose 2 between at least 3 styles in order to combine features of their choice (e.g. Brute + Dueling with a longsword vs Dueling + Sanctuary with a longsword) But how is the crossover dangerous?

The longsword can deal 20d6+1d10+5 (80.5) damage in one attack by using one action for Duelist's Mark and another for Power Attack. But comparatively, eight longsword attacks made using two attack actions would deal 8d10+40 (84) damage.


Additionally how do these interact with armor and the like?None of these features interact with armour.

I originally wanted to devote two styles to armour. The lightly armoured style would work as long as you aren't wearing heavy armour (being unarmoured or wearing medium armour would suffice), and would offer increased mobility, improved Dexterity saves, etc. The heavily armoured style would work as long as you're wearing heavy or medium armour, and would offer damage reductions. A fighter in medium armour could select both styles to become both agile and durable, at the cost of not specializing with any particular weapon. The styles were scrapped because they were very passive and uninteresting, in my opinion.


3. You are doing what you want and you give the options to be able to use all the actions given to you(almost, only bonus action is from the speedshooter) but I think you underestimated the lack of normal fighting styles and second wind. Numbers wise you are more frail than the original while you can do more I think certain subclasses expect that you have higher numbers in those categories than you actually would.Understood. Do you think I should offer numerical bonuses to AC, to attack rolls, or to damage rolls through certain subclasses or features? And do you think I should bring back Second Wind?


4. I feel like there isn't much room for other subclasses as they are about certain weapon fighting.I still intend to write at least one subclass for unarmed striking, as well as at least one subclass for grappling. Ideally, I'd like several styles so that unarmed fighters can mix and match like every else. But besides that, I agree: there isn't much room for other subclasses. Is this a problem?


5. Ultimately this feels like it is either about combining burst power or giving yourself extra ways to be annoying at your expense and not much in between.I think that's a bit simplistic. The "extra ways to be annoying at your expense" include close range and long range area control, AoE, bodyguarding and drawing aggro.

But if you feel otherwise, how could I accommodate those "in-between" playstyles?

[GalacticAxekick]

Source? A quick search leads me to believe this (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz74Lu7ft9sycGpYbi02UHk5RmM/view) is the variant in question. At a glance, I love some of its design decisions, such as offering manoeuvre selection with a system similar to spell selection (which gives the player lots of room to define themselves), but also making manoeuvres cost no spell-slot-like resources (which means the player never runs out of options).

[Amnoriath]

The extra attacks are tied to the Attack action, while the sneak attack die progression is always tied to a separate action (Power Attack, Duelist's Mark or Sniper's Mark). Because you're always using one or the other, I'm not concerned about them stacking to create "an absolute monster in damage".

But I agree that the fighter scores sneak-like damage more easily than the Rogue. How might I limit that?

The crossover you mention is absolutely there! A fighter using most weapons can choose 2 between at least 3 styles in order to combine features of their choice (e.g. Brute + Dueling with a longsword vs Dueling + Sanctuary with a longsword) But how is the crossover dangerous?

The longsword can deal 20d6+1d10+5 (80.5) damage in one attack by using one action for Duelist's Mark and another for Power Attack. But comparatively, eight longsword attacks made using two attack actions would deal 8d10+40 (84) damage.

None of these features interact with armour.

I originally wanted to devote two styles to armour. The lightly armoured style would work as long as you aren't wearing heavy armour (being unarmoured or wearing medium armour would suffice), and would offer increased mobility, improved Dexterity saves, etc. The heavily armoured style would work as long as you're wearing heavy or medium armour, and would offer damage reductions. A fighter in medium armour could select both styles to become both agile and durable, at the cost of not specializing with any particular weapon. The styles were scrapped because they were very passive and uninteresting, in my opinion.

Understood. Do you think I should offer numerical bonuses to AC, to attack rolls, or to damage rolls through certain subclasses or features? And do you think I should bring back Second Wind?

I still intend to write at least one subclass for unarmed striking, as well as at least one subclass for grappling. Ideally, I'd like several styles so that unarmed fighters can mix and match like every else. But besides that, I agree: there isn't much room for other subclasses. Is this a problem?

I think that's a bit simplistic. The "extra ways to be annoying at your expense" include close range and long range area control, AoE, bodyguarding and drawing aggro.

But if you feel otherwise, how could I accommodate those "in-between" playstyles?

1. Actually I thought at first Power Attack wasn't an action itself as it doesn't allow to take reactions. I thought the price was you don't take reactions as such little synergy with the others special actions. This makes it a really bad option because it will deal less damage in the long run as is and the style doesn't offer other options.
2. I understand that but it does underscore that the fact is there is little reason not to have heavy armor and can undercut certain ideas.
3. Second Wind definitely, I do since others still will but we need to solve the issues with the class as whole.
4. It does as while mechanically more interesting it sets in stone it is a weapon training that must incoporate x, y, z.
5. I am summarizing and I am not saying it is bad but you are putting yourself at risk each time and it could be canceled especially if you attacked on your turn.

[GalacticAxekick]

1. Actually I thought at first Power Attack wasn't an action itself as it doesn't allow to take reactions. I thought the price was you don't take reactions as such little synergy with the others special actions. This makes it a really bad option because it will deal less damage in the long run as is and the style doesn't offer other options.Noted! Here are a few fixes I've just come up with:
I could remove the clause against reactions to help Power Attack interact with other styles.
I could increase the damage or accuracy of the Power Attack to help it keep up with Extra Attack. For example: "When you move at least 20 feet straight towards a creature before hitting it with a two-handed or versatile melee weapon attack, you have advantage on that attack roll."
I could add other features that support Power Attack. For example, if I added the aforementioned advantage feature, I might add the following too: "When you have advantage on an attack roll with a two-handed or versatile melee weapon and the lower of the two dice would also hit, you can push your target up to 10 feet or knock them prone."

2. I understand that but it does underscore that the fact is there is little reason not to have heavy armor and can undercut certain ideas. Any fighter who relies on ranged weapons or Dexterity skills is going to need high Dexterity and rely on light armour, whether the original class or my variant is being used. That has been and still is the only reason for a character to prefer light over heavy armour.

Could you elaborate on what ideas I've undercut? I'd love to accommodate them!


3. Second Wind definitely, I do since others still will but we need to solve the issues with the class as whole. Noted, thanks! Second Wind has been added back to the class.


4. It does as while mechanically more interesting it sets in stone it is a weapon training that must incoporate x, y, z.I'm aware that each subclass is a weapon training that only interacts with X, Y or Z. I don't understand why this is a problem.


5. I am summarizing and I am not saying it is bad but you are putting yourself at risk each time and it could be canceled especially if you attacked on your turn.Each time what? What could be canceled?

