PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Revised Fighter - [PEACH]



superninja109
2018-12-08, 04:14 PM
Hello. I have made a revised version o the fighter as an option for players who want more modularity and customization. I know that the regular fighter offers some of this, but everyone seems to like the Battlemaster, so I put in maneuvers for everyone. However, I am concerned about balance issues, especially with the Eldritch Knight. There are lots of options and I just need to make sure they are all balanced.

Fighter (Revised)



Level
Features
Superiority Dice
Maneuvers Known


1
Fighting Style (1), Second Wind, Superiority dice
1d6
-


2
Maneuvers
3d6
1


3
Martial Archetype
4d6
2


4
Ability Score Improvement
4d6
2


5
Extra Attack (1)
5d8
3


6
Ability Score Improvement
5d8
3


7
Martial Archetype Feature
5d8
4


8
Ability Score Improvement
5d8
4


9
Fighting Style (2)
6d8
5


10
Martial Archetype Feature
6d8
5


11
Extra Attack (2)
6d10
5


12
Ability Score Improvement
6d10
6


13
Greater Fighting Style (1)
7d10
6


14
Ability Score Improvement
7d10
6


15
Martial Archetype Feature
7d10
7


16
Ability Score Improvement
7d10
7


17
Greater Fighting Style (2),
8d12
7


18
Martial Archetype Feature
8d12
8


19
Ability Score Improvement
8d12
8


20
Extra Attack (3)
8d12
8




Hit Dice: 1d10 per fighter level
Hit Points at 1st level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 + your constitution modifier

Proficiencies:
Armor: All armor, shields
Weapons: Martial and simple weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution


Fighting Style:
AT 1st level, you adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can’t take the same fighting style more than once. At 9th level, you can choose another of these options.

Archery – (same as in PHB)

Defense - (same as in PHB)

Dueling - (same as in PHB)

Great Weapon Fighting - (same as in PHB)

Protection - (same as in PHB)

Two Weapon Fighting - (same as in PHB)

Favored Weapon – Choose one simple or martial weapon to be your favored weapon. You gain +1 to attack and damage rolls with this weapon.

Unarmed Fighting – You unarmed attacks deal damage equal to you superiority die 1d4 + your strength modifier. Additionally, you unarmed strikes ignore resistance to non-magical attacks.

Grappling – When you attempt to grapple a creature, a hand which is holding something that is no being used to grapple another creature counts as a free hand.



Superiority Dice
You gain a special type die called a superiority die. You can use it to fuel effects like your Second Wind feature or maneuvers provided by your Martial Archetype. This superiority die is a d8 but becomes a d10 at level 11 and a d12 at level 17. You gain more of these dice as you level up, as shown in the superiority dice column of the Fighter (revised) table. You regain all expended superiority dice when you complete a short or long rest.
If an effect fueled by you superiority dice requires a saving throw, the DC is equal to:
Superiority Die save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice)

Second Wind
You have a limited well of stamina upon which you can draw to protect yourself from harm. On your turn, you can use your bonus action to regain hit points equal to the superiority die expended + your fighter level. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum of 1) per long rest.

Maneuvers
Starting at 2nd level, you learn one maneuver of your choice.

Martial Archetype
At 3rd level, you choose a martial archetype to follow. The choices are the Champion, The Banneret, The Battle Master, and the Eldritch Knight. This archetype grants you maneuvers which you can use by expending superiority dice.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level, you can choose one of the following options:
• Increase one ability score of your choice by 2, to a maximum of 20.
• Increase two ability scores of your choice by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• Gain a feat of your choice.
• Learn a maneuver of your choice from any of the fighter martial archetypes, regardless of which archetype you chose. This maneuver functions as normal.

Greater Fighting Style
Once at 13th level and again at 17th level, you may choose one of the following options.

• Greater Archery – When attacking with a ranged weapon, you no longer suffer from disadvantage from attacking a creature that is outside of the weapon’s normal range but is within the weapon’s long range. Additionally, when you hit a creature with a critical hit with a ranged weapon, that creature’s speed is reduced to 0 until the end of its next turn.

• Evasion – When you are subjected to an effect such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a lighting bolt spell that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

• Reactionist – Whenever you use your reaction to make an attack, the attack roll has advantage.

• Greater Defense – When you are wearing armor and do not move during your turn, you have advantage on all saving throws until the start of your next turn.

• Aggressive – As a bonus action, you may move up to your speed towards a hostile creature you can see. When moving in this way, you do not provoke opportunity attacks.

• Greater Dueling – Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a weapon attack when you are hold a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you deal an extra 1d8 of damage of the weapon's type.

• Ambusher – In the first round of a combat, you have advantage on attack rolls against a creature that is surprised.

• Line Holder – You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature if at least two of you allies that are not incapacitated are within five feet of the creature.

• Greater Grapplemancer – Creatures have disadvantage on ability checks made to escape your grapples.

• Charging Expert – On your turn, when you move at least 30 feet towards a hostile creature, if your first attack roll against the creature is a natural even number, the first attack you make against this creature is automatically a critical hit. the first attack you make against this creature is automatically a critical hit.

• Improved Two-weapon Fighting – When you are eligible to make an opportunity attack, you may immediately use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack with each weapon that you are holding. These attacks still count as opportunity attacks.

• Greater Protection – When a creature within 5 feet of you is forced to make a Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution saving throw, you may use your reaction to give the creature advantage on the saving throw.

• Greater Great Weapon Fighting – Once per attack, when you hit a creature with a weapon you are holding with two hands (that has the two-handed or versatile property), if you roll below the average result on one of the dice, you can instead use the average result for that die (round up).

• Dasher – You gain proficiency in initiative checks, and if you aren’t wearing heavy armor, your walking speed increased by 10 feet.

