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Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-17, 01:41 PM
The Warlock has some of the wonkiest mechanics in 5e, to say nothing of being almost painfully dependent on short rests. And it never really felt quite like the at-will magic class it was in 3.5. But mostly...mostly I just wanted to see if I could write a Warlock that feels iconic and doesn't cast spells.


The Warlock

Basic Features: As the PHB Warlock



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Invocations Known


1st
+2
Otherworldly Patron, Eldritch Blast
--


2nd
+2
Least Invocations
2


3rd
+2
Pact Boon
3


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
4


5th
+3
Lesser Invocations
5


6th
+3
Otherworldly Patron feature
6


7th
+3
--
7


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
8


9th
+4
--
9


10th
+4
Otherworldly Patron feature
10


11th
+4
Greater Invocations
11


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
12


13th
+5
Dire Blast
13


14th
+5
Otherworldly Patron feature
14


15th
+5
--
15


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
16


17th
+6
Dark Invocations
17


18th
+6
--
18


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
19


20th
+6
Eldritch Master
20



Otherworldly Patron: At 1st level, you have struck a bargain with an otherworldly being of your choice. Your choice grants you special features, as described in the Player's Handbook and other sources, as well as two cantrips as shown below.

The Archfey: Druidcraft, Minor Illusion
The Celestial: Resistance, Spare the Dying
The Fiend: Control Flames, Thaumaturgy
The Great Old One: Message, Thaumaturgy
The Hexblade: Thaumaturgy, True Strike
The Raven Queen: Guidance, Message
The Undying: Blade Ward, Resistance


Eldritch Blast: As an action, you may make a ranged spell attack against a target within 120ft, using your Charisma modifier. On a hit, the target takes 1d10+Cha force damage. You must have at least one hand free and be able to speak in order to use your Eldritch Blast.

Beginning at 5th level, you may make two ranged spell attacks when you use this ability, each dealing d10+Cha force damage. You may direct the two blasts at the same or different targets. At 11th level, you may make three attacks, and at 17th you may make four.

Eldritch Invocations: Beginning at 2nd level, you learn two eldritch invocations of your choice. At each additional level in this class, you learn one additional invocation. In addition, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation of the same grade.

At 2nd level, you can only learn Least Invocations. At 5th level, you can learn Least and Lesser Invocations. At 11th, you can access Greater Invocations, and at 17th you can learn Dark Invocations.

If an Invocation has a saving throw, the DC is equal to 8+Prof+Cha. If it requires a spell attack roll, use your Charisma.

There are four types of Invocation:

Blast Effects modify your Eldritch Blast ability. They do not take an action to activate, but you may only apply a single Shape to your blast at a time, no matter how many individual ranged spell attacks you make--all attacks have the same modified effect.
Eldritch Stances are special bits of magic that activate in times of great need. When you roll initiative, you may activate a single Eldritch Stance as a reaction. If you are surprised, you may activate one as a bonus action on your first turn instead.
Pact Spells grant you access to a limited amount of spellcasting. You do not need to provide a material component to cast a Pact Spell, though you must provide verbal and somatic components as usual, as well as following the usual rules for Concentration, counterspell, and so on.
Cruel Blessings are unique abilities, usually granting either passive bonuses or special actions.

Unless otherwise mentioned, Invocations function as the original print versions.

Pact Boon: At 3rd level, you gain one of the following features of your choice. This feature works as the PHB Warlock feature, except as noted below

Pact of the Blade: During a long rest, you may imbue a weapon with eldritch energy, making it your Pact weapon. You are automatically proficient with your pact weapon. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage, but loses these benefits if you imbue a new weapon or if you die. When you strike a target with your Pact Weapon, it counts as striking them with your Eldritch Blast for the purpose of applying Blast Effects. You also gain proficiency in medium armor and shields.
Pact of the Chain: You also gain proficiency in Animal Handling. If you were already proficient, you gain proficiency in any one skill of your choice.
Pact of the Tome: You also gain proficiency in your choice of Arcana, History, Religion, or Nature.

Ability Score Improvement: As the PHB Warlock

Dire Blast: Beginning at 13th level, you may apply two Blast Effects at once. If both would alter the damage type, treat your blast as whichever of the two types would be more advantageous.

Eldritch Master: At 20th level, you may activate two Eldritch Stance abilities simultaneously.

----------------------------------------------


Blast Effects

Archon’s Light (Celestial patron): Your Eldritch Blast deals radiant damage instead of force. For each hit you score, one ally within 30ft of the target gains 2 temporary hit points. (Note that Eldritch Blast is a class feature, not a skill, and thus Radiant Soul does not apply)
Brimstone Blast (Fiend patron): Your Eldritch Blast deals fire damage. Anyone struck catches on fire, taking an additional 1d6 fire damage at the start of each round until they either take a bonus action to extinguish themselves or take cold damage. Multiple instances of this ability do not stack.
Eldritch Spear
Grasp of Hadar
Lance of Lethargy
Psychic Bolt (Great Old One patron): Your Eldritch Blast deals psychic damage. Targets struck have Disadvantage on their next attack roll before the start of your next turn, as their mind are assailed by images of madness.
Repelling Blast


Eldritch Stances

Armor of Agathys: You gain 2 temporary hit points per Warlock level. If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 2 cold damage per Warlock level. These temporary hit points vanish after one minute.
Cloak of Flies: You surround yourself with a magical aura that looks like buzzing flies. The aura extends 5 feet from you in every direction, but not through total cover, and lasts for one minute. The aura grants you advantage on Charisma (Intimidation) checks but disadvantage on all other Charisma checks. Any other creature that starts its turn in the aura takes poison damage equal to your level, and you gain Resistance to poison damage.
Hellish Rebuke: You surround yourself with threatening flames. For one minute, the first creature who damages you takes 1d10 fire damage per Warlock level. They may attempt a Dexterity save for half damage.
Hex: Designate one creature within 90ft. For one minute, you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target when you hit it with an attack. Also choose one ability when you cast the spell. The target has disadvantage on ability checks made with the chosen ability. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to curse a new creature.


Pact Spells

Armor of Shadows
Eldritch Sight: You can cast Detect Magic and Detect Evil and Good at will, without expending a spell slot
Mask of Many Faces
Misty Visions
Thief of Five Fates: You may cast Bane at will, as though from a spell slot of one-half your Warlock level (round up).
Wanderer’s Diplomacy (Raven Queen patron): You may cast Sanctuary and Calm Emotions at will.


Cruel Blessings

Baleful Utterance: You learn the Thunderclap cantrip. When you cast it, you may designate one unattended object in the area weighing less than ten pounds per Warlock level and cause it to instantly break.
Beast Speech: You may communicate with animals as though you shared a language. You also gain proficiency in Animal Handling
Beguiling Influence: You gain proficiency in the Deception and Persuasion skills, and may add twice your Proficiency bonus to checks made using those skills. You also learn the Friends cantrip.
Devil’s Sight
Eldritch Smite: As an action, you may make a weapon attack. If you hit, the target must make a Strength save or be knocked prone. At 5th level, the target takes an additional 1d10 force damage, or half that if they succeed on their save. This damage increases by 1d10 at 11th level, and again at 17th.
Eldritch Weapon (Pact of the Blade): As a bonus action, you may summon a weapon of eldritch energy. This weapon counts as your Pact Weapon, and you may choose the form it takes each time you create it. It disappears again if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more, or if you dismiss it (no action required). Your Eldritch Weapon also gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage. During a short rest, you may transform your normal Pact Weapon into an Eldritch Weapon. If you choose to summon your Pact Weapon with this ability, you cannot choose its shape, but it also does not disappear if moved more than 5ft away from you.
Eyes of the Rune Keeper
Fey Dreams (Archfey patron): As an action, pick one target within 60ft. They must make a Wisdom save or fall asleep for one minute, or until they take damage or someone uses their action to wake them up. While asleep, they take psychic damage each round equal to your Charisma modifier. You must concentrate on this ability, as on a spell.
Gift of the Depths
Shield of Ill Luck (Hexblade patron): As a reaction, you may add one-half your Charisma modifier (round up) to your armor class against one attack. You may do so after seeing the roll, but before the DM announces the result.
Spiderwalk: You gain a climb speed equal to your land speed. You may move up, down, and across vertical surfaces and upside down along ceilings, while leaving your hands free.
Tomb of Levistrus
Unholy Vigor (Undying patron): As an action, you gain resistance to the next damage you take.
Aspect of the Moon (Pact of the Tome)
Gaze of Two Minds: As an action, you may touch a creature and perceive through its senses for up to 1 hour. An unwilling target gets a Wisdom save to resist this effect. Once you have formed a connection, you may use a bonus action to switch between your own senses and those of the target. While perceiving through the other creature's senses, you benefit from any special senses possessed by that creature, and you are blinded and deafened to your own surroundings. Additionally, you may speak through them using your own voice, even if the creature is not normally capable of speech. If you have a familiar, you may form this connection across any distance.
Gift of the Ever-Living Ones (Pact of the Chain)
Otherworldly Leap: When determining how far you can jump, multiple your normal distance by your Charisma modifier.




