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GnomishPride
2018-12-29, 03:22 AM
Oath of Asceticism
The Oath of Asceticism revolves around a paladinís rejection of indulgences, in favor of pursuing spiritual goals. Whether a result of that paladinís deityís commands or a choice made independently by the paladin, the Oath of Asceticism sets the paladin apart from the world. They make vows with themselves or whatever deity they worship, as described in the Tenets of Asceticism below. These vows represent the commitments a paladin following the Oath of Asceticism (also known as an ascetic paladin) makes in order to fulfill their oath.

Tenets of Asceticism
The tenets of the Oath of Asceticism depend on the individual paladinís interpretation of asceticism, but most hold to one or more of the ones listed below. However, all who swear the Oath of Asceticism must abstain from one or more physical indulgences - wealth, romance, drink, and so on. The core of an ascetic paladinís power arises from their renunciation of the carnal world, allowing them to gain enlightenment and inner strength. Common tenets are listed below, in no particular order.
Vow of Poverty. In order to separate themselves from the physical world, many ascetic paladins forswear their possessions and instead choose to live a life of poverty. They hold only basic clothing, a simple walking stick, plain food, and their holy symbol. They use monetary wealth only for charitable donations, not personal gain.
Vow of Chastity. Some who swear the Oath of Asceticism give up their physical connections in pursuit of their Oath. They renounce courtship and intimate contact, resisting their physical urges and temptations to gain enlightenment. Married ascetic paladins may choose whether their spouse is exempt from this Vow or not.
Vow of Abstinence. Alcoholic beverages weaken the body, cloud the mind, and interfere with the spirit, at least according to some who follow the Oath of Asceticism. They refuse to drink alcohol in any of its forms, resisting popular opinion in favor of spiritual pursuits.
Vow of Service. In order to truly reach enlightenment, some ascetic paladins give up their own needs and desires, instead spending their efforts on others, be it their family, community, church, or even complete strangers. Those who swear this particular Vow make especially good adventurers with the extra motivation of selflessness to inspire adventurous behavior.
Vow of Mercy. A small number of ascetic paladins go so far as to swear off killing. They refuse to take the life any other being. Some limit it to just sentient creatures, some extend it to any violence at all. These paladins embody asceticism through rejection of murderous ways, contrary to most other adventurers.

Oath Spells
You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed.
Oath of Asceticism Spells


Paladin Level
Spells


3rd
longstrider, sanctuary


5th
calm emotions, enhance ability


9th
crusaderís mantle, haste


13th
freedom of movement, stoneskin


17th
commune, hallow



Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the
following two Channel Divinity options.
Discipline of Mind. If you make a Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma saving throw and fail, you may use your Channel Divinity to reroll that saving throw. You must use the new result.
Forget the Self. As an action, you can use your Channel Divinity to inspire an ally within 60ft that you can see and that can hear you. That ally may immediately take an action.

Ascetic Combat
At 3rd level, you may choose to learn a new method of combat, in light of your renunciation of your old ways. The Ascetic Combat is an optional feature for ascetic paladins, as not all ascetic paladins swear the Vow of Poverty. If you choose to gain this feature, you lose their Fighting Style feature and lose proficiency with all weapons (besides unarmed strikes and quarterstaves), all armor, and shields. In return, you gain the following benefits.
Unarmored Defense. While you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.
Martial Arts. You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only a quarterstaff and you arenít wearing armor or wielding a shield:

You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and quarterstaff.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or quarterstaff. This die changes as you gain paladin levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table. (1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 11th level, and 1d10 at 17th level) If you also have monk levels, they stack for the purposes of determining Martial Arts damage.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a quarterstaff on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Your unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks for the purposes of your Divine Smite feature. When you use Divine Smite in this way, your attack counts as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity.
All attacks made using the Improved Divine Smite feature (gained at 11th level) count as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance or immunity to non-magical attacks.


