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View Full Version : Pathfinder Advice (homebrew) - Balancing New Monk Only Style and Feats



Egeslean
2018-08-06, 06:28 AM
Hello everyone! So I've lurked around this site quite often, looking at various 3.x and Pathfinder threads on numerous topics, and ya'll seem quite helpful and knowledgeable. I'm hoping you guys can help with with a few feats I've come up with for monk's (built with Unchained Monks in mind, but should work with both versions).

Since the UMonk cannot use most of the monk archetypes, it cannot take MoMS (while other classes are free to do so), and the only other way to use two styles at once is pretty annoying and limiting ( 1) Martial Focus, 2) Weapon Style Mastery, (optional but useful 3) Combat Style Mastery), I wanted to make it a bit easier and more useful for a monk.

Martial Focus (Combat)
You have honed your skills with a group of related weapons.
Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +5.
Benefit(s): Choose one fighter weapon group. While wielding a weapon from this group with which you are proficient, you gain a +1 bonus on damage rolls.
Special: The Martial Focus feat counts as the weapon training class feature with the chosen fighter weapon group for the purpose of weapon mastery feat prerequisites and what weapons you can use with weapon mastery feats.

Weapon Style Mastery (Style, Weapon Mastery)
You can combine multiple fighting styles together.
Prerequisite(s): Any two style feats from different styles, base attack bonus +6, weapon training class feature with a melee weapon.
Benefit(s): Choose one weapon style (a style feat that lists Weapon Focus as a prerequisite) that you have.
You can have the chosen style and a second style active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but you can assume both the chosen weapon styleís stance and another styleís stance simultaneously using this action.
This ability doesnít stack with other abilities that allow you to have multiple styles active at the same time.
Normal: You can have only one style active at once.

Combat Style Master (Combat)
You shift between combat styles, combining them to increased effect.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, two or more style feats, base attack bonus +6 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: You can switch your style as a free action. At the start of combat, pick one of your styles. You start the combat in that style, even in the surprise round.
Normal: It takes a swift action to begin or switch your styles.


Style Adept
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, two or more style feats, Monk level 4th.
Benefits: You can switch your styles as a free action. At the start of combat, pick one of your styles. You start the combat in that style, even in a surprise round.
Normal: It takes a swift action to begin or switch styles.
Special: Only monks may select this feat, pseudo-monk or Ďas a monk of your levelí classes or abilities do not qualify for this feat. A monk may select this as a bonus feat at 6th level.

Style Mastery
Prerequisites: Style Adept, Monk level 6th.
Benefits: Choose one style that you have. You can have the chosen style and a second style active at once. At the start of combat, you start the combat in your chosen style and one other style, even in a surprise round.
Normal: You can only have one style active at once.
Special: At monk level 12th, you can have your chosen style and two other styles, for a total of three, active at once. Only monks may select this feat, pseudo-monk or Ďas a monk of your levelí classes or abilities do not qualify for this feat. A monk may select this as a bonus feat at 10th level.

As for the Style, it only affects unarmed monks, it doesn't increase damage die or add damage dice (in face it reduces damage die), but it does address another issue that unarmed monks face: The lack of criticals and flurry of misses.

Black-Foot Style
(Why this name? Because Black-footed cats are one of the most successful hunters, and I like them XD )
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Monk level 4th.
Benefit: While in this style, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls while using an unarmed strike. This bonus increases by +1 at Monk level 8th and every four Monk levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at Monk level 20th. You deal unarmed damage as if you were 2 Monk levels lower than you are.
Special: A monk may select this as a bonus feat. Only monks may select this feat, pseudo-monk or Ďas a monk of your levelí classes or abilities do not qualify for this feat.

Black-Foot Strikes
Prerequisites: Black-Foot Style, Weapon Focus (unarmed), Monk level 8th.
Benefits: When you successfully hit a foe on your turn with an unarmed strike, your next unarmed strike has its critical threat range increased by +1 (19-20). Each additional successful unarmed strike during your round further increases the threat range by +1, to a maximum threat range of 15-20. This increased threat range lasts until the beginning of your next turn. If one of your attacks misses, you lose any threat range increase from this feat until you make another successful hit against a foe, at which point it begins increasing as normal.
Special: If you have a feat or ability that increases the threat range of your unarmed strike, these do not stack, you use the highest bonus. A monk may select this as a bonus feat at 6th level. Only monks may select this feat, pseudo-monk or Ďas a monk of your levelí classes or abilities do not qualify for this feat.

Black-Foot Mastery
Prerequisites: Black-Foot Style, Black-Foot Strikes, Weapon Focus (unarmed), Monk level 12th.
Benefits: The critical multiplier for your unarmed strikes increases to x3. When you confirm a critical hit against an enemy or reduce an enemy to 0 or fewer hit points, immediately after the attack is resolved, you may move up to your speed or half of your fast movement bonus, whichever is higher. This movement does not require an additional action. If the critically hit enemy is not incapacitated or dead when the monk moves, it cannot make an attack of opportunity against the monk for this movement. This movement can be in any direction available, including upwards even if the monk does not have an ability or item that grants a fly speed.
Special: If you have a feat or ability that increases the critical multiplier of your unarmed strike, these abilities do not stack, you use the highest bonus. A monk may select this as a bonus feat at 10th level. Only monks may select this feat, pseudo-monk or Ďas a monk of your levelí classes or abilities do not qualify for this feat.


All other characters can take a 1 level dip into MoMS and gain Weapon Style Mastery (worth 1-2 feats). That's something the Unchained Monk cannot do (well, no monk can dip into another version of itself).

'I'd just allow an Unchained Monk to take the archetype'

I would to, but the problem with that is that it leaves them with a now useless class ability: Style Strike. Everyman Unchained Monk Archetypes does rework the MoMS to fix this though, so that is an option. I personally have issues with the archetype (any version of it).

Specifically you're giving up flurry and all other bonus feats to gain the ability to fuse up to 5 styles, BUT you don't gain any more bonus feats and to make a lot of those styles worth it, you have to invest 2-3 feat in each. So in the end you'll be spending upwards of 15 feats just to make the archetype really worth it. To me that is to high a price to give up Flurry and doesn't really seem balanced.

Which is why I made the two monk only feats which allow the fusing of up to 3, which would be a possible investment of 9 feats (which you aren't giving up anything besides those feat slots), and you get the free action style switching capstone ability of the MoMS archetype. 20th level for being able to switch styles as a free action is stupid late when the same thing could be gained from the Combat Style Master at level 5/6.

To me, the two monk only feats seem balanced enough.

The style feats I created don't give extra damage die like Jabbing Style or Boar Style and aren't as dynamic as Crane Style, I do want them to be balanced compared to the (good) Styles.

What about you guys? Is there confusing wording or parts that could be cleared up? Balance issues?

(I posted this in the 'Roleplaying' section originally, not realizing there was a specific Homebrew section. I tried to flag it to be moved, but apparently I can't because I don't have enough posts yet.)

Egeslean
2018-08-08, 10:10 PM
Bump.

Instead of Black Foot Strikes increasing the threat range by +1 each hit, would it be better if it was a static increase while in that Style based on your monk level.

EX: Increases critical threat range to 19-20. The treat range increases by +1 at monk level 12th, 16th, and 20th, for a maximum critical threat range of 16-20.

aimlessPolymath
2018-08-08, 10:59 PM
I'm not a fan generally of critical hit-focused abilities, which often seem somewhat high-roll focused. More specifically, I don't really regard the lack of criticals on the monk as an issue- they get a larger number of attacks at a lower crit rate, which should result in around the same number of expected crits-per-round as a regular character with a 19-20 range.

Black-Foot Style I dislike generally- comparable feats generally grant the equivalent of a +1 to attack or +2 to damage in specific circumstances, so this is far-and-away the best general style feat (Consider the combination of this + Power Attack to cancel the average damage penalty of 1-2 points per attack). I also dislike the idea of a "generalist" style, which this feat seems to be.

If monks have a problem with accuracy, I'd rather have extra attack bonus baked into the class in general than restrict it to a specific style.



Style Adept just seems like Combat Style Master with different prerequisites? Is there a particular build that requires access at Monk 4 over monk 5?

Style Mastery seems fine as a variant of Weapon Style Mastery.

Egeslean
2018-08-10, 07:25 AM
I'm not a fan generally of critical hit-focused abilities, which often seem somewhat high-roll focused. More specifically, I don't really regard the lack of criticals on the monk as an issue- they get a larger number of attacks at a lower crit rate, which should result in around the same number of expected crits-per-round as a regular character with a 19-20 range.

Yes and no. Most monks that I've seen and played with use weapons that have larger crit ranges (or less often, higher critical multipliers). Those monks still get the large number of attacks, with comparable damage to the unarmed monk up to level 10 or 12 (I can't remember atm). If they are also using Ascetic Style, they also gain their full Unarmed Damage with their weapons.


Black-Foot Style I dislike generally- comparable feats generally grant the equivalent of a +1 to attack or +2 to damage in specific circumstances, so this is far-and-away the best general style feat (Consider the combination of this + Power Attack to cancel the average damage penalty of 1-2 points per attack). I also dislike the idea of a "generalist" style, which this feat seems to be.

If monks have a problem with accuracy, I'd rather have extra attack bonus baked into the class in general than restrict it to a specific style.
I've always played a low-strength monk (because they're MAD as hell and I try to reduce that a bit), so I never use PA on them, but you bring up a good point. A line in Blackfoot Style could fix that issue, something like: 'Blackfoot Style and Power Attack cannot be used in the same round.'

I'd like to see it baked into the class as well, but *raises hands helplessly* Another option I thought of was to split the bonus to attack up among the three feats, or to have it start at +1 and gain +2 when Black-Foot Strikes was taken, and gain another +2 when Black-Foot Mastery was taken. But either of those options could allow for them to have the +5 at monk level 10.


Style Adept just seems like Combat Style Master with different prerequisites? Is there a particular build that requires access at Monk 4 over monk 5?

Style Mastery seems fine as a variant of Weapon Style Mastery.

Mostly because I like the idea of having it line up with the monk's first Ki Power, but it does make more sense at 5th, so I'm not opposed to changing it.

aimlessPolymath
2018-08-10, 03:22 PM
Have you considered cutting Style adept, and just having Combat Style Mastery as a prerequisite for whatever you rename Style Mastery into?

Re:Crits, I would make it a standalone feat that upgrades the base critical range of unarmed strikes to 19-20. That way, it stacks with Improved Critical and keen Amulets of Mighty Fists.

Re: Accuracy upgrade... There's nothing stopping you from giving Monks extra attack bonus as a class feature. I can't see the benefit in giving such a large accuracy bonus to a specific style- that just makes all other styles worse by comparison.

Egeslean
2018-08-11, 12:20 AM
Have you considered cutting Style adept, and just having Combat Style Mastery as a prerequisite for whatever you rename Style Mastery into?
I did, but I have an issue with it. Two 'Mastery' feats in the same feat chain is something that bugs me way too much to allow.


Re:Crits, I would make it a standalone feat that upgrades the base critical range of unarmed strikes to 19-20. That way, it stacks with Improved Critical and keen Amulets of Mighty Fists.
Unless it had a special stipulation in it to stack with either/both of those, it wouldn't stack per the rules (as I understand them). In addition, it would not allow a monk to use keen as they don't normally have slashing or piercing damage.


Re: Accuracy upgrade... There's nothing stopping you from giving Monks extra attack bonus as a class feature. I can't see the benefit in giving such a large accuracy bonus to a specific style- that just makes all other styles worse by comparison.
In my own version of a monk, I've done this, but one reason I wanted to create this Style is so that a DM may be willing to consider it in their game. Other styles tack on a bunch of extra damage, with every hit, which they can have for much of their career

aimlessPolymath
2018-08-11, 03:04 AM
I did, but I have an issue with it. Two 'Mastery' feats in the same feat chain is something that bugs me way too much to allow.
I was thinking of "Style Supremacy", myself. Alternatively, what about renaming the existing Combat Style Mastery instead?

Also: Style Mastery is currently monk-only. However, nonmonks can trivially gain its benefits with a 1-level dip. Thoughts on making it available to them as well?



Unless it had a special stipulation in it to stack with either/both of those, it wouldn't stack per the rules (as I understand them). In addition, it would not allow a monk to use keen as they don't normally have slashing or piercing damage.
Fair point- a clause is needed for stacking. On keen-ness: I've seen equivalent "impact" enchantments before. Also, monks can take styles for alternate damage types.



In my own version of a monk, I've done this, but one reason I wanted to create this Style is so that a DM may be willing to consider it in their game. Other styles tack on a bunch of extra damage, with every hit, which they can have for much of their career

Most other styles offer damage bonuses under the following conditions:
-Conditional on a particular class of attack- charge, against prone, with grapple, or on a specific action. Generally doesn't seem to give much more than a free attack's worth of damage (often in the form of a free attack- and note your comments re: flurry of misses)
-With expenditure of Elemental Fist
-Pummeling Style, which adds an average of about +2 points per attack (+1.75 for two hits, +7/3 for three hits, worse than +2 for four or more hits) on the first feat expenditure, or +4 per attack on the third feat.

