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View Full Version : Pathfinder Mechanical Trapmaking Fix. Pathfinder



Gibblewrett
2019-01-07, 01:54 AM
So we all know trapmaking is kind of ridiculous.

Mechanical Trap Cost
The cost of a mechanical trap is 1,000 gp ◊ the trapís Challenge Rating. If the trap uses spells in its trigger or reset, add those costs separately. If the trap cannot be reset, divide the cost in half. If the trap has an automatic reset, increase the cost by half (+50%). Particularly simple traps, such as pit traps, might have a greatly reduced cost, subject to GM discretion. Such traps might cost as little as 250 gp ◊ the trapís Challenge Rating.

After youíve determined the cost by Challenge Rating, add the price of any alchemical items or poison you incorporated into the trap. If the trap uses one of these elements and has an automatic reset, multiply the poison or alchemical item cost by 20 to provide an adequate supply of doses.

It's pretty out of balance when you start to add up the costs. Some of those really high end traps would take so long, someone could have raided you before you even got to protect your first room.

I'm proposing a simple fix. It may not be the best way, but it's the way I am going to do it in my games.

Traps are no longer complex or simple. They are just traps. Their CR rating handles everything. 50% less if no reset 50% more if it is automatic. (I understand this will add a slight increased cost because of the double ding from CR)

The formula will be Craft(Traps) DC * CR = The total gold it costs. (Add any extras like poison or alchemist items separately as you would anyway)



Trap CR
Craft DC
Base Cost


1Ė5
20
20gp*CR


6Ė10
25
25gp*CR


11Ė15
30
30gp*CR


16-20
35
35gp*CR


Each range of 5 after 20
+5
TOTAL DC* TOTAL CR in gp



Pit Trap, Poisoned (CR 12) will cost 360 gp + a separate 250 gp for the Shadow Essence.

Even the deadliest CR mechanical trap - Deadly Spear Trap (CR 18) would cost 630gp + 4500gp for the Black Lotus Extract.

What I think is fairer is that it would take a lot less time to make these should your players want to do so. 28 Days for the pit trap, and 36 days for the spear trap. If the most involved trap someone could come up with (CR 100) would still cost 115gp per cr, 11500 total, and take nearly 60 days, and have a DC of 115. Which if you could hit that, bravo, you SHOULD be able to create it in 60 days.

If there are any other rules that allow traps to be made like the Ranger Trap feat, the thing from dungeon scape, and so forth those superseded these rules.

John Out West
2019-01-07, 04:05 PM
The classic question is: Who are these rules for, the GM's or the Players. As it stands it seems the rules are to protect the GM from the Players creating traps.

Even with your rules, something as simple as putting a rock over a door jam would cost 20 Gold, a DC 20 Trap check, and you didn't mention how to calculate time, but i'm assuming it would take a week or two.

When it comes down to it, I think you would need an overhaul of rules to establish things like the cost of a Trap Maker's Time, the cost of unskilled labor to dig pits, the cost of the Materials they are using, the size of the trap, etc.

Knowing that unskilled labor costs 1 silver piece per day means that you can have 6 laborers digging a pit in eight hour shifts, you can create a 30ft pit for less than a gold piece in under a day. Wooden Spikes at the bottom could be scavenged from the forest and for free or another day's Unskilled labor. Hiring a painter to create a Stone-Like canvas to cover it up would be Skilled Labor, probably a gold piece an hour.

If I were overhauling the system I would do it to create realistic rules that put the player's experience first, rather than arbitrary gold & time & CR calculation. This isn't to say that you're system is bad or won't work, only that it is a modification of a decidedly broken system.

Gibblewrett
2019-01-08, 07:39 AM
The classic question is: Who are these rules for, the GM's or the Players. As it stands it seems the rules are to protect the GM from the Players creating traps.

Even with your rules, something as simple as putting a rock over a door jam would cost 20 Gold, a DC 20 Trap check, and you didn't mention how to calculate time, but i'm assuming it would take a week or two.

When it comes down to it, I think you would need an overhaul of rules to establish things like the cost of a Trap Maker's Time, the cost of unskilled labor to dig pits, the cost of the Materials they are using, the size of the trap, etc.

Knowing that unskilled labor costs 1 silver piece per day means that you can have 6 laborers digging a pit in eight hour shifts, you can create a 30ft pit for less than a gold piece in under a day. Wooden Spikes at the bottom could be scavenged from the forest and for free or another day's Unskilled labor. Hiring a painter to create a Stone-Like canvas to cover it up would be Skilled Labor, probably a gold piece an hour.

If I were overhauling the system I would do it to create realistic rules that put the player's experience first, rather than arbitrary gold & time & CR calculation. This isn't to say that you're system is bad or won't work, only that it is a modification of a decidedly broken system.

I'm guessing 98% reduction in cost so players can use of this is for the players benefit? I'm actually really surprised you would ask that. The time is calculated in the default craft rules. Literally all I've done is reduce the price. And if you wanted to hire people GREAT! Do it! Make it easier for yourself. These rules are baseline for a single person trying to do all the work.

jqavins
2019-01-08, 12:17 PM
But if a single person is doing all the work to create his own simple pit trap, why does it cost any money at all? One digs a hole and voila. Maybe one has to buy the shovel first so there's, what, a silver piece? (Yeah, I could look it up.) A better one has some sticks across the top that support a disguising cover, and all that is liable to be free as well (if, say, it's a pit in a grassy meadow then you just preseve the sod from over the hole when you started to dig then place it back on top of the sticks.) If one wants to hire unskilled labor to dig the pit then it costs money, and how much depends on the size of the pit.

I think John's point, and I would agree, is that any formula based only on CR and DC will leave out too many variables.

I agree with you that the brokenest part of the RAW is that the price is ridiculously, absurdly, stupidly high, so cutting it down drastically is a good start.

Are there existing rules for crafting other mechanical gizmos? If so, I would simply eliminate the rules for trapmaking altogether and use a combination of gizmo crafting and general construction on a case-by-case basis.