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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next The Oath of the Lorekeeper [Paladin Subclass] [PEACH]



Thanatos 51-50
2018-06-16, 09:16 PM
This would be a great place to put an introduction, wouldn't it? Something flavourful and evocative. Some witty quote to summarize the Subclass, perhaps with an original character or some writing! Maybe even some art! I should... I should look into doing that, huh?

Anywhere there is civilization, growth, and intelligence, there is a burning curiosity in the hearts of the people. There's is a wanderlust and desire to know more. There is learning. Libraries are collected, tabulated and correlated, so as to further the knowledge of the whole and the community. The first Paladins to take the Oath of the Lorekeeper pledged themselves, heart, body, and soul to the protection of these libraries, to the spreading and safeguarding of the work of so many lives and so much knowledge. For this, they are often known as Librarians or Book Knights.

As the drive to learn grows, eventually, adventurers begin delving into dark and secret places, to learn from the near-forgotten lore of their forebears, and it is here that the Lorekeepers flourished, pledging themselves to the defense of these adventurers, to the retrieval and preservation of knowledge once thought lost. The Lorekeeper began taking up sword and shield and plate and their devotion to this cause, and their Faith in the goodness of learning are what instilled them with their first powers. They became the first Lorekeepers in Truth, and, to this day, work to train new Paladins and uphold the virtues of knowledge and Learning.

THE TENETS OF THE LOREKEEPER
Knowledge: A Lorekeeper is, first and foremost, committed to the acquisition and safeguarding of Knowledge, and so to destroy any Knowledge -- no matter how dangerous, is a Sin

Truth: The purpose of a lie is to obscure truth, which hampers the pursuit of Knowledge. A Lorekeeper must seek to keep such a Sin from their mouths.

Preservation: A life is a library. It is Knowledge manifest and wrought with Soul and Flesh. To Strip it from the world without just cause is a Sin.

OATH SPELLS:
Level 3; Speak With Animals, Comprehend Language
Level 5; Detect Thoughts, Knock
Level 9; Clairvoyance, Speak with Dead
Level 13; Divination, Dimension Door
Level 17; Scrying, Legend Lore

CHANNEL DIVINITY
When you pick this oath at third level, you gain the following Channel Divinity options.
Know the Flow: As an action, you or an ally you can see within 30 feet gain a bonus to their armour class equal to your Intelligence modifier, as you suffuse them with a preternatural awareness of the shape of the battle unfolding. This effect ends when the ally leaves the 30 foot radius, when you can no longer see them, after one minute has passed, you choose to end the effect, or until you drop your Concentration.

Knowledge From Without: As an action, you can choose to have you and any non-hostile creature within 30 feet gain advantage on its Nature, History, Arcana, Religion, and Investigation checks for the next ten minutes, until you drop your Concentration, or you choose to end the effect. During this time, you gain proficiency in Nature, History, Arcana, Religion, and Investigation, as well.

The Study of Spellcraft
When you pick this oath at third level, you may choose to use your INT modifier instead of your CHA modifier for your spell attack bonuses and your spell save Dcs.
Additionally, when you prepare your Paladin spells, you may choose to prepare a number of spells equal to your INT modifier + half your Paladin level, rounded down (With a minimum of one spell). They must still be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Aura of the Scholar
Starting at seventh level, you and friendly creatures within ten feet of you have advantage on spell saving throws and saving throws against magical traps.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

The Fabric Arcanum
Beginning at 15th level, you are able to Detect Magic at will, as per the spell of the same name.
Additionally, you receive a bonus to your attack rolls and armour class equal to your INT modifier when facing constructs or undead.

Nexus of Lore
Beginning at Level 20, as an action, you willingly surrender yourself, body and soul, into the swirling vortex of knowledge that permeates all things, taking on a misty, incorporeal-seeming form as a result, thought the exact specifics of the form are up to you, you do still retain your corporeal nature, approximate size and dimensions (A Halfling Paladin does not suddenly become Large, for example). You can retain this form for one minute and, while within it, gain the following benefits.


You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed with perfect maneuverability
Whenever you cast a spell, you may choose to have all of its damage and healing dice treated as though they rolled the maximum number possible
Whenever you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 action, you may shorten the casting time to a bonus action



At the Paladin's Discretion, they may also assume this form outside of combat to Peek Behind The Screen and seek information on any one person, place or thing they do so desire, at which point they are considered to have true and complete knowledge of that item as it exists at the time. A Paladin may know, for example, that the Orc Warlord Grek'nar is marching upon the capital of the Empire with a host of 40,000 warriors, anticipates a prolonged siege, and expects to arrive within three days, but they would not know of the storm brewing off the coast which will result in the death of half the Warlord's army, prompting a retreat.
This true and complete information will erase itself from the Paladin's mind after a week has passed, or until the Paladin decides to Peek Behind The Screen again. Any attempts to share or record this knowledge will automatically fail as the information erases itself from the Paladinís mind. The secrets of the multiverse are not for sharing.
Peeking Behind the Screen lasts for the entire minute of the Nexus of Lore's duration, during which you cannot move, speak, or participate in combat (you are considered Incapacitated).
Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you finish a Long Rest.