Is there a style I'm missing or overlooking that breaks the general pattern of +1 attack/+2 damage per feat without major limits?

I think that a general buff to the monk that pretends to be a feat in order to "slip under the radar" is disingenuous.

Egeslean
2018-08-11, 07:16 AM
I was thinking of "Style Supremacy", myself. Alternatively, what about renaming the existing Combat Style Mastery instead?

Combat Style Master (Combat)
You shift between combat styles, combining them to increased effect.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, two or more style feats, base attack bonus +6 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: You can switch your style as a free action. At the start of combat, pick one of your styles. You start the combat in that style, even in the surprise round.
Normal: It takes a swift action to begin or switch your styles.
Special: A monk may select this as a bonus feat at 6th level. *New*

Style Supremacy (I do like the sound of this)
Prerequisites: Combat Style Mastery, Monk level 6th.
Benefits: Choose one style that you have. You can have the chosen style and a second style active at once. At the start of combat, you start the combat in your chosen style and one other style, even in a surprise round.
Normal: You can only have one style active at once.
Special: At monk level 12th, you can have your chosen style and two other styles, for a total of three, active at once. Only monks may select this feat, pseudo-monk or Ďas a monk of your levelí classes or abilities do not qualify for this feat. A monk may select this as a bonus feat at 10th level. Something like this?


Also: Style Mastery is currently monk-only. However, nonmonks can trivially gain its benefits with a 1-level dip. Thoughts on making it available to them as well?
I don't see how they could with a one level dip since they couldn't get it at 4th, 10th, or 20th level. Since it is keyed to Monk level not character level. So they would need to be 5th (or 6th) to pick it up normally or as a monk bonus feat.

The reason I want to keep it monk only, is because many other martials (I don't include any spellcasters in this), already have a way to boost their attack. Rogues are the closest I can think of that don't, but they aren't suppose to be up front combatants either, unlike the monk.


Fair point- a clause is needed for stacking. On keen-ness: I've seen equivalent "impact" enchantments before. Also, monks can take styles for alternate damage types.
I don't like needing a clause like that, but it could work. Impact doesn't work because unarmed strikes are light weapons. Unless you're meaning something else?

I hate AoMF and the fact that unarmed monks NEED it because Paizo decided to nerf gauntlets, cestus, brass knuckles. Also, putting an enchantment like keen on there that only works while you're using a particular style seems wasteful to me, especially if the monk in question uses multiple styles (since they basically have a useless enchantment on an item they need to stay relevant).


Most other styles offer damage bonuses under the following conditions:
-Conditional on a particular class of attack- charge, against prone, with grapple, or on a specific action. Generally doesn't seem to give much more than a free attack's worth of damage (often in the form of a free attack- and note your comments re: flurry of misses)
-With expenditure of Elemental Fist
-Pummeling Style, which adds an average of about +2 points per attack (+1.75 for two hits, +7/3 for three hits, worse than +2 for four or more hits) on the first feat expenditure, or +4 per attack on the third feat.

Is there a style I'm missing or overlooking that breaks the general pattern of +1 attack/+2 damage per feat without major limits?
I'm not great with number crunching, but I think you're overlooking Jabbing Style/Master (unarmed strikes). Two hits on a target do an extra 2d6 (5-9 damage per hit), three and it's increased to 4d6 for every hit after that (which I think comes out to something like 12-16 damage per hit).


I think that a general buff to the monk that pretends to be a feat in order to "slip under the radar" is disingenuous.

That's part of why I have it treat the monk's unarmed damage as if it were 2 levels lower, so it's as if they're trading damage die for accuracy. Would you think treating it as 4 levels lower would be better?

aimlessPolymath
2018-08-11, 12:09 PM
Whoops, said the wrong style earlier- meant Jabbing, but said Pummeling.
Jabbing Style only triggers once per round, dealing damage based on the total number of hits you've done. It's not a per-attack thing.
Jabbing Style adds 1d6(avg. 3.5) to your final damage dealt after you hit twice, or 2d6(avg. 7) after you hit three times. However, Weapon Specialization(unarmed strike) adds 2 to the damage of each attack, which is 4 damage after two hits, 6 damage after three, and scales better at four or more hits.
Jabbing Style Master doubles those benefits- analogous to taking Greater Weapon Specialization as well as Weapon Specialization. At three hits exactly, it beats out those two feats together by a total of 2 points of damage.