Aura of Defense
Starting at 7th level, you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you gain resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing damage.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Shun the Material
Upon reaching 15th level, you or a willing ally you touch may become ethereal, as per the etherealness spell for 1 minute. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you take a short or long rest.

Perfect Body
At 20th level, you may briefly transcend your physical limitations and gain a perfected body. For 1 minute, your body shines with a soft light as your pure spirit shows. During this time, you gain the following benefits:

All attack rolls that target you have disadvantage.
You regain 10 hit points at the beginning of each of your turns.
You gain a fly speed of 60ft (hover).

superninja109
2018-12-29, 07:58 AM
This is interesting but seems a bit weird in some ways to me.
The only tenet that does not have an exception and is not "optional" is the vow of poverty. So you get to pick and choose your tenets? Is this intentional?

The Discipline of Mind and body channel divinity seems quite overpowered. Fighters only get indomitable at 9th level and even then, they just get to reroll, not auto-succeed.

I get what you're trying to do with the other level 3 stuff, but this just makes me think whether this concept could be better served by a monk/paladin multiclass or a cleric/monk blend.
However, the problem persists in that you are basically giving the first level on monk in a paladin subclass at level 3 at which point the paladin also gets channel divinity. If you really want to keep the monky stuff at 3rd level, then you should probably just lose your armor and weapon proficiencies. There might be a better fix, but I don't know what it is. Just know that right now, a 3rd level ascetic gets way too much stuff.

The other channel divinity seems fine, but I'm not sure. Actually, it would be fine if you added a range and the qualifier that you must see the ally and he/she must hear you. As it's written now, Joe fighter can go off on his own questing and the gets into a fight. Joe takes his turn and then his 20 ascetic paladin buddies halfway across the world all use their channel divinities to give him 20 actions.

The second component to aura of defense seems unecessary. By this level, the monk's attacks are magical, and nobody else would ever want to make an unarmed strike. I think the first part of it is fine, but I'm not sure.

The etherealness thing is interesting and seems fine. What party role did you envision for an ascetic paladin?

The perfect body thing is very cool and thematic. It looks fine balance-wise. I don't know if it would break anything, but it would be really cool if you could hover when in this form in order to show off your "I transcend the physical" idea.

Oh, whoops: I forgot the spell list. heat metal? Why heat metal? The rest of the spell list seems pretty thematic and good.

Sir Brett Nortj
2018-12-29, 10:09 PM
This is interesting but seems a bit weird in some ways to me.
The only tenet that does not have an exception and is not "optional" is the vow of poverty. So you get to pick and choose your tenets? Is this intentional?

The Discipline of Mind and body channel divinity seems quite overpowered. Fighters only get indomitable at 9th level and even then, they just get to reroll, not auto-succeed.

I get what you're trying to do with the other level 3 stuff, but this just makes me think whether this concept could be better served by a monk/paladin multiclass or a cleric/monk blend.
However, the problem persists in that you are basically giving the first level on monk in a paladin subclass at level 3 at which point the paladin also gets channel divinity. If you really want to keep the monky stuff at 3rd level, then you should probably just lose your armor and weapon proficiencies. There might be a better fix, but I don't know what it is. Just know that right now, a 3rd level ascetic gets way too much stuff.

The other channel divinity seems fine, but I'm not sure. Actually, it would be fine if you added a range and the qualifier that you must see the ally and he/she must hear you. As it's written now, Joe fighter can go off on his own questing and the gets into a fight. Joe takes his turn and then his 20 ascetic paladin buddies halfway across the world all use their channel divinities to give him 20 actions.

The second component to aura of defense seems unecessary. By this level, the monk's attacks are magical, and nobody else would ever want to make an unarmed strike. I think the first part of it is fine, but I'm not sure.

The etherealness thing is interesting and seems fine. What party role did you envision for an ascetic paladin?

The perfect body thing is very cool and thematic. It looks fine balance-wise. I don't know if it would break anything, but it would be really cool if you could hover when in this form in order to show off your "I transcend the physical" idea.

