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Rennora
2018-09-25, 05:12 PM
Hey, I have been working on a Shadowmancer (https://docs.google.com/document/d/15en0br48hJNKyypbIeTU_6AJMAgqmfYgrFIJ0-IKsD4/edit?usp=sharing) class for Pathfinder.

I worked really hard on it. It seems a little strong to me but it is easily countered by Daylight- so I am unsure.

I'd love to hear your opinions on it and how I could balance it while maintaining the intent?

Rennora
2018-09-25, 07:11 PM
For those who don't want to look at the google doc:


Alignment: Any Neutral

Hit Die: d6.

Skill Points: (2 + Int modifier)

BAB and Saves: as Sorcerer.

Mana: as Psion has PP.

Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) and Use Magic Device (Cha).


Class Features
Armor and Weapons:
A Shadowmancer is proficient with all simple weapons, any weapon created with her Shadow Spell feature, and any weapon forged from her Shadowbond class feature. She is not proficient with armor or shields. They affect her casting like a Wizard.

Shadowcasting:
A Shadowmancer’s casting is based on Cha and works a lot like the psionic system in terms of points per level and base costs (this is changed depending on illumination levels), as well as max costs per level. A Shadowmancer uses illumination components, expending levels of illumination to cast her spells. When she casts spells, she causes the illumination level to rise by 1 or more steps around herself in a radius equal to 5ft per Spell Level cast as the shadows around her are expended. As a result, she cannot cast in Bright light. Her spells cost what they would cost a Psion in Normal Light. In Dim Light the cost is reduced by 1. In Darkness the cost is reduced by 2. This cannot reduce the cost below 0 - but can reduce the cost to 0. Effects that cause continuous illumination reduction do not replenish expended illumination until the beginning of her next turn.

COSTS:
Cast in Normal Light:
SpLv1: 1, SpLv2: 3, SpLv3: 5, SpLv4: 7, SpLv5: 9, SpLv6: 11, SpLv7: 13, SpLv8: 15, SpLv9: 17.
Cast in Dim Light:
SpLv1: 0, SpLv2: 2, SpLv3: 4, SpLv4: 6, SpLv5: 8, SpLv6: 10, SpLv7: 12, SpLv8: 14, SpLv9: 16.
Cast in Darkness:
SpLv1: 0, SpLv2: 1, SpLv3: 3, SpLv4: 5, SpLv5: 7, SpLv6: 9, SpLv7: 11, SpLv8: 13, SpLv9: 15.

Shadow Spell:

Reality:
A Shadow Spell is 10% real (see Shadow Conjuration). This reality improves as the Shadowmancer levels (+10% at 3 and every 3 levels thereafter to a max of +60% reality at level 18). This reality overrides any other reality that a spell would offer (such as Shadow Conjuration), but is affected by abilities that would affect it.
Can Replicate:
Any spell or psionic power the DM will allow. Some effects may be available at a greater SpLevel than other classes. (A DM may rule that Shadow Spell (Fireball) is available as a 4th level Spell, rather than 3rd. They may rule it is 5th instead of 3rd. Etc.) In general, if it is an illusion <shadow> effect it is of the same level. If it is an arcane spell, it tends to be 1 level higher. If it is divine or psionic, it tends to be 2 levels higher. Exceptions may exist- it is too arduous a task to assign a value to every spell/effect that exists. The DM may also rule some spell effects cannot be replicated.
Illumination Effects:
The CL&DC of a Shadow Spell is -2 in Bright, -1 in Normal, +1 in Dim, and +2 in Darkness (Minimum CL0, in which case the spell fails). Dispel checks against Shadow Spells likewise receive a +2 to dispel in Bright, +1 in Normal, -1 in Dim, and -2 in Darkness. Note that although Shadow Spells cannot be cast in Bright Light, they can be cast on targets who are in Bright Light- and that is what these bonuses reflect. Basically:
In Bright Light: -2 CL/DC, +2 Dispel Checks.
In Normal Light: -1 CL/DC, +1 Dispel Checks.
In Dim Light: +1 CL/DC, -1 Dispel Checks.
In Darkness: +2 CL/DC, -2 Dispel Checks.
* If CL is reduced to 0, the spell fails to cast but the energy is still consumed.


Shadow Talent:
At Lv2 and every 3 levels thereafter: The Shadowmancer may choose one of the following options. She may select a Metamagic feat that increases the spell level by less than 3 and add its effect to her spells at the cost of 2*+SpLv cost in mana. (Example: Umbral is +2, so it’d be +4 mana). She does not qualify for actual metamagic feats -or- psionic feats. This is a direct replacement. Alternatively you can select a Teamwork Feat for which you meet the prerequisites. Your Shaped Shadows also gain this feat.

At Lv11 And every 3 levels thereafter: The Shadowmancer may choose one of the following options. She may select a Metamagic feat and add its effect to her spells at the cost of 2*+SpLv cost in mana. (Example: Quicken is +4, so it’d be +8 mana). Alternatively you can select a Teamwork Feat for which you meet the prerequisites. Your Shaped Shadows also gain this feat.

Channel Shadows:
3+Cha/day may channel shadows. 30ft Radius Burst. The illumination level in the area drops by 1 step, as darkness, for 1 minute. It drops by another step at level 10 and again at 15. At 15 areas of dim light or darkness become supernaturally dark (even creatures with darkvision cannot see within it). The shadowmancer may reduce the cost of her Shadow Spells she casts in an area of such reduced illumination by 1 at Lv5, and by 1 more every 5 levels thereafter. This counts as Channel Energy for feats that modify it. You heal your Shadowbond creature as well any Shadows you have animated in the area by ˝ the amount of your Channel Shadows.