Edit: Actually, the full description of Jabbing Style seems to contradict the "summary"- it's 1d6 damage added to every hit after the first. If you hit three or more times, that works out to a moderate damage advantage.

My point re: Style Supremacy is that nonmonks can take a 1-level dip in MoMS to get its benefits. With that in mind, do you still think it should be a feat with Monk 6 requirements?

Re:clause, enchantments: Point taken. I've been convinced that the style feat is a good way to improve crit rate withoit making it an auto-pick.

Re:buff: First of all, you want the damage penalty to be 4 levels or a multiple of 4. Because monk damage progresses every 4 levels, any other number will have some levels where the monk is penalized more than others- at a 2 level penalty, a monk 7 is unaffected.

More generally, I'm not convinced that it's a significant penalty- or if it is, that the bonuses massively outweigh the penalties. You effectively lose one size category, representing 1 point of damage per attack at levels 4-11, 1.5 points at levels 12-15, or 2 points of damage at levels 16-20.
I would be happier with the feat if it were a static +2 attack with that penalty. That would make it competitive with Weapon Focus at levels 4-7, without heavily outscaling it later on- and Weapon Focus is already highly rated in the handbook I found.
If you find your attack bonus is still too low, I would talk to your GM instead of trying to fool them with overtuned feats.

Egeslean
2018-08-11, 01:54 PM
((I can post links now! Yay me! XD ))


Whoops, said the wrong style earlier- meant Jabbing, but said Pummeling.
Jabbing Style only triggers once per round, dealing damage based on the total number of hits you've done. It's not a per-attack thing.
Jabbing Style adds 1d6(avg. 3.5) to your final damage dealt after you hit twice, or 2d6(avg. 7) after you hit three times. However, Weapon Specialization(unarmed strike) adds 2 to the damage of each attack, which is 4 damage after two hits, 6 damage after three, and scales better at four or more hits.
Jabbing Style Master doubles those benefits- analogous to taking Greater Weapon Specialization as well as Weapon Specialization. At three hits exactly, it beats out those two feats together by a total of 2 points of damage.

Edit: Actually, the full description of Jabbing Style seems to contradict the "summary"- it's 1d6 damage added to every hit after the first. If you hit three or more times, that works out to a moderate damage advantage.
I should have been more clear: when I've been saying Jabbing Style, I meant the entire style (Jabbing Style/Dancer/Master). If you look here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t81c?Jabbing-StyleMaster-Clarification) (confirmed by Mark Seifter here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2swy9?Jabbing-Style-and-Jabbing-Master-posterrata#5)), if you have Jabbing Style (but not Master), then the second hit and every hit after does an additional 1d6 damage. If you have Jabbing Master, when you hit with two that second hit gains the 2d6 damage, if you hit with three that hit gains the 4d6 extra damage as well as every hit after that. So with Jabbing Master the extra damage would look like +0, +2d6, +4d6, +4d6, +4d6 for five hits in a round.

It's kind of a rediculous style, and I do not believe any other feat or three gains such damage increase.

A bit off topic regarding Jabbing Master: It has always bugged me that the fluff for the Jabbing Style feats mentions quick/fast strikes, but Jabbing Master requires Power Attack, which seems the opposite of quick strikes. I do not understand why PA is a prerequisite instead of something like Combat Reflexes, which seems more thematically appropriate.


My point re: Style Supremacy is that nonmonks can take a 1-level dip in MoMS to get its benefits. With that in mind, do you still think it should be a feat with Monk 6 requirements?
Hmm, you're right (I forgot I mentioned the same thing before). If it were dropped to a somewhat comparable level to the MoMS 1 level dip, for a straight monk, I feel as if it is almost wasted. I'd have to go through all the styles to make sure, but from memory, many beginning Style feats aren't able to be picked up until 4-6th level, so having MoMS at 1st or 2nd level (as a dip) or opening up Style Supremacy to a lower level, when other feats, which could benefit the monk more in the early levels, seems a bit pointless to me. This would probably not be as much of an issue if monks could pick Style feats as bonus feats, but they can't (even though many of them seem made for monks).