Blackbando
2018-06-17, 12:11 PM
Oooh, lore! I love lorekeeping!

Tenants
It's tenets, actually. Anyways, nothing wrong with 'em, seems very logical.

Oath Spells
Looks good here.

Channel Divinities
Know the Flow
I'll get into the Intelligence thing on the actual feature changing your mods to int (which, by the way, should probably be before the divinities). It's fairly powerful, although considering the restrictions, it should be fine.

Knowledge from Without
I want to say this is a bit much, but it is just knowledge skills. Maybe not give you proficiency in the skills? The giving proficiency weirdly makes it so the Channel Divinity is worse if you are proficient in the skills, which is odd. I don't think making it "expertise if you have prof already" is a good idea, so I'd just recommend keeping it to the nice advantage.

The Study of Spellcraft
I do like features changing your casting mod, but those should usually be given earlier. Also, you'd be a fool to use this as written; yes, your spell saves and attacks now use Intelligence, but not Aura of Protection! You'd be better off changing the wording to more like "your spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and all your paladin features". If you do so, I also recommend making Know the Flow use Charisma, as this feature would change it to int if you use it, instead of pigeonholing you into using int.

Aura of the Scholar
I don't really get this aura. It can kinda fit, but it feels too loose on the lore, IMO. Maybe make this subclass one of the paladins without an aura (like Vengeance), and give it expertise on two knowledge skills of the paladin's choice?

Fabric Arcanum
Weird wording (you could just say "you can cast detect magic at will"), but the first part is solid. Second part is really weird, though; it doesn't feel like it fits the theme well. Maybe "you can read all languages", or some other similar ribbon?

Nexus of Lore
I really, really like Peek Behind the Screen, but I don't like the 1-minute-hero-mode part of this feature. I think you could just keep it as Peek Behind the Screen; not all paladin oaths need to be super combat focused, it's fine to have one that's more knowledge/support based when the majority of other oaths are combat focused. Especially when Peek Behind the Screen is really strong, and really, really fun!

OVERALL
I like what you're doing here! This needs some tweaks, certainly, and a bit of the combat mechanics kinda feel shoehorned in. However, this oath definitely has a lot of potential, and I hope it improves!

Thanatos 51-50
2018-06-18, 06:19 AM
...
Channel Divinities
Know the Flow
... (which, by the way, should probably be before the divinities). ...

I'm confused as to what your issue is? The Feature letting you cast from INT happens at the same level? Is this just a formatting gripe?


Knowledge from Without
I want to say this is a bit much, but it is just knowledge skills. Maybe not give you proficiency in the skills? The giving proficiency weirdly makes it so the Channel Divinity is worse if you are proficient in the skills, which is odd. I don't think making it "expertise if you have prof already" is a good idea, so I'd just recommend keeping it to the nice advantage.I keep flopping back and forth with this in my design doc, to be honest, switching the language between "giving it to one creature" and "Giving it to all valid creatures". I don't see this as being strictly worse if you have the knowledge skill in question, though. It still applies the advantage to you and the entire party. Maybe a little bit of meeting half way with "You may apply your proficiency bonus to [skills] as well"?


The Study of Spellcraft
I do like features changing your casting mod, but those should usually be given earlier. Also, you'd be a fool to use this as written; yes, your spell saves and attacks now use Intelligence, but not Aura of Protection! You'd be better off changing the wording to more like "your spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and all your paladin features". If you do so, I also recommend making Know the Flow use Charisma, as this feature would change it to int if you use it, instead of pigeonholing you into using int.
I can't give features earlier than you get the subclass, and Paladin subclasses happen at level three. Paladins only get spellcasting at level two, and it's not a huge part of their kit at that point, so I don't feel like the one level "loss" of slightly is really that big of a deal. Sub-optimal, yes, but not that big of a deal.
I also very intentionally wrote this as an option instead of making it mandatory. You can still cast from CHA this way if you wanted.
And I didn't want to blam Charisma utterly. It's a bit of Author Appeal, to be sure, but I have a soft spot for CHA. A Paladin is usually in heavy armour and using melee weapons, anyway, so your dump stat is still Dexterity.


