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EternalDragon
2018-12-15, 02:38 AM
Hey everyone, so my wife and I were discussing lycans tonight and we came up with a way to play (so we think) them that allows any of the alignments. It's still a work in progress but feedback is allows helpful.

1. Resist the curse initially but ultimately give in, alignment shifts halfway between the players and the lycans.
2. Immediately embracing the curse forces your alignment to match the lycan that bite you.
3. Resisting the curse completely allows you to keep your mind during the full moon. Continued training allows transformations outside the full moon.
4. Seeking a cure: 3 "cures" exist.
• Restoration or wish can remove the curse completely.
• Killing the one who passed the curse to you is said to remove the curse. (Never been tested)
• The Wolfsbane potion allows the lycan to retain their mind during a lunar transformation but dont not aid in the lycan's control of the form.

We're still working out the DC and checks required to control the tranformation. But that's what we got.

Unoriginal
2018-12-15, 05:36 AM
What is the purpose of those rules? Allowing players to play Lycanthropes?

Spriteless
2018-12-15, 08:19 AM
Well, that seems like it would work without breaking the 'canon' of Forgotten Realms much, if at all. I would make the DC for the saves higher for better Lycans. That way the smaller, social encounter appropriate were-rats are more likely free willed than the solo were-bears.

In Eberron canon, Lycanthropes' alignments are fixed according to smaller clans than species. There are good and evil clans of were-wolves, for example. It also includes the Shifter race, which is a PC race with traces of lycanthropic lineage. Could be worth it if you want to play the furry fury power without going on a quest to find a curse and master it. Or you could grab their abilities for more inbetween forms.

EternalDragon
2018-12-15, 11:12 AM
Yes, it would allow for plays to become lycans and it makes it feel more like a curse. We figured that Remove Curse made it to easy to just be rid of it and move on.

As for DC: Natural born Lycans would have the highest DC, Afflicted Lycans would make it easier to save the farther removed from the Natural they are. Ei: Natural born DC would be 20-22, but one that was three times removed would have a DC of 17-19, at the DM discretion.

It would work the same way with Killing the one the afflicted you. You have almost no chance of curing yourself if you were bite by a NB lycan.

RedMage125
2018-12-16, 11:31 AM
In Eberron canon, Lycanthropes' alignments are fixed according to smaller clans than species. There are good and evil clans of were-wolves, for example. It also includes the Shifter race, which is a PC race with traces of lycanthropic lineage. Could be worth it if you want to play the furry fury power without going on a quest to find a curse and master it. Or you could grab their abilities for more inbetween forms.

More correctly, in Eberron, an afflicted lycanthrope assumes the alignment of the natural lycanthrope who inflicted them when in beast form. Of course, Eberron has 12 moons, and a change is triggered whenever ANY of them is full, with increasing DCs to resist the change if more than one is full at any given time.

lunaticfringe
2018-12-16, 03:00 PM
• The Wolfsbane potion allows the lycan to retain their mind during a lunar transformation but dont not aid in the lycan's control of the form.


Do you mean the Player maintains full control & agency of the character but still has to enter beast or hybrid form during a full moon? So no alignment or attitude shift.

I would make a downside to ingestion of Wolf's bane, it's poison (in fact Wolfsbane poisoning was often confused with Rabies, so control of savagery is kinda weird imo). You don't lose control of your character or have alter your alignment, but Immunity to nonsilvered weapon attacks is downgraded to Resistance. The poison is essentially 'weakening' the inner beast enough for you to maintain control, but it is not without side effects.

ATHATH
2018-12-16, 03:08 PM
• Killing the one who passed the curse to you is said to remove the curse. (Never been tested)
How has this never been tested (or at least had information about it divined by a bored Wizard or something)?

lunaticfringe
2018-12-16, 03:20 PM
How has this never been tested (or at least had information about it divined by a bored Wizard or something)?

My assumption is that by the time you realize you have contracted the curse, your teammates are already looting the corpse of the person that infected you. Basically it makes lycanthropy a non issue for most adventurers.

"Oh crap I failed my save guys, I ....oh never mind"

EternalDragon
2018-12-16, 03:28 PM
Of course, Eberron has 12 moons, and a change is triggered whenever ANY of them is full, with increasing DCs to resist the change if more than one is full at any given time.

My world has three moons, and of those three only the largest and most powerful will force a change.


Do you mean the Player maintains full control & agency of the character but still has to enter beast or hybrid form during a full moon? So no alignment or attitude shift.

I would make a downside to ingestion of Wolf's bane, it's poison (in fact Wolfsbane poisoning was often confused with Rabies, so control of savagery is kinda weird imo). You don't lose control of your character or have alter your alignment, but Immunity to nonsilvered weapon attacks is downgraded to Resistance. The poison is essentially 'weakening' the inner beast enough for you to maintain control, but it is not without side effects.

We're working out a way to include drawback from using Wolfsbane. Perhaps the more often you use it, the more likely you are to be poisoned, which could cause you to lose control rather then retain it.

EternalDragon
2018-12-16, 03:35 PM
My assumption is that by the time you realize you have contracted the curse, your teammates are already looting the corpse of the person that infected you. Basically it makes lycanthropy a non issue for most adventurers.

"Oh crap I failed my save guys, I ....oh never mind"

You know, hadn't thought of that part. Might be that YOU have to do the killing. If someone else does it, then you lose your chance. Mind you it might not work at all, it depends on the lycan that bite you.

RedMage125
2019-01-10, 01:52 PM
My world has three moons, and of those three only the largest and most powerful will force a change.
I was just bringing up the distinctions with Eberron, because someone else mentioned the setting.


We're working out a way to include drawback from using Wolfsbane. Perhaps the more often you use it, the more likely you are to be poisoned, which could cause you to lose control rather then retain it.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395281-Low-level-Lycanthropy-quot-cure-quot) is something I came up with for 5e a few years back, which is my non-magical lycanthropy treatment. Basically, the PC MUST voluntarily fail the poison save against the wolfsbane potion, and accept the poisoned condition. What this does is allows for a new save against the lycanthropy infection, which may or may not be successful.

Willie the Duck
2019-01-10, 02:07 PM
I have no idea why it is grating on my ears, but the fact that you keep using the term 'Lycan' in every post and that people have been correcting it, and you sticking with it makes my brain think, 'wait, does he think that's a thing outside the Underworld movies?' I mean, obviously we all got it and people use short-hands all the time, but it just hit me as kinda weird.

Anyways, my real concern is:



3. Resisting the curse completely allows you to keep your mind during the full moon. Continued training allows transformations outside the full moon.

The later part is just a reward for working past the training. Assuming the DM makes this an actual reasonable burden, it is fine. Just be careful on making it too easy to get through the training without consequences (particularly for later characters going through the process after on character already has), or else you'll have a party of lycanthropes from there on out. The earlier part seems a little more problematic, as it takes most all of the negative consequences out of being a lycanthrope. For something as powerful as damage resistance to non-magical s/p/b, I personally feel that there should be at least some lasting consequences that you can't just train past.

EternalDragon
2019-12-06, 12:14 PM
I have no idea why it is grating on my ears, but the fact that you keep using the term 'Lycan' in every post and that people have been correcting it, and you sticking with it makes my brain think, 'wait, does he think that's a thing outside the Underworld movies?' I mean, obviously we all got it and people use short-hands all the time, but it just hit me as kinda weird.

Anyways, my real concern is:



The later part is just a reward for working past the training. Assuming the DM makes this an actual reasonable burden, it is fine. Just be careful on making it too easy to get through the training without consequences (particularly for later characters going through the process after on character already has), or else you'll have a party of lycanthropes from there on out. The earlier part seems a little more problematic, as it takes most all of the negative consequences out of being a lycanthrope. For something as powerful as damage resistance to non-magical s/p/b, I personally feel that there should be at least some lasting consequences that you can't just train past.

Sorry that's bothering you. I was thinking of using the ideas of the blood hunter: order of the Lycan to be used for transformations outside the full moon.

MagneticKitty
2019-12-06, 04:54 PM
I think by nature of resisting you don't transform at will. Unsure if that's part of the homebrew you're suggesting...

Anyway, i don't think race = alignment makes much sense. Especially when you ask:
Is keeping a vial of were bear saliva to weaponize against evil people to turn them good a viable strategy?

In my game I change the power level of the benefits and not lock in the alignment. Another good way to handle it is, base alignment doesn't change, but if they fail a wis save to control themselves, their uncontrolled state is them but with phb specified alignment.

As for the harder to remove I agree remove curse is too easy.
In my world I use:

Person is still fighting the curse (hasn't transformed on purpose) remove curse

Person accepts the curse, now you need greater restoration, as well as a con save from the lycan against the casters spell save dc if they're actively trying to not be cured

Ventruenox
2019-12-06, 05:52 PM
Mödley Crüe: Turn Unthread!