Spellcaster Multiclassing

[Genoin]

Sorry if this is a simple answer and I am just overlooking but here goes. I am a long time 3.5 and Pathfinder player that is looking to get into 5e. I have been reading threads on here and learning a lot, but something confuses me. I seem to see people often recommending multiclassing when playing spellcasting classes, when in 3.5/PF it was generally a big no no. Am I missing something about how multiclassing works in 5e?

[Laserlight]

Generally you want to MC the caster the least amount possible, with a class that gets a front loaded benefit. A wizard might take one level of cleric, for example, gaining armor proficiency and some spells.

[Zanthy1]

In 3.x and PF Multiclassing as a caster often meant limiting your spell slots and was an overall cripple. In 5e, due to the multiclassing rules, depending on what you multiclass with you do not miss out on teh spell slot progression, just what level spells you can access at certain times. So a level 5 wizard and a level 3 wizard/level 2 cleric have the same amount of spell slots, following the multiclass chart in the PHB. The pure Wizard will be able to cast 3rd level wizard spells, whereas the other character can cast 2nd level wizard spells and 1st level cleric spells, but have the same amount of spell slots.

A common multiclasses is Cleric 1 Wizard X. This means that at level 20, they still have the full spell slots, but may have 2 less wizard spells (though in this case can be supplemented by copying spell scrolls into your spellbook) and also being able to prepare 2 cleric spells of 1st level (though these can be upcast up to 9th level if desired). This can be nice to get some cleric in, but mainly its so that the wizard can now wear medium/heavy armor and hold a shield.

[Genoin]

That makes sense. I take it then that Arcane Spell Failure is not a thing in 5e.

I feel like I have seen more than a couple of recommendations for builds that have a fair few mixed levels, like sorcadins, but I may be overstating their prevalence.

[nickl_2000]

That makes sense. I take it then that Arcane Spell Failure is not a thing in 5e.

I feel like I have seen more than a couple of recommendations for builds that have a fair few mixed levels, like sorcadins, but I may be overstating their prevalence.

Arcane spell failure is not a thing at all. Sorcadins are not actually focused on using those sell slots to cast spells, the point there is to get as many spell slots for smites as possible.

[PhoenixPhyre]

That makes sense. I take it then that Arcane Spell Failure is not a thing in 5e.

I feel like I have seen more than a couple of recommendations for builds that have a fair few mixed levels, like sorcadins, but I may be overstating their prevalence.

The only "spell failure" associated with armor in 5e is the following:

If you do not have proficiency in the armor you're wearing, you can't cast spells.

So it's all or nothing--a Mountain Dwarf (gets racial proficiency in medium armor) Wizard can cast spells just fine in half-plate.

The mixed-level spell-casters you've seen are (most-frequently) sorlocks: Warlock X/Sorcerer Y.
+ short-rest refreshing spell low-level slots (from warlock), mainly to fuel metamagic
+ sorcerer metamagic
+ increased endurance
- fewer spells known
- reduced spell-slot progression (both fewer total and fewer higher-level ones)

Unless you do cheesy things, it's a tradeoff. More endurance for less high-level goodness and slower access.

Unlike 3e/PF, "caster level" doesn't increase your DCs (those are fixed for all spells by proficiency and ability modifiers), so losing caster levels doesn't cripple you.

-------------

More generally, 5e multiclassing is trading depth in one area for breadth or additional resources. Note that it's explicitly a variant option, so access is both at DM's option (although most allow it) and it's not assumed. The whole "bounce between 2-3 base classes and multiple PrCs" thing is gone. At most, people take a 1-2 level dip sometime after level 5. Most players never multiclass at all (from data gathered by WoTC).

[Anymage]

You can cast in any armor you're proficient in. This is a lot simpler than 3.x's logic where arcane spell failure was kind of a thing, but countless arcane classes had to allow a workaround because they wanted casting in limited armor. Conversely, if you're a divine caster who's only proficient in medium armor, you can't slap on full plate and cast regardless. It ultimately is a simpler system.

As far as spell slots as everyone else said, you essentially add your levels in all caster classes together, and gain spell slots based on the total level. (Warlocks interact kind of weirdly with this, but we'll ignore them for now.) What spells you can actually cast is based on class level instead of character level. But most spells are built to scale up with spell level, so it's not like those higher level slots are going to waste. In fact, most spells don't scale with caster level any more, only scaling with the level of the slot spent. Clr5/Wiz5 only knows up to third level spells on each side, granted able to upcast them to greater effect, while a pure Wiz10 knows up to fifth level spells. Meanwhile, though, a Clr1/Wiz9 also knows up to fifth level spells, has the exact same available spell slots as the other characters, plus can wear armor and use spell slots for healing in a pinch. That can be an attractive tradeoff for certain characters.

Sorcadins, as mentioned, are basically there because paladins can turn spell slots into heavy smite damage, and with BAB no longer being a thing a paladin might find having bigger and more spell slots for those smites to be more attractive than going pure paladin. The other common multiclasses I've seen mentioned are sorlocks and palalocks. This is because warlocks get decent at-will damage basically as a class feature, plus their spell casting gives them a small number of spell slots that are always at their highest level that recover on a short rest. Palalocks can use those warlock slots to power smites, and get them back relatively quickly. Sorlocks can use the warlock blast all day without burning resources, and can use the easily recovered spell slots to power sorcerer class features for some fairly impressive tricks.

[Genoin]

Unless you do cheesy things, it's a tradeoff. More endurance for less high-level goodness and slower access.


I take this reference to cheese to mean the Coffeelock thing I have heard of.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I take this reference to cheese to mean the Coffeelock thing I have heard of.

Yup. And even that, if you don't cheese downtime for tons of slots isn't so bad.

[Wub]

RAW says that a Wizard 19/Cleric 1 can cast 9th level cleric spells, since the restriction on preparing spells is "of a level for which you have spell slots." Nothing about cleric level.

Ah, nevermind. Later rule section thingy says otherwise.

[PhoenixPhyre]

RAW says that a Wizard 19/Cleric 1 can cast 9th level cleric spells, since the restriction on preparing spells is "of a level for which you have spell slots." Nothing about cleric level.

No. You prepare spells for each class separately as if you were single classed with that number of individual class levels. So a Wiz 19/Cler 1 can cast:

9th level wizard spells because Wizard 19 can cast 9th level spells
1st level cleric spells because Cleric 1 can cast 1st level spells.

The more specific multi-classing rules override the individual class entries for preparing spells.

Also, your stat mod for cleric spells (including spells prepared) is WIS, while it's INT for wizard spells.

So if you have 20 INT but only 14 WIS, you can prepare:
5 + 19 = 24 wizard spells of levels 1-9
1 + 2 = 3 cleric spells of level 1

You also have the cantrips of a level 19 wizard and a level 1 cleric separately, and they use different stats. Cantrips scale by character level explicitly, however, so your cleric cantrips hit as if you were level 20.

[LudicSavant]

Sorry if this is a simple answer and I am just overlooking but here goes. I am a long time 3.5 and Pathfinder player that is looking to get into 5e. I have been reading threads on here and learning a lot, but something confuses me. I seem to see people often recommending multiclassing when playing spellcasting classes, when in 3.5/PF it was generally a big no no. Am I missing something about how multiclassing works in 5e?

Unlike in 3.5e, spellcaster levels stack with each other for determining your spell slot progression. Note that this just applies to your slot progression; a Cleric 1/Other Caster 19 won't be able to prepare Miracle.


I take it then that Arcane Spell Failure is not a thing in 5e.

In 5e, all that matters is whether or not you have proficiency in the armor. ASF no longer exists.