Cleric - Domain of Battle (PEACH)

[Oramac]

This is a rough draft, first iteration of a Cleric domain of battle. The idea was to give the Cleric more inventive to engage in melee combat than even a War Cleric gets.

Domain of Battle (homebrewery) (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/ByAgaEOuQ)

[nickl_2000]

Hey there :)

One major comment and issue that I see
Battle Healer is very broken. Even in the case where you aren't applying the bag of rats test, you can still heal every single round that you hit. Considering that you are attacking 2 times a round at level 6, you will be healing all the flipping time. This needs to be limited, maybe the amount of times per day, maybe it gives temp HP at a lower die roll (although this is still probably to much).

Honestly, I think it should be be made to give temp HP and triggers when you strike a killing blow (like the fiendlock, but it can also be given to others so that it is slightly different). If you wanted to replace it completely, you could consider a fighting style.


Channel Divinity - Guided Strike - So this is stolen directly from the War Cleric. Channel Divinities tend to be different for each domain and is something special that the domain gets. As such I would try to find something else that seem appropriate. Maybe something like
Channel Divinity - Inspire Courage - When you use this channel divinity you remove all fear effects from allies within 30 feet of you.
Channel Divinity - Radiant Blast - When you use this channel divinity a divine power blows out from you healing all allies within 30 feet by 2d6 and causing 2d6 radiant damage to all enemies.
Channel Divinity - Radiant Nova - When you hit with a melee weapon attack, you may cause a burst of radiant power to blast out. All creatures within 10 feet of the creature struck (besides yourself) must make a Con save against your spell DC or be blinded until the start of your next turn.

[Vogie]

I like the concept, especially the 6th level extra attack.

I think that battle healer should be able to be used only a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier per long rest. This would follow the normal scaling of the cleric class' abilities as a whole.

I'd want a better Channel divinity - Guided Strike is great for Sharpshooters & GWMs but less so as a neat short-rest abilities. I'd like to see something like:

A Smite Effect (Wrathful, Branding, et cetera)
A Challenge/Compelled Duel effect
A Command Maneuver / Coordinated Strike effect that allows you to attack once, then give an ally a chance to attack.

[Oramac]

Hey there :)

One major comment and issue that I see
Battle Healer is very broken. Even in the case where you aren't applying the bag of rats test, you can still heal every single round that you hit. Considering that you are attacking 2 times a round at level 6, you will be healing all the flipping time. This needs to be limited, maybe the amount of times per day, maybe it gives temp HP at a lower die roll (although this is still probably to much).

Honestly, I think it should be be made to give temp HP and triggers when you strike a killing blow (like the fiendlock, but it can also be given to others so that it is slightly different). If you wanted to replace it completely, you could consider a fighting style.


Channel Divinity - Guided Strike - So this is stolen directly from the War Cleric. Channel Divinities tend to be different for each domain and is something special that the domain gets. As such I would try to find something else that seem appropriate. Maybe something like
Channel Divinity - Inspire Courage - When you use this channel divinity you remove all fear effects from allies within 30 feet of you.
Channel Divinity - Radiant Blast - When you use this channel divinity a divine power blows out from you healing all allies within 30 feet by 2d6 and causing 2d6 radiant damage to all enemies.
Channel Divinity - Radiant Nova - When you hit with a melee weapon attack, you may cause a burst of radiant power to blast out. All creatures within 10 feet of the creature struck (besides yourself) must make a Con save against your spell DC or be blinded until the start of your next turn.


I like the concept, especially the 6th level extra attack.

I think that battle healer should be able to be used only a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier per long rest. This would follow the normal scaling of the cleric class' abilities as a whole.

I'd want a better Channel divinity - Guided Strike is great for Sharpshooters & GWMs but less so as a neat short-rest abilities. I'd like to see something like:

A Smite Effect (Wrathful, Branding, et cetera)
A Challenge/Compelled Duel effect
A Command Maneuver / Coordinated Strike effect that allows you to attack once, then give an ally a chance to attack.


Thanks for the suggestions!!

