Ancients Paladin - Dragon Heist/Mad Mage

[nickl_2000]

New character that I'm building for a Dragon Heist into Dungeon of the Mad Mage game. Our group has been together for years, so we are likely to play all the way though Mad Mage. I'm currently looking at a Noble Scion Variant Human with the following stats after racial mods

18 Str
8 Dex
13 Con
10 int
12 Wis
18 Cha

So far I know there will be a Cleric 1/Wizard, a "human rogue, courtier background, plus the prodigy feat. He's multi-lingual, intelligent, and perceptive, but a bit of a prude", and one more unknown character.


I'm stuck on feats at the moment and am struggling with to many choices and would like to engage the hive mind for thoughts

Prodigy to get more utility in exploration and expertise in Persuasion
Heavy Armor Mastery since the combat goal of the character is a more protective character
Magic Initial: Warlock for Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, and Hex
Diplomat for expertise in persuasion, +1 more cha, and the social tier charming.
Resilient Con to get +1 to con, more HP, and better concentration checks.


*Note, does a creature know it has been charmed with the diplomat feat?
**Note 2, I know inspiring leader and some other feats would be good/amazing. However, these are the ones that jump out at me and sound the most fun.
***Note 3: I'm leaning towards Diplomat or Magic Initiate: Warlock since those seem the most fun.

[Wildarm]

Diplomat would be pretty decent for Dragon Heist if you have no party face. Bump your Con/Cha at level 4 and Str at level 8 and you're good to go for a Paladin of any sort.

You could go heavy armor master and bump Con/Str at level 4. Would be a solid Paladin for sure.

With those stats though I'd pick PAM at level 1, Sentinel at Level 4, and GWM at level 8, STR or Res(CON) at 12. You'll be a sticky front liner who can dish out a ton of damage.

[nickl_2000]

With those stats though I'd pick PAM at level 1, Sentinel at Level 4, and GWM at level 8, STR or Res(CON) at 12. You'll be a sticky front liner who can dish out a ton of damage.

That is the conventional wisdom for the "best" character in combat. I'm not really looking for that as much, I want him to be Sword and Board and using the protection fighting style. I see this character in combat as the stalwart protector using his faith and abilities to keep better his allies. That's why I listed the choices I did.

Thank you for the opinions.

[Vogie]

I'm running DH right now, and my players are largely melee, so every time they are attacked at range, or face down a flying creature, they're at a loss. I'd pick up something ranged. Since you're thinking about MI:Warlock, think about picking up Magic Stone or EB.

[nickl_2000]

I'm running DH right now, and my players are largely melee, so every time they are attacked at range, or face down a flying creature, they're at a loss. I'd pick up something ranged. Since you're thinking about MI:Warlock, think about picking up Magic Stone or EB.

Any particular reason why I couldn't just have hand axes/daggers/javelins to toss out in ranged combat?

[BaconAwesome]

Range is limited on javelins, but I would probably go for diplomat, on the grounds that the UA half feats are IMHO (a) overpowered and (b) fun. By the time you hit mad mage, you will be crazy persuasive to a point where the charm is just icing.

Alternatively, sentinel is awesome for a protective tank.

[Wildarm]

That is the conventional wisdom for the "best" character in combat. I'm not really looking for that as much, I want him to be Sword and Board and using the protection fighting style. I see this character in combat as the stalwart protector using his faith and abilities to keep better his allies. That's why I listed the choices I did.

Thank you for the opinions.

If you're looking to be a sticky tank then pick Sentinel at level 1. With a very high AC, many foes will simply disengage or eat the attack of opportunity in order to reach more tender pieces of meat. Sentinel keeps you sticky. No need to go the PAM/GWM route but Sentinel is probably going to fit your build concept the most. Getting it at level 1 means it will serve you your entire career.

[Keravath]

Honestly, if you want to be able to support the party most effectively over the long term, I would be tempted to go with resilient con at level 1. Being able to maintain concentration on bless or some other spell that is either supporting the party or suppressing the opponents while you are being hit in the front line ... is crucial. It didn't sound like you were going for high burst damage smite paladin so you might likely be using spell slots for spells which makes resilient con very useful.

Other than that, a two level dip in hexblade warlock somewhere after 6th level might be a consideration since you'd be able to see in the dark via devils sight, have decent at will ranged damage from eldritch+agonizing blast, will pick up hexblade's curse as well as hex warrior which would allow you to just increase charisma as your attack and save stat, and finally would also get access to both the hex and shield spells which would boost your damage and defensive abilities.

[SirGraystone]

That is the conventional wisdom for the "best" character in combat. I'm not really looking for that as much, I want him to be Sword and Board and using the protection fighting style. I see this character in combat as the stalwart protector using his faith and abilities to keep better his allies. That's why I listed the choices I did.

Thank you for the opinions.

The PAM / Sentinel combo is great at hitting someone at 10' and stopping their movement out of reach of you. Protection / Sentinel work well too, if the npc attack an ally instead of you, they get disavantage and you hit them for it.

[nickl_2000]

Honestly, if you want to be able to support the party most effectively over the long term, I would be tempted to go with resilient con at level 1. Being able to maintain concentration on bless or some other spell that is either supporting the party or suppressing the opponents while you are being hit in the front line ... is crucial. It didn't sound like you were going for high burst damage smite paladin so you might likely be using spell slots for spells which makes resilient con very useful.

Other than that, a two level dip in hexblade warlock somewhere after 6th level might be a consideration since you'd be able to see in the dark via devils sight, have decent at will ranged damage from eldritch+agonizing blast, will pick up hexblade's curse as well as hex warrior which would allow you to just increase charisma as your attack and save stat, and finally would also get access to both the hex and shield spells which would boost your damage and defensive abilities.

Thanks for the thoughts. I haven't really figured out beyond level 2 at this point since I am still working on the basics of the character. That being said, I'm unlikely to multiclassing before level 7 where I get the ancients Aura that provides resistance to all damage caused by spells. That is hard to pass up. After that, I'm going to see how the characters personality goes to see is he feels desperate enough to make a pact with his soul.




Protection / Sentinel work well too, if the npc attack an ally instead of you, they get disadvantage and you hit them for it.

Actually you can't both hit them and cause disadvantage. Protection requires a reaction, and so does the attack from Sentinel. You have to choose disadvantage or to hit them.

[E’Tallitnics]

Um, what's the "diplomat feat"? I cannot find it anywhere!

[nickl_2000]

Um, what's the "diplomat feat"? I cannot find it anywhere!

It's a Unearthed Arcana feat from UA - Feats for skills

https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-SkillFeats.pdf

[Vogie]

Um, what's the "diplomat feat"? I cannot find it anywhere!

It's UA feat.

+1 Charisma (normal cap)
Expertise in Persuasion
Out of Combat charm (1 minute social-friendly casting time) that lasts as long as you're within 60 feet of the target.

[Kadesh]

It was a Skill Feat, but that is outdated content (over 1 year old) replaced with the Prodigy feat in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

It gave expertise in the skill, +1 to the relevant stat, and another supposedly minor benefit (although Diplomat was considered rather borked for a ribbon benefit; your stat boosted, Expertised Persuasion check after a minute of discussion gave you an indefinitely Charmed ally while you were within 60ft of it).

The game is largely better off without their existence.

[E’Tallitnics]

It's a Unearthed Arcana feat from UA - Feats for skills

https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-SkillFeats.pdf

Then to answer your question: No, they cannot tell they were charmed as the feat says nothing about them knowing (either way, succeed or fail).

Edit: Forgot to thank you for the link, so thanks!

[Azgeroth]

so i am assuming from the OP that this is mainly a support/face character??

i.e. a damage sponge/protective melee combatant, with lots of face for out of combat??

ancient paladin is awesome, but are you sure zealot barb wouldnt be better? yes you loose alot of the face aspect, but you could answer that with the diplomat feat at 1st level.

how about a valour bard??

if your dead set on ancients paladin, then i would probably suggest..

1. sentinel first, added opportunities for attacks is no small thing at low levels, depending on preference of face/support i would look at ins. leader/diplomat at 4th, and combat casting at 8th.

2. insp. leader first, because that much temp HP at lvl 1 is just ridiculous, resource free, and do more than any healing spell will.. then again depending on preference, sentinel/diplomat at 4th, combat casting 8th.

3. diplomat first, there is quite alot of opportunity for social encounters in Dragon Heist, so getting this early is going to get you more miles.. see previous points for subsequent picks.

[nickl_2000]

so i am assuming from the OP that this is mainly a support/face character??

i.e. a damage sponge/protective melee combatant, with lots of face for out of combat??

Yup pretty much.




ancient paladin is awesome, but are you sure zealot barb wouldnt be better? yes you loose a lot of the face aspect, but you could answer that with the diplomat feat at 1st level.

how about a valour bard??


I played a bard recently and don't want to play one again for awhile. No, I'm not sure that a zealot barb wouldn't be better, but I would like to play a Paladin. I like the minor magical abilities combined with martial prowess.

[Ganymede]

My advice would be to take one of the five choices you've outlined and choose one. You could pick your favorite or choose randomly.

Otherwise, you could simply wait to make these decisions until your character is actually that level. Maybe something in the story impacts how you develop your character; options you might not have even considered might reveal themselves to you.

Otherwise, good job following the Character Generation rules.