[Amnoriath]

At this point modifications is the only to go. Adding new series of abilities to be more inclusive of what others are saying will only complicate the whole thing.
1. Add Second wind back.
2. The scaling dice needs to be scaled back to 1/2 at least so it has more or better action economy.
3. Either everything needs to be on the first fighting style level needs to be an action itself or a rider for other actions. Bodyguard+Sanctuary currently synergize off eachother with the Disengage action.
4. Needs more bonus action options especially if everything is going to be based on other actions outside of Attack. I would suggest the class itself has them.
5. Since you can have big single attacks a high level reliable reroll feature is an order.
6. An increase like a ring of protection as long as you are wearing armor or have a shield while not incapacitated would help. Even at the expense of an ASI as you replace a lot with what you have.
7. Your 20th level has to be better. Even a Action Surge recharge when you have none would be great.

[Gorum]

Before I begin: What is wrong with the Battle Master?
Starting level 3, every short rest, you gain maneuvers that allows allies to attack, disarm, distract, avoid AoO, push, parry, intimidate, riposte, give allies temps HP, trip and goad. And the class feature is flexible enough that you could simply create options that are EVEN LESS based on the attack option, as shown by "Rally".

At least, better than Brute Style, Dueling Style (which LITERALLY stole the Battle Master "Know your enemy" ability), sharpshooting style and speedshooting style.


Still...

I Start with Speedshooting style because it is the best of the bunch and my criticism of it makes me sounds far more encouraging.

Speedshooting Style
Volley Fire: I like that, but rolling 4 dice and taking the highest is underpowered. Instead of a reroll, I would give 1d6 extra damage which means that the larger area you cover, the less damage your arrows deal. I would word it like that: "Volley deals extra damage equal to half the Style Damage Dice to all targets. Round the number of extra dice down. Additionally, those extra dice can be reduced by one to increase the radius of volley by another 10 feet. This effect can be taken as many times as the extra damage from volley would allow."

Cloud of missiles:
THIS IS A GREAT IDEA! Set the DC as 8+Proficiency Bonus+Dex.

Storm's Eye:
ANOTHER GREAT IDEA I love it. I am unsure about making it the same level as Cloud of Missiles tho.

Think fast: This is neat.



Brute Style
Power Attack: Is the extra d6 applicable as soon as you have a versatile weapon, or does it need to be used with your two hands? Is it supposed to be simply better than Sneak Attack by being limited to the weapon you carry vs. situational circumstances? Can a versatile weapon be used to both power attack and parry (Dueling Style)? Or can I use a versatile weapon and power attack with it even though I carry a shield?

Power Attack: Power Attack is written in a way that suggest you cannot benefit from extra attacks when you use it. Is it supposed to be a better sneak attack until you get a second attack, when benefit is nullified by the extra attack?

Cleave: How do you determine the "next target"? Does it have to be adjacent to the first like in 3.X?



Dueling Style
Dueling Style: If it is copied from a swashbuckler entry (I presume a variant of rogue), it shows.
Parry: Can you use it when yourself are being hit?
Main Gauche: "As a bonus action, you can take a reaction"... wait what?
Duelist's mark: An action to mark, 2d6 damage and it is spent. If concentration is not broken beforehand. Why make it this wasteful? On the other hand, if I have a versatile weapon, can I mark a foe and both Power Attack it and spend my mark for +16d6 damage?



Guardian Style
Shield Bearing: How long does the disengage benefits you give friendly creatures last? And for that matter, Dodge also? (I ask because Disengage ends with the turn while Dodge last for the whole turn)
Escort: If two Guardian fighters are within reach of each other, can they both double move using the other's movement and their own reaction? (In my opinion, it should only take your next move's action, but that's me). Also, if the friendly creature moves 45 feet per round and I move 30, what happens?
Bastion: Okay, this class ability is awesome BUT granting total cover AFTER an attack roll is made is broken. Reread what Total Cover actually grants.. I would either replace it with 3/4 cover or remove the ability to choose whether to grant it after the fact... and possibly both. After all, it could be used to goad and nullify attacks.



Sanctuary Style
Brace: It is a mess. Disengage only last until the end of the current turn, which means it is useless against creatures with an higher initiative than you do. Also, the last sentence is meaningless. I can only take one what per turn? Finally, extra attacks doesn't thematically theme with Brace. Finally, one could use the reactions to do something OTHER than attack.

Threatening Stance
As an action, you can ready yourself against approaching foes. When you do, until your next turn, when an enemy enters your reach, it triggers an attack of opportunity. In addition, a character using this feature gains an extra reaction he can only use on attack of opportunity if he is a Fighter level 3. He gains additional extra reactions if he is at least level 5, 11 and 17.

or

Brace
As an action, you can ready yourself against approaching foes. When you do, until your next turn, when an enemy enters your reach, it triggers an attack of opportunity. In addition, if the Fighter hits with an Attack of Opportunity triggered that way, he deals extra damage as per the extra damage chart. That extra damage is increased by 2d6 if the creature hit is larger than the fighter or mounted.

Quick draw: Obvious (and flawed) copy-pasta is obvious.

Immovable object: That feature is really nice, but I would reword it (since the start of your last turn would be much better than "most recent"). And allow the Fighter to move exactly 5 feet.


Sharpshooting Style
Sharpshot: I like how the Brute "Charge" and "Cleave" ability stacks with the feats "Charger", "Great Weapon Master" and "Savage Attacker" . I expected something similar here. I am disappoint. So do I take the feat and render this ability 100% useless, or do I forgo what could be the best increase in damage I could hope for a sniper-type character?

Snapshot: Define "point" better.

Trick Shot: Vastly inferior to the Battle Master.


Sharpshot: Spend a Bonus Action. Your next non-volley ranged attack deals extra damage as per the Style Damage progression.
Snapshot: Rename "Overwatch", affects any target in a 90 degrees angle, triggered by a creature that enters the area, start moving in the area, or lose cover as part of moving in the area (making Escort better against you)
Trick shot: Spend a Bonus Action and choose one of the following effect:

Your next non-volley ranged attack treats Total Cover as Half Cover, and no effect may reduce that Half Cover.
If your next non-volley ranged attack made this turn hits a target, that target's speed is reduced to 0 until the end of your next turn.
If your next non-volley ranged attack made this turn hits a target, that target is disarmed and its weapon lands 10 feet behind it.
If your next non-volley ranged attack made this turn hits a target, that target is knocked prone.



This way, picking the associated feat makes sense, you use your Fighter bonus damage progression, that progression comes at a cost, you favor single attacks, you get rid of Sniper's Mark which sucks, and you get attacks that have effects that don't simply suck. You trade damage for control.

Eagle Eyes: Make this ability the level 3 / 15 one, and find a better one for level 7. One that won't convince me to simply switch to Rogue at level 7 after 2 feats, 1 Action Surge and Second Wind. Because that's what I'd do 100% of the time.