To the point of Battle Healer: My thought process was that a Cleric, by RAW, can already attack and cast Healing Word as a bonus action. Battle Healer is still a bonus action, so the Cleric can't cast a spell on the turn they use it, and it requires that the cleric hit with a melee attack. The positive side to it is that it's a d6 instead of a d4 (better than Healing Word, worse than Cure Wounds), and it doesn't use a spell slot. It also does not allow for adding your Wisdom modifier.

I very specifically added language stating that the attack must hit an enemy creature to help pass the bag of rats test, as well.

On the subject of Channel Divinity, I think I'd tend to agree. The thought with using Guided Strike was that it, again, incentivises the cleric to be in melee and use their Battle Healer feature, since it requires a successful melee attack.

That being said, it is a direct copy of the War Cleric, so coming up with a more unique CD would be good.

Do you all have any thoughts on the other class features as well?

[kosh49]

The domain spells look good, the bonus proficiencies and divine strike are pretty standard for a melee focused cleric, and the extra attack makes sense as a way to encourage more melee combat.

Battle Healer is definitely broken. At 5th to 10th level it is roughly the same healing as a 1st level healing word and at 17th+ level it is roughly the same healing as a 4th level healing word. Requiring a bonus action means you can only use it once per round (and not on a round when you cast healing word), but from 6th level on the cleric has 2 attacks and can use this if either of them hits, so at 17th level the cleric will have nearly limitless free 4th level spell slots which is way too much. I would probably change the trigger to "when your melee weapon attack scores a critical hit against an enemy creature or reduces an enemy creature to 0 hit points" and change the effect to giving temporary hit points (I would probably keep the amount of hit points the same).

Not sure what to do with the Channel Divinity option. Maybe a coordinated strike that when you hit a creature you can use your channel divinity to have an ally attack the same creature as a reaction?

Blessing of Battle feels weak for its level. Maybe add a bonus to AC equal to the attack bonus?

[Oramac]

The domain spells look good, the bonus proficiencies and divine strike are pretty standard for a melee focused cleric, and the extra attack makes sense as a way to encourage more melee combat.

Battle Healer is definitely broken. At 5th to 10th level it is roughly the same healing as a 1st level healing word and at 17th+ level it is roughly the same healing as a 4th level healing word. Requiring a bonus action means you can only use it once per round (and not on a round when you cast healing word), but from 6th level on the cleric has 2 attacks and can use this if either of them hits, so at 17th level the cleric will have nearly limitless free 4th level spell slots which is way too much. I would probably change the trigger to "when your melee weapon attack scores a critical hit against an enemy creature or reduces an enemy creature to 0 hit points" and change the effect to giving temporary hit points (I would probably keep the amount of hit points the same).

That's a good point. I'm hesitant to change the trigger, as the less likely it is to happen, the less incentive the cleric has to actually make melee attacks. I suppose I should explain why I created this domain in the first place.

I'm currently running two games. Both have a War Cleric in them, and both are at or past 8th level as of writing this. In those 8+ levels, between both War Clerics, I can count the number of melee attacks they've made on one hand. Even just being in melee is relatively rare for them. And this has been my experience with all "melee" clerics in the past as well, not just War Domain.

So my intent was to make a domain that was not only capable of being in melee (which the war domain is), but is mechanically encouraged to engage in melee combat.

So it seems there's two options regarding Battle Healer:

1. Restrict its use in some way (Wis mod uses per long rest, etc.)

2. Nerf the hell out of it.

I'm hesitant to restrict its use, since that would remove a lot of the incentive to engage in melee, so let me see if I can nerf it substantially enough to be viable first. How about this:

"At 1st level, you gain the ability to channel divine energy to heal wounds during battle. Once on each of your turns when you hit an enemy creature with a melee weapon attack, you may use a bonus action to reach out with divine power to heal yourself or an ally within 30 feet of you that you can see. This healing is equal to half your cleric level, rounded down."

So now it's range is half that of Healing Word, and the healing is a fixed amount based on Cleric levels instead of a scaling die roll. It still requires a bonus action, and a successful melee attack.

Thoughts?


Not sure what to do with the Channel Divinity option. Maybe a coordinated strike that when you hit a creature you can use your channel divinity to have an ally attack the same creature as a reaction?

Yea the Channel Divinity is a thing. There's a lot of good ideas that have been tossed out so far, for which I am grateful. I'll definitely be changing it, but I think I want to get Battle Healer nailed down first.


