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Grod_The_Giant
2018-07-23, 01:48 PM
I'd previously had this as a subclass for my Scholar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?543633-New-base-Clase-The-Scholar), but... given that it basically boils down to "rogue with healing packs," I thought it might work better as a Rogue subclass.


Surgeon
Special: Upon choosing this archetype, you may trade your proficiency in Thieves' Tools for proficiency in herbalism kits, and your ability to speak Thieves' Cant for the ability to speak another language.

School of Medicine: Beginning at 3rd level, you gain Proficiency in Medicine, if you did not already have it, and may add twice your Proficiency bonus to such checks.

Scalpel Mastery: Beginning at 3rd level, daggers you wield do 1d6 damage instead of 1d4. You may draw a dagger as part of the same action you use to attack with it.

Battlefield Medicine: You know the secrets of medicine, enabling you to treat wounds in the blink of an eye. Beginning at 3rd level, you may expend a charge from a healerís kit as an action to allow an adjacent creature to expend their own hit dice to regain hit points, as though taking a Short Rest.

In addition, once per Long Rest, you may spend one hour preparing special healing packs. You may create and carry a number of such packs equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Once prepared, unused packs lose their potency after 24 hours.

Anyone may use one of your packs as though it was a charge from a healing kit, but they have special potential in your hands: if you spend an action to apply one to an adjacent creature (or yourself), that creature regains hit points equal to your Sneak Attack damage plus your Intelligence modifier.

Alternatively, you may use a pack to cure a disease, heal one condition (either blinded, deafened, paralyzed, or poisoned), and undo any other effect that can be ended by a Lesser Restoration spell. Beginning at 9th level, you may also remove the charmed or petrified condition from a creature, to undo a reduction of an ability score or hit point total, or any other effect (apart from exhaustion) that can be ended by a Greater Respiration spell. Beginning at 13th level, you may also expend a healing pack to reattach a severed limb, as the Regenerate spell.

Diagnosis: Beginning at 9th level, as a bonus action you may pick a creature you can see and learn its current hit points, proficiency bonus, and any conditions it is currently being affected by.

Plague Needle: Beginning at 13th level, you have learned the darker side to your craft. As a bonus action, you can expend a healing pack to coat a melee weapon or piece of ammunition with infectious agents. The next target you strike with that weapon must make a Constitution save or be affected as though by a Contagion spell. Treated weapons lose their potency after 1 hour.

Emergency Surgery: Beginning at 13th level, once per long rest you may use a healing packs to restore life to a creature who died in the last minute. This functions as the Revivify spell, but restores the creature to zero hit points but stable. Using this ability provokes opportunity attacks.

Mastery of Life and Death: Biology bows its head to you in shame, while scalpel and needle fly under your fingers. You may apply healing packs using your Battlefield Medicine ability as a bonus action. In addition, you have discovered a way to defy the grave itself. As part of an twenty-four-hour procedure requiring 1000 gold worth of alchemical reagents and medical supplies, you may restore life to a single corpse that still has its brain intact. You cannot regenerate missing flesh or body parts, but you can replace them with those of another body that has been dead for no more than one day. This ability otherwise functions as the Resurrection spell.

Doing so functions as the Resurrection spell, save that it takes eight hours to perform and consumes alchemical reagents worth 1,500 gold. You do not automatically restore missing body parts

Sariel Vailo
2018-07-23, 02:04 PM
I wanted to play this type of rogue for a while sans repo the genetic opera. So im now a street doctor, sweeet.

Grear Bylls
2018-07-23, 11:29 PM
I'd previously had this as a subclass for my Scholar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?543633-New-base-Clase-The-Scholar), but... given that it basically boils down to "rogue with healing packs," I thought it might work better as a Rogue subclass.


Surgeon
Special: Upon choosing this archetype, you may trade your proficiency in Thieves' Tools for proficiency in herbalism kits, and your ability to speak Thieves' Cant for the ability to speak another language.

School of Medicine: Beginning at 3rd level, you gain Proficiency in Medicine, if you did not already have it, and may add twice your Proficiency bonus to such checks.