[GalacticAxekick]

At this point modifications is the only to go. [...]
I've added Second Wind back. Thanks!
I've accelerated the die scaling by one level and let it cap at 11d6. Thanks!
The synergy between Shield Bearing and Brace is intended.
What features could be made more fun or more balanced by bonus actions?
I've added an attack reroll function to Indomitable. Thanks!
Does the Fighter need +1 AC and +1 to saves? Original Fighters who took any style except Protection had neither but got by fine.
I've added an Action Surge recharge to 20th level. Thanks!

[GalacticAxekick]

Before I begin: What is wrong with the Battle Master?
Let's break this down.


Starting level 3, every short rest, you gain maneuvers that allows allies to attack, disarm, distract, avoid AoO, push, parry, intimidate, riposte, give allies temps HP, trip and goad. And the class feature is flexible enough that you could simply create options that are EVEN LESS based on the attack option, as shown by "Rally".One of my priorities was to make sure the Fighter never runs out of options by avoiding resources. To remove the resource limits on the Battle Master manoeuvres, I first had to nerf them. And as I nerfed them, I ran into three problems:
Some manoeuvres strictly tilt the odds in your favour and cannot be made at-will (Evasive Footwork, Feinting Attack, Goading Attack, Lunging Attack, Precision Attack)
Some manoeuvres allow you to make two attacks at once, and become normal attacks if nerfed (Disarming Attack, Pushing Attack, Sweeping Attack, Trip Attack)
Some manoeuvres that represent social features I've given to my homebrew Bard (Commander's Strike, Distracting Strike, Manoeuvring Attack, Rally)
The remaining manoeuvres do novel, martial things (Parry, Riposte) which I gave to the Duelist subclass.


At least, better than Brute Style, Dueling Style (which LITERALLY stole the Battle Master "Know your enemy" ability), sharpshooting style and speedshooting style.Of course I stole Know Your Enemy. It's a fantastic feature I'd never remove from the game, even if I'd remove superiority dice. You know what they say of babies and bathwater.


Speedshooting Style
Volley Fire: I like that, but rolling 4 dice and taking the highest is underpowered. [...] I think my wording was unclear. You don't roll four dice and take the highest. You roll four dice and add them together to determine damage.


Cloud of missiles: Set the DC as 8+Proficiency Bonus+Dex. Already done. The Fighting Style feature on page one reads: "Some style features allow targets to make saving throws. The DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier as appropriate for the weapon used."


Storm's Eye:I love it. I am unsure about making it the same level as Cloud of Missiles tho.Would you push it to 7th/18th?


Brute Style
Power Attack: Is the extra d6 applicable as soon as you have a versatile weapon, or does it need to be used with your two hands? [...] Can I use a versatile weapon and power attack with it even though I carry a shield?Simply using a versatile weapon is sufficient, whether it's being used in one or two hands. If you're holding it in one hand, you can carry a shield in the other, no problem.


Can a versatile weapon be used to both power attack and parry (Dueling Style)?The weapon is capable of both, but not in a single round. Power Attack prevents you from taking reactions until the start of your next turn, and Parry is a reaction.


Power Attack: Power Attack is written in a way that suggest you cannot benefit from extra attacks when you use it.You cannot benefit from Extra Attacks when you use it, correct.


Is it supposed to be a better sneak attack until you get a second attack, when benefit is nullified by the extra attack?No, that's an element of the design that I'm struggling with. I'd like the Power Attack deal damage on par with (if not greater than) Extra Attack, but I don't like that it's a more powerful and more reliable Sneak Attack. If you could suggest a penalty, I'd be happy to hear it.


Cleave: How do you determine the "next target"? Does it have to be adjacent to the first like in 3.X?Definitely not adjacent (since 5e uses a lot of theatre of mind and that would get confusing fast). Rather, I'd go through targets clockwise or counter-clockwise.


Dueling Style
Dueling Style: If it is copied from a swashbuckler entry (I presume a variant of rogue), it shows.It wasn't, but that's very much the thematics I'm going for, so thank you!


Parry: Can you use it when yourself are being hit?Yes, I should clarify.


Main Gauche: "As a bonus action, you can take a reaction"... wait what?If a feature would normally cost your reaction (such as an opportunity attack or parry), you can instead use your bonus action to perform that feature. I'll try to rewrite and clarify the feature.


Duelist's mark: An action to mark, 2d6 damage and it is spent. If concentration is not broken beforehand. Why make it this wasteful?The intention is for the Duelist to use opportunity attacks to control enemy aggro: to keep them from running away and to punish their attacks. This doesn't work if the opportunity attacks don't scale. Duelist's Mark allows them to scale. I can remove the Concentration requirement, though I'm hesitant to increase the damage.


On the other hand, if I have a versatile weapon, can I mark a foe and both Power Attack it and spend my mark for +16d6 damage?You can combine Power Attack and Duelist's Mark, absolutely.


Guardian Style
Shield Bearing: How long does the disengage benefits you give friendly creatures last? And for that matter, Dodge also? (I ask because Disengage ends with the turn while Dodge last for the whole turn)Excellent question. I'll clarify that they last until the start of your next turn.


Escort: If two Guardian fighters are within reach of each other, can they both double move using the other's movement and their own reaction? (In my opinion, it should only take your next move's action, but that's me).I think you mean "it should take your next turn's movement". That's a good idea, since it limits shenanigans.


Also, if the friendly creature moves 45 feet per round and I move 30, what happens?You're getting left behind.


Bastion: I would either replace it with 3/4 cover or remove the ability to choose whether to grant it after the fact... and possibly both. After all, it could be used to goad and nullify attacks.That's super reasonable! My intention was to let the player choose "I'm going to grant my ally total cover. I'm not going to grant total cover to my enemy". I never considered the choice to grant or not grant cover being abused to goad and nullify attacks.


Sanctuary Style
Brace: It is a mess. Disengage only last until the end of the current turn, which means it is useless against creatures with an higher initiative than you do. I'll clarify "until the start of your next turn, you can use your reaction to make an opportunity attack when a creature you can see enters your reach."


Also, the last sentence is meaningless. I can only take one what per turn?Reaction. Of the many reactions the previous sentence gave you. Someone who moves in and out of your reach isn't getting two or three opportunity attacks.


Finally, extra attacks doesn't thematically theme with Brace.Should I rename the feature "Ready" or "En Garde" or "Intercept"? The idea is that you're choosing to fight defensively, and that as you level up you become better at this at the same pace as you get better at fighting aggressively.


Finally, one could use the reactions to do something OTHER than attack. As intended.


Quick draw: Obvious (and flawed) copy-pasta is obvious. I honestly don't know what you're talking about.


Immovable object: That feature is really nice, but I would reword it (since the start of your last turn would be much better than "most recent"). And allow the Fighter to move exactly 5 feet.Why allow the Fighter to move?


Sharpshooting Style
Sharpshot: I like how the Brute "Charge" and "Cleave" ability stacks with the feats "Charger", "Great Weapon Master" and "Savage Attacker" . I expected something similar here. I am disappoint. So do I take the feat and render this ability 100% useless, or do I forgo what could be the best increase in damage I could hope for a sniper-type character?Fair! Should I grant the Sharpshooter the flat +2 to ranged attack rolls that the original ranged fighting style had?


Snapshot: Define "point" better.Any point in space you can see. A spot on the floor? A spot on the wall? A spot in the air? Go for it. If you pick one outside of your ranged weapon's range, you won't be able to shoot at it, but I'm not limiting it to "a point within your ranged weapon's range" because your range is relative to where you're standing and you're going to be moving about plenty.


Trick Shot: Vastly inferior to the Battle Master.Of course it is. It's free.


Sharpshot: Spend a Bonus Action. Your next non-volley ranged attack deals extra damage as per the Style Damage progression.Using your action to make a full set of attacks and your bonus action to score Sneak Attack damage is beyond broken.


Snapshot: Rename "Overwatch", affects any target in a 90 degrees angle, triggered by a creature that enters the area, start moving in the area, or lose cover as part of moving in the area (making Escort better against you)
I love it.


Your next non-volley ranged attack treats Total Cover as Half Cover, and no effect may reduce that Half Cover.Being able to ignore total cover doesn't mean anything if you can't find the target.


If your next non-volley ranged attack made this turn hits a target, that target's speed is reduced to 0 until the end of your next turn.
If your next non-volley ranged attack made this turn hits a target, that target is disarmed and its weapon lands 10 feet behind it.
If your next non-volley ranged attack made this turn hits a target, that target is knocked prone.
I like these effects, but I'd prefer for Trick Shots to be compatible with extra attacks and Volleys so that fighters can stack their effects or use them for area control. It's necessary to balance this by making trick shots deal no damage.


Eagle Eyes: Make this ability the level 3 / 15 one, and find a better one for level 7. One that won't convince me to simply switch to Rogue at level 7 after 2 feats, 1 Action Surge and Second Wind. Because that's what I'd do 100% of the time.Noted.

[Gorum]

Let's break this down.

One of my priorities was to make sure the Fighter never runs out of options by avoiding resources. To remove the resource limits on the Battle Master manoeuvres, I first had to nerf them. And as I nerfed them, I ran into three problems:
Some manoeuvres strictly tilt the odds in your favour and cannot be made at-will (Evasive Footwork, Feinting Attack, Goading Attack, Lunging Attack, Precision Attack)
Some manoeuvres allow you to make two attacks at once, and become normal attacks if nerfed (Disarming Attack, Pushing Attack, Sweeping Attack, Trip Attack)
Some manoeuvres that represent social features I've given to my homebrew Bard (Commander's Strike, Distracting Strike, Manoeuvring Attack, Rally)
The remaining manoeuvres do novel, martial things (Parry, Riposte) which I gave to the Duelist subclass.

Of course I stole Know Your Enemy. It's a fantastic feature I'd never remove from the game, even if I'd remove superiority dice. You know what they say of babies and bathwater.

Now, I have relatively little experience with 5th edition, but couldn't you attain similar results by creating Battle master abilities without a cost?

I love your shieldbearer and speedshooter especially, but the 5th edition Battle Master had a definitive "flexibility" element that is, sadly, lost. And adopting a second style mid-progression just is not the same.


I think my wording was unclear. You don't roll four dice and take the highest. You roll four dice and add them together to determine damage.

Already done. The Fighting Style feature on page one reads: "Some style features allow targets to make saving throws. The DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier as appropriate for the weapon used."

Would you push it to 7th/18th?

Damage: Makes much more sense.
Save: AFAIK it was the only time a save was required except, maybe, trick shot. I have missed it.
Level: I won't feign knowledge here. I'd playtest it. And if you do, try the options of removing 1 square per 10 feet in the radius or 1 square per Extra Attacks. Might be interesting.


Simply using a versatile weapon is sufficient, whether it's being used in one or two hands. If you're holding it in one hand, you can carry a shield in the other, no problem.

The weapon is capable of both, but not in a single round. Power Attack prevents you from taking reactions until the start of your next turn, and Parry is a reaction.

You cannot benefit from Extra Attacks when you use it, correct.

No, that's an element of the design that I'm struggling with. I'd like the Power Attack deal damage on par with (if not greater than) Extra Attack, but I don't like that it's a more powerful and more reliable Sneak Attack. If you could suggest a penalty, I'd be happy to hear it.

Definitely not adjacent (since 5e uses a lot of theatre of mind and that would get confusing fast). Rather, I'd go through targets clockwise or counter-clockwise.

In a bad game I know, a Power Attack came with an accuracy penalty. I wouldn't make it scale as that bad game did not have bounded accuracy and this one does.

Power Attack might also work a bit like a similar Barbarian Ability, trading offense for defense. Lower AC would also goad a DM into attacking you.

Finally, I would be MUCH more comfortable with a much lower progression on this class' bonus damage, yet have it synergize with the Fighter's extra attacks. It would give a steadier output.


It wasn't, but that's very much the thematics I'm going for, so thank you!

Yes, I should clarify.

If a feature would normally cost your reaction (such as an opportunity attack or parry), you can instead use your bonus action to perform that feature. I'll try to rewrite and clarify the feature.

The intention is for the Duelist to use opportunity attacks to control enemy aggro: to keep them from running away and to punish their attacks. This doesn't work if the opportunity attacks don't scale. Duelist's Mark allows them to scale. I can remove the Concentration requirement, though I'm hesitant to increase the damage.

You can combine Power Attack and Duelist's Mark, absolutely.

Swashbuckler: The description used the word swashbuckler.

Mark: The problems are that there is no guarantee an opponent will trigger an AoO and that + Xd6 makes for damage spikes when the fighter's extra attacks suggest sustained damage.

Should I attack X times for potentially XdY+Z or gamble it all for either 1dY+Z+Ad6 or 0?

Instead of costing an action, have a prerequisite like using parry, which also limit the number of times it can be used per round.


Excellent question. I'll clarify that they last until the start of your next turn.

I think you mean "it should take your next turn's movement". That's a good idea, since it limits shenanigans.

You're getting left behind.

That's super reasonable! My intention was to let the player choose "I'm going to grant my ally total cover. I'm not going to grant total cover to my enemy". I never considered the choice to grant or not grant cover being abused to goad and nullify attacks.

This should exist as a class variant for the fighter if not as you brought it to life here.


I'll clarify "until the start of your next turn, you can use your reaction to make an opportunity attack when a creature you can see enters your reach."

Reaction. Of the many reactions the previous sentence gave you. Someone who moves in and out of your reach isn't getting two or three opportunity attacks.

Should I rename the feature "Ready" or "En Garde" or "Intercept"? The idea is that you're choosing to fight defensively, and that as you level up you become better at this at the same pace as you get better at fighting aggressively.

As intended.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

Why allow the Fighter to move?

Ability name: I really like En Guarde. But then, my native language is french, so I'm biased.

Quick draw: Quick draw states you can use a ranged weapon (i.e. a crossbow) as a melee weapon to make attacks of opportunity at a range of 15 ft.


Fair! Should I grant the Sharpshooter the flat +2 to ranged attack rolls that the original ranged fighting style had?

Any point in space you can see. A spot on the floor? A spot on the wall? A spot in the air? Go for it. If you pick one outside of your ranged weapon's range, you won't be able to shoot at it, but I'm not limiting it to "a point within your ranged weapon's range" because your range is relative to where you're standing and you're going to be moving about plenty.

Of course it is. It's free.

Using your action to make a full set of attacks and your bonus action to score Sneak Attack damage is beyond broken.

I love it.

Being able to ignore total cover doesn't mean anything if you can't find the target.

I like these effects, but I'd prefer for Trick Shots to be compatible with extra attacks and Volleys so that fighters can stack their effects or use them for area control. It's necessary to balance this by making trick shots deal no damage.

Noted.

Sharpshot: Why not? It is simple and fits with the theme of accuracy. And you can't synergize much better with the feat's active part!

Trick shot: Mildly annoying your opponent makes for a bad option. Granted, better than no option, but still a bad one. Maybe allow the first attack of an attack action (or any for that matter) to be traded for an effect would cripple this option a bit less?

Sneak attack: But stacking power attack and dueling mark isn't? I played a magical adept (warlock, took Hex) Battle Master / Assassin and the extra attack, while it would have given me more reliable damage output, just did not appeal to me. I was fine with superiority dice, maneuvers, a base +2 to hit and action surge (which gave a second chance @ sneak attack).

That said, it could have taken both the action and bonus action to make a "fighter sneak attack", thus negating extra attacks. But the +2 is simply a better idea.

Total Cover: Have the attacker guess a square, have a perception check vs. passive stealth, but if you do, deny the target's Dex to AC if positive or don't apply any cover. You can hardly dodge what attacks you from total cover!



All that being said, the mark ability could be used for the sharpshooter in a way that makes sense, is fun, is wirth using and encourage actual sniping: Keep concentration but remove the fact it is consumed by a successful use. Can only be used once per turn, refreshed at the start of your turn. And only 1 target so affected at a time.

This way, it cost an extra action per target, so it still have a noticeable cost. But it doesn't completely screw your action economy.

Likewise for the swashbuckler. It incentivizes using parry to help yourself first and foremost and the fact it is a gamble (although a safer one with Action Surge) would fit the theme quite well.

I'd go even farther: while you maintain the mark, each time the marked enemy uses an action to attack you, you gain a piece of information as per Know your Enemy. (But retain its normal use)

This would be thematically awesome.

[GalacticAxekick]

Now, I have relatively little experience with 5th edition, but couldn't you attain similar results by creating Battle master abilities without a cost?Adding superiority dice to damage, attack rolls and AC for free? Giving yourself advantage for free? Giving enemies disadvantage for free? Give allies movement and attacks for free?

The Battle Master's abilities need a cost to be balanced, because (with a handful of exceptions) all they do is improve or accelerate the things you can normally do. Take away what they add and they're just attacks and moves. Take away those underlying attacks and movements and they're just shoving, disarming, and standing about.


I love your shieldbearer and speedshooter especially, but the 5th edition Battle Master had a definitive "flexibility" element that is, sadly, lost. And adopting a second style mid-progression just is not the same.I agree. I'd like to experiment with a spell-like but resource-free manoeuvre selection system (the likes of which came up earlier in this thread!), but that involves a lot more moving parts, and so I'd like to start small with more rigid archetypes.


In a bad game I know, a Power Attack came with an accuracy penalty. I wouldn't make it scale as that bad game did not have bounded accuracy and this one does.Are we not allowed to say 3.X out loud? lol


Power Attack might also work a bit like a similar Barbarian Ability, trading offense for defense. Lower AC would also goad a DM into attacking you.I might go with this. Thanks!


Finally, I would be MUCH more comfortable with a much lower progression on this class' bonus damage, yet have it synergize with the Fighter's extra attacks. It would give a steadier output.The Fighter is already strong. None of these subclasses are meant to make it stronger. The purpose of the bonus damage is to make opportunity attacks—which a creature only has one of—stay dangerous at high levels. The Duelist and Sharpshooter styles rely on the bonus damage to keep their Riposte and Snapshot features meaningful, and would suffer if the bonus damage were lowered and spread over multiple attacks.

The Brute's Power Attack was the result of me looking at this bonus damage system and thinking "what else could I do with this?" I thought charging and cleaving through enemies might be neat, and I recognized that it would only work with a single high-damage attack.


This should exist as a class variant for the fighter if not as you brought it to life here.A class variant? As in, an entire class for the guardian? I can't imagine why.


Quick draw: Quick draw states you can use a ranged weapon (i.e. a crossbow) as a melee weapon to make attacks of opportunity at a range of 15 ft. Correct. Like description of the fighting style says, "Others brave melee with with ranged weapons, trading distance for the stopping power of a point blank shot."

The feature is meant to allow a fighter to stop incoming and fleeing enemies with ranged weapons. By taking the Dueling style, it also allows parrying and riposting with ranged weapons: shooting swords off their marks mid-swing, and shooting down those who miss attacks against you.


Sharpshot: Why not? It is simple and fits with the theme of accuracy. And you can't synergize much better with the feat's active part!Because it's mechanically overpowered and thematically bankrupt. Taking time to aim in exchange for high damage is more representative a sharpshooter, to me, than shooting four times and scoring high damage once, and it avoids the mess of dealing twice as much damage as other characters.


Trick shot: Mildly annoying your opponent makes for a bad option. Granted, better than no option, but still a bad one. Maybe allow the first attack of an attack action (or any for that matter) to be traded for an effect would cripple this option a bit less?Being restrained isn't mildly annoying. It's disadvantage on attacks, advantage on attacks against you, and a speed of 0 until you use your action or an attack to break free. It's everything you suggested put together, minus the range attack's damage.


[Using your action to make a full set of attacks and your bonus action to score Sneak Attack damage is beyond broken] but stacking power attack and dueling mark isn't?Correct. Stacking Power Attack and Duelist's mark takes two actions. It takes two rounds, or your Action Surge. Of course it deals double damage.

Getting double damage out of an action and a bonus action every round is a completely different affair.


All that being said, the mark ability could be used for the sharpshooter in a way that makes sense, is fun, is wirth using and encourage actual sniping: Keep concentration but remove the fact it is consumed by a successful use. Can only be used once per turn, refreshed at the start of your turn. And only 1 target so affected at a time.

This way, it cost an extra action per target, so it still have a noticeable cost. But it doesn't completely screw your action economy.

