The Charter Mage (semi caster class) (new link)

[KittenMagician]

this is a bit of a longer one and i have been working on it for quite a while. im looking for any criticism that might help me with balancing. im still working on a spell list and there wont be a whole lot of attack spells on the list but it will take me a bit longer though

sorry for the long read it is
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rJVCzzLIm

thanks for your time

(PS this is based on characters from the Old Kingdom book series by Garth Nix)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

What's a Charter? In this context?

[KittenMagician]

What's a Charter? In this context?

the Charter is a description of reality, past and present. one person cant read the whole thing (to much information and what not) but with knoweledge of it you can learn to manipulate it with the Weave. the 2 of them are interconnected yet separate. ididnt think the Lore and stuff was relevant to the balance within the game

[Ninjadeadbeard]

the Charter is a description of reality, past and present. one person cant read the whole thing (to much information and what not) but with knoweledge of it you can learn to manipulate it with the Weave. the 2 of them are interconnected yet separate. ididnt think the Lore and stuff was relevant to the balance within the game

If the lore doesn't interest me, I don't read homebrew. Sorry. I always use that to judge if going forward is worth it to me.

[KittenMagician]

If the lore doesn't interest me, I don't read homebrew. Sorry. I always use that to judge if going forward is worth it to me.

im at work now but when i get home i will fix it in the homebrewery pdf and relink it

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Looking at the new pdf, here are my thoughts:

Formatting seems off. You should capitalize Charter Mage where it appears. Also make sure heading titles end up on the same page as their contents.
6th level spellcasting? That's...odd. Not a common thing at all.
Good skill list, which is why I'd bring it back to two skills.
Can't speak Common? That's a bold move. :smallbiggrin:
More cantrips than the Sorcerer, and on a Half-Caster? Not good.
"Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher" section is complicated by weird level exceptions. I suggest simplifying. This is 5e after all.
Don't know about "Strength of the Mind". Would have to run the math, but it seems powerful as is.
Should change language with the Exorcist bells so you can avoid nailing your allies with all those downsides.
Exorcist seems highly interesting otherwise, and unique. Still, what with the downsides to you and allies it doesn't totally seem like a 5e ability. Also, individual uses per rest instead of a pool of points/uses/dice makes too much paperwork. Later abilities seem to plug holes as opposed to adding anything to the class.
Necromancer seems very similar.
Not sure I like these saves, but then I never liked save-or-suck, especially the ones that hit me too.
"Remembrance of the Old Ways" has a typo in that you left in "this becomes a sorcerer spell for you".


In general, I like the flavor. It's an interesting take on spellcasting, though it's also somewhat confused about just what it wants to be. I'd go over this a couple more times and look to refine what I got and remove what doesn't fit. A decent go, for a first draft.

[KittenMagician]

Looking at the new pdf, here are my thoughts:

Formatting seems off. You should capitalize Charter Mage where it appears. Also make sure heading titles end up on the same page as their contents.
6th level spellcasting? That's...odd. Not a common thing at all.
Good skill list, which is why I'd bring it back to two skills.
Can't speak Common? That's a bold move. :smallbiggrin:
More cantrips than the Sorcerer, and on a Half-Caster? Not good.
"Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher" section is complicated by weird level exceptions. I suggest simplifying. This is 5e after all.
Don't know about "Strength of the Mind". Would have to run the math, but it seems powerful as is.
Should change language with the Exorcist bells so you can avoid nailing your allies with all those downsides.
Exorcist seems highly interesting otherwise, and unique. Still, what with the downsides to you and allies it doesn't totally seem like a 5e ability. Also, individual uses per rest instead of a pool of points/uses/dice makes too much paperwork. Later abilities seem to plug holes as opposed to adding anything to the class.
Necromancer seems very similar.
Not sure I like these saves, but then I never liked save-or-suck, especially the ones that hit me too.
"Remembrance of the Old Ways" has a typo in that you left in "this becomes a sorcerer spell for you".


In general, I like the flavor. It's an interesting take on spellcasting, though it's also somewhat confused about just what it wants to be. I'd go over this a couple more times and look to refine what I got and remove what doesn't fit. A decent go, for a first draft.

allow me to hit on each of your points:

i followeed the PHB formatting for this. the homebrewery site kinda messes it up a little bit.
Kinda what i was going for
the list was kinda a witcher-esque idea. i see what you mean about having only 2 choices but most classes have 2-4 and some have even more options
language is actually tide to your race. this just gives you the ability to read charter runes.
i actually copied the wizard spell slot chart and chopped everything over 6th level off, the spells known colum is the same as the sorcerer's
"Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher" section is copied almost word for word from the sorcerer pages in the PHB
im not super familiar with how the math works for balance which is why im asking this forum for help. (was thinking you could wear armor and get a bonus without having to have dex)
the idea is a risk reward system with the bells. you cant prevent people from hearing it unless they cant hear at all or are out of range
Thanks for thinking its interesting. the main focus of the subclass is the bells and the abilities just make the bells better and better. the more powerful ones i had to limit hard or else they would get used frequently at low levels which is bad in my opinion. i had not considered a "a pool of points/uses/dice". to me it would be common to use the Sleeper frequently as one of your main abilities. i might just make it so your companions also have advantage.
Necromancer is supposed to be the opposite of exorcist.
the books i based this class on kinda has a backlash thing for the bells so i incorporated it.
thanks for pointing this out. i copied it from a website to get the wording right with minimal typing. i will fix it.

thanks for your input i will take it into consideration and try to get it more balanced.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

allow me to hit on each of your points:

Formatting can be dealt with at the end of the process, but you still shouldn't forget about it. I forgot about the language stuff, so nevermind. Though, Druids get a whole class feature called "Druidic", so you could add "Charter Reading" as its own feature.

