Ninja subclass for rogue

[Bannan_mantis]

One of my players was going to play a ninja and I thought it would be fun to maybe create a home-brew subclass for him. This is my second time creating a home-brew subclass in DnD so I hope it works out well and please give any and all criticism you have I wanna make sure this guy feels like a ninja but also doesn't either do barely anything and become blind or clear out all the problems and kill every enemy on the first time. This subclass emphasises the ninja's skills from their tool and equipment use to their overall skill and stealth

Note: wanna keep this to rogue instead of monk

Fast Reflexes
At 3rd level, when a enemy allows you to take a opportunity attack you can do so at advantage. number of uses is equal to your dexterity modifier and you re gain all uses at the end of a long rest

Agile Climber
At 3rd level, you have advantage on any roll done while using climber's kit

Art of distraction
At 9th level, you can create smoke bombs and use them to assist in hiding and in escape. Over the course of a short rest you can expend 1 GP worth of materials to create 1d4 smoke bombs. Using them in bright light allows you to take the hide action and using them in dim light gives you advantage on your stealth roll

Instinctive Dodges
At 13th level, your cunning action also allows you to take the dodge action letting you take the dodge action as a bonus action

Silent Blade
At 17th level, if you use your sneak attack outside of combat you can count the attack roll as a natural 20. you can use this once per long rest

Please give any suggestions and if you feel I have written the abilities in a way that is hard to understand please offer a way that you wrote that you feel is easier to understand and feels more dungeons and dragons and please criticise this as much as you feel necessary

(also I am bad at naming abilities so if you feel something has a bad name and you have a better name for it also say)

[KittenMagician]

One of my players was going to play a ninja and I thought it would be fun to maybe create a home-brew subclass for him. This is my second time creating a home-brew subclass in DnD so I hope it works out well and please give any and all criticism you have I wanna make sure this guy feels like a ninja but also doesn't either do barely anything and become blind or clear out all the problems and kill every enemy on the first time. This subclass emphasises the ninja's skills from their tool and equipment use to their overall skill and stealth

Note: wanna keep this to rogue instead of monk

Fast Reflexes
At 3rd level, when a enemy allows you to take a opportunity attack you can do so at advantage. number of uses is equal to your dexterity modifier and you re gain all uses at the end of a long rest

Agile Climber
At 3rd level, you have advantage on any roll done while using climber's kit

Art of distraction
At 9th level, you can create smoke bombs and use them to assist in hiding and in escape. Over the course of a short rest you can expend 1 GP worth of materials to create 1d4 smoke bombs. Using them in bright light allows you to take the hide action and using them in dim light gives you advantage on your stealth roll

Instinctive Dodges
At 13th level, your cunning action also allows you to take the dodge action letting you take the dodge action as a bonus action

Silent Blade
At 17th level, if you use your sneak attack outside of combat you can count the attack roll as a natural 20. you can use this once per long rest

Please give any suggestions and if you feel I have written the abilities in a way that is hard to understand please offer a way that you wrote that you feel is easier to understand and feels more dungeons and dragons and please criticise this as much as you feel necessary

(also I am bad at naming abilities so if you feel something has a bad name and you have a better name for it also say)

for agile climber i would look at the wording of Second-Story Work in the thief archetype for rogue (similar)
as for names of the abilities i would go with
Strike with Precision (ninja training make you fast and accurate)
Deft climber (thought this one sounded a little better.)
Art of Distraction (this one was pretty good)
Honed Reflexes (ninja training makes quick movements to dodge second nature)
The Unseen Blade (ninja training makes you discreet, and combined with your precision, extremely deadly)


i also thought that maybe giving them a name followed by the word technique might sound interesting.
Wasp Sting Technique
Swift Monkey Technique
Clever Angler Technique
Disappearing Bat Technique (HAHAHAHA)
Swaying Leaf Technique
Mantis Strike Technique

also going with art of distraction give them all names like that

[Bannan_mantis]

okay taking into account here is the new naming for the abilities and I feel that the agile climber fits it better than the second story work as I would imagine ninjas to use equipment for moving around more seeing as they have their own types of climbing gear and equipment

