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Protato
2018-12-09, 01:52 AM
I've been thinking about a scenario that might be interesting for a short TRPG campaign. The scenario, which I might change, is that the U.S and Russia become allies, and NATO is split between supporting the U.S/Russia alliance and the remaining NATO countries. The action will take place in a fictional nation called Aclien in Europe, an island about the size of the U.K, where Russia is currently invading. I'm wanting to have every PC as a mundane soldier but with different training (i.e a tank driver, a sniper, or a machine gunner as examples) in city that acts as something of a sandbox. The P.Cs are a squad pinned down that have to break out of a besieged building and meet up with a larger force in the city as they hold off the bad guys until support can arrive.

Now, what I'm looking for is nothing generic (FATE, Savage Worlds) but nothing simulationist either. I've heard good things about Patrol but I'm unsure of others and I don't really know what Patrol plays like. I know d20 Modern exists but I'm not sure if that's a very good system, I've heard a fair amount of criticism. I've heard good things about GURPS in general but at the same time I worry it might be a bit too crunchy/complex. I'm not too sure about other systems though, hence why I ask about it.

hymer
2018-12-09, 05:57 AM
I know d20 Modern exists but I'm not sure if that's a very good system, I've heard a fair amount of criticism.
Here's some more: It's clunky as [expletive deleted]. It does cover what you need, to be fair, including vehicular combat.

Kazuel
2018-12-09, 07:37 AM
Twilight 2000 might have what your looking for.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/4279275246711830205?q=twilight+2000&sa=X&biw=375&bih=553&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&prmd=sivn&prds=epd:17574448988510565353,paur:ClkAsKraXyXKmvD-5f-UlSWkAl5UzKeaapaUkQBDwzp1RrAk27AqSaK1Z2Y7qzxKCkF1J cCpoLrmFa0nN4KIWLBwU0Svl-S9Wuw2BAFQ3kx7lDdx1blZo8YizhIZAFPVH72s0Yu-7uM_vCofyaDuasDvb4b3Gw,cdl:1,prmr:1,cs:1&ved=0ahUKEwig6qy74ZLfAhUS01kKHc2lAmEQgTYIhAQ

hymer
2018-12-09, 08:10 AM
Twilight 2000 might have what your looking for.
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/4279275246711830205?q=twilight+2000&sa=X&biw=375&bih=553&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&prmd=sivn&prds=epd:17574448988510565353,paur:ClkAsKraXyXKmvD-5f-UlSWkAl5UzKeaapaUkQBDwzp1RrAk27AqSaK1Z2Y7qzxKCkF1J cCpoLrmFa0nN4KIWLBwU0Svl-S9Wuw2BAFQ3kx7lDdx1blZo8YizhIZAFPVH72s0Yu-7uM_vCofyaDuasDvb4b3Gw,cdl:1,prmr:1,cs:1&ved=0ahUKEwig6qy74ZLfAhUS01kKHc2lAmEQgTYIhAQ

The combat system is pretty simulationist, though.

Kazuel
2018-12-09, 12:46 PM
I played it years ago. I just remember it being fun.

Florian
2018-12-09, 01:04 PM
The combat system is pretty simulationist, though.

This is the problem with the overall request. I would actually have proposed on the the WH40K games, "Only War", as that puts fighting as Imperial Guardsman front and center and places a heavy emphasis on the chosen specialization of each trooper. So the guy with the heavy weapon can do hit thing, the guy with the comms gear, the commander... and so on. That works because the system is quite simulationist and manages to model said differences and specialties based on the mechanics.

The alternative would be to go the full narrative route. Friends of mine actually made a comment that made me think. They told me that using FATE Core for a RL tactical game actually came closer to the right feeling of it than the sim approach. Took me a while, but that actually makes sense. Based on that, it could actually look worthwhile to hack either The Shadow of Yesterday or Apocalypse World, where IŽd personally prefer the former.

Kazuel
2018-12-09, 01:54 PM
What’s the line between simulationist and not?

Protato
2018-12-09, 02:31 PM
What’s the line between simulationist and not?

Basically, the level of crunch. I'm not looking to simulate every aspect of a fight, I'm just looking to tell a war story a la Fury or Blackhawk Down. After doing some more research on my own, I've looked up a hack for Apocalypse World 1e called The Regiment, and that looks fairly close from skimming the sheets. However, there's no sheet for the game on Roll20, and it also appears to be for first edition. How much work would it take to adapt it into 2e? Additionally, while I myself am bringing this suggestion up I'm still open to hearing other people's suggestions, and for feedback on The Regiment if anyone has any to share.

Gnoman
2018-12-09, 07:13 PM
I've heard good things about GURPS in general but at the same time I worry it might be a bit too crunchy/complex. I'm not too sure about other systems though, hence why I ask about it.

GURPS is complex in the character building process, and potentially in the adventure design process, but in play it is pretty simple. 4e, at least, has explicit rules for abstracted combat as opposed to crunchy tactical layouts.


GURPS will do what you want fairly well. It might not be the ideal system for you or your group, but it will work.

lightningcat
2018-12-09, 07:44 PM
You could try Spycraft. While the baseline is spies, obviously, you can play military teams with no modifications. Second edition has a GI Joe add-on, while first edition had a setting based on Stargate. It is based on d20, but changed to be a different creature altogether, especially 2e. Gear is mission based, and both criticals and fumbles cost resources to trigger. It also has functional chase rules.