Blessing of Battle feels weak for its level. Maybe add a bonus to AC equal to the attack bonus?

Really? A to-hit bonus that stacks with magic weapons feels weak? Interesting. I do like the idea of adding the AC bonus as well, though I want to make sure it's balanced.

[JNAProductions]

It's still OP. That's at-will healing that fails the bag of rats test VERY HARD, but even if the players don't abuse it, it's still far, FAR too much healing available at basically no cost.

[kosh49]

I understand the problem you are trying to fix. It just feels like healing that triggers as easily as anytime a cleric hits at least once a round out of two attacks is going to be too powerful unless the amount of healing each time it triggers is so low that it is nearly inconsequential. That is why I tried to make it less frequent. Note that my phrasing is still tied to melee attacks. Ranged attacks and spells do not trigger my suggested revision, so the more melee attacks the cleric makes the more chances the cleric has to generate free temporary hit points which can basically be given to whichever party member needs them the most.

I am not sure what kind of bonus you can generate on every melee weapon hit as part of a 1st level ability that will not be overpowered. Maybe use a bonus action to give a +1 or +2 AC to the cleric or one creature within 30 feet? That feels better to me than all that free healing, but it may still be overpowered.

[pygmybatrider]

I understand the problem you are trying to fix. It just feels like healing that triggers as easily as anytime a cleric hits at least once a round out of two attacks is going to be too powerful unless the amount of healing each time it triggers is so low that it is nearly inconsequential. That is why I tried to make it less frequent. Note that my phrasing is still tied to melee attacks. Ranged attacks and spells do not trigger my suggested revision, so the more melee attacks the cleric makes the more chances the cleric has to generate free temporary hit points which can basically be given to whichever party member needs them the most.

I am not sure what kind of bonus you can generate on every melee weapon hit as part of a 1st level ability that will not be overpowered. Maybe use a bonus action to give a +1 or +2 AC to the cleric or one creature within 30 feet? That feels better to me than all that free healing, but it may still be overpowered.

I think that changing HP to THP solves a lot of balance problems. There’s no pinball with your allies at 0 hp, and you still feel like you’re buffing yourself/your allies. Maybe an amount equal to proficiency plus wisdom modififer? Slow and steady.

[Vogie]

I think that changing HP to THP solves a lot of balance problems. There’s no pinball with your allies at 0 hp, and you still feel like you’re buffing yourself/your allies. Maybe an amount equal to proficiency plus wisdom modififer? Slow and steady.

This is probably the best option - because THP specifically doesn't stack.

Another option is to dramatically lower the HP healed. Something like


At 1st level, you gain the ability to channel divine energy to heal wounds during battle. Once on each of your turns when you hit an enemy creature with a melee weapon attack, you may use a bonus action to reach out with divine power to heal yourself or an ally within 60 feet of you that you can see for 2 HP. This increases to 3 HP at level 10 and 4 HP at level 17

And, to be fair... That's still really strong. It doesn't look strong - just reading it makes it seem really, really small, but it's incredibly powerful.

[demonslayerelf]

Honestly, I think the entire ability should be changed a bit. At-will healing is still at-will healing, it needs to be tied to some resource or it's broken before numbers are even suggested.

A few things that might work better;
- When you take the Attack action on your turn, you may cast Cure Wounds as a bonus action. This casting of cure wounds possesses a range of 60 feet.

- When you cast Cure Wounds, Healing Word, or another spell which heals one or more creatures, you may make a melee attack as part of the spell's casting.

- Once/short rest, when you deal damage with a melee weapon, you may use your bonus action to heal one creature within 60 feet. The hit points recovered is equal to the damage dealt by the attack.

- When you deal damage to a creature with a melee weapon, you may spend a spell slot to cause a number of creatures equal to the spell slot's level within 30 feet to regain hit points equal to the damage dealt by the attack.

But as is, battle healer is broken in concept, Guided Strike is stolen from the War cleric(Which exists, thereby invalidating the need for a "battle" cleric, in terms of concept), Divine Strike is Divine Strike, and Blessing of Battle is utterly worthless. Further, despite being the "battle" cleric, it still has to carry a holy symbol separate from a weapon.

As a whole, this is basically the full-caster version of a devotion paladin, and it really doesn't work.