Scalpel Mastery: Beginning at 3rd level, daggers you wield do 1d6 damage instead of 1d4. In addition, as a bonus action you may pick a creature you can see and attempt a DC 10 Intelligence check to identify them. You have Advantage on attempts to identify Beasts and Humanoids, and Disadvantage on attempts to identify Aberrations and any creatures not native to the material plane (such as a demon). If you succeed, for one minute you may apply your Sneak Attack to attacks against the creature even if you do not have Advantage or another ally adjacent to the creature.

Battlefield Medicine: You know the secrets of medicine, enabling you to treat wounds in the blink of an eye. Beginning at 3rd level, you may expend a charge from a healerís kit as an action to allow an adjacent creature to expend their own hit dice to regain hit points, as though taking a Short Rest.

In addition, once per Long Rest, you may spend one hour preparing special healing packs. You may create and carry a number of such packs equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Once prepared, unused packs lose their potency after 24 hours.

Anyone may use one of your packs as though it was a charge from a healing kit, but they have special potential in your hands: if you spend an action to apply one to an adjacent creature (or yourself), that creature regains hit points equal to your Sneak Attack damage plus your Intelligence modifier.

Diagnosis: Beginning at 9th level, as a bonus action you may pick a creature you can see and learn its current hit points, proficiency bonus, and any conditions it is currently being affected by.

Anatomical Strike: Beginning at 9th level, when you damage a foe you have successfully used your Scalpel Mastery ability to identify, you may impose Disadvantage on the target's Strength and Dexterity checks and saves until it recovers hit points.

Euthanasia: Beginning at 17th level, once per long rest when you damage a foe you have successfully used your Scalpel Mastery ability to identify, you may force them to make a Constitution save with a DC of 8+Prof+Int. If they fail, they are reduced to zero hit points; if they succeed, they take an additional 10d6 sneak attack damage.

Doesn't feel... surgeon-y. Some things do, most don't. It's also missing a 13th level ability. The final ability is effectively the same as an Assassin, but better, I'd argue. Also, it's Scalpel Mastery is very similar to the Inquisitor, accept, again, stronger. DC is generally easier than an opposed check. Battlefield Medicine also seems REDICULOUS. I'd limit the first part to one hit dice roll when you use it. You can use it again on them, but they'd wait till your next turn to get it, and it nerfs the immediate healing. The packs are the big kicker. 2d6+3 (assuming optimization) thrice per rest is very powerful for no cost. It gets even more ridiculous, topping at 10d6+5 5 times per rest. That's an average of 200 HP heals. Twice a Paladin log the same level. I'd change it to stabilize a creature with an action, and they get back Prof Mod+Int per pack. Diagnosis fits the flavor level ability. Good. Anatomical Strike feels fine. It's a solid ability for level 13. It's basically Hex. Capstone feature feels like a stolen assassin ability.

Vogie
2018-07-25, 12:54 PM
Scalpel Mastery: Beginning at 3rd level, daggers you wield do 1d6 damage instead of 1d4. In addition, as a bonus action you may pick a creature you can see and attempt a DC 10 Intelligence check to identify them. You have Advantage on attempts to identify Beasts and Humanoids, and Disadvantage on attempts to identify Aberrations and any creatures not native to the material plane (such as a demon). If you succeed, for one minute you may apply your Sneak Attack to attacks against the creature even if you do not have Advantage or another ally adjacent to the creature.

Battlefield Medicine: You know the secrets of medicine, enabling you to treat wounds in the blink of an eye. Beginning at 3rd level, you may expend a charge from a healerís kit as an action to allow an adjacent creature to expend their own hit dice to regain hit points, as though taking a Short Rest.

In addition, once per Long Rest, you may spend one hour preparing special healing packs. You may create and carry a number of such packs equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). Once prepared, unused packs lose their potency after 24 hours.

Anyone may use one of your packs as though it was a charge from a healing kit, but they have special potential in your hands: if you spend an action to apply one to an adjacent creature (or yourself), that creature regains hit points equal to your Sneak Attack damage plus your Intelligence modifier.



