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View Full Version : Tell me more of these, Gurps



Belteshazzar
2007-09-12, 10:24 PM
Seriously all I have know is that it supposed to be some kind of point based universal system. I had been playing DnD modeled computer games (Angaband, ToME, Icewind Dale) long before I ever played tabletop. But this idea of a flexible, point based, universal system intrigues me. Give me an idea of what it is all about. Is combat complex or simple, are there truely a great number of perks and disadvantages, what of stats are they different or basically the same?

Lord Iames Osari
2007-09-12, 10:35 PM
In GURPS, you have four basic attributes.

Strength (ST)
Dexterity (DX)
Intelligence (IQ)
Health (HT)

There truly are a great number of advantages and disadvantages - think of them as being like feats and flaws, respectively, but in a situation where Dodge doesn't cost the same as a more useful feat, like Improved Initiative.

Combat is relatively simple; characters have active defenses - Dodge, Parry, Block - and passive defenses - Padding and Damage Resistance, which get compared to their enemies' weapon skill rolls. That's another thing about GURPS - everything is skill-based. You can be a crack shot with a rifle, and not know your ass from your elbow when it comes to swordfighting.

One thing I will say, though, is that combat is lethal. I mean, really. If you take a gunshot and your GM is going by the rules, you are dead.

Dausuul
2007-09-12, 10:50 PM
Seriously all I have know is that it supposed to be some kind of point based universal system. I had been playing DnD modeled computer games (Angaband, ToME, Icewind Dale) long before I ever played tabletop. But this idea of a flexible, point based, universal system intrigues me. Give me an idea of what it is all about. Is combat complex or simple, are there truely a great number of perks and disadvantages, what of stats are they different or basically the same?

Well, GURPS is in its fourth edition now, and I haven't played since the third. But here's what I remember from my time playing it.

The basic system is pretty easy to grasp. GURPS was one of the early adopters of the concept of a universal mechanic; in this case, the "3d6 versus target number" roll. You have a target number for whatever you're trying to do, which is usually between 3 and 18. Roll 3d6. If you get less than or equal to the target number, you succeed. If you go over the target number, you fail. Certain values (depending on the target number) are critical successes or failures.

The system is point-based. It is, in fact, the ultimate in point-based systems; GURPS is fanatical about slapping a character point value on absolutely everything that might affect gameplay, and those character points all come out of the same pool no matter what you're buying. This means you can create almost any character you feel like making, if your GM allows it and you have enough points. Want to play a cyborg necromancer in the Wild West circa 10,000 BC? GURPS has you covered. (Of course, this does mean that character creation is something of an epic journey.)

You have four stats: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Health. You can buy these up with character points, or get extra points for taking below-average scores. Buying up stats is expensive and quickly reaches diminishing returns.

The vast majority of your target numbers are defined by your skills. Each skill is driven by a certain stat, with the vast majority being driven either by Intelligence or Dexterity. As with stats, you can spend character points to buy up your skills; your level in a skill is based off the relevant stat, so if your Intelligence somehow goes up by 1, all your mental skills likewise go up by 1. Again, investing in skills leads to diminishing returns after a while.

When you use a skill, you roll 3d6 with your skill level as the target number. In some cases, of course, you'll have a bonus or a penalty, depending on the difficulty of the task. An unmodified roll is a "typical" task for that skill.

There are more advantages and disadvantages than you can shake a giant rules compendium at. Like I said... cyborg necromancer in the Wild West twelve thousand years ago. I'm not kidding. At all.

Combat is pretty straightforward. You have combat skills, which you use for attack, and your opponent has some basic defenses to counter your attacks. Defense values are usually much lower than attack values; a typical warrior might have an attack skill of 13 to 15, but defenses of only 7 or 8. You roll your attack skill. If you succeed, you delivered an accurate and potentially telling blow, but you might be blocked, dodged, or parried; your opponent chooses a defense and rolls it. If she succeeds, your attack fails. If she fails, you hit. Roll for damage, with optional rules for hit location.

GURPS is geared toward horizontal advancement more than vertical. The steep level of diminishing returns on skills and stats means it's seldom worthwhile to keep buying them up to astronomical levels. Instead, you pick up new skills and expand the breadth of your knowledge. This is a major difference from level-based games like D&D, in which your skill set is more or less fixed at the start and you just get better and better at the same things. GURPS lends itself to well-rounded characters with realistic limits on their abilities, where D&D favors cinematic heroes. This is not to criticize either game, it's just a difference in style that you should be aware of.

Because everything in GURPS runs off a single character point mechanic, the game does have a certain amount of min-maxing going on. It's rare to see a character who isn't at or near the disadvantage cap (standard rules limit you to 40 points of disadvantages, although you can instead take a single disadvantage of any point value). On the other hand, the increasing cost of buying up a single skill or stat keeps it from getting too far out of hand.

Overall, I like GURPS for modern and futuristic settings, and D&D for fantasy ones.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-09-12, 10:57 PM
These posters pretty much sum GURPS up:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/LordIames/Motivators/Other%20Motivators/GURPS.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/LordIames/Motivators/Other%20Motivators/muffin.jpg

horseboy
2007-09-12, 11:16 PM
These posters pretty much sum GURPS up:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/LordIames/Motivators/Other%20Motivators/GURPS.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k177/LordIames/Motivators/Other%20Motivators/muffin.jpg

Now those were funny!

Mewtarthio
2007-09-12, 11:24 PM
You could look at the free download GURPS Lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/) if you're the kind of person who likes reading rules to get a feel for the system. I must say, I've always been intrigued by GURPS...

Lord Iames Osari
2007-09-12, 11:24 PM
I can't take credit for making them, I just yoinked them for that reason.

Ralfarius
2007-09-12, 11:59 PM
Being that it hasn't been mentioned yet, GURPS literally stands for Generic Universal Role Playing System. As far as I understand, it was a placeholder name till they figured out something better... Which they never did.

Once an edition of GURPS has been established, there are be hundreds upon hundreds of sourcebooks available. The key here is that you only need to buy any one prevalent to what kind of campaign you want to play, from Lovecraftian Horror to Cyberpunk, Space Opera to "Cave Men Hitting Each Other With Rocks" and beyond.

One of my favourites was GURPS Supers. Rules for building super heroes for teams ranging in power from X-Men (You cam afford about one power and rely on everyone else) to upper echelons of the Justice League (Super Man or a ridiculously skillful super-normal like Batman). Fun times.

TheOOB
2007-09-13, 12:04 AM
I've toyed around with GURPS a little, it's versitlity is amazing, but I often find it difficult to make it work well for any one particular type of game without a lot of work. Boundless customization comes at a price I suppose.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-13, 04:18 AM
I've always found it awkward in GURPS that things like perception are handled by a wide variety of perks and flaws, rather than simply by a stat. Because of the plethora of skills and traits, character creation is a lengthy, complex task.

While it is quite realistic, in my opinion it has way too many rules, many of which work slightly differently than other ones. Yes, it has a rule for every situation, but that implies that you have a lot of them memorized, or need to know where to look them up. Although it doubtless depends on the group, I've seen it slow a combat down more than D&D battlemaps do.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-09-13, 04:20 AM
I've always found it awkward in GURPS that things like perception are handled by a wide variety of perks and flaws, rather than simply by a stat. Because of the plethora of skills and traits, character creation is a lengthy, complex task.

While it is quite realistic, in my opinion it has way too many rules, many of which work slightly differently than other ones. Yes, it has a rule for every situation, but that implies that you have a lot of them memorized, or need to know where to look them up. Although it doubtless depends on the group, I've seen it slow a combat down more than D&D battlemaps do.

You may be thinking of an earlier edition. In GURPS 4th, there is one stat, Perception, which is based on your IQ, but also independent of it.

On the whole, though, you make a good point. It does have a lot of rules, and that can slow down gameplay.

Diego
2007-09-13, 10:16 AM
You may be thinking of an earlier edition. In GURPS 4th, there is one stat, Perception, which is based on your IQ, but also independent of it.

On the whole, though, you make a good point. It does have a lot of rules, and that can slow down gameplay.

4th and 3rd work equivalently. Perception is (by default) based off of IQ. It can be bought up (or down, in 4th) independently with Alertness/Perception. Rolls for individual senses can be bought up or down if you want even finer grained control.

Combat takes a while, but is extremely detailed (called shots, modeling individual parries and attacks rather than the more abstracted DnD turn). I've always felt that the magic rules were a bit clunky, but the introduction of super powers into the core book with the advent of 4th edition makes handling certain types of characters much easier. (e.g. A ranger with a speech impediment who has beast specific magic that is not conciously controlled, but manifests as the ability to speak with birds, and to see through his "familiar's" eyes, etc.)

GURPS is a tough system to GM out of the box, but once the GM and players all have some experience with it, it can really be made to shine.

Also, my personal experience has been that GURPS does "low fantasy" very well, but I never particularly liked it for modern/supers/future.

Also - its worth noting that characters built on the standard point allotments (100 in 3rd ed, 150 in 4th) tend to be more powerful than your traditional 1st level character. (say, equivalent to maybe 3rd or 4th level?). However, advancement is slower and more granular, barring significant input from the DM - the usual rate of advancement would be 2-5 character points per session, and a 5th level character might well be built from 250 points (20 sessions to gain 1-2 levels). However, because you pick up abilities/skills individually, you tend to make many small steps rather than the huge upgrades and new class abilities that DnD uses.

I don't know if it's helpful, but here is a rough copy of a character I made recently (took me approximately an hour to hone down the concept and features I wanted in my mind, and about half an hour handling the rules components of it)
Flint Cragshaw
(20) ST 12
(0) DX 10
(60) IQ 13
(10) HT 12
----
90
(-5) Addiction: Tobacco
(-15) Greed (12)
(-10) Gluttony (9)
(-5) Stubborn
(-5) Sense of Duty: Family
----
50
(-1) Overweight
(-1) Phlegmatic
(-1) Talks frequenty to his mule
(-1) Wants to write a comprehensive botanical guide
(-1) Likes children, always brings gifts when returning home
----
45
(35) Dwarf (Template, B261)
- Includes +1 HT, Reduced running speed, long lifespan, and some other stuff I forget off the top of my head.
(5) Resistant to Poison (+3)
(4) Acute Taste/Smell +2
(4) Hard to Subdue +2 (bonus to rolls to avoid knockout)
(5) Contact Group: Clients/Suppliers: Business, Skill 12, Somewhat
Reliable, 9 or less
(2) Claim to Hospitality:Family
(10) Comfortable Wealth
----
(2) Staff 10
(2) Crossbow 11
(1) Brawling 10
(4) Connosieur (Tobaccco) 14
(1) Finance 11
(4) Merchant 14
(2) Diplomacy 12
(1) Fast Talk 12
(1) Farming 12
(1) Savoir Faire 13
(1) Packing 12
(1) Animal Handling (Equine) 12
(2) Poisons 12
(4) Pharmacy (Herbal) 13
(12) Biology (Botany) 13(15)
(1) Carousing 12

-----------------
He is a traveling tobacco merchant, who is also a gentleman scholar in
the field of botany. He has aspirations of writing the comprehensive
guide to plant species of _(appropriate nation/geographical area)_. In
a classic fantasy setting, he would sell his wares directly, in a more
steampunk setting he'd work as an agent for a family business, selling
small quantities of leaf to merchants to start them while putting them
in contact with the warehouse from whom they can order larger
supplies. He is given to enjoying "good life" and is perhaps overly
fond of coin, but has been known to reroute his travels chasing down
some interesting plant specimen that he has heard of.

He is well liked by his family (whether they are in the tobacco
business or not) and attempts to stop by the home of his sister and
brother in law at least once a year. He is very fond of his nephew and
niece and brings them trinkets and baubles from his travels. While
staying with them, he transcribes his journal so that there is a safe
copy of the notes for his book in case something should happen to the
version he keeps with him.