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Aodh
2018-10-05, 03:43 AM
Dreadnought Martial Archetype

The Giants of Flame embody both martial and artisanal mastery. They are warriors of immense power, but more so are smiths of consummate skill. There are some Fire Giants, however, who either pass up the chance to devote their lives to smithing or simply do not have the same skill as their kin. These giants do not completely eschew crafts, but spend much more time honing their sheer destructive ability and mountain-like resilience.
Those subjects of the Fire Giants who somehow earn a measure of respect through strength may be taught these techniques, and rise to leading their fellow slaves in battle under the flag of Suturís children.

Dual-Shield Proficiency:
At 3rd level, you are able to wield two shields and have the two cumulatively grant +3 AC. These shields count as 1d4 + proficiency bonus and strength modifier, and have no special traits, including not being light.

Shield Charge:
At 3rd level, you are capable of making a charge as an action as long as you are wielding two shields. You move up to 30 feet in a straight line and can move through the space of any creature smaller than large. The first time you enter a creatureís space during this move, you makes a shield attack against that creature. If the attack hits the target must also succeed on a strength saving throw or be pushed ahead of you for the rest of this move. If a creature critical fails on this save or are already prone, they are also knocked prone and take another shield attack. This can be used once a short or long rest.

Mountain-Smith:
At 7th level, you gain proficiency in Smithís and Masonís tools. If you already have proficiency in these you gain expertise. You also gain the ability to attune to any two shields and use a bonus action to summon them into your hands instead of having to equip them manually.

Fireshield:
At level 10, you gain the ability to imbue your shields with the flames of Surtur, changing their damage to magical fire damage. You may also roll an extra 1d4 damage when hitting an opponent after shield charging them. Your shields also radiate a dim light up to 10 feet

Volcanic Fury:
At level 15, you may make two attacks on a creature after successfully shield charging it, instead of one.

Overheat:
At level 17, any shield wielded by you gains 1d6 as a dice instead of 1d4, and now sheds bright light up to 10 ft and dim light up to 30 ft.

pygmybatrider
2018-10-05, 06:15 AM
Hey mate, loving the theme here of different subclasses related to the different giants.

Let's take a closer look at the abilities here:

@ level 3, you gain a) fluffy proficiencies - love this, and b) can dual wield shields - raises a few questions.

1 - I assume these count as improvised weapons, dealing 1d4+str damage, but you should probably spell that out in the feature.
2 - do they count as light weapons - ie can you dual wield with them, and apply the TWF fighting style (or worse - the feat)? If so, you should probably consider that a non-Dreadnought dual wielder will only be doing an average of 2 more damage per turn, while losing out on 4 AC. I think the balance here is off.

Maybe the 2 shields together only give you +3 to AC. Even being able to keep the +2 from a shield while dual wielding is a pretty strong feature on its own.

@ level 7, you gain some spells. I'm not exactly sure that Identify and Tiny Hut fit the theme - plus Tiny Hut is widely regarded as the best ritual spell in the book -, and Fabricate itself isn't a ritual spell. I'll come back to this one later.

@ level 10, you gain a shield charge ability. This one is really cool, I love the visual of charging headlong with your two shields up. I don't think you need the extra effect on a crit fail as it's a 5% chance of doing something that should probably happen automatically. I think it could probably be simplified into a souped-up version of the Charger feat.

Maybe something like: Whenever you use your action to Dash, and end your movement within 5 feet of a creature that is Large or smaller, that creature must pass a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency modifier + your Strength modifier) or else be knocked prone. If the creature fails its saving throw, you can immediately use your bonus action to make one melee weapon attack against the creature.

@ level 15, you gain resistance to two common damage types. I find it a bit odd you don't also gain resistance to bludgeoning damage. This is powerful, and should probably specify that it's non-magical. And maybe you only gain it for one round after Shield Charging somebody.

@ level 17 (which should be level 18 to match other Fighter archetypes), you gain a die boost (so they were d4s!) and your shield attacks count as magical. You also gain more spells - some very powerful ones, with no resource expenditure, and no concentration. I don't think you need these - thematic though they are, they are a bit over the top for me.

What I would suggest doing to polish up this subclass:

- tighten up the wording in the 3rd level feature, and consider dropping either the AC boost or the damage of the shields, by making them ineligible for TWF style.

- make it so that if you already have proficiency in smith's or mason's tools you gain expertise.

- make Shield Charge your level 7 ability. it will be the cornerstone of the build, and the other features will key off it.

- make Fireshield your level 10 feature. It turns the damage done by your shields into magical fire damage, and when you hit somebody after Shield Charging them, you roll an additional 1d4. You could also probably radiate dim light out to 10 feet or something to add some fluff to this.

- at level 15, you can make two attacks after successfully Shield Charging somebody.

- at level 18, call it Overheat or something, the damage die of your shields increase to 1d6, and you shed bright light out to 10 ft and dim light out to 30 ft.

These are just some on the fly suggestions - feel free to take them with a grain of salt (or sulphur). Thanks for sharing - I think this is a really evocative idea, and I hope you post more of the other giant ordnings!

Aodh
2018-10-05, 08:40 AM
Hey mate, loving the theme here of different subclasses related to the different giants.

Let's take a closer look at the abilities here:


Thanks so much again for the advice! I've mocked up a new outline for the archetype based off of it!


Dreadnought Martial Archetype

The Giants of Flame embody both martial and artisanal mastery. They are warriors of immense power, but more so are smiths of consummate skill. There are some Fire Giants, however, who either pass up the chance to devote their lives to smithing or simply do not have the same skill as their kin. These giants do not completely eschew crafts, but spend much more time honing their sheer destructive ability and mountain-like resilience.
Those subjects of the Fire Giants who somehow earn a measure of respect through strength may be taught these techniques, and rise to leading their fellow slaves in battle under the flag of Suturís children.

Mountain-Smith:
At 3rd level, you gain proficiency in Smithís and Masonís tools. If you already have proficiency in these you gain expertise.

Dual-Shield Proficiency:
At 3rd level, you are able to wield two shields and have the two cumulatively grant +3 AC. These shields count as 1d4 + proficiency bonus and strength modifier, and have no special traits, including not being light.

Shield Charge:
At 7th level, you are capable of making a charge as an action as long as you are wielding two shields. You move up to 30 feet in a straight line and can move through the space of any creature smaller than large. The first time you enter a creatureís space during this move, you makes a shield attack against that creature. If the attack hits the target must also succeed on a strength saving throw or be pushed ahead of you for the rest of this move. If a creature critical fails on this save or are already prone, they are also knocked prone and take another shield attack. This can be used once a short or long rest.

Fireshield:
At level 10, you gain the ability to imbue your shields with the flames of Surtur, changing their damage to magical fire damage. You may also roll an extra 1d4 damage when hitting an opponent after shield charging them. Your shields also radiate a dim light up to 10 feet

Volcanic Fury:
At level 15, you may make two attacks on a creature after successfully shield charging it, instead of one.

Overheat:
At level 17, any shield wielded by you gains 1d6 as a dice instead of 1d4, and now sheds bright light up to 10 ft and dim light up to 30 ft.

pygmybatrider
2018-10-05, 09:02 AM
Hey mate, I will save you the hassle of flicking to the other thread and just say here that I am really digging both the revised subclasses. I also like that you kept/added your own flavour in - the tracking part of the barb class was really flavourful, and I think I would love to play a Goliath or a Fire Genasi Dreadnought.

Well done!

Aodh
2018-10-05, 09:35 AM
Hey mate, I will save you the hassle of flicking to the other thread and just say here that I am really digging both the revised subclasses. I also like that you kept/added your own flavour in - the tracking part of the barb class was really flavourful, and I think I would love to play a Goliath or a Fire Genasi Dreadnought.

Well done!

Thank you! I'm putting a stone giant themed one up tonight and then i'm gonna be gming a session a few hours after so i'll be off then, but i'm around for now!

Man_Over_Game
2018-10-05, 11:36 AM
This has some really thematic stuff included with it and I especially like the use of charging (which isn't used often as-is).

There are a few things that stand out, though. A common thing I see with homebrews is that they neglect the early levels, and this one suffers the same problem.

There's a formula that all of the existing Fighter archetypes all follow, and there's a few good reasons for it: it allows players to receive immediate feedback for their archetype choice, it ties in with the weaknesses of the fighter at the time that they need them, and they're divided in a way that allows you to multiclass without having to invest strictly in one playstyle.

Here's what I'm talking about:

level 3: Get the major ability that defines what you're going to be doing for the next 17 levels.
level 7: Get some kind of utility or support ability that's relatively minor but adds diversity to what you provide for the team.
level 10: Get an ability that improves your sustainability, either by giving resourceless effect, a way to regenerate resources, or to make your resources more efficient.
level 15: A generic combat improvement.
level 18: A powerful combat improvement, generally related to survivability.

These aren't 100% perfect, as the Arcane Archer does do these things but with some of the order mixed up, but that likely has to do with the fact that it's a ranged fighter and has to rely more on versatility than survivability to keep it interesting.

In contrast, the main ability this subclass provides at level 3 is to get higher AC at the cost of lower damage, with no additional clauses to improve the damage or change the playstyle.

My recommendation is:
Level 3: Get the extra AC and Charge.
Level 7: Get those tools/Expertise (good timing, as this means that a fighter can more easily afford to invest in skill feats by now to get that expertise, yo)
Level 10-18: Not entirely sure, but I'd probably go in the same order you have them.

One particular problem a lot of players have with utilizing shields as more than a static AC is the fact that they take an action to remove/equip. Maybe have a clause where you can enchant up to 2 shields to summon with a bonus action (similar to the Pact of the Blade for Warlocks). That'd add a lot of cool effects, like being able to summon it, charge, put it back next turn and whip out a big weapon, swap the big weapon for a one-hander and summon another shield, etc.

Aodh
2018-10-06, 12:15 AM
This has some really thematic stuff included with it and I especially like the use of charging (which isn't used often as-is).

There are a few things that stand out, though. A common thing I see with homebrews is that they neglect the early levels, and this one suffers the same problem.

Thank you so much again for the advice again! I've made some small switches with the levels and the level 7 feature.