• Greater Unarmed Fighting – When you hit a creature with an unarmed attack, the damage is equal to 1d8 + your strength modifier, and it loses a cumulative 10 feet of its walking speed, to a maximum of 20 feet, until the end of its next turn.

• Greater Favored Weapon – Choose a weapon to be your favored weapon. When you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll with this weapon, instead of missing, you automatically hit the target with a critical hit.



The archetypal champion focuses on raw physical power honed to deadly perfection. Blah blah blah….

Maneuvers
Starting at 3rd level when you choose this archetype, you learn two maneuvers of you choice from the list below. You learn new maneuvers as you level up, as shown on the Fighter table. Each time you learn new maneuvers, you may replace one maneuver you know with a different one. Some maneuvers have level prerequisites that must be met before learning them. You can only use one maneuver per attack.

Improved Critical
Starting at 7th level, your attacks score a critical hit on a roll of a natural 19 or a natural 20.

Superior Athlete
Starting at 10th level, you can add half of your proficiency bonus to Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution checks that do not already use your proficiency bonus. Additionally, whenever you expend a superiority die, you gain advantage on Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution checks (your choice) for 1 minute.

Intimidating Musculature
At 15th level, you can use add your Strength modifier instead of your Charisma modifier for Charisma (Intimidation) checks.

Survivor
At 18th level, at the start of your turn, if you have less than half of your hit points remaining, you regain hit points equal to your constitution modifier.



The archetypal Banneret is a leader on the battlefield, inspiring, empowering, guiding and protecting others.

Maneuvers
Starting at 3rd level when you choose this archetype, you learn two maneuvers of you choice from the list below. You learn new maneuvers as you level up, as shown on the Fighter table. Each time you learn new maneuvers, you may replace one maneuver you know with a different one. Some maneuvers have level prerequisites that must be met before learning them. You can only use one maneuver per attack.

Inspiring Visage
Starting at 7th level, creatures within 10 feet of you cannot be frightened.

Royal Knowledge
At 10th level, you gain advantage on persuasion checks when interacting with soldiers or royalty. In addition, you have advantage on deception checks for passing off as royalty nobility.

Spirit of the Leader
Starting at 15th level, you have advantage on saving throws against being frightened, charmed, and stunned.

Superior Leadership
Starting at 18th level, you can take the help action as a bonus action.


The archetypal battle master has studied the art of war for a very long time and applies their knowledge of martial techniques to their fighting.

Maneuvers
Starting at 3rd level when you choose this archetype, you learn two maneuvers of you choice from the list below. You learn new maneuvers as you level up, as shown on the Fighter table. Each time you learn new maneuvers, you may replace one maneuver you know with a different one. Some maneuvers have level prerequisites that must be met before learning them. You can only use one maneuver per attack.

Maneuver Mastery
Starting at 7th level, once per short rest, you can use your action to regain one normal superiority die.

Student of War
Starting at 10th level, you gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice. In addition, you have advantage on Intelligence (History) checks to recall information about pas wars, generals, armies, etc.

Blended Maneuvers
Starting at 15th level, you can apply, at most, two maneuvers to one attack.

Ultimate Superiority
Starting at 18th level, you gain one extra superiority die per long rest that is a d20. This die cannot be regained by Maneuver Mastery


The archetypal Eldritch Knight blends martial mastery with arcane prowess. An Eldritch Knight is still primarily a martial fighter but with the ability to occasionally augment their attacks with spells.

Eldritch Magic
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the ability to cast spells.
Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the wizard spell list. You gain an additional cantrip at 10th level.
Fueling Spells. You do not have spell slots. However, you can cast spells by expending superiority dice in certain maneuvers.
Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher. You know three 1st level wizard spells that are either in the abjuration or evocation schools of magic.
The spells known column shows you how many spells you know. When you learn a new spell, you may select any wizard spell (from any school of magic) that has a duration less than 8 hours. When you gain a level in this class, you may replace one of your wizard spells known with another wizard spell. If the spell being replaced is one of the three spells that you learned at 3rd level, you can only replace them with an evocation or abjuration spell.
Spellcasting Ability. Your spellcasting ability is Intelligence because you memorize your spells and use precise hand gestures to cast spells. Your spell attack bonus and spell save DC are calculated in this way:
• Spell Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
• Spell Attack Bonus = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Spellcasting Focus. You can use a weapon or shield as your spellcasting focus for these wizard spells.



Fighter Level
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
Maximum Spell Level


3
2
3
1


4
2
3
1


5
2
3
1


6
2
4
1


7
2
4
2


8
2
4
2


9
2
5
2


10
3
5
2


11
3
5
2


12
3
6
2


13
3
6
3


14
3
6
3


15
3
7
3


16
3
7
3


17
3
7
3


18
3
8
4


19
3
8
4


20
3
8
4



Maneuvers
Starting at 3th level, you learn two maneuvers of your choice from the list below. You learn new maneuvers as you level up, as shown on the Fighter table. Each time you learn new maneuvers, you may replace one maneuver you know with a different one. Some maneuvers have level prerequisites that must be met before learning them. You can only use one maneuver per attack.

Magic Weapons
Starting at 7th level, any non-weapon that you use counts as a +1 magic weapon when you wield it.

Arcane Knowledge
Starting at 10th level, you have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks made to detect magical traps. Additionally, you have advantage on Intelligence (Arcana) checks made to deal with magic items.

Arcane Defense
Starting at 15th level, you add half of your intelligence modifier to any saving throw you make against spells.

Spell Mastery
Starting at 18th level, choose two spells to be your mastered spells. When using a maneuver to cast either of these spells, you expend one less superiority die.






• War Magic (prerequisite Eldritch Knight subclass) You may expend superiority dice to cast a wizard spell that you know. The level at which the spell is cast depends on the number of dice expended, as shown in the table below.


Spell Level
Number of Superiority Dice


1
2


2
3


3
4


4
5



• Quickened Casting (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight subclass, 7th level) – When you cast a spell with a wizard spell with a casting time of 1 action, you may expend one superiority die to cast it as a bonus action.

• Teleportation Attack (prerequisite: 7th level) – You can expend superiority die (no action required) to teleport to spot within 30 feet of you that you can see. If you attack on the turn that you teleport, add the superiority die to the damage of the first attack you make after teleporting.

• Eldritch Strike (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight subclass, 10th level) – When you hit a creature with an attack, you can expend one superiority die to give it disadvantage on all saving throws against spells or magical effects until the beginning of your next turn.

• Swift Strike (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight subclass) – When you use your action to cast a cantrip, you may expend one superiority die to immediately make one attack as a bonus action. Add the superiority die to the damage roll.

• Infused Strike (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight subclass, 7th level) – When hit a creature with a weapon attack, you may expend one or more superiority dice (the maximum number of dice expended at once is equal to your proficiency bonus minus one) to deal extra fire, lightning, cold, acid, or thunder damage (your choice) equal to the superiority dice expended + your intelligence modifier.

• Energy Ward - As a bonus action, you can expend a superiority die to gain resistance to all damage from spells until the beginning of your next turn.

• Magic Ward (prerequisite: 10th level) – As a bonus action, you can expend a superiority die to gain advantage on all saving throws against magic until the beginning of your next turn.

• Weapon Summoning (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight Subclass) – As a bonus action, you can summon a weapon that you can see that is not being worn or carried to your hand by expending two superiority dice. The weapon flies towards you in a straight line. Any creatures in this line must succeed in a Dexterity save throw or take damage equal to the weapon’s damage die + your intelligence modifier.

• Arcane Shield (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight subclass, 10th level) (prerequisite: 7th level) – As a reaction, you may expend one superiority die to cast shield.

• Energy Immunity (prerequisite: Eldritch Knight subclass, 15th level) – As a bonus action, you can expend two superiority dice to gain immunity to fire, cold, lightning, acid, or thunder damage (your choice) until the start of your next turn.

• Debilitating Strike – When you hit a creature with an attack, you may expend one superiority die to force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is poisoned until the beginning of your next turn.

• Disarming Attack – (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Evasive Footwork (prerequisite: Battle Master subclass) - (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Feinting Attack (prerequisite: Battle Master subclass) - (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Lunging Attack - (Same as in PHB except where it says “melee weapon attack” it should say “melee non-spell attack”)

• Menacing Attack - (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Parry - (Same as in PHB)

• Precision Attack (prerequisite: Battlemaster subclass) - (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Pushing Attack - (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Riposte (prerequisite: Battlemaster subclass) - (Same as in PHB except where it says “melee weapon attack” it should say “melee non-spell attack”)

• Trip Attack - (Same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Sweeping Attack - (Same as in PHB except where it says “melee weapon attack” it should say “melee non-spell attack”)

• Phasing Attack (prerequisite: Battle Master subclass, 7th level) – Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack, you may expend a superiority die to force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it has disadvantage on all attack rolls until the end of its next turn. Add the superiority die to your attack’s damage roll

• Blinding Attack – When you hit a creature with an attack, you can expend a superiority die to attempt to blind the target. Add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll. The creature must make a Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the end of its next turn.

• Paralyzing Strike (prerequisite 10th level) – When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend two superiority dice to force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is paralyzed until the end of its next turn.

• Commander’s Strike (prerequisite: Banneret subclass) – (same as in PHB)

• Distracting Strike – (same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Maneuvering Attack (prerequisite: banneret subclass) – (same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Rally – (Same as in PHB)

• Goading Attack – (same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “non-spell attack”)

• Shielding Stance – At the start of your turn, as a bonus action, you can expend a superiority die to shield a creature within 5 feet of you. Until the start of your next turn, this creature adds your superiority die to its AC and you have disadvantage on attack roll.

• Inspiring Comment (prerequisite: Banneret subclass) – As a bonus action, you can expend a superiority die. One creature that you can see within 10 feet of you that can hear you can, until the start of your next turn, add this die to one attack roll or saving throw that it makes.

• Warning (prerequisite: Banneret subclass) – When a creature within 5 feet of you fails a saving throw, you can use your reaction to expend a superiority die to add the superiority die to the creature’s saving throw.

• Teamwork Attack – When an allied creature hits a hostile creature within your reach with an attack, you may use your reaction and expend one superiority die to attack the hostile creature once, adding the superiority die to the damage roll.

• Pushing out of the Way (prerequisite: banneret subclass, 10th level)– When you and a willing creature within 10 feet of you are subjected to an effect that requires you and the other creature to make a saving throw, you may use your reaction and expend one superiority die to automatically fail your saving throw and cause the other creature to be unaffected by the effect.

• Word of Courage (prerequisite: Banneret subclass, 7th level – As an action, you can expend one superiority die to end the charmed or frightened condition of 1 creature within 10 feet of you.

• Sacrificial Shield – When a creature within 10 feet of you is hit with an attack, you may use your reaction and expend a superiority die to become the target of the attack instead of the other creature. For this attack, you add the superiority die to your AC.

• Pushing attack - (same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “melee non-spell attack”)

• Tripping Attack - (same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “melee non-spell attack”)

• Menacing Attack - (same as in PHB except where it says “weapon attack” it should say “melee non-spell attack”)

• Stunning attack (prerequisite: Champion or Battlemaster subclass, 7th level) – Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a non-spell attack, you may expend one superiority die. The creature must make a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.

• Wounding Attack (prerequisite: Champion subclass, 10th level) – Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee non-spell attack, you can expend two superiority dice to force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes necrotic damage equal to one of your superiority dice at the beginning of its turn for a number of rounds equal to your Strength modifier (minimum of 1). If the creature regains hit points or is the target of healing magic before this effect end, this effect ends early.

• Smashing Attack(prerequisite: Champion subclass, 7th level) – When you hit a creature with a melee non-spell attack, you may expend one superiority die to damage one nonmagical, weapon, shield, or armor the creature is wielding/wearing. Add the superiority die to the damage roll and choose one nonmagical armor, weapon, or shield that the creature is holding/wearing. This item takes a permanent and cumulative -1 to damage or AC. If an item gains a total of -5, it is destroyed. If a shield’s AC boost is reduced to less than 0, it is destroyed.

• Decisive Strike (prerequisite: Champion subclass, 15th level) – Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee non-spell attack, you may expend 3 superiority dice to force the creature to make a Constitution saving throw. If it fails the saving throw and has less than 100 hit points, the creature drops to 1 hit point.

• Damaging Strike – When you hit a creature with a critical hit, you can expend 1 superiority die to deal extra damage equal to your fighter level + the superiority die.

• Crippling Strike – When you hit a creature that is not a construct with a melee non-spell attack, you may expend one superiority die. Add the superiority die to the damage roll. The creature’s walking, swimming, or flying speed is reduced by 10 feet until the end of its next turn.

• Throwing Attack (prerequisite: Champion subclass, Strength score of 13 or more)– When you are grappling a creature, you may expend one superiority die and use you bonus action to attempt to throw the creature you are grappling. Make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check. If you succeed, you throw the creature a number of feet equal to double your strength modifier in a direction of your choice. The creature takes bludgeoning damage equal to the superiority die + your Strength modifier.

• Grappling Attack – When you hit a creature with a melee non-spell attack, you may expend a superiority die and use your bonus action to attempt a grapple check against the creature. Add your superiority die to the grapple check.

• Endurance Stance (prerequisite: Champion subclass, 7th level) – As an action on your turn, you may expend one superiority die to add the superiority die to your AC and all saving throws you make until the beginning of your next turn.

• Indomitable (prerequisite 9th level) – Once per turn, when you fail a saving throw with an ability determined by your class (Champion: Constitution, Strength, and Dexterity; Banneret: Constitution, Charisma, and Dexterity; Battle Master: Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity; Eldritch Knight: Intelligence, Wisdom, Constitution) you may expend two superiority dice to add one superiority die to the saving throw.


Please criticize and critique as much as possible. I really want to be able to use this but am unsure of balance. Thanks.

EDIT: Maneuver lists consolidated and prerequisites added. Let me know if the prerequisites are hurting the modularity. Some earlier changes are underlined.

JNAProductions
2018-12-08, 04:31 PM
Unarmed Fighting gives you a 1d8 Unarmed Strike at level 1. When Monks have a 1d4.

Second Wind relying on Superiority Dice (which you eventually get 14 of) is absolutely insane. That's an average of 371 HP restored every SHORT REST.

Action Surge being more frequent is also a big no-no. You get two per rest as soon as third level.

Greater Dueling is too good.
Line Holder is too good.
Charging Expert is finicky and not needed.
Greater GWF doesn't work as written. The average of a die roll is not an integer.

Superior Athlete doesn't specify what you get on advantage on. Checks, or saves?

Overall, you took the Fighter (a well-balanced class, if a touch bland for some people's taste) and made it stonking overpowered as hell.

Let's take a PHB Champion Fighter at level 11 and one of your Fighter's without subclass or maneuvers at the same level.

Both are Strength-based Heavy Armor wearers. Mountain Dwarves, with starting stats of 17 8 17 10 13 10.
They both raise Strength and Constitution by 1 at level 4, one or the other by 2 at 6th, and the other by 2 at 8th, ending with 20s in both.
They both have Full Plate and a Greatsword.

The Champion has Great Weapon Fighting and Defensive Fighting Styles. AC 19, +9 to-hit, 13.33 average damage on a hit. 125 HP.
Your Fighter has Great Weapon Fighting and Favored Weapon (Greatsword). AC 18, +10 to-hit, 14.33 average damage on a hit. 125 HP.

Champion probably wins init, thanks to Remarkable Athlete. Swings six times, due to Action Surge, hitting on a 9. 60% chance of hitting means we get 360% of 13.33 damage, or 48 damage.
Your Fighter then swings back, hitting on a 9, uses Action Surge TWICE in one round (you can do that, you see, with how you worded it) for 9 attacks or 540% of 14.33, or 77.4 damage. He also uses Second Wind, recovering 16.5 HP.

Next turn, the Champion swings three times, for 180% of one hit. 24 damage each round from here on out. Also has one Second Wind, so heals for 16.5 just the once.
Your Fighter has three Second Winds left, each healing 16.5, and has three attacks, dealing 180% of one hit, for 25.8 a round.

So, the Champion lasts four rounds before dying.
Your Fighter, in that time, takes 120 damage-not even enough to kill him assuming he DIDN'T use Second Wind. But, since he had four uses of it, he's only down 54 HP.

Now, to be fair, I did not factor in crits from the Champion. I also totally ignored your subclasses. So... Tilted in the favor of the Champ, and he lost hard.

Potato_Priest
2018-12-08, 04:35 PM
This is really great! I love the way superiority dice work and your improvement to second wind is especially good. So far I’venotived just one thing: the champion’sstunning attack has a level prerequisite, while the similar battlemaster’s paralyzing strike does not. Is this intentional?

Also, eldritch knights seem weak (in comparison to the others). They should at minimum learn the spellcasting maneuvers for free, and weapon summoning could probably cost only one superiority die.

As for balance-before you use this, you should know that this makes the fighter better. Like, way way way better. I might even say that it is on-par-with-a-barbarian good. A lot of people are going to view fighters not sucking by comparison as sacrilege, so you may want to watch out for it.

Also, unarmed style is too good, as JNA points out.

JNAProductions
2018-12-08, 04:38 PM
Oh-I will say, though. Don't be discouraged-I can get behind wanting to improve the Fighter.

I just think you went quite a bit overboard. To try to help you make this brew better, let me ask you this:

What do you think is wrong with or needs to be improved with the Fighter class?

sandmote
2018-12-08, 04:50 PM
Fighter isn't weak, it's just typically bland. I suggest you rewrite this as a separate class. Take away the fighter's most powerful mechanics and start with much smaller superiority dice, which might let you nerf this down to a reasonable level.

General suggestions:
Start with much smaller superiority dice. Either end with far less or remove the bit allowing you regain them on a short rest.

Rebase the maneuvers off of eldritch invocations; give a good number of them level requirements, and have a few require a specific subclass. That way you have one list of maneuvers, instead of one for each subclass. At the very least, it'll help keep the subclasses in line with each other.

Don't connect your action surge to the superiority dice. Maybe grant a maneuver allowing an extra attack as part of the same action, but not action surge.

Specific stuff:
Intimidating Musculature is something already allowed by the base game.

Royal Knowledge should probably be expanded to nobility in general rather than royalty specifically.

Edit: I agree with JNA'a comments, especially the question of what you're trying to achieve.

superninja109
2018-12-08, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I have gone through and fixed some of the issues - the edits should be underlined.


Unarmed Fighting gives you a 1d8 Unarmed Strike at level 1. When Monks have a 1d4.

Second Wind relying on Superiority Dice (which you eventually get 14 of) is absolutely insane. That's an average of 371 HP restored every SHORT REST.

Action Surge being more frequent is also a big no-no. You get two per rest as soon as third level.

Greater Dueling is too good.
Line Holder is too good.
Charging Expert is finicky and not needed.
Greater GWF doesn't work as written. The average of a die roll is not an integer.

Superior Athlete doesn't specify what you get on advantage on. Checks, or saves?


I tried to fix most of these. I modified the unarmed fighting style by changing the superiority die progression. Howvever, it should be pointed out that while monks get a lower die, they also get martial arts at 1st level.
Charging expert was intended either for (a) a charging build or (b) some crit-fishing build, so I like having it there. How could I make it less finicky?

I slapped a maximum per long rest on the second wind and actually entirely elminated the action surge. I figured that since this version adds a ton of maneuvers and abilities, I should cut out some of the strong abilities that the fighter already has.

The fighter is, in theory supposed to be really versatile and accomodate the vast variety in fighting styles, tactics, etc that a martial character can use, but in the normal version of the class, fighters all seem the same. The main source of customization is from the battle master subclass, so I'm trying to expand on this.


This is really great! I love the way superiority dice work and your improvement to second wind is especially good. So far I’venotived just one thing: the champion’sstunning attack has a level prerequisite, while the similar battlemaster’s paralyzing strike does not. Is this intentional?

Also, eldritch knights seem weak (in comparison to the others). They should at minimum learn the spellcasting maneuvers for free, and weapon summoning could probably cost only one superiority die.

As for balance-before you use this, you should know that this makes the fighter better. Like, way way way better. I might even say that it is on-par-with-a-barbarian good. A lot of people are going to view fighters not sucking by comparison as sacrilege, so you may want to watch out for it.

Also, unarmed style is too good, as JNA points out.

I fixed come of these issues, I think. I combined all of the spellcasting maneuvers into one and gave them a better 7th level bonus. I don't think the Eldritch Knight is too bad because it still gets maneuvers but can choose to use spells as well. If it is still weak though, are there any better abilities I should give it?


Fighter isn't weak, it's just typically bland. I suggest you rewrite this as a separate class. Take away the fighter's most powerful mechanics and start with much smaller superiority dice, which might let you nerf this down to a reasonable level.

General suggestions:
Start with much smaller superiority dice. Either end with far less or remove the bit allowing you regain them on a short rest.

Rebase the maneuvers off of eldritch invocations; give a good number of them level requirements, and have a few require a specific subclass. That way you have one list of maneuvers, instead of one for each subclass. At the very least, it'll help keep the subclasses in line with each other.

Don't connect your action surge to the superiority dice. Maybe grant a maneuver allowing an extra attack as part of the same action, but not action surge.

Specific stuff:
Intimidating Musculature is something already allowed by the base game.

Royal Knowledge should probably be expanded to nobility in general rather than royalty specifically.

Edit: I agree with JNA'a comments, especially the question of what you're trying to achieve.

As mentioned above, I eliminated action surge.

As for the shared list of maneuvers, I want to give out the maneuvers in bite-sized doses through the archetypes. If I just had a list of 40+ maneuvers, that might be too much and cause too much analysis-paralysis, so I wanted to group them with the archetypes that they best fit in order to help new players and underscore the archetypes. You can still get cross-subclass maneuvers by using ASI's. If the ASI-to-maneuver conversion doesn't quite work, though, would it help if you learned two new maneuvers instead of one.
See above for what I'm trying to achieve.

I just now see how many superiority dice you get compared to what a normal battle master gets. I kinda meant that to be the battle master's # of dice + the number needed to fuel each ability like second wind, indomitable, action surge. Any ideas on a specific number it should end with? I'm not really keen on them recharging on a long rest because the eldritch knight is based off of the warlock and regaining spell slots on a short rest.

You'r probably right about better prerequisites but 'm not sure which. Which maneuvers need better prerequisites? I tried to make most of them even with the normal battle master maneuvers if they only expended one die.

This is intended to be a separate option for players to use. If you want to be a fighter, you ask do you want to be a fighter or a revised fighter?


