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Telvos
2007-09-22, 10:49 PM
When I play my usual character (see avatar), I like for him to use a homebrew feat, 'improvised weapons', so he can use anything around him as a weapon. Here's what we've managed to scratch down :

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Improvised Weapons [General]
Requirements: Base attack bonus +1 or higher, all saving throws at least +1 or higher

Your character can make anything around them into a weapon.
Benefit: Any item available to the PC becomes a weapon of the appropriate type that may be used without any penalty to attack. For example, a chair becomes a bludgeoning weapon of the appropriate size. Weapons with sharp points can become pierce weapons, edged items can become slashing weapons. The material the item is made out of CAN affect the damage; for example, a pillow does not deal damage. A special note is that a character can use an item not normally managable for them, or that they have no knowledge of, with no penalty; For example, a goblin warrior who has never seen a crossbow before could use it as a crude bashing tool for melee.

Notes: Keep in mind that a weapon has to be of the appropriate size and balance to actually be used as a swinging/thrusting weapon.
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While this works fine for us, is there an official feat that gets the same point across?

(We thought at first the feat was game breaking, however, it became apparent that if the little goblin only uses chairs to fight with, he'll have trouble (read: fun) fighting monsters with immunities. It's fun to have someone craft an Alchemic Silver Chair.)

Dhavaer
2007-09-22, 10:53 PM
Improvised Weapons Proficiency does the same thing, but I don't remember where it's from. Maybe Complete Warrior.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-22, 10:54 PM
The only thing I know of is the Drunken Master ability, but that's really just a gimic class. I've yet to see it used.

Riffington
2007-09-22, 10:57 PM
We thought at first the feat was game breaking

Did your campaign take place in a city that banned weapons or something?
Cause as far as game-breaking, many characters have an even more powerful trait "owns a sword"... (or dagger and sleight of hand for those state functions)

kpenguin
2007-09-22, 11:06 PM
Um.... doesn't this kind of eliminate the point of getting Exotic or Martial weapon proficiencies.

Telvos
2007-09-22, 11:12 PM
Um.... doesn't this kind of eliminate the point of getting Exotic or Martial weapon proficiencies.

That's what we thought. However, the lack of magic chairs/candlestick/etc. really makes up for it.

Also, using an axe as an axe is different than using it as an improvised weapon. The damage is slightly lower since he's not using it right. The idea is that he can always grab a weapon if he needs to.

There was an exotic weapons master class in an old 3.0 source book, but you had to have tools and about 2 minutes to fashion something into a crude weapon. That doesn't really suite the whole 'heroic, brave, and crafty little goblin' image.

bugsysservant
2007-09-22, 11:12 PM
Um.... doesn't this kind of eliminate the point of getting Exotic or Martial weapon proficiencies.

No, presumably you just pick up an object and wield it as a club, no matter its original function. This would reduce or eliminate the benefits of taking exotic weapon proficiency, such as higher damage, higher threat/crit. modifier, etc.

Edit: damn ninjas!

Telvos
2007-09-22, 11:16 PM
While i've got some people paying attention, I was wanting to expand on my improvised weapons feat. I had already created another feat to match it:

Improvised Weapons, Flaming [General]
Requirements: Improvised Weapons, Dexterity 12 or higher. base attack bonus of +6 or higher.
Your character is not only adept at using anything around them as a weapon, but has also learned to add fire to the mix.
Benefit: Using Alchemist's fire, torches, or any other source of fire, you can ignite an item in such a way that it adds 1d6 fire damage to your attacks. The number of rounds the item survives is based on the item's durability, and the DM's discretion.

Can anyone make this more understandable, or workable? Right now it's just kinda thrown together. Also, if anyone can think up any extra feats to go along with my character i'd appreciate it.

bugsysservant
2007-09-22, 11:24 PM
While i've got some people paying attention, I was wanting to expand on my improvised weapons feat. I had already created another feat to match it:

Improvised Weapons, Flaming [General]
Requirements: Improvised Weapons, Dexterity 12 or higher. base attack bonus of +6 or higher.
Your character is not only adept at using anything around them as a weapon, but has also learned to add fire to the mix.
Benefit: Using Alchemist's fire, torches, or any other source of fire, you can ignite an item in such a way that it adds 1d6 fire damage to your attacks. The number of rounds the item survives is based on the item's durability, and the DM's discretion.

Can anyone make this more understandable, or workable? Right now it's just kinda thrown together. Also, if anyone can think up any extra feats to go along with my character i'd appreciate it.

Maybe some form of a reserve feat? Maybe if you have a [fire] spell of 2nd level or higher you can add the level minus one to damage in d6s. So a fireball would add +2d6 fire damage.

Or are you going more for a straight up, no magic, meleer type feat? Because I would then have any ignitable (sp.?) weapon deal the +1d6, but burn away in 1 round plus one round per point of hardness.

Telvos
2007-09-22, 11:30 PM
Nonmagical; he's a barbarian. I'm thinking of converting it to a prestige class, but PrC's just seem a bit munchkin-y. Also, I couldn't do it justice.


Because I would then have any ignitable (sp.?) weapon deal the +1d6, but burn away in 1 round plus one round per point of hardness.

That's solid gold right there. Any other ideas? any other feats that would match it? I mean, obviously lighting a weapon on fire is common sense; what else would mix well with this play style?

TheOOB
2007-09-22, 11:42 PM
Good balancing factor is to make it so improvised weapons are destroyed on a natural 1, I acually think the drunken master did this. You also need to make the weapons do damage like simple weapons, 1d4 for light, 1d6 for one-handed, and 1d8 or 2d4 for two-handed, all with x2 crit.

The Professor
2007-09-23, 12:54 AM
Ah, Improvised Weapons. I have a question I'm wondering if someone could answer? I hate to go a bit off-topic, but this' been bugging me.

If for an Improvised Weapon, I pick up a 30' Chain, do I have 30' reach?

Townopolis
2007-09-23, 01:02 AM
Even if you're quite good at turning anything into a basic bashing/cutting/stabbing instrument, attempting to attack someone 30' away with something you aren't throwing at them completely is quite hard without training specific to the item.

You can throw a mug at someone and it's a thrown bludgeoning weapon, but attempting to hit someone at 30' with a flexible rope/chain like object would require specialized training for that specific item... at the very least.

IMO, You would use it like a flail, biker style.

TheOOB
2007-09-23, 01:12 AM
Ah, Improvised Weapons. I have a question I'm wondering if someone could answer? I hate to go a bit off-topic, but this' been bugging me.

If for an Improvised Weapon, I pick up a 30' Chain, do I have 30' reach?

Considering that the only weapon that has a reach over 10' for a medium sized creature is a whip, and considering that a whip is exotic and suffers from all manner of disadvantages, I'd say it's safe to assume that the maximum effective reach you can get out of any non-exotic melee weapon is 10'. Anything longer then that and the weapon would be too unpredictable and dangerous to the wielder to be an effective weapon.

I would certainly allow improved reach weapons, but I would lower their damage by one step (light 1d3, one-handed 1d4, two-handed 1d6) as a balance issue.

AtomicKitKat
2007-09-23, 01:23 AM
Be sure to note how much action it takes to ignite the object. I think it would normally be a standard action to grab a vial from your waist pouch, followed by drizzling it over your weapon. So at the very least, you should ignite with a Move Action(or Swift Action?) for the cost of the Feat.

With a chain, if you want to get the Reach, it should probably be a full-round action. Otherwise, the other classic method is to wrap it around your fist, which should easily grant you a +1 Shield bonus(blocking sword blows, etc.), as well as doing 1d3 non-lethal(or whatever Unarmed damage for a non-Monk of your type/size) to you each time you punch with it, but your attack doesn't count as Unarmed(and does lethal Unarmed damage as though you were 1 size bigger). Monks ignore the non-lethal damage from wielding the chain in this fashion.

Proven_Paradox
2007-09-23, 01:38 AM
According to the Forgotten Realms website, Dragon #295 had an official feat for what you're looking for. It dropped the non-proficiency penalty from -4 to -2. <LINK (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Improvised_Weapon_Proficiency,all)>

I personally would put it down to zero. You're already suffering in damage and critical range; I don't see why fighting with a chair should be less accurate if you've got some training or talent in that area.

Kaelik
2007-09-23, 03:33 AM
Actually. If you are a level 4 Drunken Master, then it specifies that you get reach according to size of the weapon. As such. A 30' Ladder gives you 30' Reach.

There is no interpretation about that. That's what the rules state. Any change is a house rule.

Of course, it doesn't say that it can hit anything inside that range. And reach weapons are understood to have a deadzone. So it would make perfect sense to say that you can hit things 30' away, and as much closer as your DM feels like giving you. But don't be surprised if you can't hit the guy 15' away.

Revlid
2007-09-23, 05:06 AM
For extra feats: maybe some kind of feat that allows you to change what type of damage the weapon does? Breaking off the edge of a candlestick to give it slashing damage, for example?

