View Full Version : Trying to keep the party from fracturing

2018-08-08, 07:37 PM
OK so our party is already kinda mix matched due to having new players and a big grab bag mix of alignments. Two chaotic goods, one true neutral, two chaotic neutrals, and one Lawful evil.

Oddly to start all the IC interactions were fairly amicable and rather friendly except for the one chaoticl good not trusting the lawful evil (He's a kobold, She's a half elf she's got her eye on him.) Fast forward a few months of in game time. So far the kobolds run off after dragons to say hi, tried to sabotage us on a quest out of things like I was curious and flat out tried to kill a client we were guarding to hide the fact that he tried to mind control him. The real kicker is that he purposefully and knowing it would happen blasted a part member with an aoe spell that knocked them unconscious. Our Half elf (me) is done with this and is icly going to push to kick him out of our party next session. Now oocly I think he's hilarious and he is a very well done character. But about half the party is sure to side with the them and half with me. How do we handle this without killing the campaign? Suggestions?

Koo Rehtorb
2018-08-08, 07:39 PM
If you want to avoid tension, talk about it OOC before following through IC.

2018-08-08, 07:44 PM
Yeah thats gonna be step one. I'm just looking for ideas if I have to go through with it to be honest.

2018-08-08, 07:47 PM
have an ooc discussion; see if you can come to a consensus that something has to change and that you want to agree to let something make that change happen. Then use an in-game excuse to force the change you agree on ooc. (like helm of opposite alignment or something)

it's not reconcilable ic; really problems like this are why session 0's are important to make sure the party can all work together. but sadly it's too late for that now.

a character sabotaging the party will be kicked out of the group. that's how groups work. even evil groups, anyone sabotaging the group will get kicked.

2018-08-08, 09:53 PM
Tenser's Neutron Bomb.

New characters, new country, story opener is about investigating the complete obliteration of half a continent.

Darth Ultron
2018-08-08, 11:11 PM
It seems to me your game is already fractured.

If you really want to keep the game together, YOU could just roll over and take it. The best way to keep everyone happy is for you to be unhappy.

The other players, and i guess the DM, are all having fun right? And your going to say ''their" fun is wrong?

I blame a lot of this on your DM...it's one of the big jobs of the DM to stop jerks from disrupting the game.

2018-08-09, 04:07 AM
I think that there's a chance that some people might be misinterpreting what you see as the actual problem here. The way I see it you could be asking for help with one of two different problems here:

1. It's a table based problem. You see this player as being "that guy" and his characters evilness is causing too many problems between the actual players sitting at the table rolling dice. Basically you've reached the point where your belkar needs to have a pukeing spirit meeting with the cool cat dude or go.


2. The. Problem is entirely in universe. You're ok with him playing his character this way. You see it as appropriate levels of conflict, al la belkar chasing elan for xp, someone give a facepalm another sighs loudly and hijinks ensues but everyone is having fun. But your character is still left with no reason in universe not to confront them about their actions and this will probably lead to a marvel civil war esq breakup.

From your original post i think its number two, he hurt you but you got better and it made it more dramatic or funny, but I could be wrong and it would help if you clarified. Assuming it's number twwo I'm gonna do some spitballing.

1. Find sone redeeming trait ir even single action of his to focus on. Ex: maybe you were right about to confront him but as you were walking up to him you were pickpocketed and he caught them and got your suff back. Not something that changes his character entirely but something that makes you reconsider just long enough to get through the next dungeon.

2. Maybe there's some small common ground you can find that will help you get along. Like maybe he's the only decent chess player you can find or you both read the same books and tart a mini book club inbetween fights.

3. The situationally forced makeup. Maybe you two fall down a trap door and have to work together or die and you come out of it with a new understanding. Or maybe you get locked in the same cell after that last bar fight and now you have to interact calmly until your released, then you accidentally become tolerable to each other.