Strike with Precision
At 3rd level, when a enemy allows you to take a opportunity attack you can do so at advantage. number of uses is equal to your dexterity modifier and you re gain all uses at the end of a long rest

Deft Climber
At 3rd level, you have advantage on any roll done while using climber's kit

Art of distraction
At 9th level, you can create smoke bombs and use them to assist in hiding and in escape. Over the course of a short rest you can expend 1 GP worth of materials to create 1d4 smoke bombs. Using them in bright light allows you to take the hide action and using them in dim light gives you advantage on your stealth roll

Honed Reflexes
At 13th level, your cunning action also allows you to take the dodge action letting you take the dodge action as a bonus action

The Unseen Sting (I decided to combine some of your names for this one and felt it worked quite well)
At 17th level, if you use your sneak attack outside of combat you can count the attack roll as a natural 20. you can use this once per long rest

[Composer99]

okay taking into account here is the new naming for the abilities and I feel that the agile climber fits it better than the second story work as I would imagine ninjas to use equipment for moving around more seeing as they have their own types of climbing gear and equipment

Strike with Precision
At 3rd level, when a enemy allows you to take a opportunity attack you can do so at advantage. number of uses is equal to your dexterity modifier and you re gain all uses at the end of a long rest

Deft Climber
At 3rd level, you have advantage on any roll done while using climber's kit

Art of distraction
At 9th level, you can create smoke bombs and use them to assist in hiding and in escape. Over the course of a short rest you can expend 1 GP worth of materials to create 1d4 smoke bombs. Using them in bright light allows you to take the hide action and using them in dim light gives you advantage on your stealth roll

Honed Reflexes
At 13th level, your cunning action also allows you to take the dodge action letting you take the dodge action as a bonus action

The Unseen Sting (I decided to combine some of your names for this one and felt it worked quite well)
At 17th level, if you use your sneak attack outside of combat you can count the attack roll as a natural 20. you can use this once per long rest

I like both the concepts of magical and non-magical ninja, so it's nice to see a rogue subclass ninja of the latter sort here.

Smoke bombs are a fantasy ninja mainstay, so it's good to see them here. Getting to Dodge as part of your cunning action is a powerful addition to your toolbox. Overall, then, the Art of Distraction and Honed Reflexes are solid features.

However, I think Deft Hands, Strike with Precision and Unseen Sting are all much too weak.

Let's look at the other rogue subclasses for comparison. I'll stick to their corresponding 3rd-level features and 17th-level features.

Arcane Trickster
At 3rd level, it gets spellcasting, to the tune of a few cantrips and two 1st-level spell slots. It also gets Mage Hand Legerdemain, for roguishly good functionality with that cantrip. At 17th level, it gets to steal spells of up to 3rd level (4th level spells starting at 19th level) and cast them as if they were its own, once per long rest.

Assassin
At 3rd level, the assassin gets advantage on creatures that haven't acted yet in combat, and any hit it scores on a surprised creature is a critical hit, with no rest-based limits on its use. (This feature is straight up better than Unseen Sting.) It also gets two free proficiencies. The assassin's 17th-level Death Strike is basically an upgrade on its 3rd-level combat feature, since it doubles the damage inflicted on a surprised creature (who is already being subject to a critical hit). Once again, though, there is no hard usage limit to the feature: it is limited only by how often the circumstance arises.

Inquisitive
At 3rd level the Inquisitive gets to "solo sneak attack" a creature by using its bonus action. It also gets special Perception utility. Its 17th-level feature is an upgrade of its 3rd-level Insightful Fighting, as it gets to deal extra damage to affected targets.

Mastermind
At 3rd level, the Mastermind gets to use the Help action (i.e. give other characters advantage on an attack roll) as a bonus action at a range of 30 feet. It also gets two tool proficiencies, a gaming set proficiency, two language proficiencies, and the ability to pass itself off as a native speaker of languages it knows. At 17th level, the Mastermind doesn't get much in the way of combat, but it does get the ultimate in deceptive abilities.

