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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Thoughts about smiting.



nonsi
2018-12-21, 12:16 PM
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One thing that always bothered me is that Smite is not Smite-y enough. It's just improved attack chances and an increased damage output.
A "smited" creature should be rattled in some way.
What if Smite had a carrier effect - a pool of options to choose from? Not something earth-shaking, just something(s) that spell out "Smite".
Iím thinking of Bull Rush/Disarm/Sunder/Trip maneuvers, or Dazzled/Shaken/Sickened/Entangled/Fatigued conditions.

Maybe more severe conditions/effects could be added with level progression.

noob
2018-12-21, 04:14 PM
.

One thing that always bothered me is that Smite is not Smite-y enough. It's just improved attack chances and an increased damage output.
A "smited" creature should be rattled in some way.
What if Smite had a carrier effect - a pool of options to choose from? Not something earth-shaking, just something(s) that spell out "Smite".
Iím thinking of Bull Rush/Disarm/Sunder/Trip maneuvers, or Dazzled/Shaken/Sickened/Entangled/Fatigued conditions.

Maybe more severe conditions/effects could be added with level progression.

I believe there is a whole lot of paladin fixes that adds rider effects to smite.
Possibly even the pf paladin did that.

Alabenson
2018-12-21, 04:15 PM
Honestly, I think this is an interesting idea that could make Smiting a more tactical decision. What I might also do is give the option of either having the Smite apply the carrier effect or allow it to effect all attacks the character makes during the round.

Deepbluediver
2018-12-22, 03:00 PM
One thing that's always bugged me about Smite effects was that most of the ability descriptions limit them to melee attacks. I'd really like it if you could use the smite effect with ranged attacks and/or spells. Not that I expect a lot of players to be building arcane-archer Paladins, but it would be nice if we at least had the option.

If you want to bootstrap spell effects onto Smite, I could certainly see that as well. You could either closely define what effects are legal or you could just make it open ended like "also apply any single-target spell effect of your choice" and allow the GM to veto things on a case-by-case basis.

The best bet might be to build it all into a feat, so that standard Paladins can keep the standard Smite, but then non-traditional players have more options if they want.

nonsi
2018-12-22, 05:24 PM
Honestly, I think this is an interesting idea that could make Smiting a more tactical decision. What I might also do is give the option of either having the Smite apply the carrier effect or allow it to effect all attacks the character makes during the round.


One thing that's always bugged me about Smite effects was that most of the ability descriptions limit them to melee attacks. I'd really like it if you could use the smite effect with ranged attacks and/or spells. Not that I expect a lot of players to be building arcane-archer Paladins, but it would be nice if we at least had the option.

If you want to bootstrap spell effects onto Smite, I could certainly see that as well. You could either closely define what effects are legal or you could just make it open ended like "also apply any single-target spell effect of your choice" and allow the GM to veto things on a case-by-case basis.

The best bet might be to build it all into a feat, so that standard Paladins can keep the standard Smite, but then non-traditional players have more options if they want.


I'm thinking of combining the best of all worlds:
- Smiting will remain a daily-uses ability.
- A foe is selected as a free action and any offensive action the paladin directs vs. that foe during that round benefits from augmented attack rolls and enhanced damage.
- The attack-rolls augmentation revolves around the paladin's conviction, so it applies in all cases. The damage enhancement depends upon the opponent's alignment (if Paladin variants are used, then one of the foe's alignment ingredients must oppose that of the paladin).
- The first successful offensive action during a round when Smite was declared also carried an additional effect as proposed above.

This seems enough to me to put Smite where it should've always been.

AOKost
2018-12-23, 12:40 AM
I homebrew / houserule that Smite has no Alignment restrictions, so if you want to "Smite" something of the same alignment you can. I also don't make a Paladin "Waste" an attempt if they don't successfully strike their opponent.

rferries
2018-12-23, 02:53 AM
I always felt Smite should be buffed into a constant ability - e.g. a paladin's attacks gain the holy property or somesuch. The status effects from holy smite/holy aura could be added on too.

Deepbluediver
2018-12-24, 12:25 PM
I always felt Smite should be buffed into a constant ability - e.g. a paladin's attacks gain the holy property or somesuch. The status effects from holy smite/holy aura could be added on too.

I homebrew / houserule that Smite has no Alignment restrictions, so if you want to "Smite" something of the same alignment you can.
It all depends on what you want out of it- an always-on buff to the Paladin's attacks would be fine as a class ability, though personally I think it's kinda boring and I'd prefer something more active. Also, who it can be used against sort of depends on what fluff you've got for your Paladins. If they are classic lawful-good/divine servants then you'd want Smite to target the enemies of the gods, so undead and evil outsiders, or maybe aberrations. If your paladins are a little more freeform then let each player decide who it targets. If you paladin-player swore to hunt down the evil dragon that destroyed his village, have it deal extra damage to dragons, or something like that.


I also don't make a Paladin "Waste" an attempt if they don't successfully strike their opponent.
Yeah, I agree that if it's supposed to be your boss-battle-nuke/uber-finishing-move then whiffing the attack roll feels kind of anti-climactic. So maybe either make it an attack that is a guaranteed hit or something, or have it trigger automatically against certain enemies when you deal damage.