Blast Effects

Eldritch Chain: After striking a target with your Eldritch Blast, you may choose a second target within 5ft of the first to take force damage equal to your Charisma modifier.
Hellrime Blast: Your Eldritch Blast deals cold damage. Targets struck are immobilized until they make a Str save at the start of their turn to break free, or until they take fire damage.


Eldritch Stances

Fires of Hell (Fiend patron): For one minute you gain a pool of fiery magic, represented by a number of d6s equal to your Warlock level. Whenever you deal damage with your Eldritch Blast, Pact Weapon (if applicable), or a spell, you can increase that damage by spending dice from the pool. You can spend a number of dice equal to half your Warlock level or less. Roll the spent dice and add them to the damage as fire damage. Until all these dice are gone, enemies striking you in melee take 1 fire damage per remaining die.
Raven’s Strike (Raven Queen patron): You may immediately cast Spiritual Weapon
Trickster’s Escape: For one minute, your movement is unaffected by difficult terrain, and spells and other magical effects can neither reduce the target’s speed nor cause the target to be paralyzed or restrained. Being underwater imposes no penalties on your movements or attacks. As a reaction, you may automatically escape from nonmagical restraints, such as manacles or grappling creature, after which this ability ends.
Walk Unseen: You become invisible for one minute, or until you attack or cast a spell.


Pact Spells

Arms of Hadar: You may cast Arms of Hadar at will, as though from a spell slot of one-half your Warlock level (round up). Targets who successfully save against the spell take no damage, rather than half.
Ascendant Step
Bewitching Whispers: You may cast Suggestion at will. If a target saves against this ability, it may not be affected again until you have completed a long rest.
Breath of the Night: You may cast Darkness at will.
Charm: You may cast Charm Person at will, as though from a spell slot of one-half your Warlock level (round up). Once a creature has successfully saved against this ability, they may not be affected again until you have completed a Long Rest.
Master of Myriad Forms
Sign of Ill Omen: You may cast Bestow Curse at will as a 3rd level spell.
Spiteful Fantasy (Archfey patron): You may cast Phantasmal Force at will. The damage each turn is equal to your Warlock level, rather than 1d6.
Whispers of the Grave


Cruel Blessings

Relentless Hex (Hexblade patron): As a bonus action, you may teleport up to 30ft to an unoccupied space within 5ft of the target you have cursed using your Hexblade's Curse or a similar ability such, as the Hex or Thief of Five Fates invocations, or casting Bestow Curse.
Angelic Grace (Celestial patron): You may use your Healing Light feature as an action, instead of a bonus action. If you do, treat all expended dice as though they had rolled the maximum value.
Book of Ancient Secrets (Pact of the Tome)
Dire Servant (Pact of the Chain): When you cast Find Familiar, you may also summon a faerie dragon, barluga, bearded devil, hell hound, mephit, phase spider, shadow demon, or spined devil. As an action, you may allow your familiar to take an action using its normal rules, allowing it to use abilities like Multiattack. If you take the Attack action or use your Eldritch Blast ability, you may use your reaction to allow your familiar to make one attack.
Ghostly Gaze
One with Shadows: When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you may use your action to become invisible for 10 minutes, or until you attack or cast a spell.
Shadow of the Grave (Undying patron): You and creatures within 30ft have resistance to necrotic damage, and advantage on saves against necromancy spells and the special abilities of undead.
The Dead Walk: During a long rest, you may choose one small or medium humanoid corpse and raise it as a skeleton or zombie. You may have a number of undead at once using this ability equal to your Charisma modifier; if you animate an additional corpse, one of the previous undead is unmade. On each of your turns, you can use a bonus action to mentally command any creature you made with this spell if the creature is within 60 feet of you, as the Animate Dead spell.
Thirsting Blade (Pact of the Blade): You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn, and you may use your Pact weapon to perform somatic spell components.
Thought Tendrils (Great Old One patron): When you speak to a creature using your Awakened Mind ability, you may also detect their surface thoughts. As an action, you may probe deeper, forcing them to make a Wisdom save or grant you insight into its reasoning (if any), its emotional state, and something that looms large in its mind (such as something it worries over, loves, or hates). It is aware of this probing.




Blast Effects

Noxious Blast: Your Eldritch Blast deals poison damage. Creatures who are stuck must make a Con save or be poisoned for one minute. If they succeed on this save, they cannot be affected by it again until you have completed a long rest.
Utterdark Blast: Targets struck by your Eldritch Blast are blinded until the start of your next turn. Creatures who are stuck must make a Wis save or be blinded for one minute. If they succeed on this save, they cannot be affected by it again until you have completed a long rest.


Eldritch Stances

Radiant Sun (Celestial patron): For one minute, you radiate a 30ft sphere of true sunlight, shedding bright light within 30ft and dim light for an additional 30ft. Undead and Fiends in the brightly illuminated area take radiant damage equal to your level modifier at the start of each turn.
Shadow of Moil: You surround yourself with flame-like shadows. For one minute, you have resistance to radiant damage, and whenever a creature within 10 feet of you hits you with an attack, the shadows lash out at that creature, dealing it 2d8 necrotic damage. In addition, the shadows turn dim light within 10 feet of you into darkness, and bright light in the same area to dim light.


Pact Spells

Killing Fear (Hexblade patron): You may cast Phantasmal Killer at will. If an enemy successfully saves, they cannot be affected again until you have completed a long rest.
Chains of Carceri (Pact of the Chain): You can cast Hold Monster at will. You must finish a long rest before you can use this invocation on the same creature again. If the target is a Celestial, Fiend, or Elemental, it has Disadvantage on its initial save.
Dark Augury (Raven Queen patron): You may cast Divination at will.
Devil’s Whispers: You may cast Suggestion at will. After the spell ends, the target must make a Wisdom save or forget that you were the one who suggested the action, instead becoming convinced it was his own idea.
Hunger of Hadar: You may cast Hunger of Hadar at will.
Mire the Mind: You may cast Slow at will.
Visions of Distant Realms


Cruel Blessings

Kiss of Mephistopheles (Fiend patron): After striking a target with your Eldritch Blast, you may cause it to detonate in a massive explosion. All creatures within a 20ft radius must make Dex saves or take 10d6 fire damage. The target struck has Disadvantage on this save. After you have used this ability, you may not do so again until you’ve completed a short or long rest.
Dreadful Word: A number of creatures within earshot equal to your Charisma modifier must make Wisdom saves or be Confused for one minute, as the spell. They may make a new save at the beginning of each round to shake off this effect. Once you have used this ability, you cannot use it again until you have completed a short or long rest.
Fell Flight: You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed.
Flee the Scene: As an action, you may teleport yourself to any other spot within 100ft. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction. When you do, an illusion of you remains in your original position for 1 round.
Force of Madness (Great Old One patron): You are always considered to be under the effects of the Telekinesis spell, allowing you to manipulate creatures and objects at any time.
Lifedrinker (Pact of the Blade): When you hit a creature with your Pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1), and you gain an equal number of temporary hit points.
Rebuke Undead (Undying patron): As an action, you may force an undead creature within 30ft to make a Wisdom save. On a failure, it is frightened of you for one minute, even if it is normally immune to fear, and suffers 1d6 psychic damage each round it is frightened. At the end of each turn, it may make a Wisdom save to remove the effect.
Sculptor of Flesh: As an action, you may transform a willing creature within 60ft into a new form for up to one hour. The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than one-half your Warlock level. The target retains its mental ability scores, proficiency bonus, and current hit points, but otherwise uses the statistics of its new form. The target returns to its normal form if it is reduced to zero hit points, or if you choose to end the effect as a bonus action. You must Concentrate on this ability as though on a spell; if your Concentration is lost, the effect ends. Once a creature has been affected by this ability, they cannot benefit from it again until they have completed a short or long rest.
The Dead Follow (Prerequisite: The Dead Walk): When you use your The Dead Walk ability, you may create ghouls instead of zombies or skeletons. You may also create ghasts, each counting as two undead for the purposes of determining how many you can simultaneously animate; wights, counting as three; or mummies, counting as five.
Whispers of the Past (Pact of the Tome): Once per short rest, you may cast Legend Lore as an action, with your Book of Shadows the only material component required. You find the information written down in a part of the book you’d never seen before, where it remains until you use this ability again.
Witch Sight
Woodland Servants (Archfey patron): Once per short rest, you may use an action to summon a single beast or fey with a challenge rating of one-third your Warlock level (round up). The creature serves you for one hour, or until it is reduced to zero HP. During that time, they are friendly to you, and obey verbal commands with no action required.




Blast Effects

Maddening Blast: Your Eldritch Blast deals psychic damage. A creature struck by it must make a Wisdom save or have its Intelligence and Charisma scores reduced to 1 for one minute. The creature can’t cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them. They may make a new save at the start of each round to end this effect. If they succeed on a save against it, they cannot be affected again until you have completed a long rest.


Eldritch Stances

Dark Foresight: For one minute, you have advantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. Additionally, other creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against you. If you are successfully stuck by an attack, this effect ends. Unlike other Eldritch Stances, this ability may be activated as a non-action during a surprise round, allowing you to act normally.
Fiendskin (Fiend patron): For one minute, you take on a devilish appearance. In this form, you gain 50 temporary hit points, a +2 bonus to AS, immunity to fire and poison, a pair of wings allowing you to fly at a speed of 60ft/round, and claws. As an action, you may make three melee spell attacks, each dealing 2d6+Cha slashing damage and 2d6 fire damage; you may also make one such attack as a bonus action after taking the Attack action.


Pact Spells

Chained Mind (Pact of the Chain): You may cast Dominate Person at will. Once a creature successfully saves against the ability, they may not be affected by it again until you finish a long rest.
Chilling Tentacles: You may cast Black Tentacles at will. Targets who start their turn in the area take additional cold damage equal to your Warlock level.
Pipes of Song (Archfey patron): You may cast Otto’s Irresistible Dance at will. Once a creature has successfully saved against this ability, it may not be affected again until you complete a long rest.
Touch of Mortality (Undying patron): You may cast Contagion at will. However, the duration is one minute, and the target may make a Constitution save at the end of each of its turns to remove the disease. If they fail three times, they are afflicted for seven days.
Word of Changing: You may cast Polymorph at will, as a bonus action.


Cruel Blessings

Consume Luck (Hexblade patron): When an enemy within 100ft scores a critical hit, you may use your reaction to roll a d20 and substitute that roll for your target’s. The next attack you make is treated as a critical hit.
Dark Discorporation: As an action, you may dissolve your body into hundreds of bats. This functions as the Gaseous Form spell, except that your fly speed is 40ft, the spaces you move through must be at least one inch wide, and you may use Warlock invocations normally. If you do, the effect ends after one minute, and you cannot use it again until you’ve completed a short or long rest. You may also return to your normal form as a bonus action without incurring this penalty.
Eldritch Glaive (Pact of the Blade): As an action, you may make a melee attack against either one enemy and all adjacent enemies, or against all enemies within your reach. Roll damage a single time against all targets, with an additional 1d10 force damage for each enemy you successfully hit.
Fimbulwinter (Raven): Once per long rest, you may cast Control Weather without needing to concentrate on it. You may only reduce the temperature, not raise it, but when doing so you may adjust the temperature two steps at once. If the temperature reaches Arctic Cold, you are joined by 2d4 Winter Wolves. These wolves add your Proficiency bonus to their attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, saves, and the save DC of their Cold Breath ability, and gain an additional 60 hit points. You are considered to have a telepathic link to your wolves, who obey your orders faithfully.
Hag's Eye: You are always considered to be under the effects of an Eyebite spell, allowing you to imposes curses as an action at all times. A creature may only be affected by one of your curses at a time, but you may target them with another curse even after they have successfully saved.
Horror of the Void (Great Old One patron): Once per long rest, you may bring the minds of nearby beings in contact with the dread madness of your patron. This functions as the Weird spell. If targets are killed by the damage, their heads explode.
Martyr’s Breath (Celestial patron): Once per short rest, when an ally within 100ft dies, you may use your reaction to ward off the reaper. Your ally is restored to life with 5 hit points per Warlock level.
Path of Shadow: As an action, you can create a coiling path of shadowstuff along the edge of the Material Plane and the Shadowfell. The effect is largely illusory, but the path is quasi-real. In the region of shadow, you and up to six companions move at a rate of 50 miles per hour, moving normally on the borders of the Plane of Shadow but much more rapidly relative to the Material Plane. Thus, you can use this spell to travel rapidly by stepping onto the Plane of Shadow, moving the desired distance, and then stepping back onto the Material Plane. Shadow walk can also be used to travel to other planes that border on the Plane of Shadow
Serpent’s Tongue: When you make a Charisma check, you may replace the number you rolled with a 10. Additionally, no matter what you say, magic that would determine if you are telling the truth indicates that you are being truthful.
Unseen Scroll (Pact of the Tome): Once per short rest as a bonus action you may open your Book of Shadows to find a new passage that functions as a spell scroll, containing any spell of up to 6th level which does not require an expensive material component. You are the only one who can use the scroll, but the spell counts as being on your list and of a level you are able to cast.
Word of Death: As an action, choose a creature within 60ft. If they have less than 100 hit points, they die instantly. If they have more, you suffer 100 points of necrotic damage.

Thundersteel
2018-09-18, 12:48 PM
I'm a fan. The Warlock is a "profoundly miscellaneous" class, and the restrictions on them always seemed arbitrary. A 2nd level warlock can cast Disguise Self at will, a 1st level utility spell; to cast Alter Self, a second level utility spell with a very similar function, the same Warlock has to be level 15.

I had toyed around with a "Dark blessing" style catch-all invocation, wherein a Warlock can cast any spell at will that
a) has a range of self
b) a duration of at least 1 minute
c) they are of a level to cast (with a possible level adjustment; ie, you must be able to cast level 4 spells to take a level spell as Dark Blessing).

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-18, 03:04 PM
to cast Alter Self, a second level utility spell with a very similar function, the same Warlock has to be level 15.
I can only imagine whoever wrote that one was thinking of the (profoundly broken) 3.5 version of the spell.

... Now that I think about it, I should maybe tweak the Pact Spell invocations. The classic Warlock was usually "standard spell with a twist"...

Sindeloke
2018-09-19, 04:36 AM
Vastly more satisfying than the weird combination of normal spells with slots + 1/day invocations that use your spell slots + 1/day high level spells that don't use slots + short-rest casting balanced around auto-scaling of spells that don't necessarily scale. You've made something that at least appears to be both simpler and more straightforward than the RAW lock but also has more actual options for what to do with itself from round to round - impossible to say if that's actually the case without playtesting, of course, but laudable regardless.

If you're bringing back blast shapes, though, why not go all the way? Make baseline EB a single target attack with scaling damage more similar to sneak attack than normal cantrip scaling so it can keep up in single target, and use blast shapes to chain it or make it a cone or whatever if you want multi target damage. (Or at the very least rename it "eldritch pulse," a "blast" made of several small sequential pokes is just linguistically uncomfortable, aesthetically.)

Vogie
2018-09-19, 08:33 AM
This looks really good start, Grod.

Having Dark Blessings and Dark Invocations being in the same class is probably confusing... a simple name change will suffice. Same with Least & Lesser. Maybe Minor Invocations & Core Invocations?

I'd like to see more Patron-related invocations, as a nod to the expanded spell lists for each patron. You included the Spiritual Weapon one for Raven, so I know you thought about it. Things like Shield, Blink, & the smite spells for Hexblade, Cure wounds & revivify for Celestial, Sleep & Greater Invisibility for Archfey, Command & Scorching Ray for fiend, et cetera. You could include them in a list by themselves, as parts of the patron selection.

I'd like to see a Shadow Blade spell as an invocation. You reword it to lock it into non-bladepact Boons (and buff it), reword it to allow Dual Wielding Bladepacts exclusively, or could use the RAW verbiage, which allows a little of both without being too strong.

Invocation issues:

One with Shadows & Walk Unseen are in the same invocation level, which seems odd. In RAW, one has a 5th rider, and the other 15th, so it made sense... without it, it's a bit odd.
Gaze of Two Minds and Voice of the Chain Master could probably be combined.
Relentless Hex could probably be expanded to use any feature that curses, which includes Hexblade's Curse, Bane, and later, Eyebite.
Tomb of Levistrus used to have a level 5+ rider so you'd probably want to move from Least to Lesser. Same with Whispers of the Grave, which had a 9+ rider, so it should likely be Greater (as it's a 3rd level spell).
Mire the Mind casts slow "using a spell slot", but the spell itself doesn't scale with scale level. That rider was only included in the RAWarlock for power limiter, presumably, so you may just want to limit it some other way.
Noxious Blast & Utterdark Blast don't have saves, making them broken powerful. Those, alongside Maddening Blast, also have no limitations, currently - You could use a single EB to blind/poison/feeblemind up to 4 targets in a single turn, every turn.
Gift of the Depths is redundant if Master of Myriad Forms is available at 5
Witch’s Eye should either mention you gain the benefits of Eyebite without concentration, or allow you to just cast it at-will. Also, it's confusing to have a "Witch Sight" and "Witch Eye" that do 2 completely different things.
Both Sculptor of Flesh and Word of Changing basically just cast polymorph, and the only difference I can see is the action speed.
Your Improved pact weapon states "Each time you summon your Pact Weapon, you can have it take the shape of a different simple or martial weapon"... but it the Pact Boon of the Blade already does that. You also moved it to level 5 for some reason, and removed the ability that allows it to be used as part of casting.
I like some of the changes to Eldritch Smite, bringing it down to a single melee-only strike. However, because you're allowing it to channel EB, with both the above issues and the new Eldritch Chain, it's also crazy broken. I'd also like to see an alternative smite effect that Warlock Archers can use... that knockdown effect was really useful against flying targets.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-19, 01:43 PM
Vastly more satisfying than the weird combination of normal spells with slots + 1/day invocations that use your spell slots + 1/day high level spells that don't use slots + short-rest casting balanced around auto-scaling of spells that don't necessarily scale. You've made something that at least appears to be both simpler and more straightforward than the RAW lock but also has more actual options for what to do with itself from round to round - impossible to say if that's actually the case without playtesting, of course, but laudable regardless.

If you're bringing back blast shapes, though, why not go all the way? Make baseline EB a single target attack with scaling damage more similar to sneak attack than normal cantrip scaling so it can keep up in single target, and use blast shapes to chain it or make it a cone or whatever if you want multi target damage. (Or at the very least rename it "eldritch pulse," a "blast" made of several small sequential pokes is just linguistically uncomfortable, aesthetically.)
Thanks! That's... not a bad idea, actually. Would make things like Eldritch Smite a lot easier to write, and would let me bring back some of the other old blast shapes. Hmm...


Having Dark Blessings and Dark Invocations being in the same class is probably confusing... a simple name change will suffice. Same with Least & Lesser. Maybe Minor Invocations & Core Invocations?
I'm used to Least/Lesser from 3.5, but fair point.


I'd like to see more Patron-related invocations, as a nod to the expanded spell lists for each patron. You included the Spiritual Weapon one for Raven, so I know you thought about it. Things like Shield, Blink, & the smite spells for Hexblade, Cure wounds & revivify for Celestial, Sleep & Greater Invisibility for Archfey, Command & Scorching Ray for fiend, et cetera. You could include them in a list by themselves, as parts of the patron selection.
Oh, yeah. Good idea.


I'd like to see a Shadow Blade spell as an invocation. You reword it to lock it into non-bladepact Boons (and buff it), reword it to allow Dual Wielding Bladepacts exclusively, or could use the RAW verbiage, which allows a little of both without being too strong.
Not a bad idea either.


One with Shadows & Walk Unseen are in the same invocation level, which seems odd. In RAW, one has a 5th rider, and the other 15th, so it made sense... without it, it's a bit odd.
I guess they're a bit redundant, but what do you mean by about riders?


Gaze of Two Minds and Voice of the Chain Master could probably be combined.
Hmm, yeah, that could


Relentless Hex could probably be expanded to use any feature that curses, which includes Hexblade's Curse, Bane, and later, Eyebite.
Good call.


Tomb of Levistrus used to have a level 5+ rider so you'd probably want to move from Least to Lesser. Same with Whispers of the Grave, which had a 9+ rider, so it should likely be Greater (as it's a 3rd level spell).
I... think I know what you mean about "level x+ rider" now, but I was looking more at "what power level does this make sense to have at?" Speak With Dead isn't that strong an ability to have at-will, especially given the limits built into the spell (you can't spam it on one corpse, and you can get false/cryptic answers), but it's fun enough that you might as well get it early. Similarly, Tomb has so many drawbacks that I don't think it needs the higher level slot.


Mire the Mind casts slow "using a spell slot", but the spell itself doesn't scale with scale level. That rider was only included in the RAWarlock for power limiter, presumably, so you may just want to limit it some other way.
Oh, you're right. I'll scrap that bit of language.


Noxious Blast & Utterdark Blast don't have saves, making them broken powerful. Those, alongside Maddening Blast, also have no limitations, currently - You could use a single EB to blind/poison/feeblemind up to 4 targets in a single turn, every turn.
I'll add a save to Noxious/Utterdark. Maddening...Maddening is a level 17 ability and has a crapton of saves (including "success grants immunity") so I'm not worried.


Gift of the Depths is redundant if Master of Myriad Forms is available at 5
Not entirely-- Alter Self is Concentration and only affects yourself, while Gift is both permanent and lets you cast Water Breathing and bring the rest of the party with you. It's a depth-vs-breadth thing. Also, retraining.


Witch’s Eye should either mention you gain the benefits of Eyebite without concentration, or allow you to just cast it at-will. Also, it's confusing to have a "Witch Sight" and "Witch Eye" that do 2 completely different things.
I wrote it that way so that it wasn't


Both Sculptor of Flesh and Word of Changing basically just cast polymorph, and the only difference I can see is the action speed.
Sculptor also doesn't rewrite your hit points.


Your Improved pact weapon states "Each time you summon your Pact Weapon, you can have it take the shape of a different simple or martial weapon"... but it the Pact Boon of the Blade already does that. You also moved it to level 5 for some reason, and removed the ability that allows it to be used as part of casting.
*It now unlocks ranged weapons, but you're right, that is redundant-- for some reason I was thinking that changing the shape of your weapon normally took an hour.
*It was already effectively level 5+, since it requires Pact of the Blade, and the RAWarlock didn't get a new Invocation at 3rd or 4th.
*Using your weapon as a focus is unnecessary; Pact Spell invocations don't require material components. Letting them perform somatic gestures wouldn't be a bad idea, though.


I like some of the changes to Eldritch Smite, bringing it down to a single melee-only strike. However, because you're allowing it to channel EB, with both the above issues and the new Eldritch Chain, it's also crazy broken. I'd also like to see an alternative smite effect that Warlock Archers can use... that knockdown effect was really useful against flying targets.
I... don't see it. It functionally exists as an alternative to Thirsting Blade, meaning you're comparing it to Extra Attack. So at 5th we're talking, oh, d8+4+2d10 (19.5) vs 2d8+8 (18)-- slightly better, but without the Attack action's possibility of rider effects. And I'm not sure why you're especially worried about Chain-- it's just adding on a weaker version of Green Flame Blade's rider.

Fair point about archer-bladelocks though.

Quintus Vorenus
2018-09-22, 06:06 AM
Greetings Grod,

Congratulations it feels really iconic so far! I would however suggest that you give the class invocations from the first level onwards. Keeping it on second level has always been a multiclass tax.

Which the game designers kept somehow even though multicalss is a optional rule.

One question are you considering designing alternate subclass features or to keep existing ones?

Cheers!

Ixidor92
2018-09-22, 10:22 AM
I love the idea of this warlock change. A number of the invocations may need some balancing (in particular, the dark invocation that reduces int and char to 1 seems a bit overblown to me), but on the whole their power level seems about right. The only changes I would make (which other people have suggested) are
a) add some unique invocations to each pact type. Perhaps they gain a bonus invocation at certain levels, similar to the 2 cantrips they gain at first level.
b) Make invocations available at 1st level. With invocations now being emphasized much more, keeping them locked until 2nd level feels kind of silly from a balance perspective, and also could feel underwhelming to 1st level warlock players, as all the other spellcasters get to use abilities that aren't cantrips while they have to wait until next level.

EDIT: These are the invocations I would consider re-tooling.


Hellish Rebuke: You surround yourself with threatening flames. For one minute, the first creature who damages you takes 1d10 fire damage per Warlock level. They may attempt a Dexterity save for half damage.
For a least invocation, I feel this essence rapidly does far too much damage for its duration. Since it lasts for 10 rounds, which is likely the entire fight, the 1d10 damage per level gets out of hand fast. For a direct comparison, lets take a level 5 warlock. This spell will deal 5d10 damage to the first person who successfully hits him over the course of 10 rounds. Now they do get a dex save for half damage, but that still averages out to 15 fire damage on a successful save. So just for a generous estimate, lets assume only half of the full 10 rounds are used, whether its just because the fight is over that quickly or people miss you, and that all five of those hits save. That still averages out to a total of 75 fire damage among all targets. Now compare that lowball estimate to a wizard casting fireball or lightning bolt, as they will have just gotten access to it at 3rd level. Both of those spells do 8d6 damage, which averages out to 40 damage if the targets fail their save. Of course, these are AOE spells, so the total damage they deal is likely going to be 3 or 4 times that. However: a 5th level caster only has a single 3rd level spell slot, whereas the warlock gets to cast Hellish rebuke for free at the start of every encounter.

