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PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 09:24 AM
Ok recently I started playing a Raptoran Warblade which has been great so far. Except now I have leveled up to level 3 and need help. I have no idea what maneuvers or feats to get. So far I have Steel Wind, Stone Bones and Moment of Perfect Mind maneuvers and Weapon Focus Greatsword. Any help or sugestions would be a great help.

I like the look of the Emerald Razor maneuver but thats it so far.


Thanks :smallwink:

ElHugo
2007-09-16, 09:33 AM
Well, I don't know any cool feats off the top of my head, but IIRC there's a very decent tiger claw 2 maneuver - think it was called Rabid Wolf Strike - that'll let you stack 2d6 damage and +4 to hit on an attack in return for -4 AC till the beginning of the next round, and that 2d6 is nothing to spit at - you don't have iterative attacks yet anyway.

And: congratulations on the great choice of playing a warblade! I'm not exactly a hardened DnD veteran, but my DM allowed me to reclass from fighter to warblade after our group got ToB and it's crazy fun.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 09:37 AM
Well, I don't know any cool feats off the top of my head, but IIRC there's a very decent tiger claw 2 maneuver - think it was called Rabid Wolf Strike - that'll let you stack 2d6 damage and +4 to hit on an attack in return for -4 AC till the beginning of the next round, and that 2d6 is nothing to spit at - you don't have iterative attacks yet anyway.

And: congratulations on the great choice of playing a warblade! I'm not exactly a hardened DnD veteran, but my DM allowed me to reclass from fighter to warblade after our group got ToB and it's crazy fun.

My AC sucks right about now. I might get that at a later level but right now I need to think offense without losing defense since my AC sucks and our party has no healer as of now.

AS, for ToB. All I can say is that it is kick arse. Bow in the wake of my Warblade you crappy arcane casters.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-16, 09:41 AM
AS, for ToB. All I can say is that it is kick arse. Bow in the wake of my Warblade you crappy arcane casters.

Have you read the Logic Ninja's Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500)?

PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 09:45 AM
Have you read the Logic Ninja's Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500)?

Yeah it didn't work when I tried it (probably due to my crapness with casters). But with Diamond Mind techniques I can use concentration checks to overcome a lot of things (just don't get into a big list of spells that can nuke my arse cos they're broken etc).

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-16, 09:47 AM
Well, I'm not much of an arcanist myself. I'm more into Divine Magic, more specifically, Druids and Favoured Souls.

Dhavaer
2007-09-16, 09:52 AM
Battle Leader's Charge, Disarming Strike and Emerald Razor are all good.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-16, 10:05 AM
To really help you, I need to know what style you are playing and what you like to do in combat. Are you TWF, S&B, or THW? Do you like to charge in, make move-attacks, flank with a rogue? What maneuvers and stances do you already have?

I can't really help you too much with out that kind of info. But I can suggest some things. For a great feat, take Martial Study to get the Crusader's Strike (normal, but if you hit heal any ally within 10ft 1d6+1/initiator), though it only works if the target has on opposite alignment, so if you are good fight all evil enemies, you should have no problem. As for maneuvers to learn, I would suggest some Stone Dragon. Mountain Hammer is an amazing +2d6 damage and ignore hardness and DR, just plane awesome. Stone Vise isn't bad as well with +1d6 damage and a DC 12+Str fort save or their land speed drops to 0. Emerald Razor is nice of you have an amazing Concentration, as is Action Before Thought if your ref save sucks and you use it a lot, but remember you can't use ABT if you are flat-footed so you can't use it outside of combat or before your first turn in combat. If you like charging, Battle Leader's Charge is pretty good with no AoOs when you use it to charge and +10 damage.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-16, 10:11 AM
Well, Tataurus, it was specified that he wields a greatsword already, and his playstyle seems to be "Wade in, deal lots of damage, but low AC".

Dhavaer
2007-09-16, 10:25 AM
Emerald Razor is nice of you have an amazing Concentration

Emerald Razor doesn't use Concentration. You may be thinking of Insightful Strike or the Nightmare Blade manuevers.

Arbitrarity
2007-09-16, 10:51 AM
Emerald razor can be deadly with power attack.

Also: You should have 4 manuvers at level 2, and another at level 3.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 10:56 AM
Yeah I intend to remove stone bones at level 4 because it sucks. I don't really like White Raven techniques since helping my fellow comrades is the bards job.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-16, 11:13 AM
Well, Tataurus, it was specified that he wields a greatsword already, and his playstyle seems to be "Wade in, deal lots of damage, but low AC".

Oops, I missed that. That makes Mountain Hammer even better.


Emerald Razor doesn't use Concentration. You may be thinking of Insightful Strike or the Nightmare Blade manuevers.

Ah yes, I justed checked it again, I was thinking of the Nightmare Blades. Emerlad Razor is a very good manuever, I would suggest it. (I play Swordsages with lots of Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw, I don't look at Diamond Mind much)

Also, if you have low AC, Wall of Blades might be something to look into.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 11:36 AM
What feat should I get then?

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-16, 11:49 AM
Try taking a feat that will improve your AC. If it's low, just try to improve it.

For this reason, I suggest Dodge, then later on you can either continue the chain or not.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 01:13 PM
Try taking a feat that will improve your AC. If it's low, just try to improve it.

For this reason, I suggest Dodge, then later on you can either continue the chain or not.

I've never really saw the dodge feat as something worth getting.

dyslexicfaser
2007-09-16, 01:34 PM
You're right, dodge is weak except in that it gives you access to the whole feat chain.

Never played a warblade, but what about Combat Reflexes for more AoO's, or Combat Expertise if you want to improve your AC? And there's also those feats in ToB, one for each style, that I recall being pretty good.

kjones
2007-09-16, 03:29 PM
Combat Reflexes is suprisingly useful if you can combine it with a friendly spellcaster with Enlarge.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-16, 03:58 PM
I still say that Martial Study for Crusader's Strike is a worthy investment, Combat Reflexes is also very useful especially with the numerous feats that require it.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-16, 04:35 PM
Combat Reflexes is suprisingly useful if you can combine it with a friendly spellcaster with Enlarge.

We don't have a proper caster in our group. BTW can I use maneuvers durinng AoO?

AslanCross
2007-09-16, 05:10 PM
As far as I can tell, all maneuvers require an action. An AOO isn't an action. There are a couple, however, that allow you to use a maneuver as a swift action instead of eating up an AOO.

Combat Reflexes is good because it capitalizes off your class feature that gives you bonus AB and damage to AOOs.

I also recommend the Wall of Blades maneuver to offset your low AC. I originally thought it was crappy, but then I realized that since my AB+1d20 is most assuredly greater than my AC, it found a way into my NPC warblade's repertoire.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-16, 05:44 PM
Adding on to my previous dodge post, don't forget this gives acces to many other feats.

Also, just houserule that you don't have to declare dodge each turn. Just choose one person and stick with it until the encounter is over, or it dies, then choose a new one.

SadisticFishing
2007-09-16, 09:55 PM
Well, if you've decided to have low AC, still with low AC - slightly higher than low AC is virtually useless.

Most of the Warblade's maneuvers are just swing and connect, so Power Attack is a good feat to grab - the fact that you're not making iterative attacks means that you can use a lot of your high BAB for PA and not worry about missing with your other hits.

Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper aren't bad either.

Another possibility (read it on a forum), is getting Stronghold Warrior, Karmic Strike, Robillar's Gambit, and Combat Reflexes. Give up all your AoO's and just full round the crap outta them.

Exarch
2007-09-16, 10:07 PM
If you're playing as a Raptorean, you're planning on flying later on, right? If so, don't take Stone Dragon. You MUST be on the ground in order for it to work.

So, I'd suggest taking Iron Heart and Tiger Claw maneuvers instead. Tiger Claw can do a lot of damage, regardless of whether you focus on two-handed weapons or two-weapon fighting. Some of its abilities do focus on TWF (Girillion's Windmill or whatever), but there's some good ones that don't.

Some Diamond Mind wouldn't be bad, as they let you get extra bonus to hit, which'd let you offset that PA penalty.

Also, if you're going Raptorean, maybe take a spear instead? Extra bonus damage on the dive is nice.

Darrin
2007-09-16, 10:16 PM
Another possibility (read it on a forum), is getting Stronghold Warrior, Karmic Strike, Robillar's Gambit, and Combat Reflexes. Give up all your AoO's and just full round the crap outta them.

Stormguard Warrior, actually, and it works best with TWF builds (multipe attacks + combat rhythm = cheesy but fun).

Mountain Hammer is a great utility maneuver that comes in handy whenever you run into any sort of damage reduction. For a low AC build, though, picking up Wall of Blades first makes more sense.

For high Dex/TWF builds, Martial Study: Cloak of Deception (SH2) is a good pick, and leads up nicely to Martial Stance at 6th level to pick up Assassin's Stance (SH3), which stacks up well with the Warblade's Int bonus on flanked opponents. Pick up Shadow Blade after that, if you can spare it.

Mr. Moogle
2007-09-16, 10:26 PM
As, for ToB. All I can say is that it is kick arse. Bow in the wake of my Warblade you crappy arcane casters.

The feat Vital recovery comes to mind and also you might want to get Iron will for when all those "crappy arcane casters" beat a bloody warpath to your door armed with the famed ANTI OSMIUM NUKE CAN YOUR PUNY WARBLADE TAKE AN EARTH SHATTERING 450 QUADRILLION DAMAGE

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA VICTORY IS MINE!!!

dyslexicfaser
2007-09-16, 10:36 PM
Tiger Claw might not work - half of its attack maneuvers require jumps, and you can't jump while flying.

Exarch
2007-09-16, 11:00 PM
Depends on how the DM rules it. If nothing else, the Raptoran gets a major (I think) bonus to Jump checks.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-17, 11:27 AM
Well, if you've decided to have low AC, still with low AC - slightly higher than low AC is virtually useless.

Most of the Warblade's maneuvers are just swing and connect, so Power Attack is a good feat to grab - the fact that you're not making iterative attacks means that you can use a lot of your high BAB for PA and not worry about missing with your other hits.

Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper aren't bad either.

Another possibility (read it on a forum), is getting Stronghold Warrior, Karmic Strike, Robillar's Gambit, and Combat Reflexes. Give up all your AoO's and just full round the crap outta them.

What's Shock Trooper?

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-17, 11:33 AM
Well, if you've decided to have low AC, still with low AC - slightly higher than low AC is virtually useless.

Most of the Warblade's maneuvers are just swing and connect, so Power Attack is a good feat to grab - the fact that you're not making iterative attacks means that you can use a lot of your high BAB for PA and not worry about missing with your other hits.

Improved Bull Rush and Shock Trooper aren't bad either.

Another possibility (read it on a forum), is getting Stronghold Warrior, Karmic Strike, Robillar's Gambit, and Combat Reflexes. Give up all your AoO's and just full round the crap outta them.

I kind of assumed he had Power Attack, but maybe not. On that note, what feat(s) do you already have?

PlatinumJester
2007-09-17, 12:01 PM
I kind of assumed he had Power Attack, but maybe not. On that note, what feat(s) do you already have?

I have Weapon Focus :smallfrown:. Should I have gotten power attack :smallconfused:. I did intend to get Power Attack but we already have loats of frontliners to deal out damage.

I intend to get Hover (at some level), Quick Draw (at level 5) and Iproved Initiative (level 10).

Draz74
2007-09-17, 12:43 PM
I did intend to get Power Attack but we already have loats of frontliners to deal out damage.

Well, guess what, you're yet another frontliner who needs to deal a lot of damage. It's kind of unfortunate if that role doesn't fit well into your party, but as long as you're a Warblade, it's the role you're stuck with anyway.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-17, 12:45 PM
Well, guess what, you're yet another frontliner who needs to deal a lot of damage. It's kind of unfortunate if that role doesn't fit well into your party, but as long as you're a Warblade, it's the role you're stuck with anyway.

Well I figured that there were maneuvers which tacked on extra damage so I figure Power Attack is kinda crap but I will get it at some level.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-17, 01:20 PM
For your earlier question, this (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Shock_Trooper,CW) is Shock Trooper. Heedless charge is its main use in build optimization.

Exarch
2007-09-17, 01:42 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can Power Attack while performing a maneuver. At least, that's what my DM has been letting me do. And let me tell you, Power Attack + Stone Dragon = hurt.