Scout
At 3rd level, the Scout gets to move up to half its speed as a reaction to enemies closing in, along with proficiency and expertise in both Nature and Survival. At 17th level, the Scout gets a free bonus action attack if it took the Attack action and the chance to use Sneak Attack a second time, so long as it attacks a different target.

Swashbuckler
The Swashbuckler is definitely the combat thief subclass: it gets two combat features at 3rd level, denying those it makes melee attacks against the chance to target it with opportunity attacks and the chance to Sneak Attack creatures it's "dueling" with. At 17th level, it gets to reroll a missed attack roll, with advantage to boot, once per short or long rest.

Thief
At 3rd level, the Thief gets the ability to use Cunning Action on Sleight of Hands, disarming traps or opening locks, or Use an Object. Second-Story Work, giving both the ability to move normally while climbing and improved running jumps, is straight up better than Deft Climber. At 17th level, as long as it isn't surprised, the Thief can take two turns during the first turn of any combat!

The Ninja presented here gets advantage on opportunity attacks up to 5 times in between long rests at 3rd level, advantage on ability checks using a climbing kit (which... doesn't really mean anything, because it's not a tool you need proficiency with, and its use does not require a check, at least not according to its description in the PHB), also at 3rd level, and once between long rests, "out of combat" (whatever that means), it can treat an attack roll as being a 20 at 17th level. Suffice to say, these need some buffing to be in line with what other rogues get.

Here's what I would suggest:

For Precision Strike (I think reversing the word order looks better on the screen and sounds better read aloud), you could probably do either of the following:
(1) Just straight up grant advantage on your opportunity attacks.
(2) Give you the chance to benefit from your Sneak Attack when you make an opportunity attack, even if you don't have advantage on the attack roll or an ally within 5 feet of you so long as you don't have disadvantage on the roll.

Given you only get one reaction each round, and several other rogue subclasses grant the means to use Sneak Attack more often at 3rd level, such a benefit would hardly be overpowered.

For Deft Climber, given that the climbing kit isn't a tool for which a proficiency exists, and given that climbing doesn't normally require a check except in special circumstances... you need to replace the feature. Maybe you can instead grant proficiency with a tool that ninja might use (disguise kit? poisoner's kit?) and expertise in Acrobatics and Athletics.

For Unseen Sting, I'm not sure what to suggest. It seems like you could mimic the Assassin... but that would amount to saying that an Assassin subclass is a better fit for a non-magical ninja.

Perhaps, since other rogue subclasses get upgrades to their 3rd-level features at 17th level, you could do something similar? Perhaps even a second reaction each round? As I said, I'm not sure.

[Bannan_mantis]

Okay hearing about your advice was very helpful to this, I am thankful for you giving your insight and these are the new abilities I have instead

Strike with precision
At 3rd level, you gain advantage on all opportunity attacks and you may add your sneak attack bonus to them.

Resourceful
At 3rd level, you gain proficiency with alchemist's supplies and brewer's supplies (I chose these tools as ninja's used varieties of powders to blind their enemies and agitate them as well (example is the metsubushi) so I am hoping those proficiencies work for that and I am trying to make them feel different to the other rogue subclasses and saw that not much of them gain proficiencies with those items)

Master of the shadows
At 3rd level, you gain expertise in stealth

the Unseen Sting
At 17th level, if you perform a sneak attack correctly you can take another stealth roll to stay hidden (hope that works and isn't too overpowered)

[Bannan_mantis]

after looking this over some more I realise that the new 17th level ability is not very good either, so I have created a new one similar to death strike but still a little different

Poison Sting
At the 17th level, when you attack and hit a creature that is surprised, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature gains the poison effect

I am possibly chaining that to this but I am uncertain as to if that would make it overpowered

Poison Sting
At the 17th level, when you attack and use your stealth attack bonus, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature gains the poison effect

[Stan]

My main concern is how often do opportunity attacks come up in most games? They're much harder to make happen than in 3e. In my games a player would expect to make <=1/day. Plus, whether they happen is largely out of the player's hands. Some feats make it better but a power shouldn't need a feat to function.