Talya
2007-09-23, 08:43 AM
I had to bend the rules (but I'm the DM, so I'm allowed to do so) to do this, but it was worth it. When the band of brigands was attacked by the party to get their captured party members back, the stupid hulking half-orc brigand, who happened carrying the party bard bound in a sack, decided to use the said bard-in-a-sack as a heavy flail.

Good times.

Person_Man
2007-09-23, 09:45 AM
The Throw Anything feat from Complete Warrior lets you throw any melee weapon you're proficient with as a ranged weapon.

As a DM, I would be fine with this homebrew profs:


Improvised Weapon Proficiency:

You can treat any object that you can lift as a club of the appropriate size. You are treated as proficient with improvised weapons, and can take other feats (such as Weapon Focus or Specialization) that require proficiency in the weapon. If the object is normally a weapon that you are not currently proficient with you may wield it as a club. You still take the normal -4 penalty for each size difference between you and the object you are wielding.

Jannex
2007-09-23, 04:47 PM
While i've got some people paying attention, I was wanting to expand on my improvised weapons feat. I had already created another feat to match it:

Improvised Weapons, Flaming [General]
Requirements: Improvised Weapons, Dexterity 12 or higher. base attack bonus of +6 or higher.
Your character is not only adept at using anything around them as a weapon, but has also learned to add fire to the mix.
Benefit: Using Alchemist's fire, torches, or any other source of fire, you can ignite an item in such a way that it adds 1d6 fire damage to your attacks. The number of rounds the item survives is based on the item's durability, and the DM's discretion.

Can anyone make this more understandable, or workable? Right now it's just kinda thrown together. Also, if anyone can think up any extra feats to go along with my character i'd appreciate it.

Bear in mind that Ability prerequisites are usually odd numbers, so that should probably be "Dexterity 13." It's a balance thing, I think.

Rex Blunder
2007-09-24, 01:34 PM
If there were an "Improved Improvised Weapon" feat that wiped out the -4 penalty, I think it would be amusing to play a shock trooper barbarian whose standard weapon was something odd, like an empty barrel (2d6) or a full treasure chest (3d6). Might have to be a goliath for that last one. But it would be worth it, because you could insist on holding on to all the party treasure. "Come on, guys, it has to be a full chest or I do less damage! Cough up the gold, guys!"

Techonce
2007-09-24, 01:51 PM
I have a pit fighter (urban barbarian/gladiator from City Works) being played in my campaign. They get a set number of exotic weapons at the start and then another every 4 levels.

The player wanted improvised weapons for his feat and I gave it the okay.

His current Exotic Weapons are Orc Double Axe, Orc Shot put, Pistol and now

Net result is that he is ony at -2 instead of -4 for improvised weapons and he is fine with that.

Complete Warrior has a section in the back about using them.

Zombie pixe
2007-09-24, 03:20 PM
there is a proper feat in a source book for improvised weapons.

the source book is "Seafarers Handbook" from the leagends and lairs strand of the d20 system. the feat is "weapons of opportunity" which allows you to use ANYTHING to hand as a weapon. the only real problem i have with it is the damage table, which i think could do with a revamp or a house rules substitue.

there is no attack penalty, so it is all for it. you couldprobably cook up some add ons to it, but it seems to have all the basic requirements for the thing you guys are looking for.

add me on msn or something and ill send you the pdf.

[email protected]

why does everyone use barbarians with these weapons, i have a fighter with a nice big spine as his primary weapon! addmitantly he is CE but its still fun, i am tempted to make a magic verson, called :xykon: spine. haha, funny.

Yeril
2007-09-24, 04:44 PM
So what is it? Improved heavy flail?

Yeril
2007-09-24, 04:46 PM
If there were an "Improved Improvised Weapon" feat that wiped out the -4 penalty, I think it would be amusing to play a shock trooper barbarian whose standard weapon was something odd, like an empty barrel (2d6) or a full treasure chest (3d6). Might have to be a goliath for that last one. But it would be worth it, because you could insist on holding on to all the party treasure. "Come on, guys, it has to be a full chest or I do less damage! Cough up the gold, guys!"

Hah using this feat I once had a half-ogre farmer who wielded a farming plough.

funnily enough it did 4 or 5d6 damage, more than a greataxe.

Zombie pixe
2007-09-25, 02:20 AM
nah, jsut a 2 handed club really, but it was from an ogre so its 2d6dmg :smallsmile:

i have jsut looked at the table again, it trully does need a revamp, but apart from that it is a great feat.