I would personally change the starting damage to 2d6 fire damage at level one, and then an additional d6 for every warlock level above first. So 1d6 fire damage per (Warlock level +1). It still deals a respectable amount of damage, but it doesn't feel head and shoulders above the other least eldritch essences.


Beguiling Influence: You gain proficiency in the Deception and Persuasion skills, and may add twice your Proficiency bonus to checks made using those skills. You also learn the Friends cantrip.
Expertise in both skills seems a bit much, as it effectively makes a warlock who chooses this objectively better than a social rogue. I would limit it to expertise in your choice of one or the other.


Shadow of Moil: You surround yourself with flame-like shadows. For one minute, you have resistance to radiant damage, and whenever a creature within 10 feet of you hits you with an attack, the shadows lash out at that creature, dealing it 2d8 necrotic damage. In addition, the shadows turn dim light within 10 feet of you into darkness, and bright light in the same area to dim light.
My problem with this is the opposite of Hellish rebuke. For an ability that you can't get until 11th level it's damage is too low, especially since it doesn't scale. It does have other effects and it hits anyone within 10 feet, so maybe double it to 4d8 necrotic damage.


Maddening Blast: Your Eldritch Blast deals psychic damage. A creature struck by it must make a Wisdom save or have its Intelligence and Charisma scores reduced to 1 for one minute. The creature can’t cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them. They may make a new save at the start of each round to end this effect. If they succeed on a save against it, they cannot be affected again until you have completed a long rest.
For an at-will ranged attack ability, this feels a little more potent than it should be. Instead of reducing Int and Cha to 1, maybe impose disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls that use those scores. The secondary effects appear fine though, since a successful save protects them for a day against it.

Hopefully this helps

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-22, 10:52 AM
Congratulations it feels really iconic so far! I would however suggest that you give the class invocations from the first level onwards. Keeping it on second level has always been a multiclass tax.

Make invocations available at 1st level. With invocations now being emphasized much more, keeping them locked until 2nd level feels kind of silly from a balance perspective, and also could feel underwhelming to 1st level warlock players, as all the other spellcasters get to use abilities that aren't cantrips while they have to wait until next level.
I disagree-- look at the existing classes. Every class gets a huge, iconic feature at 2nd level-- Barbarians get Reckless Attack, Bards get Jack of All Trades, Clerics get Channel Divinity, and so on, all the way through Wizard getting their arcane tradition. Especially when it's a really multiclass-friendly ability like Action Surge or Cunning Action, it's almost always at 2nd.

Besides, 1st level is hardly sparse. You're getting two cantrips, Eldritch+Agonizing Blast (essentially), and whatever nifty 1st level ability your Patron gives you. You won't be bored.


One question are you considering designing alternate subclass features or to keep existing ones?
The existing ones-- just noticed that I didn't specify "as the PHB Warlock" on those.


I love the idea of this warlock change. A number of the invocations may need some balancing (in particular, the dark invocation that reduces int and char to 1 seems a bit overblown to me), but on the whole their power level seems about right. The only changes I would make (which other people have suggested) are
a) add some unique invocations to each pact type. Perhaps they gain a bonus invocation at certain levels, similar to the 2 cantrips they gain at first level.
Don't forget, Maddening Blast is a 9th-level-spell equivalent, with a new save each round. (If anything, I think it's underpowered for 17th)

More pact/patron specific invocations are definitely on the table. I'm thinking that each gets four unique Invocations, one for each power level.

Quintus Vorenus
2018-09-23, 04:41 AM
Ok I can dig, I misunderstood and thought this warlock was only ganing the new cantrips and no other patron feature. It's cool as is.

Garfunion
2018-09-24, 11:22 AM
I really like this version of the Warlock. Now to find a way to put the pact magic system into the sorcerer class, including the expanded spell lists.

Mith
2018-09-24, 09:05 PM
I may talk with DM and see about switching my Warlock over to this concept. I like this more than the Short Rest of the PHB. I am of the opinion that Charisma casters should ve "weird" casters that do not quite mesh with everyone else. I'll be running an Archfey Tomelock whenever we get a session arranged.

A few questions, since I never played the original 3.5 Warlock:

Is there a limit to how many Greater Invocations one could have, or convert lower Invocations up, or is the idea to switch to Greater Invocations as soon as they become available?

I am assuming one chooses what blast shapes apply to their blasts when they pick a target? So you could have both Brimstone and Frostrimme Invocations and choose when to apply them?

In more general question, does this cause any changes to Celestial Warlock's healing abilities, or will that fall under Patron Specific Invocations?

Gluteus_Maximus
2018-09-25, 12:23 AM
3rd level Arms Of Hadar at will at 5th level? A little much

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-25, 12:22 PM
I really like this version of the Warlock. Now to find a way to put the pact magic system into the sorcerer class, including the expanded spell lists.
I mean, you could probably take the RAWarlock's pact magic/mystic arcanum progression and copy it wholesale to the Sorcerer, I don't think they have any spells that would be problematic on short-rest casting.


I may talk with DM and see about switching my Warlock over to this concept. I like this more than the Short Rest of the PHB. I am of the opinion that Charisma casters should ve "weird" casters that do not quite mesh with everyone else. I'll be running an Archfey Tomelock whenever we get a session arranged.

A few questions, since I never played the original 3.5 Warlock:

Is there a limit to how many Greater Invocations one could have, or convert lower Invocations up, or is the idea to switch to Greater Invocations as soon as they become available?
I kept the original clause about how you have to replace an Invocation with one you could have picked at that level, but I realize that's a little hard to apply here-- I'll switch it to "of the same grade." (So you'd have 4 least, 6 lesser, 6 greater, and 4 dark, assuming you always picked the highest-available options)


I am assuming one chooses what blast shapes apply to their blasts when they pick a target? So you could have both Brimstone and Frostrimme Invocations and choose when to apply them?
Correct.


In more general question, does this cause any changes to Celestial Warlock's healing abilities, or will that fall under Patron Specific Invocations?
Healing Light still works; the bonus spells obviously don't. One of the patron-specific invocations I'm working on will boost the power of that healing significantly.


3rd level Arms Of Hadar at will at 5th level? A little much
Eh. It's 1d6/2 levels in a 10ft burst around you, save for none. That's not that much, and it's hardly a low-risk proposition.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-25, 02:20 PM
Update: holy crap that was a lot, but just shy of 40 new pact- or patron-specific invocations are live.

Mith
2018-09-25, 03:26 PM
Update: holy crap that was a lot, but just shy of 40 new pact- or patron-specific invocations are live.

Looks awesome. Do you plan to balance patron and pact specific invocations, blessings, etc., so that the same number of specific options are available for each selection, or will there be an overall balance that will work out to be equivalent.


I really like this version of the Warlock. Now to find a way to put the pact magic system into the sorcerer class, including the expanded spell lists.

My first thought off the top of my head is Charisma bonus more spells for bonus spells, with the bonus list selection going across the arcane/divine list to fit theme (Draconic Sorcerers get ways to manipulate chosen element, plus other terrain effects of their heritage, (so Green dragons can Summon Woodland creatures to emulate the draconic manipulation of local animals.)

As far as casting goes, this is where I would do the spell point system with metamagic costing spell points to make one resource to manage, which refreshes on a short rest.

But I am biased to the Spellpoint+Sorcery Point fix for Sorcerors, that while it is probably too much in the other direction, it works as a better starting point in my opinion.

ninjabot
2018-09-25, 03:48 PM
What happens if you choose to use two shapes that both change the damage type? Do you do half one type and half the other type, choose on of the new types, all the damage is both types? Something else that I'm not thinking of?

Garfunion
2018-09-25, 04:16 PM
The more I read blast shapes, the more I think that the multi-attack feature should be a blast shape.
Currently when the Warlock has 4 blasts, they can apply 1-2 blast shapes to each blast. That is a lot of shenanigans going on.

You can have the multi-blast shape be applied last. So with Dire Blast feature; you cast Eldritch Blast apply Brimstone Blast(shape) then Multi-Blast(shape).

Unless I’m reading it wrong.

Nifft
2018-09-25, 05:43 PM
Hmm. Lots of good stuff here. Also a few oddities.

It's weird that the term Eldritch Essence got re-used from 3.5e, but for something totally unrelated to the 3.5e Eldritch Essence term. I'd suggest using a new term (Eldritch Stance? Aspect of Arcana?) -- and I'm not sure that you get to use Reactions on your turn, so I'd suggest not using that word. Maybe say something like:


If you're not surprised when you roll initiative, you can activate one _______ as you roll initiative. If you are surprised, you can instead activate one _____ at the start of your first turn after rolling initiative.


It's also weird that the term Blast Shape covers both shapes and essences. I'd suggest changing that to Blast Effect or Eldritch Mutation or anything else that isn't a defined Warlock term already.