I feel like the first subclass ability in a subclass should help define the subclass, like the assassin ability. I also think it's best to avoid powers that can be used only at the DM's discretion.

How about having the ability get triggered by any attack that occurs during another character's turn? That includes OAs plus things that cause reactions so it will come up a bit more.

[GalacticAxekick]

A ninja who uses stealth or disguise to ambush, then weapons or poisons to kill is just a Rogue Assassin.

A ninja who uses stealth and agility to infiltrate, plunder, spy and sabotage is just a Rogue Thief.

I don't think you need to write a ninja subclass unless you're introducing something new. Smoke bombs are new, but why not make them available to anyone with the money to buy them or tools to make them? Advantage on opportunity attacks is new, but how is that ninja themed?

Basically what I'm asking is, why do you want to make a ninja subclass? What are you trying to add to the game?

[Bannan_mantis]

I understand what you are saying and I am making this subclass as to try and be a mixture of abilities from thief and assassin while also using some tools to assist them, I tried to implement that in certain ways and I feel that I have been able to get the killing and poisoning type of feeling with some abilities and the speed and sabotage ability with others and that is the main way it's different from the other subclasses being more in-between them instead of completely assassin (poison, murder etc.) or completely thief (spy, sabotage etc.) and that has also made me change the final ability of it to try and compensate the part where they use equipment and resourcefulness more with it about them using poison (also why I am changing the 3rd level ability)


Resourceful
At 3rd level, you gain proficiency with poisoner's kit and brewer's supplies

the Poison Sting
At the 17th level, when you attack and hit a creature that is surprised, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, the creature gains the poison effect

(and yeah I am staying with the less powerful one considering the other 3rd level ability)

[Bannan_mantis]

I have considered what you said so I have thought about this new 3rd level ability which makes it feel more like a ninja, using equipment over weapons and physical abilities. I hope this one works out better

Caltrops
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to use caltrops to assist in combat, you can use a action to cover them over 3 squares in combat and if any creature enters these squares they take 1d4 piercing damage. (once per encounter)

(two questions, should I change that to a bonus action and is that a okay ability? I think it's fine as it acts more as a block then straight up damage)

[Composer99]

Aren't caltrops already equipment that anyone can use in the PHB?

[Sir Brett Nortj]

Shouldn't ninjas get a warrior's attack bonus or better when attacking a single opponent, as they use 'cheap tricks?'

[GalacticAxekick]

Caltrops are indeed a PHB item thar anyone can buy and use.

Focusing the ninja on equipment is a unique direction, but the equipment probably shouldn't be a class feature. I'd probably write rules that make the Ninja better at using this equipment than others, as well as rules that help them craft equipment.

For example, a 3rd level feature could let you throw caltrops, smoke bombs, grappling hooks and similar escape tools as part of the Dash, Disengage and Hide actions. This works with Cunning Action to make the ninja very, very hard to chase.

Another 3rd level feature might let the ninja convert common, expendable items into escape tools. Ammunition becomes caltrops. Tinder, torches and other flammables become smoke bombs. This might come with a relevant tool proficiency.

A 9th level Rogue feature is rarely a combat feature, and ninjas aren't known for their social skills, so I'd make this something exploration based: "you gain the ability to move along vertical surfaces and across liquids on your turn without falling during the move," just like a 9th level monk

At 13th level I'd let the ninja apply poison to caltrops and smoke bombs, just like they would apply poison to a weapon.

At 17th level we can afford to get ridiculous. Maybe caltrops deal sneak attack damage if you use your action (rather than Cunning Action) to throw them. Maybe your movement after you drop a smoke bomb becomes line-of-sight teleportation. If you aren't Batman by level 17 you'll never be Batman, so let's make it happen.

[Bannan_mantis]

thinking about what you said know has helped me to reconsider the class options and I personally very much like the ideas you suggest, focusing more on the subtler things and I like that. I am going to be making the additions and changes to the subclasses now and I am not changing the 9th level ability to the monk ability like you suggested, I want this to be a ninja that uses equipment to make it different to just a shadow monk. But I must say your suggestions for the two 3rd, 13th and 17th level abilities are all things that I like and am going to take into consideration for this and I feel that I should change the 9th level ability as well, thank you a lot for this advice and I must say I think the turning everyday equipment into smoke bombs works very well.

(also, sorry I didn't realise you can already use caltrops)

One possible idea for the 3rd level ability is one where you first gain proficiency with improvised weapons, get the ability to use equipment with your cunning action and you get the choice of learning X number of equipment to be able to use and craft, X increases by 1 during level 9, 13, 17 or something like that, my question is what should X be? and is increasing the number 3 times a good amount

[GalacticAxekick]

Besides a poisoners kit, there's no need to give equipment proficiencies, let alone spread them across several levels. Everyone can already use caltrops, grappling hooks, and bombs.

The difficult part is acquiring them. If the party isnt rich and the ninja can't craft, the ninja wont be able to use its own features. I'd give all the crafting the ninja needs starting at 3rd level.

[Bannan_mantis]

Alright, if so how many items should the ninja be able to craft at level 3? considering that it won't increase taking a decently large amount to give the ninja options would be a good idea, what would be a good amount for them? maybe them being able to craft 6 different items would work?

[GalacticAxekick]

Can you think of six different items that the ninja will need to replace frequently? I can only think of three: caltrops, smoke bombs, and poisons.

[Bannan_mantis]

Taken into consideration what you said I can only really think of 4 different items so I see where you are coming from there. The ideas I have are of course the three you said including a type of blinding powder that the ninja kept in their sword sheathes, is four a good amount?

[GalacticAxekick]

Four is fine! What matters is that the player has meaningful choices to make. Even just two items would be fine in my opinion.

[Bannan_mantis]

Okay taking into consideration what you said I have 4 items for the ninja

Caltrops (from the PHB)

Smoke bomb (gives advantage on stealth checks and such)

Blinding powder (enemy takes saving throw, if he fails he is blinded till the end of your next turn, once per encounter)

Poison (yeah, this is obvious)

Firecracker (a distraction type item and could be used to confuse a enemy)

the level 3 ability will give the ninja proficiency in improvised weapons and let them be able to craft those items from everyday items,
this ability can kind of be used at the dm's digression but I would add some statistical info, say one arrow creates one caltrop

I am thinking that the level 9 ability maybe makes crafting those items cheaper making it where you can make 20 caltrops for what originally would only make you 10 or something like that

for the 13th level ability I am thinking that you could upgrade your already quite powerful equipment giving you these options

blinding smoke bomb (gives advantage on stealth checks and gives the enemy disadvantage on perception checks)

Poison caltrops (if a enemy steps on the caltrops and is damaged by them they need to succeed a saving throw or be poisoned)

Paralysing powder (since this is a once per encounter type of deal and if the enemy succeeds the saving throw this won't do anything so I think giving it the paralysis effect might be okay but I am not too sue)

Fireworks (similar to the firecracker but main difference is this can do some damage)

for the 17th level ability I have these ideas

disappearing smoke, when you use your smoke bomb you can teleport anywhere that is 30 feet away from your original position

sharpened caltrops, when a enemy steps on your caltrop and fail a saving throw they take 10d6 damage

Glass bomb, similar to the firework only this one does a lot more damage

(only ideas that I have thought of and not the finalised concept with some ideas not even being done, might only use one 17th level ability and will probably change some of the items)

[Bannan_mantis]

Okay I have now finished up with the actual wording of the abilities and know how to phrase them.

