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gavinator154
2018-07-12, 01:38 PM
Hello everyone! After some thorough searching, I haven't been able to find anyone trying to do what I am trying. If anyone has seen something like this, please send me the link. The more help the better.

I am going to be starting a new game up soon, and I have a player who wants to play a character like Rogue from the Xmen. After an explanation that those kinds of powers didn't really exist, but that I could make her a "Touch Mage", which she like the idea of.

The main problem I am focusing on is the idea I have for her first level feature. All damaging cantrips have a range of Touch. There will be some kind of buff for using these cantrips or get some temp hp if they kill them. The problem I am facing is two-fold.

1) How do spells hit by touch? Do I set them all to AC, let them keep the spell save of the spell, or something else?

2) Specific spells: Eldritch Blast, Thunderclap, Word of Radiance, Sword Burst, Magic Stone, Create Bonfire. How do these spells work with touch range?

Any help will be very much appreciated.

Lalliman
2018-07-12, 03:42 PM
Is this for a class, subclass, or something else? If it's a class, the obvious solution is to not put incompatible spells on the list.

Any AOE spell obviously doesn't work as a touch spell, so I would simply not offer those. (You could have the effect originate from a touched target, but that doesn't always make thematic sense, and raises the question of whether the caster should get hit.) Create Bonfire could be cast by touching the square in question, I guess, but that would still be affecting the environment instead of affecting the target directly. So if you want to stick close to Rogue's modus operandi you should probably toss that one too. Magic Stone is already touch-based but suffers from the same problem as Create Bonfire. And Eldritch Blast, why would this class even have that? That's only for pact magic.

I would say that, yes, any cantrip turned into a touch attack should target AC. Poison Spray, for example, has a saving throw because it's basically impossible to dodge, it's a cloud of gas. So instead, the target's ability to resist it comes from their physical fortitude. But if you're casting Poison Spray as a touch spell, it becomes dodgeable, and thus it no longer makes sense to have no attack roll. You could of course have an attack roll and a save, but that would make it too weak to use. So instead, everything just becomes an attack vs AC.

gavinator154
2018-07-12, 04:08 PM
Is this for a class, subclass, or something else? If it's a class, the obvious solution is to not put incompatible spells on the list.

Any AOE spell obviously doesn't work as a touch spell, so I would simply not offer those. (You could have the effect originate from a touched target, but that doesn't always make thematic sense, and raises the question of whether the caster should get hit.) Create Bonfire could be cast by touching the square in question, I guess, but that would still be affecting the environment instead of affecting the target directly. So if you want to stick close to Rogue's modus operandi you should probably toss that one too. Magic Stone is already touch-based but suffers from the same problem as Create Bonfire. And Eldritch Blast, why would this class even have that? That's only for pact magic.

I would say that, yes, any cantrip turned into a touch attack should target AC. Poison Spray, for example, has a saving throw because it's basically impossible to dodge, it's a cloud of gas. So instead, the target's ability to resist it comes from their physical fortitude. But if you're casting Poison Spray as a touch spell, it becomes dodgeable, and thus it no longer makes sense to have no attack roll. You could of course have an attack roll and a save, but that would make it too weak to use. So instead, everything just becomes an attack vs AC.

Apologies. I wrote this post once before but the site timed me out and I had to retype it, forgetting some important information. This is a Warlock Subclass to be more specific (which is why the focus is on cantrips), and of course, Pact of the Tome gives 3 cantrips of ANY class, which is why the problem cantrips are so varied and why Eldritch blast is included.

I was already thinking that going vs AC was okay, just wanted to verify that was a completely stupid plan.

Breaking down the cantrips:

Eldritch Blast: This targets multiple. Do I say that they all target the person hit? Do I say it is a burst and where after hitting the first target the other beams shoot forth? This is my main worry.

Sword Burst, Thunderclap, and Word of Radiance: I could just say that they don't hurt he, since the first two have their point of origin on her normally, and then if she hits, let the spell work from the target. I also realized that these 3 only have a range of 5 feet, which can easily be flavored as magic bursting forth from her target.

Magic Stone and Conjure Bonfire: I realized these aren't actually "damaging cantrips", they conjure something that can be used to deal damage (excuses, excuses).

So the main issue is Eldritch Blast. One thing I had thought about was replace the spell for her with a touch version. Eldritch Burst or something of the like. If she hits her first target, that uses a beam and the other beams burst forth from there. I think it has some merit, but please, feel free to give me a different perspective.

Composer99
2018-07-12, 05:02 PM
For eldritch blast, I would suggest that at base it becomes a touch-range spell whose damage scales as other cantrips do, instead of firing multiple beams.

Because that is a nerf to the spell, you should either add a burst damage effect (*) or a save-ends condition or damage-over-time effect to make up for the forgone damage.

(*) For instance, on a hit it deals force damage, equal to your Charisma modifier, to each creature within 5 feet of the target, excluding yourself, that fails a Dexterity saving throw. (No idea if this is good, math-wise, just tossing it off as a possibility.)