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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Void Disciple, a sorcerer origin.



jiriku
2018-11-14, 08:55 AM
VOID DISCIPLE

Summary
The void disciple is skilled with manipulating elemental void, and can perceive the unseen, manipulate the ki of individual for their benefit or detriment, rearrange time and space, or even tamper with fate itself. The void disciple is the perfect origin for strategic players who like to study their opponents and use that knowledge to construct the perfect plan. Because the void disciple's offensive powers are limited, it's a better fit for players who prefer to take on a supporting role in combat.


When you select this origin, you gain proficiency with all simple weapons. Remove Deception and Intimidate from your list of class skills and add History, Nature, and Perception. You gain proficiency with Intelligence and Wisdom saving throws instead of Charisma and Constitution saving throws.

All cleric and wizard spells from the schools of divination, enchantment, and necromancy are sorcerer spells for you. You cannot cast any spells that deal damage unless that damage is [necrotic] or [psychic] damage.

Your understanding of magic is intuitive, rather than based on your force of personality: use Wisdom rather than Charisma as your spellcasting attribute.

Boundless Sight
You gain darkvision with a range of 60 feet. Living creatures within range appear as radiant beings to you, while undead and aberrations appear as horrid creatures of darkness. Your observation of the inner nature of those around you grants advantage on Insight checks.


Your perception grants you a preternatural ability to avoid attacks. When you are unarmored and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 13 + your Dexterity modifier. Invisible or hidden creatures do not gain advantage when attacking you.

Void Use
Once you acquire sorcery points, you can spend a sorcery point whenever you make an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw to add 1d6 to the check result. You can spend the sorcery point after the roll is made but before any of its results are applied. You can use this ability only once per roll.


Additionally, whenever you would learn a new metamagic option, you may instead learn a void mystery.

Mystery of Void
At 3rd level, you learn the Subtle metamagic option. It is automatically applied to all your sorcerer spells at no cost.


Whenever you could learn a new metamagic option, you may instead learn one of the void mysteries described below.

Kharmic Intent
As a reaction when an ally makes an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, spend a sorcery point to add 1d6 to the check result. You can spend the sorcery point after the roll is made but before any of its results are applied. You can use this ability only once per roll.

Moment of Clarity
As part of the action required to make an ability check using a skill or tool kit, spend 2 sorcery points. You gain proficiency and expertise with the skill or tool kit for 10 minutes (or for one check, if making the check requires more than 10 minutes), adding double your proficiency bonus to the check.

Spiritual Presence
As a reaction, spend 1 sorcery point to allow an ally to recover 1 ki point, 1 combat superiority die, 1 use of rage, or 1 use of bardic inspiration, or spend a number of sorcery points to create a spell slot for an allied spellcaster (you can't create a spell slot of a higher level than the spellcaster normally has access to).

Void Suppression
As a reaction when an opponent makes an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, spend a sorcery point to subtract 1d6 from the check result. You can spend the sorcery point after the roll is made but before any of its results are applied. You can use this ability only once per roll.

Sense Void
You gain clairvoyance as one of your spells known (choose a different spell if you already know clairvoyance).


Twice per day as an action, you can cast an improved version of clairvoyance without expending a spell slot. When cast in this way, the spell's range is determined by an Intelligence (Arcana) check against the following table.




Check Result
Range


Less than 10
Line of sight


10
1 mile


15
10 miles


20
100 miles


25 or more
1,000 miles




As an action during the spell's duration, you can reposition the spell's sensor anywhere else within range. Rather than choosing between sight or hearing, you perceive through the sensor with all your senses (including olfactory, tactile, and thermal senses) as if you occupied the sensorís space. However, your body enters a coma-like state and is unconscious and helpless until you stop concentrating.


After you have used this ability twice, you cannot do so again until you complete a long rest.

Improved Sense Void
At 14th level, your ability to use Sense Void improves. You may take a -5 penalty on your Intelligence (Arcana) check to gain the ability to use detect magic through your sensor, at will and without concentration. You may take a -10 penalty to be able to use both detect magic and discern lies.


You now regain your uses of Sense Void whenever you complete a short or long rest.

Superior Sense Void
At 18th level, your ability to use Sense Void further improves. You may take a -15 penalty on your Intelligence (Arcana) check to be able to use detect magic, discern lies, and detect thoughts.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-11-17, 11:47 AM
VOID DISCIPLE

Summary
The void disciple is skilled with manipulating elemental void, and can perceive the unseen, manipulate the ki of individual for their benefit or detriment, rearrange time and space, or even tamper with fate itself. The void disciple is the perfect origin for strategic players who like to study their opponents and use that knowledge to construct the perfect plan. Because the void disciple's offensive powers are limited, it's a better fit for players who prefer to take on a supporting role in combat.


When you select this origin, you gain proficiency with all simple weapons. Remove Deception and Intimidate from your list of class skills and add History, Nature, and Perception.

All cleric and wizard spells from the schools of divination, enchantment, and necromancy are sorcerer spells for you. You cannot cast any spells that deal damage unless that damage is [force], [necrotic], or [psychic] damage.

Your understanding of magic is intuitive, rather than based on your force of personality: use Wisdom rather than Charisma as your spellcasting attribute.
The casting stat (and skill) switch doesn't really have precedent, but Sorcerer origins kick in at 1st, so I don't see any practical problem.


Boundless Sight
You gain darkvision with a range of 60 feet. Living creatures within range appear as radiant beings to you, while undead and aberrations appear as horrid creatures of darkness. Your observation of the inner nature of those around you grants advantage on Insight checks.
That's pretty dang useful.


Empty Mind
Beginning at 1st level, when you are unarmored and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Wisdom modifier + your Dexterity modifier. Invisible or hidden creatures do not gain advantage when attacking you.


You can spend a sorcery point whenever you make an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw to add 1d6 to the check result. You can spend the sorcery point after the roll is made but before any of its results are applied. You can spend only 1 sorcery point per roll.

Additionally, whenever you would learn a new metamagic option, you may instead learn a void mystery.
Ohh... that is damn good.


Mystery of Void
At 3rd level, you learn the Subtle metamagic option. It is automatically applied to all your sorcerer spells at no cost. Your spells that deal [force] damage now produce their effects invisibly, which typically grants you advantage on your attack rolls with these spells.


Whenever you could learn a new metamagic option, you may instead learn one of the void mysteries described below.
Fun story-- as far as I can tell, you can't actually benefit from the advantage to attacks. The only Force spells with attack rolls that I could find (Bigby's Hand, Mordenkain's Sword, and Steel Wind Strike) don't appear on the Sorcerer list, even with the expansions.

But in any case, I'm kinda concerned at this point. You've given a lot of very good class features in a very short amount of time-- a signfiicant spell list expansion, advantage on Insight checks, AC based on your casting stat, invisible spellcasting, and an excellent new use for Sorcerery points. It's nicely thematic, but I think you need to pull back.



Altering the Course
Whenever you would spend one sorcery point to add or subtract 1d6 on a roll, you can instead spend 2 points to use 1d8, 3 points to use 1d10, or 4 points to use 1d12.
This one looks mathematically worthless-- each additional SP is only giving you a +1 bonus.


Kharmic Intent
As a reaction when an ally makes an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, spend a sorcery point to add 1d6 to the check result. You can spend the sorcery point after the roll is made but before any of its results are applied. You can only spend 1 sorcery point per roll.
Well, the Void Disciple Sorcerer is probably the best support class in the game now, hands down-- tons of retroactive Bardic Inspiration, on top of Twin Spell-boosted buffing.


Moment of Clarity
As part of the action required to make an ability check using a skill or tool kit in which you are not proficient, spend 1 sorcery point. You make the ability check with proficiency.
Until 9th-13th level, this is generally worth less than Empty Mind, unless your DM is using a "proficiency as permissions" sort of thing (which I encourage, but). Maybe if it was proficiency for, oh, 10 minutes?


Spiritual Presence
As a reaction, spend 1 sorcery point to grant an ally 1 ki point or 1 combat superiority die, or spend a number of sorcery points to create a spell slot for an allied spellcaster (you can't create a spell slot of a higher level than the spellcaster normally has access to).
How about Rages? Bardic Inspiration?


Void Suppression
As a reaction when an opponent makes an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, spend a sorcery point to subtract 1d6 from the check result. You can spend the sorcery point after the roll is made but before any of its results are applied. You can only spend 1 sorcery point per roll.
Another entry for "best support class" right here.


Sense Void
You gain clairvoyance as one of your spells known (choose a different spell if you already know clairvoyance).


Twice per day as an action, you can cast an improved version of clairvoyance without expending a spell slot. When cast in this way, the spell's range is determined by an Intelligence (Arcana) check against the following table.

As an action during the spell's duration, you can reposition the spell's sensor anywhere else within range. Rather than choosing between sight or hearing, you perceive through the sensor with all your senses (including olfactory, tactile, and thermal senses) as if you occupied the sensorís space. However, your body enters a coma-like state and is unconscious and helpless until you stop concentrating.