4. Decide you have practical reasons to keep them around. See Roy talking to the deva in the clouds.

5. If all else fails use the marvel method. (This next bit could be vaguely SPOILERy) have a big fight where noone really gets hurt then be forced to work together anyways because a bigger threat forces you too.

Obviously these need at the very least both players and possibly the gm to agree to work on them and if their is an actual problem at the table that needs to be handled first. You might use one or more of the ideas i gave or find something completely different but if your characters are in a party long enough there should naturally be some times when they work together and make shared experiences to bond over. Even evil characters have friends. It takes some work but the evil character in the group can lead to some great character moments and loads of fun shenanigans.

2018-08-09, 01:47 PM
Role play.

Contracts from the neutrals. Should control this. Put it in writing and have him sign in caracter.

2018-08-09, 02:27 PM
Definitely talk about it OOC first, but it really sounds like the backstabbing character should leave the party, maybe to return as a villain later.

That doesn't mean the player gets kicked out! He just makes a new PC - at the same level, because this isn't a punishment, it's just the natural result of IC action.

Now if the player is really attached to that character, maybe they can have a sudden and demonstrable change of heart and the rest of the party forgives them. Easier if you set it up OOC. But otherwise, don't be afraid to just have that character be replaced - change is not a bad thing.

2018-08-09, 03:24 PM
Chat with the player of the character, and perhaps agree on an ultimatum your character could present to theirs that their character would reasonably accept and yours would be happy with. If you enjoy the shenanigans (which, in all honesty, read as more disruptive than anything to me, but if you're okay with that more power to you), then they can be maintained as the kobold character keeps walking on the very edge of the line of acceptability (to your character).

Just talk out of character first. I'm sure there are IC reasons to keep the kobold around, with restrictions placed on their conduct, regardless of how difficult things are. This is D&D or something, right? Well, there are spells that can be used to modify a character's behavior with the player's explicit consent in the event that a verbal promise isn't sufficient.

2018-08-09, 03:42 PM
Honestly I think this is the perfect storm, and if you have a DM who's worth their weight in dice this could be fun.

I'm talking as a DM, and player:

I'm of a mind that you should, without hesitation, look at your party and talk about going full civil war on each other. Now, the kicker here, you don't necessarily have to involve the DM with the decision. Pick your sides, have a knock down, drag out fight, PvP the entire thing out, go bonkers with it. However, before you even sit down at the table, make sure all the players are in agreement about a resolution. Whether it be some players get new character, some players find redeeming qualities in others, or you reach a moment where the BBEG becomes a real problem and your rumble royal is put on hold.

As a player, if this is done in good faith, I think it would be a blast. As a Dm, if I'm involved in the process, I will be able to keep the pace of the situation and work the timing for when to wrap things up. As a DM, if I'm not involved, I'll be completely thrown by this, and I am rarely thrown by things...

2018-08-09, 10:17 PM
Make the DM introduce a very urgent plot hook that requires killing things immediately. PCs tend to get along when they're murderhoboing things.

Kaptin Keen
2018-08-10, 01:14 AM
I mean ... necessity is the mother of invention, right? You just need characters who don't get along to realize they need each other. Also maybe OOC to agree what any IC assassination attempts are going to comically fail somehow.

2018-08-13, 12:15 PM
Kick that player out. Regardless of how good they may be at rping the character there is never a reason to attack another party member unless they have agreed to take a hit for some reason. Further using alignment choices is never an escuss for anything like this.

2018-08-13, 01:24 PM
Sounds like you want to find a reason to continue to adventure together since you OoC enjoy the evil little bugger.

If so, great -- players wanting to play together is really the fundamental glue binding the PCs.

I'd suggest brainstorming with the LE kobold to figure out a reason why your PCs would tolerate each other.

Some random brainstorming:

- One of them owes the other a favor, and the promised payment can only happen after a significant amount of time passes (because of the logistics of the favor / promise / payment).

- They're from the same family (probably involving adoption and/or dragons), or have a mentor in common, or some other authority figure who commanded them to not slit each others' throats.