Aura of the Scholar
I don't really get this aura. It can kinda fit, but it feels too loose on the lore, IMO. Maybe make this subclass one of the paladins without an aura (like Vengeance), and give it expertise on two knowledge skills of the paladin's choice?
But... But Auras?
Yeah. I'm going to be a thousand percent honest, here. I struggled with even coming up with this aura and I somehow completely missed that Avenger didn't have one, so didn't even think of a non-Aura option. I'll toy around a bit and workshop some ideas.


Fabric Arcanum
Weird wording (you could just say "you can cast detect magic at will")
I started D&D with 3.x. Some of the wording tricks stuck in my brain. Besides, casting Detect Magic still takes an Action. This way it's always on! (Yeah, I'll change it to be more in line with 5e balancing. Good catch!)

...Second part is really weird, though; it doesn't feel like it fits the theme well. Maybe "you can read all languages", or some other similar ribbon?
I have been looking for a place to drop some language skills into the progression.

The logic of the second bit (since you seemed curious) was to A) give the Paladin some in-combat powers and B) predicated on the logic that, if a Wizard is jealously guarding their secrets of the Universe and personal library, or there's some old, duty dungeon full of books, stuff is probably going to be guarded by pre-programmed magical constructs that need little to no maintenance -- that is, Undead and Constructs.

Other subclass features here all "Selfish" defensive features, and I wanted to keep the themeing of them being both "Selfish" and "defensive", but I'll workshop some ideas, anyway.


Nexus of Lore
I really, really like Peek Behind the Screen,
SCORE!

but I don't like the 1-minute-hero-mode part of this feature. I think you could just keep it as Peek Behind the Screen; not all paladin oaths need to be super combat focused, it's fine to have one that's more knowledge/support based when the majority of other oaths are combat focused. Especially when Peek Behind the Screen is really strong, and really, really fun!

So, the "hero mode" portion of this feature has undergone lots of revisions. I want to retain it being there because A) all the other subclasses have it and I don't want to deviate too far from established norms and B) Because if I don't put it in there, the Paladin's capstone class feature just becomes a one-off once per week deal, which feels... cheap and underwhelming to me. Even if it's something powerful like Peek Behind The Screen. You get one week of knowledge about a thing that you can't even share or write down! How lame would that be? Ultimately, I'd like to keep some form of "hero mode" just for that purpose. Do you have any ideas for making it more support orientated?

Blackbando
2018-06-18, 06:10 PM
I'm confused as to what your issue is? The Feature letting you cast from INT happens at the same level? Is this just a formatting gripe?
100% a formatting gripe. I'm a little nitpicky with my criticism, because I find that nitpicking can help give the highest quality content overall. You're free to ignore that part of my critique, if you like; I won't mind.


I keep flopping back and forth with this in my design doc, to be honest, switching the language between "giving it to one creature" and "Giving it to all valid creatures". I don't see this as being strictly worse if you have the knowledge skill in question, though. It still applies the advantage to you and the entire party. Maybe a little bit of meeting half way with "You may apply your proficiency bonus to [skills] as well"?
Might need a bit of fixing on the wording, because you could then have Expertise and then prof one more time. Although, now that I think of it, Oath of Redemption had +5 to Charisma (i believe persuasion?) checks for a duration as a Channel Divinity, so maybe that's not a bad thing.



I can't give features earlier than you get the subclass, and Paladin subclasses happen at level three. Paladins only get spellcasting at level two, and it's not a huge part of their kit at that point, so I don't feel like the one level "loss" of slightly is really that big of a deal. Sub-optimal, yes, but not that big of a deal.
Fair enough.

I also very intentionally wrote this as an option instead of making it mandatory.
Of course; if you didn't make it an option, then I'd be criticizing that aspect.


And I didn't want to blam Charisma utterly. It's a bit of Author Appeal, to be sure, but I have a soft spot for CHA. A Paladin is usually in heavy armour and using melee weapons, anyway, so your dump stat is still Dexterity.
I don't personally agree with that, as then a paladin using this variant is a lot more MAD, but I'll agree to disagree on this.


So, the "hero mode" portion of this feature has undergone lots of revisions. I want to retain it being there because A) all the other subclasses have it and I don't want to deviate too far from established norms and B) Because if I don't put it in there, the Paladin's capstone class feature just becomes a one-off once per week deal, which feels... cheap and underwhelming to me. Even if it's something powerful like Peek Behind The Screen. You get one week of knowledge about a thing that you can't even share or write down! How lame would that be? Ultimately, I'd like to keep some form of "hero mode" just for that purpose. Do you have any ideas for making it more support orientated?

I should've clarified; I'm fine with it having a hero mode, but the currently given hero mode doesn't fit the theme. This would certainly be powerful, but perhaps give advantage on all melee attack rolls (you're peering into the minds of your targets to attack them, think like true strike, which is divination), and maybe on all mental saving throws?