Resourceful
At 3rd level, you have proficiency with two tools of your choice, you gain proficiency with improvised weapons and you gain the ability to craft these items

Caltrops, you can create one bag of 20 caltrops for the cost of 2 SP worth of materials and you can change 10 arrows to make one bag of caltrops, 10 darts to make one bag of caltrops and one bag of ball bearings make one bag of caltrops, it takes you the course of a short rest to create one bag of caltrops

Smoke Bomb, you can create a smoke bomb for the cost of 1 SP worth of materials and you can change 4 used torches into one smoke bomb and you can change one tinder box into 3 smoke bombs, it takes you a short rest to create 3 smoke bombs. when used they give you a advantage on your stealth check

Skilled with Equipment
At 3rd level, you can use your cunning action to use equipment as well as disengage, dodge or hide

Cheap but Effective
At 9th level, the material cost of your equipment is halved and you can create double the amount of smoke bombs or caltrops over a short rest or you can create a bag of caltrops and 3 smoke bombs over the course of one short rest

Modified Equipment
At 13th level, your caltrops and smoke bombs have these extra effects. anyone who steps onto caltrops must make a saving throw equal to DC 12 or be knocked prone and when you use your smoke bomb anyone within 40 feet of the smoke bomb has disadvantage on perception checks.

Equipment Expertise
At 17th level, your caltrops and smoke bombs have these extra effects. you can use your sneak attack damage to anyone who has stepped on your caltrops and when you use your smoke bomb you can teleport to any place 50 feet away from your original position

(these are probably too overpowered but I am not the best at realising that so if people were to be so kind as to critique it that would be very appreciated and also I am bad at wording effects and naming them so if you have idea about how to word the effects better and the name also please say)

[JNAProductions]

Okay I have now finished up with the actual wording of the abilities and know how to phrase them.

Resourceful
At 3rd level, you have proficiency with two tools of your choice, you gain proficiency with improvised weapons and you gain the ability to craft these items

Caltrops, you can create one bag of 20 caltrops for the cost of 2 SP worth of materials and you can change 10 arrows to make one bag of caltrops, 10 darts to make one bag of caltrops and one bag of ball bearings make one bag of caltrops, it takes you the course of a short rest to create one bag of caltrops

Smoke Bomb, you can create a smoke bomb for the cost of 1 SP worth of materials and you can change 4 used torches into one smoke bomb and you can change one tinder box into 3 smoke bombs, it takes you a short rest to create 3 smoke bombs. when used they give you a advantage on your stealth check

Skilled with Equipment
At 3rd level, you can use your cunning action to use equipment as well as disengage, dodge or hide

Cheap but Effective
At 9th level, the material cost of your equipment is halved and you can create double the amount of smoke bombs or caltrops over a short rest or you can create a bag of caltrops and 3 smoke bombs over the course of one short rest

Modified Equipment
At 13th level, your caltrops and smoke bombs have these extra effects. anyone who steps onto caltrops must make a saving throw equal to DC 12 or be knocked prone and when you use your smoke bomb anyone within 40 feet of the smoke bomb has disadvantage on perception checks.

Equipment Expertise
At 17th level, your caltrops and smoke bombs have these extra effects. you can use your sneak attack damage to anyone who has stepped on your caltrops and when you use your smoke bomb you can teleport to any place 50 feet away from your original position

(these are probably too overpowered but I am not the best at realising that so if people were to be so kind as to critique it that would be very appreciated and also I am bad at wording effects and naming them so if you have idea about how to word the effects better and the name also please say)

Sneak Attack on every caltrop is OP-make it require a reaction and it might be okay.

I bolded something that jumped out at me-did you mean to make Cunning Action include Dodge? Normally it's Dash, Disengage, or Hide. Dodge is NOT on that list.

[Bannan_mantis]

first off a few things, yes you are correct I meant dash my apologise and second off for that ability I mean that if they have stepped on your caltrops on the turn they had before yours, when you attack them on your turn you can add your sneak attack damage my apologise I didn't word that correctly