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Skjaldbakka
2007-09-12, 10:42 PM
I'm looking for a good 1st level spell to take. I was going to take Enlarge Person, but it turns out the party fighter is a 2WF with a 15 dex, so he loses 2WF if I hit him with it. The other party members are a Archery Ranger and a Finessing Scout, so Enlarge Person pretty much doesn't help. I am wanting to focus on enchantment and necromancy, but I would like to have a good party buff for fights when neither of those are applicable.

My current spell list:

0 level spells which aren't significant

1st level: Ray of Enfeeblement, Charm Person, Parching Touch
2nd Level: False Life (maybe, I need the HPs pretty badly with my 8 con)

So far we have had one combat, in which I had to send my viper familiar into combat with a parching touch spell.

I'm currently level 4, so I can swap out one of my level 1s for something else, and I haven't settled on false life yet.

JackMage666
2007-09-12, 10:47 PM
Mage Armor's still decent for a bit, until you can get Twighlight Mithral Shirt.

Shield's also good for defense, as +4 Shield AC is pretty decent.

That should help your low Con a bit, since you'll get hit less.

Skjaldbakka
2007-09-12, 10:51 PM
I have an AC of 12. I'm not sure that a +4 is more useful than the 1d6+2 strength penalty I can hit an advancing meleer with. I should probably note that I have gloves of arrow snaring, so I'm not very worried about ranged attackers.

JackMage666
2007-09-12, 10:51 PM
But the durations are longer, so you can buff yourself pre-fight.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-12, 10:54 PM
You're talking about a Sorcerer then?

Grease. Always Grease. A caster without Grease is like a man without a shoe: Mildly inconvenienced.

Skjaldbakka
2007-09-12, 10:58 PM
Yes, sorcerer. As a man currently without a shoe, I would like to say, for the record- it is significantly more than an inconvenience.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-12, 11:00 PM
Hmm, first level buffs... that aren't self-only...

Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium) is a 1st level immediate action transmutation spell that boosts either your or an ally's initiative by 5 at the start of a fight. This is awesome.

Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Shield, Protection from X, and so forth are all great for keeping you (or in some cases, your allies) very much more alive than they otherwise would be.

Not quite sure why you're so interested in *buffs* though. There's not a lot of really great ones at level 1 except for self-only ones, and *DE*buffs.

I do not recommend false life, since it doesn't really give you a whole lot of hp, and you don't want to be stuck casting it 3 or 4 times per day. Additionally, I think you should want things that stop you from getting hit to begin with (like, say, Stay The Hand (PHB II) enchantment: IMMEDIATE action level 2 spell that prevents an enemy from attacking)

So yeah. Check out Stay the Hand. It's an immediate action, and it makes it so that people can't hurt you. And seems to naturally follow your theme. Cool. Not *fantastic* like Web or Grease or Glitterdust or anything, but cool. Of course at 3rd level, there's Hesitate, which *is* fantastic.

Edit:


I have an AC of 12. I'm not sure that a +4 is more useful than the 1d6+2 strength penalty I can hit an advancing meleer with. I should probably note that I have gloves of arrow snaring, so I'm not very worried about ranged attackers.

YOW! You'd better get something to protect yourself, and not just 1d6+2 strength penalties! Low AC, low hp, no protective spells? You're just askin' for it, really. Well, this makes Stay the Hand an attractive choice, because people will waste their action if they attack you and miss a will save.

Douglas
2007-09-12, 11:13 PM
Try Glitterdust for your level 2 spell. Save-or-blinded in an AoE is nasty even when you don't have an invisible enemy to strip concealment from.

TheOOB
2007-09-12, 11:38 PM
You need mage armor in a bad way. With 12 AC most attacks aimed your way will hit you, and a sorc doesn't have enough Hp to get hit often. It's true that ray of enfeeblement will lower your opponents offensive abilities, but it only targets one opponent, and it's duration is short. Mage armor lasts hours, even at low levels, and will greatly reduce the chance you will be hit.

Truth be told, while ray of enfeeblement and false life are both great spells, they are better when you gain a few more spell levels and your low level spells are primarily used for their utility. Sorcerer/Wizards are about control, and you have no controlling spells, no sleep, no grease, no color spray, no glitterdust, these are the kind of spells that make your party want an arcane caster around.

At sorcerer 4, I would take the following line up

0 Level: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield
Level 2: Glitterdust

Mage Armor should be on any time there is a chance for combat, Grease and Glitterdust are your go to combat spells, and shield is used if enemies start attacking you or you have a round or two to prepare for a difficult battle. At these low levels you don't have spells to waste on targeted spells(like ray of enfeeblement) or situational spells(like charm person). Those can be gained later when you have higher level spells to deal with large groups of foes.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-12, 11:44 PM
0 Level: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield
Level 2: Glitterdust
I'd second this as Ray of Enfeeblement will burn through your spells quickly assuming there's more than one foe per encounter and Charm Person requires Heighten Spell to remain useful and even then it takes a full-round action to cast and still only works against humanoids and even then doesn't impact their views about the rest of the party.

Machete
2007-09-12, 11:47 PM
Wands.

Even if your AC sucks, more AC will give enemies less of a percentage chance to hit. Strength is irrelevent, running away is not. Mage Armor and Shield are your friends. At this point, even caltrops are your friends. Instead of Grease, check out the Lard item from Dungeonscape. Put that Int to work outside of spellcasting and make terrain in fallback areas heck except for one non-straight path to stop chargemonkey foes.

Skjaldbakka
2007-09-12, 11:52 PM
Well, I can only switch out one of my 1st level spells for something else at
4th level. Which do you recommend? I haven't selected 2nd level spells yet, so more suggestions are always good. I have to have Command Undead before 6th level, as the character goal is to be the first serious necromancer in the setting (planning to become a lich and all that rot).

TheOOB
2007-09-12, 11:56 PM
Wands.

For shield and ray of enfeeblement yes wands are great if you can afford them. Neither spells gain a great deal from more levels (at least ray doesn't until a higher level when you can fit it in anyways). If you can afford a wand of shield, drop shield from my projected spell list. Anything can take that spot, though some direct damage, say burning hands, wouldn't hurt, and besides, it never hurts to be able to light things on fire, trust me on that.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-13, 12:09 AM
Well, I can only switch out one of my 1st level spells for something else at
4th level. Which do you recommend? I haven't selected 2nd level spells yet, so more suggestions are always good. I have to have Command Undead before 6th level, as the character goal is to be the first serious necromancer in the setting (planning to become a lich and all that rot).

Wizards and sorcerors tend to be fairly poor necromancers in the undead-usin' sense, just so you know. Clerics and Dread Necromancers tend to be much, much better at that. And o' course, Dread Necros cast spontaneously off Cha, so you can still totally say you're a sorceror. Heck, he even gradually becomes a lich over the class progression!

You might want to ask your DM about character rebuilding. Heck, if you just say "Parching Touch and Charm Person are on your spell list" (not a big change to the class, really), then your character doesn't really have to change at all IC. His mechanics just change.

Collin152
2007-09-13, 12:13 AM
Wizards and sorcerors tend to be fairly poor necromancers in the undead-usin' sense, just so you know. Clerics and Dread Necromancers tend to be much, much better at that. And o' course, Dread Necros cast spontaneously off Cha, so you can still totally say you're a sorceror. Heck, he even gradually becomes a lich over the class progression!

If your DM allows it, you might want to ask your DM about character rebuilding. Heck, if you just say "Parching Touch and Charm Person are on your spell list" (not a big change to the class, really), then your character doesn't really have to change at all IC. His mechanics just change.

Course, thats assuming one wants to be a "Blargh! ZOmbies" necromancer. Considering his interest in false life, I would say he's more interested in the school, not the zombos.

That is to say, he doesn't really want a horde. ANy wizard makes a good Lich.

Skjaldbakka
2007-09-13, 12:17 AM
It is probably worth noting at this point that the campaign setting has no clerics.

EDIT- response to post below:

True, but a goal's a goal, and a roll's a roll, and if I ain't got no goals, I don't get no rolls.

Poor wanna-be necro wants to have an undead army at his command, regardless of efficiency. To make up for it, I want the other spells he takes to be efficient.

TheOOB
2007-09-13, 12:18 AM
It is probably worth noting at this point that the campaign setting has no clerics.

Still, undead necromancy is difficult for an arcane caster, they should focus on all the nasty debuffs and death spells necromancy has.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-13, 12:23 AM
That is to say, he doesn't really want a horde.

He doesn't? He said he needed Command Undead:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm

This seems to indicate a desire for zombified buddies.


It is probably worth noting at this point that the campaign setting has no clerics. But what about Sorcerors? Dread Necromancer can totally be flavored as a sorceror. It's a spontaneous, charisma-based arcane caster focused in necromancy that eventually (and gradually) masters the ability to become a lich. It sounds like *exactly* what you want.