--+--


In general: I'm trying to take some of the strongest abilities out of the main fighter chassis and spread them out among maneuvers, fighting styles, and subclasses. So, if you have ideas on abilities I could eliminate in order to make this less overpowered, please tell.

sandmote
2018-12-08, 08:39 PM
'[56898I'm going to respond to the part addressed to me first:

As for the shared list of maneuvers, I want to give out the maneuvers in bite-sized doses through the archetypes. If I just had a list of 40+ maneuvers, that might be too much and cause too much analysis-paralysis, so I wanted to group them with the archetypes that they best fit in order to help new players and underscore the archetypes. You can still get cross-subclass maneuvers by using ASI's. If the ASI-to-maneuver conversion doesn't quite work, though, would it help if you learned two new maneuvers instead of one.
See above for what I'm trying to achieve.
You're giving the player the same number of maneuvers either way. By breaking it down like the warlock, you'd be able to let the play choose their first maneuvers at one level, and the subclass granting a set of stronger options the next level. Starting with a shared pool of maneuvers would also make it easier to keep subclasses in line with each other


I just now see how many superiority dice you get compared to what a normal battle master gets. I kinda meant that to be the battle master's # of dice + the number needed to fuel each ability like second wind, indomitable, action surge. Any ideas on a specific number it should end with? I'm not really keen on them recharging on a long rest because the eldritch knight is based off of the warlock and regaining spell slots on a short rest.
If you're trying to grant more dice, maybe 8? Battlemasters can get quite a bit out of their base 6.


You'r probably right about better prerequisites but 'm not sure which. Which maneuvers need better prerequisites? I tried to make most of them even with the normal battle master maneuvers if they only expended one die.
I'm honestly not entirely sure. Certainly stronger ones, in order to reduce analysis-paralysis at lower levels. Maybe convert the greater fighting styles into high level maneuvers?


This is intended to be a separate option for players to use. If you want to be a fighter, you ask do you want to be a fighter or a revised fighter?
This is mostly an aside on my part, but I still think it would be easier to write a separate class that doesn't need to maintain the feel of a fighter while trying to balance a full blown system of superiority dice.

__________________


I tried to fix most of these. I modified the unarmed fighting style by changing the superiority die progression. Howvever, it should be pointed out that while monks get a lower die, they also get martial arts at 1st level.
That doesn't mean fighters should be stronger than monks on one the monk's core abilities.


Charging expert was intended either for (a) a charging build or (b) some crit-fishing build, so I like having it there. How could I make it less finicky?
Maybe be an automatic crit when you've moved 30 feet in a straight line and hit?


The fighter is, in theory supposed to be really versatile and accomodate the vast variety in fighting styles, tactics, etc that a martial character can use, but in the normal version of the class, fighters all seem the same. The main source of customization is from the battle master subclass, so I'm trying to expand on this.
The fighters at in the games I've played at have seemed okay, mostly by choosing different weapons and grabbing the appropriate feat. Fighters just get a lot of very mechanically simple (and therefore bland) abilities.

superninja109
2018-12-08, 09:32 PM
'[56898I'm going to respond to the part addressed to me first:

You're giving the player the same number of maneuvers either way. By breaking it down like the warlock, you'd be able to let the play choose their first maneuvers at one level, and the subclass granting a set of stronger options the next level. Starting with a shared pool of maneuvers would also make it easier to keep subclasses in line with each other

I'm going to work on this, but I don't have an improved version just yet.
(EDIT: I consolidated the list but have yet to come up with a suggested list)
I might also make a "suggested" list of maneuvers for each subclass



If you're trying to grant more dice, maybe 8? Battlemasters can get quite a bit out of their base 6.

That seems like a good idea. Will do. Now that I think about it, the 14 per short rest does seem excessive.



I'm honestly not entirely sure. Certainly stronger ones, in order to reduce analysis-paralysis at lower levels. Maybe convert the greater fighting styles into high level maneuvers?

I'm going to try to generally make a level requirement at least for the ones that require more than one superiority die.



This is mostly an aside on my part, but I still think it would be easier to write a separate class that doesn't need to maintain the feel of a fighter while trying to balance a full blown system of superiority dice.

The point of this class is to expand the feel of a fighter. The banneret can be paladin/bard-esque or act like a hardcore defender, have hobgoblin tactics, etc. The fighter is supposed to be very broad. So, I'm making it very broad. I understand what you're getting at though.


That doesn't mean fighters should be stronger than monks on one the monk's core abilities.
I am really torn on this. I want to make it so that a unarmed fighter is feasible and comparable to other fighters (I even changed a ton of the maneuvers so that they work with unarmed attacks). I am not content to just let monk handle all of the unarmed fighters because monks also have a ton of other thematic stuff that doesn't work for, say, your street brawler.

I think this may be more balanced than you think, though. The monk gets unarmored defense and unarmed strikes deal 1d4 and can make an unarmed strike as a bonus action if it takes the attack action. Meanwhile, my fighter gets second wind and a 1d6 unarmed strike.

If you have any better ideas for making unarmed fighting feasible without making it too much like the monk, I am all ears.



Maybe be an automatic crit when you've moved 30 feet in a straight line and hit?

This was my original idea, but I though it was to OP at first. I guess I'll change it back for the ultimate crit-fisher build. I'm imagining some fighter with dasher, and the charger feat who just spams Damaging Strike. Fun stuff.


The fighters at in the games I've played at have seemed okay, mostly by choosing different weapons and grabbing the appropriate feat. Fighters just get a lot of very mechanically simple (and therefore bland) abilities.