But, yes, you're a combat character. Front liner, damage dealer all the way. Your AC may be crap, but you'll have good Hp (or should). Do not bother with Quick Draw or Improved Initiative. There are much better feats for you to take. Weapon Focus is still reasonably subpar, but at least with a Warblade you can retrain what weapon its with.

I might suggest taking Martial Study: Iron Heart Surge. IHS is something that'll remain useful for, well, forever and it doesn't hurt to have it as its own, seperate ability (can't change it out, push other maneuvers out of the scene if you take it as a feat).

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-17, 02:56 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can Power Attack while performing a maneuver. At least, that's what my DM has been letting me do. And let me tell you, Power Attack + Stone Dragon = hurt.

But, yes, you're a combat character. Front liner, damage dealer all the way. Your AC may be crap, but you'll have good Hp (or should). Do not bother with Quick Draw or Improved Initiative. There are much better feats for you to take. Weapon Focus is still reasonably subpar, but at least with a Warblade you can retrain what weapon its with.

I might suggest taking Martial Study: Iron Heart Surge. IHS is something that'll remain useful for, well, forever and it doesn't hurt to have it as its own, seperate ability (can't change it out, push other maneuvers out of the scene if you take it as a feat).

Crusader's Strike is a better use of a Martial Study feat since a Warblade can't get it normally, unlike IHS.

By the way, yes you can power attack as part of a maneuver as long as it says "as part of this maneuver, make a melee attack".

Exarch
2007-09-17, 03:34 PM
Lord Tartarus


Crusader's Strike is a better use of a Martial Study feat since a Warblade can't get it normally, unlike IHS.

True, but doesn't Crusader's Strike only heal a marginal 1d6 +initiator level? Not so much at higher levels.


By the way, yes you can power attack as part of a maneuver as long as it says "as part of this maneuver, make a melee attack".

Thanks, I thought so. Just wasn't completely sure.

serow
2007-09-18, 03:54 AM
Dump Wis, pump Con.
Warblade gets Endurance as an optional bonus feat, take it.
Then get Steadfast Determination feat from PHB2.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-18, 07:31 AM
True, but doesn't Crusader's Strike only heal a marginal 1d6 +initiator level? Not so much at higher levels.

That's true, but at low levels its pretty good, though if you don't allow feat retraining, you might not want to take it. Personally I allow feat retraining for most feats. Sure I make you pay some money, but it's worth it to get a better feat after you have exhausted the old one's use. So in a way, you can switch it for a better maneuver if your DM allows the retraining variant.

OverdrivePrime
2007-09-25, 03:34 PM
Question about an Ironheart maneuver.

Specifically, the level 2 counter, Wall of Blades.
Wall of blades states that you can make an attack roll in place of your AC against an incoming attack. It's not specifically stated, but I assume that this means that I could use Wall of Blades to deflect wizard's ray spell as long as it requires an attack roll. Am I correct in this assumption?

deadseashoals
2007-09-25, 04:11 PM
Take Flyby Attack and either ranks in Tumble (recommended), or Improved Flyby Attack. The great thing about a warblade and other ToB characters is that they don't need to stand still and take full attacks, and Flyby Attack, unlike Spring Attack, allows you to execute a maneuver and then back out of your opponent's full attack reach.

The Mormegil
2007-09-26, 08:59 AM
Feat = Power Attack. Period.

That's a must for ANY melee fighter, 'cause at low levels you can hit anyway and at higher levels, well, just say "Brilliant Blade" to your arcanist and see.
OR, you may take a Brilliant energy weapon or you may take another way to get touch attacks (Emerald Razor, Wraithstrike) or you may take Shock Trooper.
For you, Shock Trooper's the best option.

As for the manoeuvre, take Wall of Blades. Why? 'Cause you don't need a decent AC against anything that deals damage (high HD) except for what concerns Uberchargers and the like (which do only one attack per round, henc worth the manoeuvre), and as OverdrivePrime has pointed out, it works amazingly good with ray spells from the "crappy arcane spellcasters" that are your only problem, you being a warblade (you can outmatch every melee or ranged fighter, but you'll definitly lose if you find a wizard).

Enjoy your warblade!
--> The Mormegil