- One of them might be the key to a LE / CG prophecy which the other wants to bring to fruition.

- Each of them has half a tattoo. Only by presenting both halves at some future date can they claim a treasure or reward from some horribly powerful 3rd party. They're not the only people with these tattoos, so there's some urgency about getting to the reward claiming venue.

- They share a soul. If one dies, the other loses a level or two permanently.

- There's someone else they want dead much more than each other, so that revenge has to happen before backstabbing will occur.

2018-09-06, 03:04 AM
I agree with what has been said above, in my opinion players should always play "as a team", no matter their alignment and the motivations of their character.
RPG is a game first and foremost and it has to be fun for everyone otherwise it's a waste of time.

I have played before with people who enjoyed nothing more than stealing from other players or putting them in difficult situations just because it was "what their character would do".
As a player, I avoid playing with that kind of players, as a DM, I tell them to stop or I kick them out :smallbiggrin:

2018-09-06, 07:40 AM
You seem to have the ooc covered. Talk to each other and so on.

I would suggest having the GM come up with a reason to force you to work together, it seems that you are able to if necessary.
Maybe the world is ending, in a way that neither of you want.
Or maybe a mob boss gains power over you and threatens to kill you and your families.
Its a bit heavy handed but if thats what it takes...

2018-09-07, 04:20 AM
Have someone (questgiving NPC or one intent on redeeming an evil character) put a geas on the Kobold. That way he can grump and whine about everything, but he'll still cooperate.

2018-09-07, 05:25 AM
I agree with what has been said above, in my opinion players should always play "as a team", no matter their alignment and the motivations of their character.
RPG is a game first and foremost and it has to be fun for everyone otherwise it's a waste of time.

I have played before with people who enjoyed nothing more than stealing from other players or putting them in difficult situations just because it was "what their character would do".
As a player, I avoid playing with that kind of players, as a DM, I tell them to stop or I kick them out :smallbiggrin:

I totally agree here. If your character is a jerk towards mine because that's 'what the character would do' then my character, fed up with this, kicks the other character out because that's 'what my character would do'. One should not be higher than the other and if one player is allowed to play that way, so is the other.

So best is to talk OOC and try to come up with a solution you can both live with. If that doesn't work, you can also let him take the responsibilities of his actions. I know this requires the DM to be onboard, but if he kills for instance an important member of a city council and the city guards come after him, don't defend him. Let him be taken and convicted.

And the contract, signed by the character, is also an option, since he's Lawful.

I must admit I've not seen this happen to this level in my group. But we always have a session 0 to create characters and we also often have alignment restrictions. That makes these kind of things a lot less frequent and if they happen, it's mostly just some pranks or something.

2018-09-19, 07:45 AM
Going to echo a few things here.
1) confirm the strife is purely in character. Confirm that any resolution mechanics are ooc-approved.
2) talk to the gm, and convey how your ooc talks went, and what it may mean to the party/campaign

In almost every case, mixed alignments end up with this kind of issue. The question is: was there a game plan to address this in session 0? (Hint, there should have been). In most cases, the evil player eventually loses their pc-status because evil does what it does and good does what it does.

It appears, however, there's an interesting dynamic in the party going on. If the larger storyline supports it, taking the time to explore that group dynamic may be fun and worthwhile. Furthermore, if it means the entire group ends up rolling new characters, some to support the kobold, some to support the half-elf, and their adventures would continue according to DM machinations (and how you resolved the break-up), it would be interesting to see how each parry thwarts the other (either intentionally or not).

2018-09-19, 08:29 AM
Generally everyone needs to interpret their characters such that they do not attack each other and generally stick together, unless your campaign has a rotating cast.

I suggest proposing the conflict OOC first with the GM. If the party is going to fracture some back up characters need to be prepped.

2018-09-19, 03:02 PM
I'd probably just kill him and get it over with

2018-09-20, 08:17 AM
That's just insane bro