Druids and Wildshaping.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Hey, when a druid wildshapes, can you apply templates to the wildshaped creatures? For example, a half-dragon lion?

[Tellah]

Nope, not unless there's a feat with which I am unfamiliar.

[kpenguin]

Well, for one, a half-dragon lion would technically be a dragon, not an animal, since the template makes it of the dragon type.

For a broader blanket, you can't wildshape, or use any other ability based on alternate form, into a creature with a template as per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm).

[Quietus]

Nothing specifically says you can't do it, but most DMs will slap you for trying. In the case you suggested, however, it would be illegal, because Wild Shape limits you to forms with the Animal type (which is almost always changed when templating, if only to Magical Beast), and a Half-Dragon has the Dragon type.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Thank you kpenguin. And sorry for failing with my example of the half-dragon.:smallsigh:

[kpenguin]

Nothing specifically says you can't do it, but most DMs will slap you for trying. In the case you suggested, however, it would be illegal, because Wild Shape limits you to forms with the Animal type (which is almost always changed when templating, if only to Magical Beast), and a Half-Dragon has the Dragon type.

Well...


Wild Shape (Su)

At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.


Alternate Form

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template.

Emphasis mine

[Leon]

Going out on a limb i think there is a feat that allows you to wildshape into a Dragon - but i can rember where i saw it or if im getting mixed up with a spell

but no, no templating wildshape

[Shas aia Toriia]

Leon, in the Epic Level handbook there are feats that allow you to wildshape into anything you want. Or you could take levels in master of many forms.

[AtomicKitKat]

As a semi-reasonable houserule, you could probably turn into a creature possessing the same template as you, but then you lose out on the "Stealth" use of Wild Shape. I'd allow it.:smallbiggrin: Just haven't decided if the template should not apply if it doesn't mention "Animal" in the types allowed to have it.

[Spiryt]

Holy crap! You want to break druid even more?

Have mercy! :smallbiggrin:

[AtomicKitKat]

Holy crap! You want to break druid even more?

Have mercy! :smallbiggrin:

If anything, it actually balances them, since most useful templates come with rather hefty Level Adjustments, which as we all know, spells death for spellcasters.:smallbiggrin:

[lord_khaine]

besides that there is a exaltet feat that lets you wildshape into a celestrial animal.

[Leon]

Leon, in the Epic Level handbook there are feats that allow you to wildshape into anything you want. Or you could take levels in master of many forms.

well one is Epic and not of common play and the other is a slightly broken class - nethier of which confirm or deny wether what im thinking of is a Spell or a feat

[TheSteelRat]

What about the "Warbeast" Template from Monster Manual II? The +3 to strength & con, +10ft speed, and +1 Hit Dice for "any" Medium size or larger animal seems a good way to further buff up with Wildshape. Is that not allowed then?

[kpenguin]

What about the "Warbeast" Template from Monster Manual II? The +3 to strength & con, +10ft speed, and +1 Hit Dice for "any" Medium size or larger animal seems a good way to further buff up with Wildshape. Is that not allowed then?

No templates. At all.

[lord_khaine]

well one is Epic and not of common play and the other is a slightly broken class - nethier of which confirm or deny wether what im thinking of is a Spell or a feat

ehh, what prestice class are you refering to?
because the MoMF is only broken in the sense that you get quite a bit weaker from taking it, druid 15 is far superior to druid5/MoMF10

[Leon]

its one of the "how to break a druid even more" classes

[AtomicKitKat]

its one of the "how to break a druid even more" classes

Not really, no. 9th level casting > everything else pre-Epic. After that, Epic Spellcasting takes over. Even without Epic Spellcasting, Automatic Metamagic, Multispell, Increased Spell Capacity, just helps to further the gulf.

[brian c]

MoMF is only particularly "broken" because it's used for PunPun-ing

[Leon]

Spellcasting is powerful, Spell casting and speaking while in Wildshape pushes it way beyond sensibility

[martyboy74]

Spellcasting is powerful, Spell casting and speaking while in Wildshape pushes it way beyond sensibility

MoMF gives no spell progression whatsoever. 0/10. Nothing. A Druid who's really powergaming will go straight, or, at most, take 1 level.

[horseboy]

Going out on a limb i think there is a feat that allows you to wildshape into a Dragon - but i can rember where i saw it or if im getting mixed up with a spell

but no, no templating wildshape

It's called "Dragon Wild Shape" of all things. :smallwink:
It's in Draconomicon, or so Heroforge says.

[Leon]

It's called "Dragon Wild Shape" of all things. :smallwink:
It's in Draconomicon, or so Heroforge says.

Thankyou


MoMF gives no spell progression whatsoever. 0/10. Nothing. A Druid who's really powergaming will go straight, or, at most, take 1 level.

1 level is all they need

[Shas aia Toriia]

Sorry for the question, but what does level 1 do, aside from 1 extra wildshape use and speaking while in wildshape?

[Leon]

speaking while in wildshape?

thats the core of it

[martyboy74]

Just because it replaces the natural spell feats (and then adds some) doesn't mean its broken! Never!

[Ramza00]

2 levels is nice for giants (similar to humanoids in shape and thus items nice strength)
3 levels for monstrous humanoids (war trolls)
6 levels for Huge (ECL 11) combine with Frozen Wildshape gives you the hydra form four levels earlier.
7 levels gives you EX qualities. Though a 4th lvl spell in the spell compedium for druids does the same thing.
After 7 there is nothing really good. Gargantum size isn't that good for your Gargantum forms almost always have more hd than you have and by the time you sorta catch up at lvl 17 it is time for shapechange. Dragon wildshape is done via a feat, elementals you get later on with druid and aren't worth early entry, dimuative size isn't that good.

There is never a reason to go past lvl 6 if you have the spell compedium. Even then it isn't worth more than a 1, 2 or 3 dip.

[TimeWizard]

The Master of Many Forms is one of my favorite PrCs. It's especially useful if you aren't the primary divine caster (Druids make great fifth wheels), or if your DM likes to run a variety of different environments (oceans, deserts). And lets remember to scale a bit here- even a "bad" druid is still a strong party contributer.

As a matter of fact I happen to in the disturbingly diminsihing minority of people who believe every character is a valuable party contributer.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Speaking in Wildshape doesn't replace Natual Spell. You're forgetting somatic components, and material components.

[Slavakion]

It does however let the druid spend more time in an animal form. With Natural Spell added on top of that, a druid has little reason to go human/elf/whatever form.

[horseboy]

It does however let the druid spend more time in an animal form. With Natural Spell added on top of that, a druid has little reason to go human/elf/whatever form.

And people wondered where all those cat girls keep coming from. :smallwink: