Half-Elf Arcane Trickster 3 / Warlock 2 - What next?

[Wasp]

Hi everyone

Biggstick from the forums here recommended to me several months ago an Arcane Trickster 3 / Warlock 2 Build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22768710&postcount=10) I quite liked.

My idea was to have a changeling skill monkey that has the invisible hand feature (and a bunch of other stuff not that important here) and Biggstick recommended to use the Warlock's Mask of Many Faces feature instead to achieve the Changeling's ability.

I am now thinking about creating a half-elf skill monkey as a (magical) support character based on that idea from back then. The features I would really like to see:
- Social Skill Monkey,
- Invisible Mage Hand, and
- The Mask of Many Faces

I also would like the character to be a half elf but that's open to debate - but that's it it. Except that I really like the bard as a concept...:smallcool:

Sooo.... What would you do after level 5 with this character? Would it make sense to go bard? Or would you go Warlock all the way? Or even continue as AT? I am open to anything!

[Quoxis]

I am now thinking about creating a half-elf skill monkey as a (magical) support character based on that idea from back then. The features I would really like to see:
- Social Skill Monkey,
- Invisible Mage Hand, and
- The Mask of Many Faces


Intermission: starting rogue gives you 4 skill proficiencies, half elf another 2 and your background yet another 2, that’s 8 skills you‘re proficient in, two of which you add expertise to at first level. That’s impressive skill-monkeying right there already.



Except that I really like the bard as a concept...:smallcool:

Sooo.... What would you do after level 5 with this character? Would it make sense to go bard? Or would you go Warlock all the way? Or even continue as AT? I am open to anything!

Dipping bard gives you one more skill and one music instrument proficiency - both neat to have, but not really needed for someone proficient in 8 skills.
You also get access to healing spells (which celestial warlock would also provide), and some neat buffs that most warlocks won’t get (faerie fire, for example), and a number of d6‘s to inspire your allies with.
The higher your level investment into bard, the more features you get:
- jack of all trades for more (more or less necessary) skillmonkeying
- song of rest for, let’s be honest, minimal ooc healing regarding the level it comes online at
- at Level 3 another two expertises (which you could’ve gotten with the same investment into rogue) and a subclass feature that lets you use your inspiration differently
- at level 6 two magical secrets spells, but that’s a steep investment - your character is lvl 11 by now and still dabbling with 3rd level spells

That was a tad pessimistic; a good thing about low-level warlock dips is that most of its good spells are better when upcast, due to how warlocks work singleclassedly. With your build, your caster level is pretty low - basically your bard level +1, resulting in lots of low-level spells and cantrips, but at levels where others cast 5th level spells (9th) all you have are 2nd level spells and 3rd level slots. That’s not terrible, but you sacrifice spell slot levels AND a lot of features that make the 1/3 casters viable by spreading out that far.

Imo, it could work, but you’re probably better off with decent dex, focusing on rogue and using your magic to enhance your in and out of combat prowess.

[Specter]

Three classes seems like too much.

Personally I'd stick with Arcane Trickster. There's an ASI, Uncanny Dodge, more expertise, Evasion, more Sneak Attack dice and 2nd-level Wizard spells waiting for you, all in the next four levels.

[MephitBlue]

One more level of Warlock gets you a pact boon, which can add a lot of versatility to your character. Pact of the Tome along with Book of Ancient Secrets gives you a bunch of cantrips and ritual spell casting. Pact of the chain a super familiar that can scout and aide you in battle to give advantage (and sneak attack), Pact of the blade will give you a second attack if you are willing to go up to level 5 in Warlock.

What Warlock Patron are you planning on taking? Hexblade gives you medium armor and shield proficiency. While your Dex likely makes light armor a better choice, the +2 to AC from a shield is always nice. Hexblade's curse gives you a little more damage and a small amount of healing. Celestial gives you some healing as well if your party needs it.

As cool as Bards are, adding a third multiclass delays getting cool features from your other two classes. Rogue gets Uncanny Dodge and anther D6 sneak attack at level 5, more expertise at level 6, and Evasion and another sneak attack D6 at level 7. If you take Warlock Pact of the Blade, you are delaying getting a second attack.

I'm currently playing a level 6 Swashbuckler 3 / Hexblade Pact of the Blade 3 Tabaxi and I can tell you from my experience that delaying the upper level features of class hurts. Uncanny Dodge and getting a second attack are two abilities I don't want to wait on by adding a third class.

[Wasp]

Thank you for the explanations! I think I will take one more level of Warlock and the stick with Arcane Trickster then.

Regarding the kind of Warlock... I was thinking Tome Hexblade. But from a flavor perspective I could see also Archfey or Celestial as a patron. What do you think would be the best option in such a dip scenario?

[Quoxis]

Thank you for the explanations! I think I will take one more level of Warlock and the stick with Arcane Trickster then.

Regarding the kind of Warlock... I was thinking Tome Hexblade. But from a flavor perspective I could see also Archfey or Celestial as a patron. What do you think would be the best option in such a dip scenario?

Probably hexblade, given that you’re the social type and those warlocks can use charisma instead of dex for their weapon attacks AND medium armor + shield proficiency, so dex isn’t that much of a requirement anymore. Start rogue so you get the most skill proficiencies and dex saves, that should cover most of it so you can leave your dex at 14-16, focusing on cha. Hexblade‘s curse also gives you improvemed crit range on your target, a feature most rogues would love because crits also work for sneak attack dice (and who doesn’t want to roll 10d6 damage?).

Celestial gives you healing magic which scales horribly and could only be used to get downed buddies up and running again, and the healing class feature keys off your warlock level - i‘d pass.

Fey warlock forces you back into using dex with eldritch blast as a backup, it’s got one of my favorite spells (faerie fire, which is great on a rogue), but you won’t be able to invest as much into cha so don’t expect it to work that well. The feature to scare or charm creatures could be nifty because it conserves spell slots, but again - you won’t have the charisma to pull it off reliably.

Fiend gives you low level damage spells which are more or less redundant except for horde battles, but again: you won’t have the charisma for it to really hurt. Giving yourself temporary hit points is neat too, especially on a rogue, but both your cha and your warlock level won’t be too high, and what’s 6hp at level 10? Nothing worth gimping yourself for.

GOO i love, mainly for fluff and because i‘m a sucker for free, more or less untraceable telepathy and the spells you get are neat too, but as with the last few guys: not enough cha.

As for the pact, tome is fine on anyone - grab flavor or utility cantrips and, with the additional invocation slot you get at third level you can make your book hold any ritual you come across.
Blade would fit for a hexblade, but unless you’re planning on dual wielding i wouldn’t do it and instead hope for a +2 weapon drop. You’re not getting high enough warlock levels to make it worthwhile.
Grabbing a quasit or imp familiar by getting the chain pact could be both flavorful and mechanically beneficial, as those are also shapeshifters and can be invisible, mount you and grant you sneak attack because technically there’s „another creature within 5 feet“ of your target.