Mask of Many Misty Face Visions

[ZenBear]

My players have reached 2nd level and our Kenku Warlock is getting this dynamic duo of at will illusions. He and the Wizard made good use of double Minor Illusions in the last session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563227-Heroes-of-Westeros-2-0) but these invocations are gonna crank that up to 11. What suggestions do y’all have for how best to deal with this craziness? What sort of challenges can I put in front of him to make his talents shine, and what sort of absurdities and abuses should I look out for?

[DarkKnightJin]

They're likely going to be fairly skilled at stealth and deception.
Perhaps not sommich mechanically, but that's never stopped a PC from trying.

..Not if the Warlock with a -1 on Wisdom relentlessly trying to Insight check people is any indication.
And yes, that is a thing at a table I play with. He tends to roll under a 10 for about 90% of them, too.

As long as they, and you, are aware that they are still illusions.. It should work out alright.
Especially if they can make the intended target a bit panicky and less likely to check their surroundings.
So they don't figure out it's just an illusion.

Be prepared for them to get reeeaaal creative with the limits on what it can achieve.
One counter I can think of is giving a BBEG some way of gaining True Sight for important occasions.

But, be sure to let them bypass encounters if they think of a plan that allows them to realistically sidestep a fight.

Not sure what else I can say, really.

[Erys]

My players have reached 2nd level and our Kenku Warlock is getting this dynamic duo of at will illusions. He and the Wizard made good use of double Minor Illusions in the last session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563227-Heroes-of-Westeros-2-0) but these invocations are gonna crank that up to 11. What suggestions do y’all have for how best to deal with this craziness? What sort of challenges can I put in front of him to make his talents shine, and what sort of absurdities and abuses should I look out for?

Easily the meanest thing you can do, that will absolutely challenge the Kenku, is enforcing their curse of having no imagination/creativity what-so-ever. /evil grin

[Aett_Thorn]

Easily the meanest thing you can do, that will absolutely challenge the Kenku, is enforcing their curse of having no imagination/creativity what-so-ever. /evil grin

That is so deliciously evil. I love it! Might have to use that someday.

[SkylarkR6]

I used it every time my player's kenku tried to lie his way out of a situation. He always forgot about it by next game <cackle>

[ZenBear]

Easily the meanest thing you can do, that will absolutely challenge the Kenku, is enforcing their curse of having no imagination/creativity what-so-ever. /evil grin

That is a facet of his character that he has openly acknowledged since creation. I don't want to be an arsehat, but I will keep this in mind. He's liable to be a tool for the rest of the party then, which sort of circumvents this issue. That said, if they send him in with a plan and things go off script, he won't be able to improvise...

[Asmotherion]

Mask of Many Faces (and Disguise Self) is one of my favorite Invocations. However, it's limited by how often the DM allows a Creature to "Use it's Action for an Intelligence(Investigation) Check".

If everyone in the room, automatically sees you and is entitled an Investigation Check, you're bound to be Discovered Quickly.

I personally think it should work around doing something that raises suspision... A Charisma (Deception) or Charisma (Perform) check to act normally/like the person you're trying to act as VS Passive Perception of Creatures in the Room (If nobody is activelly looking for you at the moment). Any creature you don't meet the Passive Perception of, is then entitled to an Investigation Check.

That's how I personally DM it.

Now, for the question at hand. If someone thinks they're talking to their best friend, they will be willing to leak information. If they think they're talking to their boss, they may even get a submissive attitude, and persuated to act for the benefit of the party. Illusions can allow you to give Chaos to the Enemy Ranks, and change their attitude towards the party ("Summon" a bunsh of creatures, and make the appropriate sound effects. The enemy will probably run away in panic.)

[opaopajr]

Let 'em... and then take notes for some NPCs. Eventually a web of lies breaks down, that's part of the fun in doing so in an RPG! They obviously want to be challenged this way, so give them their trickery, non-violent successes until they place themselves in over their heads. :smallsmile:

[Sinon]

Mask of Many Faces – This looks really fun with the Mimicry ability of the Kenku. If they have the Friends cantrip, the warlock can use it in the guise of someone they want to mess with, and then leave. The victim's hostility is then directed at that other person.

Mire of the Mind – at this level, an at will spell is very nice.

Using Minor Illusion to add sound to a Silent Image is a creative option, especially when you are paired up with another caster, but when everyone started talking about the Kenku’s lack of creativity, my thoughts went to your wizard.

Right now, he doesn’t have a lot of damaging walls or zones, but he will later.

So, let’s say the wizard casts Grease. The Kenku copies; that's what they do. But his is just an illusion of Grease.

Opponents who slip in the wizard’s spell will assume the Kenku’s is just as real. Those who disbelieve the Kenku’s will foolishly charge through the wizard’s.

Not too crazy now, but once the wizard is casting Stinking Cloud or Evard’s Black Tentacles, you could have some interesting situations develop.

[werescythe]

My players have reached 2nd level and our Kenku Warlock is getting this dynamic duo of at will illusions. He and the Wizard made good use of double Minor Illusions in the last session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563227-Heroes-of-Westeros-2-0) but these invocations are gonna crank that up to 11. What suggestions do y’all have for how best to deal with this craziness? What sort of challenges can I put in front of him to make his talents shine, and what sort of absurdities and abuses should I look out for?

I honestly don't see the problem here. They are roleplaying, that is the whole point behind the game.

Also this really only affects the rp aspect with other NPCs. While Illusions may certainly have an impact on combat, most of those spells require an opposed test of some sort, so I suppose you could design some NPCs that are stronger against those tests.

But again I ask, what really is the problem? If they are roleplaying and everyone is having fun then it should be fine. No big deal. Only worry about it if they start using it to harass other players.

[DarkKnightJin]

Mask of Many Faces (and Disguise Self) is one of my favorite Invocations. However, it's limited by how often the DM allows a Creature to "Use it's Action for an Intelligence(Investigation) Check".

If everyone in the room, automatically sees you and is entitled an Investigation Check, you're bound to be Discovered Quickly.

I personally think it should work around doing something that raises suspision... A Charisma (Deception) or Charisma (Perform) check to act normally/like the person you're trying to act as VS Passive Perception of Creatures in the Room (If nobody is activelly looking for you at the moment). Any creature you don't meet the Passive Perception of, is then entitled to an Investigation Check.

That's how I personally DM it.

Now, for the question at hand. If someone thinks they're talking to their best friend, they will be willing to leak information. If they think they're talking to their boss, they may even get a submissive attitude, and persuated to act for the benefit of the party. Illusions can allow you to give Chaos to the Enemy Ranks, and change their attitude towards the party ("Summon" a bunsh of creatures, and make the appropriate sound effects. The enemy will probably run away in panic.)

I would personally not even have any Deception or Performance checks being made if the player being in disguise is RPing it well and not rousing suspicion with anybody else.
Someone trying to pass for a guard can usually do so without issue, so long as they *behave* like a guard. If they start doing things a guard wouldn't normally be doing without good cause, people will start to get suspicious. If they can recover in a credible fashion.. no rolls needed. They dig themselves deeper and/or rouse more suspicion?
Performance or Deception checks versus the NPC's Insight.
If they are behaving like anything BUT a guard? No roll needed, since the cover is blown.

When the ruse starts to come apart, and the validity of the disguise is being questioned: that's when the Investigation checks start happening.

I'd have your disguised PC make an appropriate roll (let them get creative in plausible ways to make the disguise work!), to use as the DC for the opposing Investigation checks to beat, when the disguise is being created/applied.
Magical or no, a disguise is a disguise, and should work consistently throughout.

Of course, anybody with a way of seeing through illusions will just instantly know if someone is using Disguise Self for such a purpose.

For the OP: if you want to challenge them, or not wanting them to just use Disguise Self for everything.. You can have important passageways into a city, or the nobler district, be warded to nullify such magics automatically.
If you want to give them some advance warning of such a system, be sure to have an NPC try such a tavtic and be found out where the party sees it happening.
That way, they're fully aware of what is going on with the gate, and they can't whine at you for you just dumping that 'trap' on them oit of nowhere.

I hope this helps you. I worry that my tangential blathering doesn't really convey a whole lot of useful information sometimes.

[ZenBear]

I honestly don't see the problem here. They are roleplaying, that is the whole point behind the game.

Also this really only affects the rp aspect with other NPCs. While Illusions may certainly have an impact on combat, most of those spells require an opposed test of some sort, so I suppose you could design some NPCs that are stronger against those tests.

But again I ask, what really is the problem? If they are roleplaying and everyone is having fun then it should be fine. No big deal. Only worry about it if they start using it to harass other players.

There isn't any problem. I'm just curious to hear what experiences others have had with this combo. I don't know how it's going to affect my game, and I want to be prepared so I can make it as fun as possible.