I'll hopefully have time to give the new stuff a look later.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-25, 05:57 PM
Looks awesome. Do you plan to balance patron and pact specific invocations, blessings, etc., so that the same number of specific options are available for each selection, or will there be an overall balance that will work out to be equivalent.
Each Pact and Patron gets 4 unique invocations, one of each tier.




What happens if you choose to use two shapes that both change the damage type? Do you do half one type and half the other type, choose on of the new types, all the damage is both types? Something else that I'm not thinking of?

The more I read blast shapes, the more I think that the multi-attack feature should be a blast shape.
Currently when the Warlock has 4 blasts, they can apply 1-2 blast shapes to each blast. That is a lot of shenanigans going on.
I'll have to work on the wording...you can only apply one shape to any given "casting" of your blast. If you apply, say, Brimstone Blast at 5th level, you shoot two bolts that do fire damage and set you alight. No mixing and matching.


Hmm. Lots of good stuff here. Also a few oddities.

It's weird that the term Eldritch Essence got re-used from 3.5e, but for something totally unrelated to the 3.5e Eldritch Essence term. I'd suggest using a new term (Eldritch Stance? Aspect of Arcana?) -- and I'm not sure that you get to use Reactions on your turn, so I'd suggest not using that word. Maybe say something like:


If you're not surprised when you roll initiative, you can activate one _______ as you roll initiative. If you are surprised, you can instead activate one _____ at the start of your first turn after rolling initiative.


It's also weird that the term Blast Shape covers both shapes and essences. I'd suggest changing that to Blast Effect or Eldritch Mutation or anything else that isn't a defined Warlock term already.


I'll hopefully have time to give the new stuff a look later.
Good ideas.

(Actually, that reminds me; I should integrate my Dragon Patron homebrew with this, because why not...)

ninjabot
2018-09-25, 06:55 PM
I'll have to work on the wording...you can only apply one shape to any given "casting" of your blast. If you apply, say, Brimstone Blast at 5th level, you shoot two bolts that do fire damage and set you alight. No mixing and matching.

I was asking about after you get dire blast at 13th level and can apply two at once.

Nifft
2018-09-26, 12:06 PM
Eldritch Essences are special bits of magic that activate in times of great need. When you roll initiative, you may activate a single Eldritch Essence as a reaction. If you are surprised, you may activate one as a reaction on your first turn instead.




Dark Foresight: For one minute, you can’t be surprised and has advantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. Additionally, other creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls against you. If you are successfully stuck by an attack, this effect ends.


What's the intended interaction here?

Garfunion
2018-09-26, 12:32 PM
What's the intended interaction here? if I had to guess, because you are using a reaction to activate an essence when surprised on your turn. You can act normally on your turn during a surprise round.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-26, 01:27 PM
I was asking about after you get dire blast at 13th level and can apply two at once.
Ah, gotcha, sorry.

I'd say that the damage would count as whichever would be more advantageous. I'll add it.


What's the intended interaction here?

if I had to guess, because you are using a reaction to activate an essence when surprised on your turn. You can act normally on your turn during a surprise round.
Oh, you're right. Hmm. It should nullify surprise; will edit.

Garfunion
2018-09-26, 03:25 PM
Eldritch blast feature needs better wording. As it is currently written, I can cast eldritch blast while tied up and gagged.

Here is how I would write the feature.

Eldritch Blast
A beam of crackling energy streaks toward a creature within 120ft. Use your action to make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10+Charisma modifier force damage. You must have at least one hand free and the ability to speak to use this ability.

Your Eldritch Blast creates more than one beam when you reach higher Warlock levels: two beams at 5th level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level. You can direct the beams at the same target or at different ones. Make a separate attack roll for each beam.

no need to state the use of charisma for the attack roll. The Warlock’s Spellcasting Ability says what to use.

I may not be seeing the bigger picture, so what I wrote maybe completely wrong.

noob
2018-09-26, 04:09 PM
Eldritch blast feature needs better wording. As it is currently written, I can cast eldritch blast while tied up and gagged.

Here is how I would write the feature.

Eldritch Blast
A beam of crackling energy streaks toward a creature within 120ft. Use your action to make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10+Charisma modifier force damage. You must have at least one hand free and the ability to speak to use this ability.

Your Eldritch Blast creates more than one beam when you reach higher Warlock levels: two beams at 5th level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level. You can direct the beams at the same target or at different ones. Make a separate attack roll for each beam.

no need to state the use of charisma for the attack roll. The Warlock’s Spellcasting Ability says what to use.

I may not be seeing the bigger picture, so what I wrote maybe completely wrong.
What?
You are supposed to not be able to blast while tied and gagged?
So how do superheroes gets out of their bindings?
(ps: tons of superheroes are just like warlocks and are best simulated with warlocks)

Garfunion
2018-09-26, 04:28 PM
What?
You are supposed to not be able to blast while tied and gagged?
So how do superheroes gets out of their bindings?
(ps: tons of superheroes are just like warlocks and are best simulated with warlocks) While I agree with you, it’s a fun idea to be able to shoot in eldritch blast out of your butt (out of your eye if you want to be unoriginal). It’s just too powerful.


So how do superheroes gets out of their bindings? Also eldritch blast can’t break bindings, it can only target creatures. Unless the creature is what is binding you.

noob
2018-09-26, 04:31 PM
While I agree with you, it’s a fun idea to be able to shoot in eldritch blast out of your butt (out of your eye if you want to be unoriginal). It’s just too powerful.

Also eldritch blast can’t break bindings, it can only target creatures. Unless the creature is what is binding you.

oh so it is not an all around power I guess.
I hoped there would be aoe shapes allowing to hit stuff other than creatures.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-26, 04:46 PM
As it is currently written, I can cast eldritch blast while tied up and gagged.

no need to state the use of charisma for the attack roll. The Warlock’s Spellcasting Ability says what to use.
Fair point about components. I think I do need to state Cha, though-- it isn't a spell and it isn't an invocation, so there's nothing that's specifically applicable.


Also eldritch blast can’t break bindings, it can only target creatures. Unless the creature is what is binding you.
That is a terrible pedantic close-text reading that I can't imagine was the intention. It also doesn't appear in this version, which only says "target."

Garfunion
2018-09-26, 05:08 PM
Fair point about components. I think I do need to state Cha, though-- it isn't a spell and it isn't an invocation, so there's nothing that's specifically applicable.
But you do use spell attack, which is already defined in the “Spellcasting Ability” section of the Warlock.


That is a terrible pedantic close-text reading that I can't imagine was the intention. It also doesn't appear in this version, which only says "target." Your right. I reading through the blast shapes to see if the lack of “creature” would cause conflict.

I did find two instances of Brimstone Blast, one in the least and one in the lesser. Unless the intent was to allow the fiend pact access to it sooner.


Also if I come off as being rude(negative), I’m sorry. I just really like your version of the Warlock and I want it to be the best and balanced as it can be.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-26, 05:34 PM
But you do use spell attack, which is already defined in the “Spellcasting Ability” section of the Warlock.
Your right. I reading through the blast shapes to see if the lack of “creature” would cause conflict.

I did find two instances of Brimstone Blast, one in the least and one in the lesser. Unless the intent was to allow the fiend pact access to it sooner.
What "spellcasting ability section?" :p

That's a mistake-- it was generic, but I reassigned it to Fiend.


Also if I come off as being rude(negative), I’m sorry. I just really like your version of the Warlock and I want it to be the best and balanced as it can be.
Nah, you're good. Sorry if I sounded nasty in reply.

Garfunion
2018-09-26, 05:41 PM
What "spellcasting ability section?" :p
You need it to define the saving throw DC that some invocations require.


Nah, you're good. Sorry if I sounded nasty in reply. :)

Garfunion
2018-09-26, 05:52 PM
Also, where is that dragon Otherworldly Patron? I’m very interested in seeing it.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-26, 06:25 PM
Also, where is that dragon Otherworldly Patron? I’m very interested in seeing it.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?563755-The-Dragon-Patron-%28Dragonfire-Adept-adaptation%29

Unfortunately, when I wrote it I had the very clever idea of having a custom "dragon breath" cantrip (like the old Dragonfire Adept), which means it's going to take a bit more work to import.

Mith
2018-09-26, 11:37 PM
Just skimming the Dragon Warlock, but could you just have Eldritch blast be a Verbal spell, and make the visual for a Draconic Warlock using EB as a breath weapon attack? Or do you not get the damage range you want from EB for a Dragonsbreath cantrip?

Lille
2018-09-28, 01:24 PM
It's worth mentioning that while Pact of the Blade isn't inherently melee-specific, your versions of Pact Smite and Eldritch Glaive are. I get Eldritch Glaive, but is there a reason that Pact Smite is melee-only in this?