Shadowbond:
3 Form Options, Lv*5% real (if will save DC= highest SpLv you can cast). True Seeing sees the master's mundane shadow. This is a [shadow] effect. Pick form each day.

Shadow Form:
In this form, the Shadow is the master's shadow. It enables the master to cast touch spells at a range so long as her shadow touches the target shadow(s).
Familiar Form:
The shadow takes on the form of any familiar available to a level 1 Wizard. It acts in all ways as though it were that familiar. If the familiar dies, it returns again the next day when the wizard prepares spells. If the master takes improved familiar, then the effect only applies when in this form and it is still only % real- the exception is HP which is still half of its masters(Min 1).
Object Form:
Pick one item type. It is worth the greater of a MW item of its type or the corresponding NPC(Heroic) wealth per level amount. When in this form, the Shadow acts as that item. The item can be upgraded or modified each time the master levels.


Darkvision:
At 5th level a Shadowmancer gains Darkvision(30ft). This improves to Darkvision(60ft) at 10th level, becomes See in Darkness (60ft) at 15th level, and becomes See In Darkness (120ft) at 20th level.

Lesser Shape Shadows (Su):
At 2nd level you can shape shadows besides your own. As a full-round action you may turn 1 square of dim light into a small creature or 1 square of darkness into a medium creature.
These shadow creatures act as unseen servants, but are made of shadows instead of being invisible, and are dispelled if they take any damage at all. These creatures come with the Shadow Creature Template. These shadows persist for 1hour/CL. Limit 2*CL Shadows at once.

Shape Shadows (Su):
At 7th level you can animate your shadows further by giving them actual HD and spending 2*#HDgiven mana. Such Shadows look how you want as if affected by Disguise Self and are only dispelled if their HP becomes less than 0. You may not spend more mana than your HD in a single use. You may spend +1 mana to change the duration to permanent until dispelled/killed, and this expenditure does not count against the HD limit. These Shadows count as 20% real (as though made by Shadow Conjuration spells). Limit: 4 HD/CL.

Greater Shape Shadows (Su):
At 12th level you may shape a Large creature (this costs 4 squares of darkness). You may also apply the advanced template to your shadows. These Shadows count as 40% real. Limit: 6 HD/CL.

Superior Shape Shadows (Su):
At 17th level you may shape Huge creatures (costing 8 squares of darkness). These Shadows count as 60% real. Limit: 8 HD/CL.

nonsi
2018-09-26, 02:25 AM
Shadow Spell:

. . .
Can Replicate:
Any spell or psionic power the DM will allow. Some effects may be available at a greater SpLevel than other classes. (A DM may rule that Shadow Spell (Fireball) is available as a 4th level Spell, rather than 3rd. They may rule it is 5th instead of 3rd. Etc.) In general, if it is an illusion <shadow> effect it is of the same level. If it is an arcane spell, it tends to be 1 level higher. If it is divine or psionic, it tends to be 2 levels higher. Exceptions may exist- it is too arduous a task to assign a value to every spell/effect that exists. The DM may also rule some spell effects cannot be replicated.
. . .




So basically:
- All Illusion<shadow> spells (not too many of those available) are accessible at their given level.
- All arcane spells that are not Illusion<shadow> spells are available 1 SL later than usual.
- Any other spell is available 2 SLs later than usual.
Shorter and way more coherent.

Q: If a spell is only X% real, then what's the point of adding a raised SL on top of that?
Example: At 9th level, a Fireball spell is practically worthless (30% of 9d6 w/ Ref save for 1/2).


Also, what about spells with no immediate numerical output, such as Charm Person or Knock? How do those function?

Rennora
2018-09-26, 09:45 AM
Shadow Conjuration, which it is modeled after, explains that a: the less-real nature of the spells only applies if they make a save that is added to all such spells in addition to what is normally there to disbelieve the illusion. So if they fail that save, it's 100% real. If they make it, then it is some% real.

It also explains that that means things that don't do damage have a some% chance of affecting the target.

noob
2018-09-26, 10:31 AM
You just can use a wizard or cleric and replace their non spellcasting package by the shadow mage package or whatever was the name and have something comparably op to this class(but sightly less since your class also gives other class features).
That package is already on the srd so you can compare your class to other classes.
The whole expends shadows can be countered easily with a familiar creating more shadows with magical items or filling the spell component pouch with items that have darkness cast on them(drawing from a component pouch is a free action).

One weird thing is that this class can cast the darkness spell only at level 5 and even then it is partially real shadow that have only a limited probability of hampering sight.

The minionmancy description is an absolute mess so basically you make unseen servant (which are definitively not creatures) variable size sharing the appearance of creatures of their size and then apply on them a template that can only apply to creatures.
then you get at higher level and you are capped in hit dice instead of number and now your unseen servants(since you built the next ability on the previous one) now gains hit dice somehow(which does not helps them since they are not creatures and also due to them not being creatures the hid dice have no defined size) and now instead of looking like a creature they are disguised in the creature(a downgrade and again disguise self works only on creatures) and second downgrade: now they are partially real thus making them even more nonsensic.


The servant cannot attack in any way; it is never allowed an attack roll. It cannot be killed, but it dissipates if it takes 6 points of damage from area attacks. (It gets no saves against attacks.) If you attempt to send it beyond the spell’s range (measured from your current position), the servant ceases to exist.

That also means that basically those shadows always stays close and still die when it takes 6 damage from area of effect attacks no matter their hit points since that have not been overridden by your rules.