Likewise for the swashbuckler. It incentivizes using parry to help yourself first and foremost and the fact it is a gamble (although a safer one with Action Surge) would fit the theme quite well.
I love this, thematically, but combined with extra attacks it makes the sharpshooter twice as strong as the competition. I have to make sure the attack you use to deal the bonus damage is the only attack you make in a given round.

[Gorum]

Free stuff:
I meant without a cost in superiority dice. Of course it'll still have a cost. At the bare minimum it'll cost an action and a known maneuver.

E.G. Escort may cost both your next turn's move and your reaction. But no superiority die is spent nor rolled.

E.G.: En Guarde may cost this turn's attack action and move action, but allow you to make AoOs against foes entering your reach, and increase the number of reactions by the number of extra attacks the Battle Master has.


Making AoO relevant:
The problem with AoO is the same as 3.x's favored enemy. You are counting on something 95% situational. But at least with favored enemy, you could hit broad categories like "human" which also had lycanthropes. Here, you rely on a tactical blunder that seldom comes up.



Guardian as a class variant to the original fighter:

Maybe not as is, but don't tell me it doesn't seem on par with the Champion. Deflect, an area shielded, escort and bastion. All it would lack to take the place of the highest tier ability would be something like having an area effect like a breath weapon or a fireball only affect you, or be able to affect the target of your choice with a dex-based save you saved against, deflecting magic.

This NEEDS to exist. Take the compliment.


Quick Draw:

I can't access your document where I am right now, but what about Brace, Quickdraw, a bow, a polearm, a sword and the Sentinel feat @ lvl 3 (or is it 7?)

Shoot at distance. When enemy is close enough, Brace with crossbow. Jam @ 15. Drop crossbow and pick polearm and Brace. Jam at 10. Drop polearm, draw sword. Jam in melee. Enemy try to bypass you. Legit AoO. Still stuck in melee.

You okay with all that?



Sharpshooting:

The "why not" part was directed at the idea of a simple +2 to hit.


Extra attacks AND extra damage:

Scale it down and have it apply 1/round. No need for it to keep up with sneak attack. I mean, even if it progresses at 2/3 of sneak attack, it'll still deal, by itself, almost as much damage if only because more attack rolls can apply it. Let alone the extra base damage for having more attacks.

Otherwise, you have to screw the fighter's action economy. No one wants to have something like Extra Attack and never use it. Especially not in favor of AoO that might never come.

Given that choice, I would probably multiclass, Hex / Sneak attack and use all my attacks, thus remaining the master of my own destiny. And expertise / warlock invocations might be worth so much more than 1 more Brace attack!

[demonslayerelf]

Allo Galactic! Since you put this here, I assume you're prepared to hear the internet bitch about everything wrong with the class. If you aren't, then get ready.

Right from the beginning, I'm going to commend the idea behind this revision, but penalize the execution. The idea and it's purpose are completely agreeable, and while I think the overall problems with martials can't be solved through class revision, it is treating the major symptoms of it, which I can get behind. How you're going about it is bad, though, just from the standpoint of each class having a distinctive feel, both thematically and mechanically. This is really just a rogue with more combat and less skillmonkeying, as the main mechanic of the fighter is now getting in the right circumstance to apply a large pool of d6's for extra damage. I'm being vague to make it sound worse than it really is, of course, but the point is that I think there's a better way to do it, than copying Sneak Attack with different qualifications.

Then I'm going to look at the actual abilities; And I have to say, you've made Fighter an even more appealing dip class, especially for pallys and rogues. Before, 3 levels of fighter gave ACTION-FRACKING-SURGE, a fighting style, second wind, etc., then a (Usually) bad subclass feature, and maybe a little bit of spellcasting. Now, it gives an extra 3d6 on a single attack, ACTION-FRACKING-SURGE, second wind, and between 3 and 5(I think) special things to do. For instance, a Paladin/Assassin/Brute multiclass Power Attacks and Cleaves. (Smite+3d6+2d6+Weapon)x2+5, with the Assassin feature. Then action surge for fun.

Anyway, onto the class itself.
99% of this comes from... Subclassing? It's not really a subclass, it's a fighting style... And you get two of them. I mean, neat spin on the normal formula, but it's a little weird.

Brute:
Charge and Cleave are brutal alongside Power Attack, which I guess is the point, but then to follow it with Remarkable Athlete... It goes from incredibly powerful(Though I hesitate to say too powerful) to incredibly useless in terms of gained abilities. At high levels, there's essentially no cost to using PA. The -5 AC only matters when AC is relevant, which it just isn't at higher levels(That +15ish attack bonus will hit more or less anything that isn't specifically built to have massive AC). Brute's AC at high levels will be 21 at most(+3 Plate, dex isn't great for the Brute, two-handed weapons means no shield bonus), so the -5 does little. At lower levels, the Brute will have a 15ish, then 18ish after getting Plate. It matters a bit more then, but still not incredibly so. Even at it's lowest points, it's only an extra 25% chance to hit, when enemies will already have about a 50% chance.(+5 attack bonus against 15) Not a huge problem, but a possible one.

Duelist:
I'm not sure what Main Gauche is supposed to accomplish. The others are fine, Duelist's Mark is only slightly underwhelming, but Main Gauche doesn't have function, I think. No reactions will take place during your turn(Aside from the very rare cases, like triggering an opportunity attack or retaliation attack and parrying it), and you don't use a bonus action off of your turn. I don't get it. Is this a case of "Just in case", or am I missing something? These are then followed by Know Your Enemy, which is more useful than what the Brute gets, but it's still a downshot from what the first abilities were. It also got more powerful from it's Battlemaster appearance, unless I'm remembering wrong.

Guardian:
Nice, something that's supposed to be tanky... Deflect is nice, but not actually that useful unless you're getting swarmed, or you have a Barbarian or Duelist near you(Redirect it to them, give them free attacks with Retaliation and Riposte). Dive technically does nothing, as shooting over a creature isn't uncommon, especially when the enemy or target is flying or taller then you. It doesn't say you take the attack, it says you give cover(Though this doesn't say if it's half, full, or 3/4)... But that only works on a perfectly flat plane to begin with, and a taller target or taller attacker wouldn't even be effected. So... Dive, not the best. Escort is also nice... Until you realize this and Dive both use next turn's movement, thereby making you a sitting duck, or forcing you to Dash as an action, neither of which are very good. Guardian could use some buffing. Bastion is waaaaay better than the other 7th level features, and is probably about where it should be.

Sanctuary:
Tying the reactions and AoO's to Disengage is a weird choice, but sure. It makes me thing a 2 level Rogue dip is OP as hell, though, since it would let you Attack, then take 5 reactions with your bonus action. Quickdraw is cool, though not my favourite feature, since ranged weapons really don't need a buff, and don't really belong on the front lines, where Sanctuary Fighters would reign supreme. Vigilant(You spelled it wrong, btw) is actually really nice, though could stand to be more powerful, being that it's arguably the weakest so far. Initiative is certainly important... But not nearly as important as understanding your enemy, Evading damage, or even getting more athletic.

Sharpshooter:
Overall, the features here are weaker than others, but due to the inherent advantage possessed by ranged weapons, I don't see the problem. I can see some abuse problems with the attack action and Eagle Eyes(As it doesn't say opportunity attacks, it's just attacks), though. That should be cleaned up, as at the moment, you can declare whatever direction you want as your watch, then attack as many times as possible with advantage against the targets with any weapon(As it also doesn't say ranged attacks).

Speedshooter:
Honestly... This one is pretty good. It seems like it has too much control right off the bat, being that it can immediately hit everything you want it to and nothing that you don't within an area. Technically, it could even just be one creature, as you can declare a 5 ft. circle, then choose to ignore everything but the chosen creature. It would be pointless, but it's an option. Think Fast also isn't the best 7th level feature, but it's better than some. It might need a little tweaking, but this one is definitely nice.

[Gorum]

@ Demonslayerelf
Pretty impressive criticism. I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you typed here, especially the d6 mechanic making the fighter a thematically different rogue and the Guardian and Speedshooter being the most interesting ideas brought forth.

And the sanctuary/rogue exploit was a nice catch.

That said, I don't see how powerful charge and cleave are. I mean, all it does is avoid wasting excess damage when circumstances allows.

*It doesn't allow dealing damage to enemies whose AC wouldn't have been hit.

*You have to be the one to actually bring down a foe to trigger it and your damage output is not that great.

*Monsters usually have a decent amount of HP, meaning that it will, at best, trigger 1 out of 4 or 5 attacks, AFAIK.

So what am I missing?

[demonslayerelf]

So what am I missing?

If we're talking exclusively the normal and most likely scenario these would take effect; Nothing, it just saves the use of more attacks. If the attack is critical, however, that's absurdly high damage(As high if not higher than the Assassin's) which hits several things with very little waste. Not OP or anything, just a little nasty in some circumstances.

It also occurs to me that the style works weird with something like poison. @Galactic, answer my riddles many; If you're using Cleave, and you've coated the blade in poison(Or something else, like Magic Weapon or something), how does it work? It the physical applied before the poison? Simultaneously? Does poison damage carry, or does it impact everything you hit? If the attack would kill, do you use all of the poison damage before carrying the damage to the next guy? Etc. Etc.


Also, another exploit I noticed; You can use Duelist's Mark and Power Attack with a longsword(It just says a versatile weapon, so this works) at the same time, dealing upwards of 22d6 damage, then weapon damage, in one strike. This can also be critical for 44d6, average 154, then weapon damage. Fun.

[Gorum]

@Demonslayerelf
Oh. I get it. Since a monster with 2 hp left deals as much damage as one with full HP, you want it dead but killing it might waste a lot of damage.

In a bizarre way, since it allows you to bring down wounded monsters while maintaining your damage output, this is a defensive ability. It prevents attacks as well as wasted damage.

[Amnoriath]

I've added Second Wind back. Thanks!
I've accelerated the die scaling by one level and let it cap at 11d6. Thanks!
The synergy between Shield Bearing and Brace is intended.
What features could be made more fun or more balanced by bonus actions?
I've added an attack reroll function to Indomitable. Thanks!
Does the Fighter need +1 AC and +1 to saves? Original Fighters who took any style except Protection had neither but got by fine.
I've added an Action Surge recharge to 20th level. Thanks!

1. Good
2. Actually I think you should scale down the dice and make how I thought power attack worked. Allow me to explain if everyone else gets a rider on an action other than Attack, what if the Brute has the damage rider of 1-4 dice on the Attack action but can't make any actions for the rest of the round. It gets the power you want at a cost but the attack is less than sneak attack.
3. Well Cleave and Charge are redundant as whether they are in your line of assault or you can get to them it is the same. With this mind your Brute after moving 10 feet can shove a creature 10 feet in any direction or with your movement, call it Bull-rush. Your Main-Gauche also just doesn't work because those reactions only function outside your turn. As such it should as a bonus action which adds +2 AC until the beginning of your next turn. Stuff like that.
3. That works.
4. Technically, but Fighters ran off the model of high base # of attacks and supplemental defense coupled with more asi's to trade for feats. This has plenty of feat like abilities that you can afford just base numbers boosting with less asi's.
5. Good

[GalacticAxekick]

Allo Galactic! Since you put this here, I assume you're prepared to hear the internet bitch about everything wrong with the class. If you aren't, then get ready.There are few things I'd like more.

In the following breakdown I mostly make efforts to fix your concerns about 3-level dips by making 3rd level features more utility oriented and making 7th level features pack a bigger punch. I also try to touch on Gorum's concerns about opportunity attacks being unreliable by changing the mechanics of Duelist's Mark and Sniper's Mark.

I recognize that a few people dislike the die progression's overlap with the Rogue, but until I find a different mechanic to represent betting everything on a charge, on a shot, or on lunge, I'm leaving the die progression in place.


Brute:
Charge and Cleave are brutal alongside Power Attack, which I guess is the point, but then to follow it with Remarkable Athlete... It goes from incredibly powerful(Though I hesitate to say too powerful) to incredibly useless in terms of gained abilities.Understood. To meet your concerns about 3rd level being great for dips and 7th level being underwhelming, I've brought Remarkable Athlete to 3rd level, and pushed Unstoppable Force to 7th.

I'd like to make Remarkable Athlete a more worthwhile utility, but I'm not sure how.


At high levels, there's essentially no cost to using PA. [..]At high levels, Power Attack is only marginally more powerful than a set of Extra Attacks, so the diminishing severity of the penalty to AC is fine in my opinion.


Duelist:
I'm not sure what Main Gauche is supposed to accomplish. The others are fine, Duelist's Mark is only slightly underwhelming, but Main Gauche doesn't have function, I think. [...]I was unaware that bonus actions must be taken on your turn. The intention was of course to let a Duelist take two reactions using a light weapon in the off hand (such as a parry followed by a riposte). I'll edit the text to make this work.


These are then followed by Know Your Enemy, which is more useful than what the Brute gets, but it's still a downshot from what the first abilities were. It also got more powerful from it's Battlemaster appearance, unless I'm remembering wrong.Know Your Enemy is in fact buffed relative to the Battle Master. In my experience, simply knowing an ability score doesn't go very far, while knowing skills and saving throws is strategically meaningful.


Guardian:
Nice, something that's supposed to be tanky... Deflect is nice, but not actually that useful unless you're getting swarmed, or you have a Barbarian or Duelist near you(Redirect it to them, give them free attacks with Retaliation and Riposte). You could always deflect an attack into the attacker. What's more, you can deflect ranged attacks to anyone within range.