As for Dragon Patron, maybe just give the Dragon Patron a "Draconic Breath" Blast Effect, with an effect similar to the original cantrip? That might work.

Garfunion
2018-09-28, 04:16 PM
I haven’t forgotten about this thread. I’m currently making some changes to your Warlock and will be posting it here.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-28, 05:28 PM
The Dragon Patron
You’ve made a pact with one of the great scaled ones, vowing to work towards your patron’s goals in exchange for a mere sliver of their arcane might.

Dragontouched: At 1st level, your skin becomes thick and scaly, granting you a base AC of 16 (your Dexterity modifier doesn't affect this number). You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield's bonus as normal. In addition, you learn to read and speak Draconic, if you did not already, and have Advantage on Charisma checks to interact with dragons and Intelligence checks to recall information about them.

Dragon Breath: At 1st level, you do not gain the Eldritch Blast ability normally granted to warlocks, and you cannot learn Blast Effect invocations. Instead, as an action you may exhale a cloud of elemental energy, producing one of the following effects:

Acid—All creatures in a 30ft line must make a Constitution save or take 1d8 acid damage.
Fire—All creatures in a 15ft cone must make a Dexterity save or take 1d8 fire damage.
Frost— All creatures in a 15ft cone must make a Constitution save or take 1d8 cold damage.
Lightning—All creatures in a 30ft line must make a Dexterity save or take 1d8 lightning damage.
Poison--All creatures in a 5ft radius must make Constitution saves or take 1d8 poison damage.


At 5th level, the ability's range increases to 30ft (for a cone), 60ft (for a line), or 10ft (for a radius), and its damage increases to 2d8. At 11th, the range increases to a 60ft cone, 120ft line, or 20ft radius, and its damage increases to 3d8. At 17th its damage increases to 4d8.

In addition, while you cannot learn Blast Effect invocations, you can lean Breath Effect Invocations.

Roaring Breath: At 6th level, you gain the ability to drastically increase the power of your breath weapon, at the cost of temporarily burning it out. When using your Draconic Breath ability, you may choose to double the number of damage dice it deals. However, after doing so, you cannot use it again for a short time. At the start of each turn, roll 1d6. If you roll a 5 or a 6, you may resume using the cantrip as normal.

Dragonkin: At 10th level, the AC granted by your scales improves to 18, and you gain Advantage on saves against the breath weapons and frightful presence abilities of dragons.

Dragon Wings: At 14th level, you sprout a pair of leathery wings, allowing you to fly at a speed of 40ft per round.


Note: All are Cruel Blessings
Least

Draconic Knowledge: You may add half your Proficiency bonus to Intelligence checks (round up). Once per long rest, you may cast Identify without using a spell slot.
Entangling Breath: When you use your Draconic Breath ability, you may choose to reduce the damage by half. If you do, enemies who fail their save are restrained for one round.
Masterful Breath: When you use your Draconic Breath ability, you may exclude any number of targets within the affected area.


Lesser

Draconic Flight: As a bonus action, you may sprout wings, allowing you to fly at a speed of 40ft/round for 1 hour. If you already had a flight speed, you may Dash as a bonus action for 1 hour instead. After you have used this ability, you cannot do so again until you have completed a long rest.
Sleep Breath: As an action, you may exhale a cloud of soporific gas. All targets in a 30ft cone are affected as though by a Sleep spell, as though from a spell slot of one-half your Warlock level (round up). At 11th level this range increases to a 60ft cone.
Lingering Breath: Enemies who fail their save against your Dragon Breath ability suffer an additional penalty.
Acid—The target takes acid damage equal to half your breath weapon damage at the start of your next turn.
Fire—The target catches aflame, taking 1d6 fire damage at the start of each of your turns until it or another creature takes an action to extinguish the flames.
Frost— The target cannot move or take reactions for 1 round.
Lightning— The target suffers Disadvantage on Dexterity checks and saves for 1 round.
Poison-- Your poison breath weapon ignores poison resistance and immunity.

Greater

Frightful Presence: When you use your Roaring Breath feature, all enemies within 60ft must make Wisdom saves or be Frightened for 1 minute. They may repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to this ability for the next 24 hours.
Wingstorm: As a bonus action, you may briefly manifest a pair of wings-- or use your own-- to produce a tremendous gust of wind. All creatures within 10ft must make Str saves or take 2d6 bludgeoning damage and be pushed 10ft.


Dark

Discorporating Breath of Bahamut: Once per short rest, you may exhale a bolt of pure energy. All creatures in a 120ft line must make Constitution saves. On a failure, they take 10d6+40 damage; on a success, they take half that. If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, it is disintegrated, as the spell. This ability affects nonmagical objects and magical constructs as the spell does.
Fivefold Breath of Tiamat: Once per short rest, you may use your Dragon Breath ability five times as part of a single action, once for each element. Creatures caught in one or more of the affected areas make a single Dexterity save; on a failure they take full damage from each effect that hit them, and on a success they take half.



----------------

Just skimming the Dragon Warlock, but could you just have Eldritch blast be a Verbal spell, and make the visual for a Draconic Warlock using EB as a breath weapon attack? Or do you not get the damage range you want from EB for a Dragonsbreath cantrip?
The Dragon patron was based off the old Dragonfire Adept-- a mechanically similar class, but whose schtick was "at-will AoE breath weapons," rather than the Warlock's single-target blast.


It's worth mentioning that while Pact of the Blade isn't inherently melee-specific, your versions of Pact Smite and Eldritch Glaive are. I get Eldritch Glaive, but is there a reason that Pact Smite is melee-only in this?
Oversight--I'll fix it.


I haven’t forgotten about this thread. I’m currently making some changes to your Warlock and will be posting it here.
What are you looking at changing?

Garfunion
2018-09-28, 07:07 PM
What are you looking at changing?

Otherworldly Patron
No change

Pact Magic
Your arcane research and the magic bestowed on you by your patron have given you facility with spells.

Some of your Warlock class features require you to make a spell attack or has your target make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The spell attack and spell saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

•Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your warlock spells.


Mystic Arcanum
At 1st level, your patron bestows upon you a magical secret called an arcanum. You know the Eldritch Blast and Prestidigitation cantrips. You will learn additional cantrip determined by your patron choice.

Eldritch Invocations
In your study of occult lore, you have unearthed eldritch invocations, fragments of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.

At 2nd level, you gain two eldritch invocations of your choice. Your invocation options are detailed at the end of the class description. When you gain certain warlock levels, you gain additional invocations of your choice, as shown in the Invocations Known column of the Warlock table.

Many invocations have unique restrictions, they are described below;

•Essence modify your Eldritch Blast cantrip. They do not take an action to activate, but you may only apply a single Essence to your eldritch blast cantrip at a time. Additionally if more the one Essence or class ability would have you add your charisma modifier to your Eldritch Blast cantrip as extra damage, the damage sources do not stack.
•Cruel Blessing(s) are special bits of magic that activate in times of great need. When you roll initiative, you may activate a single Cruel Blessing as a reaction. If you are surprised, you may activate one as a bonus action on your first turn instead.
•Dark invocations are very powerful. You can only learn a maximum of five of these invocations.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.

Pact Boon
At 3rd level, your otherworldly patron bestows a gift upon you for your loyal service. You gain one of the following features of your choice.

•Pact of the Chain
You do not need the materials components to cast this spell, as a ritual.

•Pact of the Blade
No change

•Pact of the Tome
No change.

Ability Score Improvement
No change

Greater Essence
Starting at 7th level, when an Essence that you apply to your eldritch blast cantrip has an effect that only targets one creature, it may now effect every creature hit by your eldritch blast cantrip.

Dire Blast
Beginning at 13th level, you may apply two Essences at once. If both would alter the damage type, treat your blast as whichever of the two types would be more advantageous.

Eldritch Master
At 20th level, you may activate two Cruel Blessing abilities simultaneously.

Otherworldly Patrons
At 1st level, you have struck a bargain with an otherworldly being of your choice. Your choice grants you special features, as described in the Player's Handbook and other sources, as well as two cantrips as shown below.

•The Archfey
Mystic Arcanum: You learn Druidcraft and Minor Illusion cantrips.
•The Celestial
Mystic Arcanum: You learn Sacred Flame and Light cantrips.
•The Fiend:
Mystic Arcanum: You learn Thaumaturgy and Control Flames cantrips.
•The Great Old One
Mystic Arcanum: You learn Thaumaturgy and Message cantrips.
•The Hexblade
Mystic Arcanum: You learn True Strike and Blade Ward cantrips.
•The Raven Queen
Mystic Arcanum: You learn Guidance and Message cantrips.
•The Undying
Mystic Arcanum: You learn Spare the Dying and Resistance cantrips.

Eldritch Invocations List
If an eldritch invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites. A level prerequisite refers to your level in this class.