I get what you're saying about copying the wizard/sorcerer spell chart, but I was referring to cantrips, which I feel is the only nice thing the Sorcerer really gets anymore. Please don't take that away from them. :smallbiggrin: But more seriously, I personally would keep to a spell progression that is similar to either Full, Half, or Demi-casters (Wizard, Ranger, EK respectively). This allows your class to play nice with Multiclassing rules, and gives other reviewers a better baseline to judge your class's relative power when giving you feedback.

Thinking about "Strength of Mind" again, it's extremely powerful. It would allow a character with good stat spread (almost a must among a lot of groups) to have a 22 AC by level 2. You don't say whether to round up or down, so that can change as well. Also, you don't mention shields, which is odd since Medium Armor Prof always comes with shields when a class gives it. More formatting editing would be helpful here, but at the moment it can be a big AC bump, which can be dealt with by moving it further into the class progression to discourage dipping, or making it an unarmored defense type ability.

If I knew what you were basing this class on, I could probably help with getting the mechanics to match the flavor. I've heard that the Final Fantasy 5e hack has a few classes that play with the risk-reward system. Might look there for ideas. Other than that, there's a reason no one actually plays a Wild Sorcerer; abilities that can hurt your allies, will hurt your allies. It's just not a great system on its own. I'd recommend changing the language of the abilities to read: "All creatures you choose within X feet..."

You could also level-lock some of the mightier bells so that you can't use them until you get to the level that bell requires. This way, you can also make the DC's for the bells uniform, following your spellcasting DC formula or something.

Hope some of this helps. I'm excited to see more!

[KittenMagician]

Formatting can be dealt with at the end of the process, but you still shouldn't forget about it. I forgot about the language stuff, so nevermind. Though, Druids get a whole class feature called "Druidic", so you could add "Charter Reading" as its own feature.

I get what you're saying about copying the wizard/sorcerer spell chart, but I was referring to cantrips, which I feel is the only nice thing the Sorcerer really gets anymore. Please don't take that away from them. :smallbiggrin: But more seriously, I personally would keep to a spell progression that is similar to either Full, Half, or Demi-casters (Wizard, Ranger, EK respectively). This allows your class to play nice with Multiclassing rules, and gives other reviewers a better baseline to judge your class's relative power when giving you feedback.

Thinking about "Strength of Mind" again, it's extremely powerful. It would allow a character with good stat spread (almost a must among a lot of groups) to have a 22 AC by level 2. You don't say whether to round up or down, so that can change as well. Also, you don't mention shields, which is odd since Medium Armor Prof always comes with shields when a class gives it. More formatting editing would be helpful here, but at the moment it can be a big AC bump, which can be dealt with by moving it further into the class progression to discourage dipping, or making it an unarmored defense type ability.

If I knew what you were basing this class on, I could probably help with getting the mechanics to match the flavor. I've heard that the Final Fantasy 5e hack has a few classes that play with the risk-reward system. Might look there for ideas. Other than that, there's a reason no one actually plays a Wild Sorcerer; abilities that can hurt your allies, will hurt your allies. It's just not a great system on its own. I'd recommend changing the language of the abilities to read: "All creatures you choose within X feet..."

You could also level-lock some of the mightier bells so that you can't use them until you get to the level that bell requires. This way, you can also make the DC's for the bells uniform, following your spellcasting DC formula or something.

Hope some of this helps. I'm excited to see more!

as far as sorcerers go the start with 4 cantrips and up to 5 and 6 later on. mine is literally the wizard cantrip column. my spell progression here is the same as a full caster but without high level spell slots (except remembrancers)

i see what you are saying about strength of the mind and i will probably switch it with the sixth level trait. also Charter mages dont want to use shields so they can cast spells or ring bells (need a free hand), they dont get a holy symbol thing like paladins or clerics.

i like what you said about the level lock for the bells. i will see what i think fits as far as that goes with the bells.

i will work more on wording and what not

[Stan]

It's interesting. It's one of the few writeups trying to do something really different that deserves a full class. It also seems tied to the flavor of its setting. It's going to take time to digest, though.

They look like a natural gish. Almost a full caster. Strength of mind and medium armor should give the best or one of the best armor classes.

I like the concept of read the charter but think it should have more options than just increase spell range. If that's the only effect, then just make it for all spells as it's a small benefit and I like to limit the number of things which need bookkeeping.

The bells are cool. I really like the risk. Too strong in some cases. The sleeper bell alone is like a 4th level spell - all creatures within 60' save or sleep, and/or really hurt a large group of low level undead. At 3rd level, you can cast it ~5 times/day. Plus you get the other bells, too. Yea, there's the friendly fire issue but it's still a lot.

I'd tone down the bells. But I'd also just drop the class to a half caster, without or without cantrips. The bells are where it's at. How about the following - Spending the night retrieving the bells results in no long rest, so you can't do it every night. You can retrieve a limited number of bells on a trip - either equal to the highest level spell you can cast or equal to the bonus of one of your mental stats. Plus, the bells are fragile and shatter when you ring them. This would make them special resources that refresh more slowly than spells. Maybe reduce the range of the bells some both to decrease their power and make them easier to use.