Dive technically does nothing, as shooting over a creature isn't uncommon, especially when the enemy or target is flying or taller then you. It doesn't say you take the attack, it says you give cover(Though this doesn't say if it's half, full, or 3/4)... But that only works on a perfectly flat plane to begin with, and a taller target or taller attacker wouldn't even be effected. So... Dive, not the best. The amount of cover you give depends on your size relative to the target behind you. "A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body [...] A target has three-quarters cover if about three-quarters of it is covered by an obstacle [...] A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle." Even if the attacker is tall enough to peer over you and see their target behind you, you covering your target from the waist down is enough to provide half cover.


Escort is also nice... Until you realize this and Dive both use next turn's movement, thereby making you a sitting duck, or forcing you to Dash as an action, neither of which are very good. Guardian could use some buffing. Originally Dive and Escort were reactions and did not cost future movement. It was then pointed out to me that two Guardians could move out of one another's reach and use Escort to follow, effectively dashing with their reactions.


Sanctuary:
Tying the reactions and AoO's to Disengage is a weird choice, but sure.It's mechanically important because it allows you to back away from melee and prevent others from following you. It's thematically representative of putting a weapon between yourself and those who would either attack or follow you. I've edited the text to highlight this.


It makes me thing a 2 level Rogue dip is OP as hell, though, since it would let you Attack, then take 5 reactions with your bonus action.I specified "Disengage action" rather than just "Disengage" thinking it would be clear that using a bonus action to disengage does not trigger the effect. I've edited the text to clarify this.


Vigilant(You spelled it wrong, btw) is actually really nice, though could stand to be more powerful, being that it's arguably the weakest so far. Initiative is certainly important... But not nearly as important as understanding your enemy, Evading damage, or even getting more athletic.Understood. To meet your concerns about 3rd level being great for dips and 7th level being underwhelming, I've brought Vigilant to 3rd level, made it a more useful utility, and pushed Immovable Object to 7th level.


Sharpshooter:
Overall, the features here are weaker than others, but due to the inherent advantage possessed by ranged weapons, I don't see the problem. I can see some abuse problems with the attack action and Eagle Eyes(As it doesn't say opportunity attacks, it's just attacks), though. That should be cleaned up, as at the moment, you can declare whatever direction you want as your watch, then attack as many times as possible with advantage against the targets with any weapon(As it also doesn't say ranged attacks).I was fiddling with the Sharpshooter last night in response to some criticisms, and so it was somewhere between edits and very dysfunctional. It definitely needs cleanup.


Speedshooter:
Honestly... This one is pretty good. It seems like it has too much control right off the bat, being that it can immediately hit everything you want it to and nothing that you don't within an area. Technically, it could even just be one creature, as you can declare a 5 ft. circle, then choose to ignore everything but the chosen creature. It would be pointless, but it's an option. Think Fast also isn't the best 7th level feature, but it's better than some. It might need a little tweaking, but this one is definitely nice.Understood. To meet your concerns about 3rd level being great for dips and 7th level being underwhelming, I've brought Think Fast to 3rd (alongside Cloud of Missiles) and pushed Storm's Eye to 7th.

[GalacticAxekick]

And now, to answer some miscellaneous comments:


@Galactic, answer my riddles many; If you're using Cleave, and you've coated the blade in poison(Or something else, like Magic Weapon or something), how does it work? It the physical applied before the poison? Simultaneously? Does poison damage carry, or does it impact everything you hit? If the attack would kill, do you use all of the poison damage before carrying the damage to the next guy? Etc. Etc.Fantastic question! If the damage is tied to a saving throw (see: poison) I'd only deal that damage to the original target, and I'd do all that bonus damage before carrying the attack damage to the next guy.

If the damage is tied to the attack roll (see: Magic Weapon) it would be applied just like the physical damage. If there's more than one damage type involved, I'd probably deal an equal amount of both until one is used up. If I deal 15 slashing damage and 5 fire damage to a creature with 10 hit points, it loses 5 to slashing and 5 to fire, leaving 10 flashing for the next guy. If this were a computer game, I'd deal an amount of each damage type proportional to the amount my attack carries (e.g. 3/4 slashing, 1/4 fire), but that would be hard to calculate at the table.


Actually I think you should scale down the dice and make how I thought power attack worked. Allow me to explain if everyone else gets a rider on an action other than Attack, what if the Brute has the damage rider of 1-4 dice on the Attack action but can't make any actions for the rest of the round. It gets the power you want at a cost but the attack is less than sneak attack.


Extra attacks AND extra damage: Scale it down and have it apply 1/round. No need for it to keep up with sneak attack. I mean, even if it progresses at 2/3 of sneak attack, it'll still deal, by itself, almost as much damage if only because more attack rolls can apply it. Let alone the extra base damage for having more attacks.If I were interested in making the Fighter deal more damage, I'd have kept static bonuses such as the original fighting styles, improved critical and such. The goal of the die progression is not to make the Fighter stronger, but to let the Fighter deal damage using its reactions, lest they become inconsequential at higher levels.

The Brute is a bit of an outlier, since it co-opted the die progression after I wrote the Duelist and Sniper. But even the Brute doesn't use the die progression to hit harder: rather it uses it to support the charge and cleave mechanics.


Guardian as a class variant to the original fighter:

Maybe not as is, but don't tell me it doesn't seem on par with the Champion. Deflect, an area shielded, escort and bastion. All it would lack to take the place of the highest tier ability would be something like having an area effect like a breath weapon or a fireball only affect you, or be able to affect the target of your choice with a dex-based save you saved against, deflecting magic.

This NEEDS to exist. Take the compliment.I wasn't insulted. I was confused. I thought you meant class, as in Barbarian, Fighter, Guardian, but you seem to mean subclass, as in Cavalier, Sharpshooter, Guardian. That makes more sense.

As a side note, the Guardian can already deflect spell attacks, and if it is standing at the source of an area effect such as the centre of a Fireball or the mouth of a dragon, it's providing cover to every creature in the effect's area.


Quick Draw: [...] what about Brace, Quickdraw, a bow, a polearm, a sword and the Sentinel feat @ lvl 3 (or is it 7?) Shoot at distance. When enemy is close enough, Brace with crossbow. Jam @ 15. Drop crossbow and pick polearm and Brace. Jam at 10. Drop polearm, draw sword. Jam in melee. Enemy try to bypass you. Legit AoO. Still stuck in melee. You okay with all that?I actually typed out "Of course I'm okay with this. If the enemy wants to get by you, they can just Disengage". Then I realized the Sentinel feat prevents enemies from doing so. I'd honestly just remove that clause from the feat.

[Fellentos]

Great work! All the archetypes mesh well with your revision. It isn't entirely what I'm looking for myself, but I think it's well designed!

[GalacticAxekick]

Great work! All the archetypes mesh well with your revision. It isn't entirely what I'm looking for myself, but I think it's well designed!You actually caught me between edits! I'm reworking this project based on criticisms and my own thoughts.

I'll see if I can make it presentable and revive this thread to get some second opinions.