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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Homebrew Challenge: "Multiclass Archetypes"



Crisis21
2018-08-14, 12:43 PM
So to explain what I mean by 'multiclass archetypes': I'm talking about an archetype that grants features normally found in a different class. Essentially a way to gain some benefits of multiclassing without actually multiclassing. The best examples are archetypes like Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster which are, respectively, Fighters and Rogues with a minor in Wizard.


But why should these be the only ones? After all, plenty of people have done Divine Trickster archetypes for Rogues with a minor in Cleric. Let's expand upon this concept.

How would you have a class minor in Monk? Warlock? Bard? Rogue? Fighter? Barbarian? Cleric? Druid? ...Sorcerer?

How would you handle adding a caster-based archetype to a half-caster class like Ranger or Paladin? How would you handle adding a half-caster-based archetype to any other class?

What would a caster-based archetype look like when added to another caster (no adding spell slots beyond full caster progression)? Especially to a Warlock? How in the world would a Warlock-based archetype work when added to anything?

How would you add a martial-based archetype to another martial class? How would you add it to a full-caster class?

What would be a balanced Sneak Attack progression for a Rogue-based archetype?

How would you handle adding any caster-based archetype to a Barbarian? What about adding a Barbarian-based archetype to a caster?


Inquiring minds (mine, mostly) wish to know.

MoleMage
2018-08-14, 01:17 PM
Check out the Subclass Contests I and II. Jormengand submitted a version of this for rogue and warlock respectively.

Vogie
2018-08-15, 11:21 AM
But why should these be the only ones? After all, plenty of people have done Divine Trickster archetypes for Rogues with a minor in Cleric. Let's expand upon this concept.

Note you can already do this. Talk to your DM, and you could just as easily have a Green Knight (EK, but with the Druid spell list), Divine Trickster (AT, but with a cleric spell list), et cetera. A Spore druid could just as easily be changed to a blight druid or a wildfire druid, just by changing the words to blight and ash, and the damage type from Poison to necrotic/fire.


How would you have a class minor in Monk? Warlock? Bard? Rogue? Fighter? Barbarian? Cleric? Druid? ...Sorcerer?

Carefully. In my Sig, I have a Warlock Patron that uses the Druid spell list and a sample of Wild shaping.

The best way to do things like that is to focus on something very specific about the class you're emulating, and in a way that mixes with the core class - You can't do all of the stuff, so you just have to pick. Arcane Trickster, for example, uses an invisible mage hand first to do rogue-y things, then at 13 to generate advantage as though it was a familiar.


How would you handle adding a caster-based archetype to a half-caster class like Ranger or Paladin? How would you handle adding a half-caster-based archetype to any other class?
Paladin - Oath of the Mystic Theurge would increase the spell slots by 50% and have the additional slots chosen from the Sorcerer spell list. A single Metamagic option would be available as a channel divinity
Ranger - the Warden Conclave gives some cantrips at 3, then bonus spells based on the domain/Circle of the Land spells (just the 3rd & 5th level spells) as well as 1 spell from the druid spell list at levels 3, 7, 11, & 15.

Any archetype that starts at 2nd level can be a half-caster.


What would a caster-based archetype look like when added to another caster (no adding spell slots beyond full caster progression)? Especially to a Warlock? How in the world would a Warlock-based archetype work when added to anything?

See my sig. Most likely, it'd be a mix of spell lists with the same number of spells available, or specific additional prepared spells not unlike the Cleric domain spells.


How would you add a martial-based archetype to another martial class? How would you add it to a full-caster class?

There are lots of casters that dip in to martial-ness - Bladesinger wizard, Blade warlock, Swords/Valor/Whispers Bard.

WotC actually released the skeleton of a Spell-less Ranger, which just replaced the half casting with Battlemaster maneuvers, so there's that.

You could do the same with Arcane Shots or access to something similar to Warlock Invocations


What would be a balanced Sneak Attack progression for a Rogue-based archetype?

Probably something like


3
1d6


4
1d6


5
1d6


6
2d6


7
2d6


8
2d6


9
3d6


10
3d6


11
3d6


12
4d6


13
4d6


14
4d6


15
5d6


16
5d6


17
5d6


18
6d6


19
6d6


20
6d6



How would you handle adding any caster-based archetype to a Barbarian? What about adding a Barbarian-based archetype to a caster?

I remember helping someone here make a Ranger subclass with a Dex Rage, but the forums seem to have swallowed it.
For the Barbarian(caster), you could:

Use template of the Rage Prophet from Pathfinder, where the Barbarian can cast self-buffs or healing spells on themselves while raging. There's also the addition of a Moment of Clarity feature, which you can suspend a rage as a bonus action, allowing the player to cast a spell in the middle of their rage if needed.
Expand the current Multiclass blends into it's own Path - Smite effects allow a the barbarian to "use" spell slots while raging, Ritual Casting so it can't be used during combat, limited like the Ancestral Guardians' ability to cast Augury/Clairvoyance, or spells like AoA (warlock) and Spiritual weapon (cleric) that have a duration but no concentration requirement.
Tie the casting of a single concentration spell to the rage as a class feature. For example, the Eagle Totem feature that allows you to fly during rage, or this quicksmithed "Summoning Barbarian" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23251118&postcount=9) that ties your rage to a ranged Beast Bond spell.

For a Caster(barbarian), you could:

Create a Gish using the above concept of a series of non-concentration Self-buffs, then go into a rage
Something like Grod's Steelsworn homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565529-The-Steelsworn-Grod-s-obligatory-arcane-half-caster-(and-anti-Ranger-))that revolves around an item that can concentrate on a spell for you.
Create a "spellrage" of some variety that alters how you can cast spells.

For the latter, it could be like:

Stone Sorcerer (Revised)
Avalanche Magic
At 1st level, your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 again whenever you gain a level in this class. On your turn, you can enter a rage as a bonus action.
While raging, you gain the following benefits if you arenít wearing any armor other than a shield:

You have advantage on Constitution checks to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage.
When you cast a Cantrip using Charisma, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a sorcerer (as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table).
The range of your spells is limited to 20 ft
You have base AC of 13+Constitution, and when a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at that creatur, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature
You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked Unconscious or if your turn ends and you havenít attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.

paddyfool
2018-08-18, 05:12 AM
I think a Paladin archetype with access to wizard or sorcerer spells might best be called "Sword of the Arcane Order" for heritage reasons.

Rhody
2018-08-18, 03:51 PM
I had an idea for a Wild shape Ranger, but I'm not sure if that fits in here...

Jormengand
2018-08-19, 07:57 AM
Check out the Subclass Contests I and II. Jormengand submitted a version of this for rogue and warlock respectively.

VMC bard is also in contest III, now.

Gr7mm Bobb
2018-09-05, 02:41 PM
I had an idea for a Wild shape Ranger, but I'm not sure if that fits in here...

I'm not sure I can see why it wouldn't. I'd like to see a take on that honestly.

Also, I'm down. I've been brewing the bones of a monk/rogue cross type. My have one for each class to be spicy.