Alternatively, you could try the human rules I have for my Transformer game (see signature). It was originally based on the Exalted system, but if you don't use the powers can get deadly fast. Heroic humans have 5 health before they falls, and military rifles deal 4+ damage. If you do, please send me feedback so I can improve it.

Rhedyn
2018-12-10, 11:46 AM
Basically, the level of crunch. I'm not looking to simulate every aspect of a fight, I'm just looking to tell a war story a la Fury or Blackhawk Down. After doing some more research on my own, I've looked up a hack for Apocalypse World 1e called The Regiment, and that looks fairly close from skimming the sheets. However, there's no sheet for the game on Roll20, and it also appears to be for first edition. How much work would it take to adapt it into 2e? Additionally, while I myself am bringing this suggestion up I'm still open to hearing other people's suggestions, and for feedback on The Regiment if anyone has any to share.
I would suggest Savage Worlds. Weird Wars I and Weird Wars II really getting into it, but the Core Book has more than enough gear and vehicles.

Savage Worlds has both rules for tactical combat and abstracting things via Chases, Quick Encounters, Dramatic Tasks and Mass Battle Rules.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-12-11, 04:05 PM
The P.Cs are a squad pinned down that have to break out of a besieged building and meet up with a larger force in the city as they hold off the bad guys until support can arrive.
Could be a good setup for a Fiasco game...

Calen
2018-12-11, 05:40 PM
Have you looked at Strike! (Yes the exclamation point is part of the name) It is a bit more open ended in the character creation but combat is in the line of 4e lite.

Mark Hall
2018-12-12, 01:39 PM
I would suggest Savage Worlds. Weird Wars I and Weird Wars II really getting into it, but the Core Book has more than enough gear and vehicles.

Savage Worlds has both rules for tactical combat and abstracting things via Chases, Quick Encounters, Dramatic Tasks and Mass Battle Rules.

I would, as well. While it's "generic", I think it handles modern combat without a ton of crunch, and you can simulate specialties through Edges and Hindrances.

olskool
2018-12-19, 07:18 PM
Basically, the level of crunch. I'm not looking to simulate every aspect of a fight, I'm just looking to tell a war story a la Fury or Blackhawk Down. After doing some more research on my own, I've looked up a hack for Apocalypse World 1e called The Regiment, and that looks fairly close from skimming the sheets. However, there's no sheet for the game on Roll20, and it also appears to be for first edition. How much work would it take to adapt it into 2e? Additionally, while I myself am bringing this suggestion up I'm still open to hearing other people's suggestions, and for feedback on The Regiment if anyone has any to share.

Look at Twilight2000 V2.2 (not the original). It is based on 1D20 with a ROLL UNDER mechanic. To determine a Skill you add a Skill Level (rated from 1 to 10) to a Characteristic Score (also rated from 1 to 10) to get an Average Chance of Success with that skill. Initiative is rated from 1 to 7 with high score going first. Hit points are generous so death won't be immediate. The game is available at Far Future Enterprises and it plays fairly smoothly. I have had to make only a couple of changes to run my Mercenary campaign. They are...

Skill Difficulty Chances are NOW based on Traveller's Difficulties:
Average Skill Level (Characteristic + Skill Level = SKILL or a 10 for a perfectly average character with a 5 Skill and a 5 Characteristic)
Easy Skill Level (SKILL X 2 or a 20 for the character above)
Routine Skill Level (SKILL X 1.5 or a 15 for the character above)
Difficult Skill Level (SKILL X 0.5 or a 5 for the character above)
Formidable Skill Level (SKILL X 0.25 or a 3 for the character above)
Impossible Skill Level (SKILL X 0.1 or a 1 for the character above)

You record these Skill Levels and then just "shift" the Difficulty Level for things like target obscured, shooter's wound level/fatigue, or movement during play. This makes skill resolution very fast and fairly easy.

The second change I make is to Initiative. I like a randomized initiative so I have my characters roll 1D6, add this to their INITIATIVE SCORE. I then divide this score by 2 (round up) and this is the number of ACTIONS that character can take in that round. These actions include reloading, firing and movement. The average initiative in this system is 3 Actions.

Just remember that you need Version 2.2's PDF. The earlier version was more complex.

Knaight
2018-12-26, 05:37 PM
Take a look at Nemesis - it's intended as a modern action horror game, but you can easily bump up the action and dial down the horror, or just lean into war being horrifying. It's also free, and not hugely crunchy.

5crownik007
2018-12-27, 01:09 AM
Someone already mentioned GURPS, but I thought I'd give more insight.

There was a supplement for GURPS 3e called Modern Firepower which went into extensive detail on weapons of the modern military. Aside from that, GURPS is designed for use in any and all settings.

For combat, GURPS has two varieties in fact.
The Advanced Combat System and Basic Combat System.

You've mentioned that you don't want it too crunchy, so I'll mention that the Basic System omits the map/board entirely from combat and if you read it carefully enough It doesn't get too complicated, but I suppose that's down to preference.

Honestly, most systems work fine as long as everyone remembers the circumstances surrounding their own characters, and bring them up when they become relevant. It distributes the workload of combat. You can see sometimes on games that have been taped where players aren't paying attention to their own characters so important details are omitted because no one brings them up. Be aware of your own bonuses and penalties and it should all go smoothly in any system.

See if you have a friend with the GURPS Basic Set, 3e or 4e or whatever, and have a skim of the rules. If you don't like it, no harm done. If you do like it, well, bingpot.

Hope this was helpful.