I agree. I just think they should have more flavorful and tailored abilities.

sandmote
2018-12-09, 01:49 AM
I'm going to work on this, but I don't have an improved version just yet.
(EDIT: I consolidated the list but have yet to come up with a suggested list)
I might also make a "suggested" list of maneuvers for each subclass
At the very least, I personally find the complied list easier to read. It also makes it easier to compare the subclasses, as I can instantly see what maneuvers they share.


I am really torn on this. I want to make it so that a unarmed fighter is feasible and comparable to other fighters (I even changed a ton of the maneuvers so that they work with unarmed attacks). I am not content to just let monk handle all of the unarmed fighters because monks also have a ton of other thematic stuff that doesn't work for, say, your street brawler.
You mentioned on my paladin subclass that you don't have Xanathar's. I'd like to mention it contains one monk subclass with inspiration from Street Fighter, and another one that's basically a combative drunkard. Between those and the Tavern Brawler feat, I think street brawlers are fairly well covered. Although I'm not sure which part of the base monk clashes with a street brawler.


I think this may be more balanced than you think, though. The monk gets unarmored defense and unarmed strikes deal 1d4 and can make an unarmed strike as a bonus action if it takes the attack action. Meanwhile, my fighter gets second wind and a 1d6 unarmed strike.
The Monk's unarmored defense is usually less than 18 AC before the first ASI (and often lower until the 2nd one), so they are losing survivability for a bit more damage. Although to problem is at both extremes: starting at 17th level, you can pick up a shield and deal about the same damage as a greataxe. You're only giving up great weapon fighting for a benefit you never lose. Or if you stack it with Defense or Protection you get a flat benefit over a two handed weapon.


If you have any better ideas for making unarmed fighting feasible without making it too much like the monk, I am all ears. I fail to see the issue with the tavern brawler feat. Its a half feat, so you can set yourself up to get a +1 bonus to either your Strength or Constitution modifier when you take it, and it has more thematic elements than just unarmed strikes.


This was my original idea, but I though it was to OP at first. I guess I'll change it back for the ultimate crit-fisher build. I'm imagining some fighter with dasher, and the charger feat who just spams Damaging Strike. Fun stuff. Considering the number of attacks of opportunity you'd have to eat, that's probably fine (even with a Half-Orc).

superninja109
2018-12-09, 09:49 AM
You mentioned on my paladin subclass that you don't have Xanathar's. I'd like to mention it contains one monk subclass with inspiration from Street Fighter, and another one that's basically a combative drunkard. Between those and the Tavern Brawler feat, I think street brawlers are fairly well covered. Although I'm not sure which part of the base monk clashes with a street brawler.
Being able to turn invisible, being immune to disease, not aging, ki, being able to catch any projectile, the entire 4 elements subclass. Basically just all of the "magical" stuff that the monk can do.



The Monk's unarmored defense is usually less than 18 AC before the first ASI (and often lower until the 2nd one), so they are losing survivability for a bit more damage. Although to problem is at both extremes: starting at 17th level, you can pick up a shield and deal about the same damage as a greataxe. You're only giving up great weapon fighting for a benefit you never lose. Or if you stack it with Defense or Protection you get a flat benefit over a two handed weapon.

Touche.


I fail to see the issue with the tavern brawler feat. Its a half feat, so you can set yourself up to get a +1 bonus to either your Strength or Constitution modifier when you take it, and it has more thematic elements than just unarmed strikes.

The problem with this is that then you have to wait till 4th level (or be a v human) to be a feasible unarmed fighter. i think I'll just change it to a flat 1d4 and add another unarmed greater fighting style that maybe upps the die. Otherwise, I feel like tavern brawler is just a feat tax for any unarmed fighter builds.

Does this work?


Considering the number of attacks of opportunity you'd have to eat, that's probably fine (even with a Half-Orc).
Unless you took Dasher. But then, you'd have to be 18th level so that's probably fine. I'm glad this is working out though. i actually kinda want to play a supercharger build now with a really cocky character who just charges right into everything.

---------------------------------------

EDIT: By the way, to anyone who might have any input, do second wind and action surge look better now?

sandmote
2018-12-09, 03:20 PM
Being able to turn invisible, being immune to disease, not aging, ki, being able to catch any projectile, the entire 4 elements subclass. Basically just all of the "magical" stuff that the monk can do.
The four elements subclass is for a different theme, and not aging isn't a severe effect. I'm not sure why the rest of those abilities interfere with being a street brawler.


The problem with this is that then you have to wait till 4th level (or be a v human) to be a feasible unarmed fighter. i think I'll just change it to a flat 1d4 and add another unarmed greater fighting style that maybe upps the die. Otherwise, I feel like tavern brawler is just a feat tax for any unarmed fighter builds.
That did not occur to me. Yeah, make it a flat die, and require more maneuvers to get a larger one. That works nicely.


Unless you took Dasher. But then, you'd have to be 18th level so that's probably fine. I'm glad this is working out though. i actually kinda want to play a supercharger build now with a really cocky character who just charges right into everything.
Dasher doesn't prevent attacks of opportunity as currently written. I'm guessing you meant aggressive, which is still probably okay. If you really want to get far with this, try the Mobile feat. Partially for the increased movement, and partially so you don't take attacks of opportunity when leaving your last target behind. Alternatively, the AU College of Satire lets you get the effects of Dashing and Disengaging as a bonus action.


EDIT: By the way, to anyone who might have any input, do second wind and action surge look better now?
I would personally leave them the way they originally were, but the new versions are far less broken.

superninja109
2018-12-09, 03:39 PM
The four elements subclass is for a different theme, and not aging isn't a severe effect. I'm not sure why the rest of those abilities interfere with being a street brawler.
Normal street brawlers don't turn invisible. But, besides that, I realize that the mechanics of the monk actually are better suited to this than I thought. Ki can represent "fighting spirit" and other effects could just be good training, exposure, etc. I guess this does work. But, i the fighter is supposed to be a blanket class, I think that unarmed fighting should be an option.




Dasher doesn't prevent attacks of opportunity as currently written. I'm guessing you meant aggressive, which is still probably okay. If you really want to get far with this, try the Mobile feat. Partially for the increased movement, and partially so you don't take attacks of opportunity when leaving your last target behind. Alternatively, the AU College of Satire lets you get the effects of Dashing and Disengaging as a bonus action.
Yeah, you're right, I did mean Aggresive (stolen right from the MM).


I would personally leave them the way they originally were, but the new versions are far less broken.
I like second wind a bit better this way so that a tanky front-liner can prioritize healing more, but should I limit this more?
For action surge, I tried to basically eliminate action surge because it was too much considering all the other stuff this class gets. But, it needs something for 2nd level. Hence, the current ability. I didn't really have a very good idea for it and this is all I have. SHould I maybe just have you learn a maneuver now that they aren't tied to subclass?

sandmote
2018-12-09, 04:05 PM
Normal street brawlers don't turn invisible. But, besides that, I realize that the mechanics of the monk actually are better suited to this than I thought. Ki can represent "fighting spirit" and other effects could just be good training, exposure, etc. I guess this does work. But, i the fighter is supposed to be a blanket class, I think that unarmed fighting should be an option.
At 18th level, I wouldn't call you a "normal street fighter, and refluff you as being a master at stealth. and/or looking inconspicuous. But I admit I don't care about the fluff in the slightest, so that's probably beside the point.


I like second wind a bit better this way so that a tanky front-liner can prioritize healing more, but should I limit this more?
For action surge, I tried to basically eliminate action surge because it was too much considering all the other stuff this class gets. But, it needs something for 2nd level. Hence, the current ability. I didn't really have a very good idea for it and this is all I have. SHould I maybe just have you learn a maneuver now that they aren't tied to subclass?

I maintain my previous suggestion to grant the first maneuvers at 2nd level, and make the number known consistent with the warlock's eldritch invocations. I expect far less analysis-paralysis when maneuvers and subclasses become available at separate levels.
The new action surge and second wind would probably get more out of playtesting than anything I can add.

superninja109
2018-12-09, 04:25 PM
At 18th level, I wouldn't call you a "normal street fighter, and refluff you as being a master at stealth. and/or looking inconspicuous. But I admit I don't care about the fluff in the slightest, so that's probably beside the point.



I maintain my previous suggestion to grant the first maneuvers at 2nd level, and make the number known consistent with the warlock's eldritch invocations. I expect far less analysis-paralysis when maneuvers and subclasses become available at separate levels.
The new action surge and second wind would probably get more out of playtesting than anything I can add.

I must have missed the first time you suggested the maneuvers being available 2nd level. I'll do this. Also the invocations tracking seems like a good idea. However, for 2nd level, I'm only going to put it at 1 so that you can leave one open for a subclass-specific maneuver because the subclasses don't actually give anything at 3rd level. Should they?

sandmote
2018-12-09, 04:48 PM
I must have missed the first time you suggested the maneuvers being available 2nd level. I'll do this. Also the invocations tracking seems like a good idea. However, for 2nd level, I'm only going to put it at 1 so that you can leave one open for a subclass-specific maneuver because the subclasses don't actually give anything at 3rd level. Should they?

To be fair, I didn't specify the levels, merely saying to split them between two separate ones. Otherwise, I think it works like the warlock's pact boons, as most people switch to an eldritch invocation with a pact boon as a prerequisite at level three. But you probably should either have some weaker abilities granted by the subclass themselves, or move some of the critical maneuvers to such a role.

I noticed there is technically a rule against switching to an invocation with the boon as a prerequisite at 3rd level a few days ago:

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.
But frankly, I've never seen anyone care about it this.

I'm not sure you need more at 3rd level, but if you decide to I'm suggesting war magic by default for the Eldritch Knight, Know Your Enemy and Student of War for the Battle master and Remarkable Athlete for the Champion. Not sure what to do with the Banneret. Maybe a variant of Know Your Enemy letting you compare your mental stats instead of your physical ones?

superninja109
2018-12-09, 08:53 PM
To be fair, I didn't specify the levels, merely saying to split them between two separate ones. Otherwise, I think it works like the warlock's pact boons, as most people switch to an eldritch invocation with a pact boon as a prerequisite at level three. But you probably should either have some weaker abilities granted by the subclass themselves, or move some of the critical maneuvers to such a role.

I noticed there is technically a rule against switching to an invocation with the boon as a prerequisite at 3rd level a few days ago:

But frankly, I've never seen anyone care about it this.

I'm not sure you need more at 3rd level, but if you decide to I'm suggesting war magic by default for the Eldritch Knight, Know Your Enemy and Student of War for the Battle master and Remarkable Athlete for the Champion. Not sure what to do with the Banneret. Maybe a variant of Know Your Enemy letting you compare your mental stats instead of your physical ones?

Sounds like a good idea. I have added this to main document and will update the version here when I get the chance.
Maybe for the Banneret, maybe You get the benefits of the actor feat without the increased Charisma?

Or maybe something where each subclass has its own unique effect for when it crits?

sandmote
2018-12-10, 12:35 AM
Sounds like a good idea. I have added this to main document and will update the version here when I get the chance.
Maybe for the Banneret, maybe You get the benefits of the actor feat without the increased Charisma?

Or maybe something where each subclass has its own unique effect for when it crits?

I don't have any ideas for that many bonuses on a crit, and I'm worried crit fisher builds will end up significantly overpowered with many more bonuses.

Granting feats in 5e is generally taboo, and the therm Banneret typically implies a leader more than anything else. Maybe a weaker ability similar to Aura of Protection or giving some charisma skills either proficiency or expertise?