This may be a bridge too far, but what if you made this a choice? The trio of abilities for three seems too much for one subclass, but if you get Medicine proficiency and then CHOOSE between Battlefield Medicine and Scalpel Mastery, that could be interesting.

That way a player can be a person who knows the body intricately, as either a "Bay Harbor Butcher" type of way OR as a Mob-doctor. You'd have to adjust the identification feature, but I think it'd make the subclass more robust.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-07-25, 01:19 PM
Fair point on Scalpel Mastery-- I think I'll just cut the identification thing and leave it as a mostly-ribbon ability-- but this IS meant to be a nonmagic, primary healing option. It should be better than the Paladin's secondary healing.

(Should probably also allow them to treat conditions, while I'm at it).

Any suggestions for the capstone?

Vogie
2018-07-25, 04:09 PM
Anatomical Strike still refers to Scalpel Mastery rather than Diagnosis for identification.

I like that blend better.

The capstone is just an assassin-y copy of the Open Hand mastery, currently.

Now that Battlefield Medic can heal disease, perhaps make the capstone GIVE a disease? As though the target was hit by Contagion, and failed it's saving throws?

Actually, you could make Anatomical Strike give a single Contagion-style disease (not dissimilar to what you're doing now), but capped at one creature at a time. Then, you can use the capstone to give either Multiple targets diseases, or a single target multiple diseases, effectively stacking the ability.

I could also see a sort of "Flow State" that would mechanically function like Rage, but for Dex. During this flow state, your healing packs to act in a bonus action, and the Surgeon Rogues the ability to have 2 bonus actions/turn, rather than just 1.

It may sound a tad lame, but would follow the rogue 17th level feature design skeleton of "something you're already doing, but twice":

Assassin deals 2x damage on surprise
Inquisitive Increases sneak attack die by 50%
Mastermind doubles the believability of deception
Scout gives double sneak-y-attacks using the bonus action
Swashbuckler gives Double attacks via reroll with advantage
Thief just gives a double turn
It'd also give the rogue the ability to use their class features, then cunning action, and also attack. That'd be pretty sweet.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-07-25, 04:18 PM
Now that Battlefield Medic can heal disease, perhaps make the capstone GIVE a disease? As though the target was hit by Contagion, and failed it's saving throws?

Actually, you could make Anatomical Strike give a single Contagion-style disease (not dissimilar to what you're doing now), but capped at one creature at a time. Then, you can use the capstone to give either Multiple targets diseases, or a single target multiple diseases, effectively stacking the ability.
Ooh! I like that. At 13th level... should it cost a healing pack to use?


It may sound a tad lame, but would follow the rogue 17th level feature design skeleton of "something you're already doing, but twice":
Hmm...hadn't actually thought about that... Healing pack use as a bonus action? Maybe also a Frankenstein type resurrection ritual?

Vogie
2018-07-26, 09:47 AM
Ooh! I like that. At 13th level... should it cost a healing pack to use?

It certainly can. That'd cause meaningful choice on behalf of the player - do I crank up the damage via dexterity, or boost my intelligence for more healing packs.

You can make the 17th level feature also give 2 diseases with a single healing pack as well.


Hmm...hadn't actually thought about that... Healing pack use as a bonus action? Maybe also a Frankenstein type resurrection ritual?

You could go Ritual Raise Dead for a certain subset of creatures (probably humanoids), expand 2 healing packs for a revivify effect, or some other combination

Grod_The_Giant
2018-07-26, 11:03 AM
It certainly can. That'd cause meaningful choice on behalf of the player - do I crank up the damage via dexterity, or boost my intelligence for more healing packs.

You can make the 17th level feature also give 2 diseases with a single healing pack as well.



You could go Ritual Raise Dead for a certain subset of creatures (probably humanoids), expand 2 healing packs for a revivify effect, or some other combination
Okay. Anatomical Strike replaced a Contagion effect, and Euthenasia replaced with the ability to cackle madly while shouting "it's alive! It's alive!"

Vogie
2018-07-26, 01:37 PM
Okay. Anatomical Strike replaced a Contagion effect, and Euthenasia replaced with the ability to cackle madly while shouting "it's alive! It's alive!"



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