You regain expended uses whenever you complete a long rest.
I'm assuming this kicks in at 6th? It's very, very good. Langauge is a bit off on usage-- should probably be "after you have used this ability twice, you cannot do so again until you complete a long rest."


Self / No Self
After reaching 14th level, you can meditate for five minutes to recover all your spent sorcery points. You regain your use of this ability whenever you complete a long rest.
:smalleek: This would be incredible on any Sorcerer. For you, it's horrifically strong... at the very least, should probably be "during a short rest."


Improved Sense Void
At 18th level, your ability to use Sense Void improves. You may take a -5 penalty on your Intelligence (Knowledge: Arcana) check to gain the ability to use detect magic through your sensor, at will and without concentration. You may take a -10 penalty to be able to use both detect magic and discern lies.
You may take a -15 penalty to be able to use detect magic, discern lies, and detect thoughts.


You now regain expended uses of Sense Void whenever you complete a short or long rest.[/QUOTE]
Neat, but a bit wimpy for a capstone, I think-- maybe switch this with Self/No Self?

------------

Overall, it's delightfully thematic, and does an excellent job of flipping you from a blaster to a supporter, but overall a bit over-tuned, I think.

jiriku
2018-11-17, 02:42 PM
Fun story-- as far as I can tell, you can't actually benefit from the advantage to attacks. The only Force spells with attack rolls that I could find (Bigby's Hand, Mordenkain's Sword, and Steel Wind Strike) don't appear on the Sorcerer list, even with the expansions.

Good point. The ability to use damaging force spells, and with it the ability to produce invisible force effects, is now removed.


But in any case, I'm kinda concerned at this point. You've given a lot of very good class features in a very short amount of time-- a signfiicant spell list expansion, advantage on Insight checks, AC based on your casting stat, invisible spellcasting, and an excellent new use for Sorcerery points. It's nicely thematic, but I think you need to pull back.

I am also removing Wis to AC and Self / No Self. It hurts to let go of abilities that are so iconic for the class, but if something has to give those are the least central.


[Altering the Course]This one looks mathematically worthless-- each additional SP is only giving you a +1 bonus.

AtC is intended to be a wasteful ability. When you really, really, REALLY need an outstanding roll -- when you want to Alter the Course of fate and change your destiny -- you use AtC and spend a significant chunk of your daily resources to crush a check that you have no right to be even succeeding at with a moment of "instant genius." But it needs to be ruinously expensive, otherwise the void disciple is just Mary Sue levels of awesome at everything all the time. The original ability simply removed the cap on the number of points you could spend on one roll, but with bounded accuracy I think that granting the ability to add, say 10d6 to an ability check is kind of a non-starter. Maybe I can roll this into Moment of Clarity somehow. You know, I think that would work.


[Moment of Clarity]Until 9th-13th level, this is generally worth less than Empty Mind, unless your DM is using a "proficiency as permissions" sort of thing (which I encourage, but). Maybe if it was proficiency for, oh, 10 minutes?

Changed to grant both proficiency and expertise, and increased cost from 1 to 2.


[Spiritual Presence]How about Rages? Bardic Inspiration?

These are now included.


How does it look now?

Grod_The_Giant
2018-11-17, 02:57 PM
How does it look now?
Hmm... maybe we went too far the other way? The first level looks kinda wimpy... maybe bring back a slightly lesser version of Empty Mind? 13+Dex AC and no advantage from unseen attackers?

jiriku
2018-11-17, 06:05 PM
Hmm... maybe we went too far the other way? The first level looks kinda wimpy... maybe bring back a slightly lesser version of Empty Mind? 13+Dex AC and no advantage from unseen attackers?

Done. I also clarified that You commented that the 18th level ability was rather lackluster, and this version compounds that by spreading it across two feature. But I'm rather comfortable doing that -- the real strength of this subclass is Void Use, and this feature is self-scaling since it grows more powerful as you acquire more sorcery points.

I also adjusted the initial Void Use ability to clarify that it doesn't prevent stacking of different mysteries. So for example, when making a skill check you could spend three points to gain proficiency and expertise and add 1d6 to the roll.

I also realized I needed to tinker with the saving throws. Since the casting attribute is Wisdom rather than Charisma, proficiency with Wisdom saves makes more sense than proficiency with Charisma saves.


Anything else we missed?

JNAProductions
2018-11-17, 06:52 PM
Donít give both Con and Wis as saves.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-11-17, 07:28 PM
Donít give both Con and Wis as saves.
True; those are both strong saves. Maybe switch Cha for Int? That's "resisting psychic attacks and illusions," which seems more fitting than "resisting charms."

jiriku
2018-11-17, 10:42 PM
Changed to Wis + Int