Re:buff: First of all, you want the damage penalty to be 4 levels or a multiple of 4. Because monk damage progresses every 4 levels, any other number will have some levels where the monk is penalized more than others- at a 2 level penalty, a monk 7 is unaffected.

More generally, I'm not convinced that it's a significant penalty- or if it is, that the bonuses massively outweigh the penalties. You effectively lose one size category, representing 1 point of damage per attack at levels 4-11, 1.5 points at levels 12-15, or 2 points of damage at levels 16-20.
I would be happier with the feat if it were a static +2 attack with that penalty. That would make it competitive with Weapon Focus at levels 4-7, without heavily outscaling it later on- and Weapon Focus is already highly rated in the handbook I found.

Good point. But on the flip side, it's their large damage die that even allows them to deal damage through many DR (since Greater Magic Fang does not allow this) and as I understand it (read online and my own experience) they still have issues dealing any significant damage through some DR (unless they're weapon monks, which is a whole different story).

Their only option is to use the AoMF and give it only enhancement bonuses and not gain any weapon properties. Or, they could take all three Ascetic Style feats and it would allow them to use their monk abilities and unarmed damage with ONE specific weapon.

So I think it has more weight than just the damage bit you mention.

aimlessPolymath
2018-08-11, 11:21 PM
((I can post links now! Yay me! XD ))


I should have been more clear: when I've been saying Jabbing Style, I meant the entire style (Jabbing Style/Dancer/Master). If you look here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t81c?Jabbing-StyleMaster-Clarification) (confirmed by Mark Seifter here (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2swy9?Jabbing-Style-and-Jabbing-Master-posterrata#5)), if you have Jabbing Style (but not Master), then the second hit and every hit after does an additional 1d6 damage. If you have Jabbing Master, when you hit with two that second hit gains the 2d6 damage, if you hit with three that hit gains the 4d6 extra damage as well as every hit after that. So with Jabbing Master the extra damage would look like +0, +2d6, +4d6, +4d6, +4d6 for five hits in a round.

It's kind of a rediculous style, and I do not believe any other feat or three gains such damage increase.

A bit off topic regarding Jabbing Master: It has always bugged me that the fluff for the Jabbing Style feats mentions quick/fast strikes, but Jabbing Master requires Power Attack, which seems the opposite of quick strikes. I do not understand why PA is a prerequisite instead of something like Combat Reflexes, which seems more thematically appropriate.
That's the most unbelievable errata I think I've ever seen. I mean... wow. Next to that, a +3-4 attack bonus in one feat makes a lot more sense.


Hmm, you're right (I forgot I mentioned the same thing before). If it were dropped to a somewhat comparable level to the MoMS 1 level dip, for a straight monk, I feel as if it is almost wasted. I'd have to go through all the styles to make sure, but from memory, many beginning Style feats aren't able to be picked up until 4-6th level, so having MoMS at 1st or 2nd level (as a dip) or opening up Style Supremacy to a lower level, when other feats, which could benefit the monk more in the early levels, seems a bit pointless to me. This would probably not be as much of an issue if monks could pick Style feats as bonus feats, but they can't (even though many of them seem made for monks).
I don't necessarily mean dropping it's prerequisites to a 1-level thing. What about Style Mastery, and +8 BAB or 7 monk levels, for example? .
Style feats as bonus feats was built into MoMS (another big draw), but you don't need to take this feat at level 1.

Actually, come to think of it, why not create a MoMS archetype for the Unchained monk?


Good point. But on the flip side, it's their large damage die that even allows them to deal damage through many DR (since Greater Magic Fang does not allow this) and as I understand it (read online and my own experience) they still have issues dealing any significant damage through some DR (unless they're weapon monks, which is a whole different story).

Their only option is to use the AoMF and give it only enhancement bonuses and not gain any weapon properties. Or, they could take all three Ascetic Style feats and it would allow them to use their monk abilities and unarmed damage with ONE specific weapon.

So I think it has more weight than just the damage bit you mention.

I think Ki Strike, damage-type-changers, and Pummeling Style are the main tools to deal with DR. And the numbers do work out to 1-2 points per attack as a penalty- that's regardless of before or after DR applies. The monk handbook I found rates Strength as its most important stat (and three others right behind), which is another way to deal with it. In Unchained, you also have Shattering Strike and Hammerblow.