Agonizing Blast (essence)
Prerequisite: Eldritch Blast cantrip
When you cast eldritch blast cantrip, one target you hit takes additional damage equal to your Charisma modifier. This damage is the same type as your eldritch blast.

Armor of Shadows
You can cast Mage Armor on yourself at will, without expending material components.

Ascendant Step
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast the Levitate spell on yourself at will, without expending material components.

................
Cloak of Flies (Cruel Blessing)
You surround yourself with a magical aura that looks like buzzing flies. The aura extends 5 feet from you in every direction, but not through total cover, and lasts for one minute. The aura grants you advantage on Charisma (Intimidation) checks and you gain resistance to poison damage.
Any other creature that starts its turn in the aura takes poison damage equal to your Warlock level.

I’m still using your least to dark invocation leveling scale just using the level requirement instead.

I’m currently looking at all the printed invocations and making changes using your list as a guide. I’ll be adding any new invocations you created afterwards.

Mith
2018-09-28, 08:30 PM
The Dragon patron was based off the old Dragonfire Adept-- a mechanically similar class, but whose schtick was "at-will AoE breath weapons," rather than the Warlock's single-target blast.

Fair enough. I like what you have posted. My suggestion was more Dovokiin inspired in terms of DRAGON SHOUTS!
......

Now I am picturing Brian Blessed as a Dragon Adept with additional Thunder Damage of his Breath attacks just being his normal voice.

Nifft
2018-09-28, 09:53 PM
Mostly this is good. Lots of stuff I miss about 3.5e Warlock is making a come back.

50% of it is stuff I'd do differently... so I might do a variant of it.

If you don't mind, Grod?

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-29, 10:23 AM
Mostly this is good. Lots of stuff I miss about 3.5e Warlock is making a come back.

50% of it is stuff I'd do differently... so I might do a variant of it.

If you don't mind, Grod?
Go for it, mate.

What kind of stuff are you thinking about changing?

Nifft
2018-09-29, 11:57 AM
Go for it, mate.

What kind of stuff are you thinking about changing?

Adding a short-rest resource pool and keying some effects off it.

Bundling effects so the level 2 Disguise Self gains the ability to also Alter Self and Polymorph at higher levels.

noob
2018-09-29, 03:31 PM
Adding a short-rest resource pool and keying some effects off it.

Bundling effects so the level 2 Disguise Self gains the ability to also Alter Self and Polymorph at higher levels.

The fact it have no resource limits at any point is precisely to make it less castery and more like fighters: the resource you use is hp not weird shenanigans.
if you add short rest resources you could use as well the default warlock.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-29, 06:32 PM
The fact it have no resource limits at any point is precisely to make it less castery and more like fighters: the resource you use is hp not weird shenanigans.
if you add short rest resources you could use as well the default warlock.
You don't have to go full spellcaster. "You may use 3 greater invocations per short rest" is a solid mechanism for allowing more powerful abilities.

Nifft
2018-09-29, 06:53 PM
The fact it have no resource limits at any point is precisely to make it less castery and more like fighters: the resource you use is hp not weird shenanigans.
if you add short rest resources you could use as well the default warlock. Hell no, this is perniciously wrong.


You don't have to go full spellcaster. "You may use 3 greater invocations per short rest" is a solid mechanism for allowing more powerful abilities. Yes, absolutely.

Specifically the short rest resource I want to use is Ki / Sorcery points, which makes Warlock more compatible with multi-classing. (But first I need to finish my Sorc re-write which uses short rest Sorcery points...)

With those points, I can say things like...

• Dark Foresight: You have advantage on initiative checks. If you are surprised, you can spend a Pact Point to not be surprised.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-05, 08:05 PM
Revisiting this after a while. Going to make some test character tomorrow, and I'm really looking forward to it. I might even ask Tawmis to help me with so e story elements ^^

It would be a nice quality of life improvement to have the Invocations from the official content written up in full, just to have all the information in one place :)


EDIT 1: I'm starting making a test characer now. First thing I changed was the wording on Brimstone Blast, to put it more in line with similar existing effects:

"If the target or a creature within 5 feet of it uses a bonus action to put out the flames, or if some other effect douses the flames (such as the target being submerged in water), the effect ends."

EDIT 2: Eldritch Smite seems weird. Is there a reason for not making it a Blasting Effect "When you use Eldritch Blast against a creature within 5 feet of you it counts as a melee weapon attack and..."

Also, It doesn't really allow for a melee warlock without going hexblade. If I want to make a melee Fiend warlock I already have +3 dex, which means medium armor gives me nothing. The invocation then only removes the disadvantage from attacking within 5 feet. Might be benefitial for dealing more damage to a single creature at level 5, but at that point I already have access to Lesser Invocation, which makes me wonder why Eldritch Smite is even available as a least invocation.
Seems like these features are pretty useless without the Hexblade patron.

Are invocations restricted by Pact or Subclass when it simply states "Blade" and not whether its "Hexblade" or "Blade Pact"?

BerzerkerUnit
2019-07-05, 11:03 PM
I’m lifting Consume Luck for my own use but I don’t see that as a top tier ability if it’s limited to 1/rest or even Cha mod per rest.

Permanent eyebite and no invulnerability is probably a break. If I recall Eyebite has 2 save or suck effects that you can just continuously subject a target to. Depending on the foe it might almost always be a better choice. If they became immune to that specific curse for 24 hours it wouldn’t be a problem.

Chains of Carceri faces a similar problem by removing the limited typing of targets.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-06, 06:28 PM
Edited my post above.

Also, can I cast my Burning Hands and Command spells from my Patron, or is that feature removed?

EDIT 1: I'm really loving the way this class is set up, and I feel like it could become a five-star alternative with some clean-up and TLC. It's kinda tricky to put neatly onto a character sheet, but I think I've done alright. (https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ByZX13jRxr) I had to guess how you wanted the Patron Spells to be set up, so I just made it once per short rest. The character looks much better rounded after I added those spells in, it really makes the Patrons feel like actual subclasses.

Ability Scores, Skills and Hit Points are all based on houserules, so don't worry about that bit.

Yakk
2019-07-07, 03:02 PM
until you use this ability again.
Why? Just have the text accumulate. :)

notXanathar
2019-07-08, 02:42 PM
I really like this, but I do see one problem: the cantrip lists for the different patrons seem wildly unbalanced. The Archfey gets some good ones, whereas the Hexblade gets ones that, in almost all cases, are strictly worse than not casting them and making a normal attack. My only conclusion can be that this was done for rebalancing purposes. Was this the case?(edited immediately after posting to put a question mark at the end, rather than a full stop.)

skaeren
2019-07-17, 07:43 PM
This is, frankly, what the Warlock should have been to begin with. How would you convert the beholder patron here to be used with your Warlock?

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/5ubc9v/warlock_3_patrons_the_beholder_the_heavenly/

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-18, 02:34 AM
This is, frankly, what the Warlock should have been to begin with. How would you convert the beholder patron here to be used with your Warlock?

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/5ubc9v/warlock_3_patrons_the_beholder_the_heavenly/



Otherworldly Patron: At 1st level, you have struck a bargain with an otherworldly being of your choice. Your choice grants you special features, as described in the Player's Handbook and other sources, as well as two cantrips as shown below.

Just pick two cantrips and your done! Thanks for the share btw, love the beholder patron.

skaeren
2019-07-18, 04:01 AM
Yea, playing Dragonheist, and my DM has approved, as a backup character, a beholder (a spawn of Xanithar). However, it's 6th level ability depends on burning a spell slot. That is more what I was curious about. Using it at will might be a bit OP, but considering the random nature, perhaps not.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-18, 07:07 AM
Yea, playing Dragonheist, and my DM has approved, as a backup character, a beholder (a spawn of Xanithar). However, it's 6th level ability depends on burning a spell slot. That is more what I was curious about. Using it at will might be a bit OP, but considering the random nature, perhaps not.

What? No, not at all. The Eye Rays definitely have to be limited by a resource. Did I imply otherwise? I'm confuse.

theVoidWatches
2019-07-18, 09:32 AM
I think Skaeren means that the patron has an ability which requires spending a spell slot, but this Warlock redesign doesn't give any spell slots.

Personally, I would say to make it a 1/short rest ability that upgrades to 2/short rest at level 11 and 3/short rest at 17. You have one use less than you would as a normal warlock, but those uses aren't competing with other spells, so I think it balances out.

Bjarkmundur
2019-07-18, 02:41 PM
I think Skaeren means that the patron has an ability which requires spending a spell slot, but this Warlock redesign doesn't give any spell slots.

Personally, I would say to make it a 1/short rest ability that upgrades to 2/short rest at level 11 and 3/short rest at 17. You have one use less than you would as a normal warlock, but those uses aren't competing with other spells, so I think it balances out.
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