Oh, whoops: I forgot the spell list. heat metal? Why heat metal? The rest of the spell list seems pretty thematic and good.

It is like lent. All day every day! Makes sense to me, well done @GnomishPride.

GnomishPride
2018-12-30, 04:18 PM
This is interesting but seems a bit weird in some ways to me.
The only tenet that does not have an exception and is not "optional" is the vow of poverty. So you get to pick and choose your tenets? Is this intentional?
The intent is for each ascetic paladin to be able to pick and choose their tenets. I thought that requiring each and every tenet for every ascetic would limit creativity, leading to a samey feel, which I wanted to avoid. Additionally, I wanted to steer clear from the rigid stick-up-the-butt ideology that was so problematic for paladins in earlier editions, so I thought having some leeway in tenets would allow for a more palatable paladin.


The Discipline of Mind and body channel divinity seems quite overpowered. Fighters only get indomitable at 9th level and even then, they just get to reroll, not auto-succeed.
I think you're absolutely right; I definitely made that way too powerful. It now reads:
Discipline of Mind. If you make a Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma saving throw and fail, you may use your
Channel Divinity to reroll that saving throw. You must use the new result.
I think that balances it nicely, while keeping the flavor I wanted originally.


I get what you're trying to do with the other level 3 stuff, but this just makes me think whether this concept could be better served by a monk/paladin multiclass or a cleric/monk blend.
However, the problem persists in that you are basically giving the first level on monk in a paladin subclass at level 3 at which point the paladin also gets channel divinity. If you really want to keep the monky stuff at 3rd level, then you should probably just lose your armor and weapon proficiencies. There might be a better fix, but I don't know what it is. Just know that right now, a 3rd level ascetic gets way too much stuff.
I think a monk/paladin or cleric/monk could fill this niche as well, but I don't think a player should have to multiclass in order to fulfill a particular concept if they don't have to. Much like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster archetypes (fighter/wizard and rogue/wizard, respectively), this Archetype combines previously separate classes into a unified and thematically consistent subclass option.
Regarding the mechanical overload, you certainly have a point there. In the Ascetic Combat feature, I did notate that it is optional (for ascetic paladins that didn't swear the Vow of Poverty) and replaces the Fighting Style feature, but I'll make that more clear. This way, an Ascetic Paladin doesn't have any more features than a normal paladin. I agree removing weapon (besides quarterstaff) and armor proficiencies might be a good balancing point. The Ascetic Combat feature now reads:

Ascetic Combat
At 3rd level, you may choose to learn a new method of combat, in light of your renunciation of your old ways. The Ascetic Combat is an optional feature for ascetic paladins, as not all ascetic paladins swear the Vow of Poverty. If you choose to gain this feature, you lose their Fighting Style feature and lose proficiency with all weapons (besides unarmed strikes and quarterstaves), all armor, and shields. In return, you gain the following benefits.
Unarmored Defense. While you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier.
Martial Arts. You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only a quarterstaff and you arenít wearing armor or wielding a shield:

You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and quarterstaff.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or quarterstaff. This die changes as you gain paladin levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table. (1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 11th level, and 1d10 at 17th level) If you also have monk levels, they stack for the purposes of determining Martial Arts damage.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a quarterstaff on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Your unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks for the purposes of your Divine Smite feature. When you use Divine Smite in this way, your attack counts as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity.

Does that seem more balanced?


The other channel divinity seems fine, but I'm not sure. Actually, it would be fine if you added a range and the qualifier that you must see the ally and he/she must hear you. As it's written now, Joe fighter can go off on his own questing and the gets into a fight. Joe takes his turn and then his 20 ascetic paladin buddies halfway across the world all use their channel divinities to give him 20 actions.
A very good point. The Forget the Self Channel Divinity option now reads:
Forget the Self. As an action, you can use your Channel Divinity to inspire an ally within 60ft that you can see and that can hear you. That ally may immediately take an action.


The second component to aura of defense seems unecessary. By this level, the monk's attacks are magical, and nobody else would ever want to make an unarmed strike. I think the first part of it is fine, but I'm not sure.
Good point. I do want the ascetic to have magical attacks, but I suppose they could just smite their way through monsters with nonmagical resistance/immunity. Just to be safe, I'll add the following to the Ascetic Combat feature:

All attacks made using the Improved Divine Smite feature (gained at 11th level) count as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance or immunity to non-magical attacks.


The etherealness thing is interesting and seems fine. What party role did you envision for an ascetic paladin?
I had to think about this one. I guess I didn't have a very clear idea of a role, but I think a support-focused role works pretty well. Paladins are pretty good at tanking and support by default, and I'd like to emphasize the support role with this archetype, so I might tweak some things to better align with that. Etherealness is very flavorful, but it doesn't enable support or tanking very well. Maybe if it could be used to turn an ally ethereal instead/in addition? I'll think abou


The perfect body thing is very cool and thematic. It looks fine balance-wise. I don't know if it would break anything, but it would be really cool if you could hover when in this form in order to show off your "I transcend the physical" idea.
I believe that the fly speed of 60ft enables hovering pretty well.


Oh, whoops: I forgot the spell list. heat metal? Why heat metal? The rest of the spell list seems pretty thematic and good.
I think my initial thought with that was to specifically target people who are attached to their possessions (i.e. metal objects), but I don't think that works well. I'll change it to calm emotions; that makes more sense (especially with Vow of Mercy).

Thanks for the feedback, superninja!


It is like lent. All day every day! Makes sense to me, well done @GnomishPride.
Thanks! Much appreciated.

Vogie
2018-12-31, 10:34 AM
Why wouldn't this Oath's version of Unarmored defense be Dex + Charisma? It's already going to be MAD as requiring Charisma for spells, there's no point in making it MORE MAD by suddenly making you need Wisdom at level 3. Not even mentioning MC shenanigans, a player wouldn't want to have stats for a paladin for 2 levels, then pick this class and need 1/3 of your stats to be different.

I definitely think you should be able to use the Etherealness on a willing ally

If you want the character to be able to hover with the capstone, you need to indicate that. If you look up the stats of an Air elemental, for example, you'll see it specifically states "Speed 0 ft., fly 90 ft. (hover)". If you don't have the (hover) after the flying speed, it's intended that you are landing at the end of your movement.

superninja109
2018-12-31, 11:07 AM
The intent is for each ascetic paladin to be able to pick and choose their tenets. I thought that requiring each and every tenet for every ascetic would limit creativity, leading to a samey feel, which I wanted to avoid. Additionally, I wanted to steer clear from the rigid stick-up-the-butt ideology that was so problematic for paladins in earlier editions, so I thought having some leeway in tenets would allow for a more palatable paladin.
Yeah, I like that. Because really, it is the paladin who is making the oath, not the book.


I think you're absolutely right; I definitely made that way too powerful. It now reads:
Discipline of Mind. If you make a Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma saving throw and fail, you may use your
Channel Divinity to reroll that saving throw. You must use the new result.
I think that balances it nicely, while keeping the flavor I wanted originally.


I think a monk/paladin or cleric/monk could fill this niche as well, but I don't think a player should have to multiclass in order to fulfill a particular concept if they don't have to. Much like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster archetypes (fighter/wizard and rogue/wizard, respectively), this Archetype combines previously separate classes into a unified and thematically consistent subclass option.
Regarding the mechanical overload, you certainly have a point there. In the Ascetic Combat feature, I did notate that it is optional (for ascetic paladins that didn't swear the Vow of Poverty) and replaces the Fighting Style feature, but I'll make that more clear. This way, an Ascetic Paladin doesn't have any more features than a normal paladin. I agree removing weapon (besides quarterstaff) and armor proficiencies might be a good balancing point. The Ascetic Combat feature now reads:

Ascetic Combat
At 3rd level, you may choose to learn a new method of combat, in light of your renunciation of your old ways. The Ascetic Combat is an optional feature for ascetic paladins, as not all ascetic paladins swear the Vow of Poverty. If you choose to gain this feature, you lose their Fighting Style feature and lose proficiency with all weapons (besides unarmed strikes and quarterstaves), all armor, and shields. In return, you gain the following benefits.
Unarmored Defense. While you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier.
Martial Arts. You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only a quarterstaff and you arenít wearing armor or wielding a shield:

You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and quarterstaff.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or quarterstaff. This die changes as you gain paladin levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table. (1d6 at 5th level, 1d8 at 11th level, and 1d10 at 17th level) If you also have monk levels, they stack for the purposes of determining Martial Arts damage.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a quarterstaff on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn.
Your unarmed strikes count as weapon attacks for the purposes of your Divine Smite feature. When you use Divine Smite in this way, your attack counts as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity.

Does that seem more balanced?

A very good point. The Forget the Self Channel Divinity option now reads:
Forget the Self. As an action, you can use your Channel Divinity to inspire an ally within 60ft that you can see and that can hear you. That ally may immediately take an action.
This all looks nice and fixed up now.



Good point. I do want the ascetic to have magical attacks, but I suppose they could just smite their way through monsters with nonmagical resistance/immunity. Just to be safe, I'll add the following to the Ascetic Combat feature:

All attacks made using the Improved Divine Smite feature (gained at 11th level) count as magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance or immunity to non-magical attacks.

You might want to state that this only comes online at 5th level, but you're probably fine.


I had to think about this one. I guess I didn't have a very clear idea of a role, but I think a support-focused role works pretty well. Paladins are pretty good at tanking and support by default, and I'd like to emphasize the support role with this archetype, so I might tweak some things to better align with that. Etherealness is very flavorful, but it doesn't enable support or tanking very well. Maybe if it could be used to turn an ally ethereal instead/in addition? I'll think abou
Sounds cool.


I believe that the fly speed of 60ft enables hovering pretty well.
I'm pretty sure you have to state that you can hover.


I think my initial thought with that was to specifically target people who are attached to their possessions (i.e. metal objects), but I don't think that works well. I'll change it to calm emotions; that makes more sense (especially with Vow of Mercy).
That makes sense.


Thanks for the feedback, superninja!
You're welcome. I'll have to start doing what you do by saying "the ability now reads" when I change things.

EDIT: Yes, Vogie is right, your unarmored defense should use Charisma not Wisdom.

GnomishPride
2018-12-31, 02:17 PM
Why wouldn't this Oath's version of Unarmored defense be Dex + Charisma? It's already going to be MAD as requiring Charisma for spells, there's no point in making it MORE MAD by suddenly making you need Wisdom at level 3. Not even mentioning MC shenanigans, a player wouldn't want to have stats for a paladin for 2 levels, then pick this class and need 1/3 of your stats to be different.
Oh! I totally meant to put Charisma, but I guess I forgot to change that. I will fix that right away.


I definitely think you should be able to use the Etherealness on a willing ally.
Alrighty! I think so as well.


If you want the character to be able to hover with the capstone, you need to indicate that. If you look up the stats of an Air elemental, for example, you'll see it specifically states "Speed 0 ft., fly 90 ft. (hover)". If you don't have the (hover) after the flying speed, it's intended that you are landing at the end of your movement.
I was not aware of that; thanks for pointing that out. I'll add the (hover) component right away.


Yeah, I like that. Because really, it is the paladin who is making the oath, not the book.

This all looks nice and fixed up now.

You might want to state that this only comes online at 5th level, but you're probably fine.

Sounds cool.

That makes sense.

You're welcome. I'll have to start doing what you do by saying "the ability now reads" when I change things.
Excellent! I'm glad. :smallbiggrin: