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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next need help flushing out paladin smite rework.



stoutstien
2019-01-10, 05:26 PM
I wanted to fold the divine smite feature and smite spells into a single feature that levels up with paladin levels. So far, I have this rough draft. i apologize for the formatting but i can quite get it right on my phone.

Divine smite- any time you strike with a melee weapon you can add 1d8 radiant (same +1d8 against undead or fiend)
You can use this feature once per short rest. You gain increase uses and damage as shown on the chart below.

Smite riders- when you use the divine smite feature you can augment it by expending a spell slot. You know two of these at lv 2 and any time you gain a paladin level you can pick one you know and replace it with a new one. You must meet the level requirement of the smite to prepare it. A target can only be affective by one of these smite augments at a time.

paladin Lv 2 smites

Wrathful smite-lv 1 spell slot- v-add 1d8 psychic damage and target must make a wisdom ST or is frightened of you for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier. As an action, it must make a wisdom check against your spell DC to end the spell early.

Thundering smite-lv 1 spell slot-v-add 1d8 thunder damage and if target is larger or smaller, the target must pass a strength saving throw or is knocked prone and 10 feet away.

Provoking smite- lv 1 spell slot-v-add 1d8 radiant damage and target has disadvantage on attacks against any target other than you until the start of your next turn.

paladin Lv 5 smites

Flaring smite-lv 2 spell slot- v- add 2d8 radiant damage and the target is outlined in glowing light that produces bright light out to 5 feet and dim light out to 10. The target cannot turn invisible while under this effect. This effect last for a number of round equal to your charisma modifier.

Branding smite-lv 2 spell slot-v-2d8 fire damage and the target must pass a constitution saving throw at the start of each of its turn or takes an extra 1d8 fire damage. If the target passes the save the effects are suppressed until the start of its next turn. This effect last for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier.

Paladin Lv 9 smites

Blinding smite- lv 3 spell slot-v- 3d8 radiant damage and the target must pass a constitution saving throw or is blinded. It can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns. This effect last for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier.

Bursting smite-lv 3 spell slot-v-2d8 radiant damage and each target of your choice within 15 feet of the target including the target must make a dexterity saving throw or take 3d8 radiant damage or save for half.

paladin Lv 13 smites

Stunning smite-lv 4 spell slot- v-4d8 psychic damage and target must make a constitution saving throw or is stunned until the end of its next turn. If the target passes the saving throw it cannot take a reaction until the end of its next turn.

Paladin Lv 17 smites

Banishing smite- lv 5 spell slot-v-5d8 force damage and of target has 50 or less hp they are banished for a number of rounds equal to your charisma modifier

all smite augments can be up cast and increase base damage by 1d8 per spell slot used.





Paladin lv Smites per short rest Smite damage Smite riders know
2 1 1d8 2
5 2 1d8 2
9 3 2d8 3
13 4 2d8 3
17 5 3d8 4




PROS:
Smite on short rest allows more smites to be used more often even if they are out of spell slots.
Frees up concentration and spell selection of smites to dig deeper in the spell list
Unique riders that can activate after a hit means they are low risk spell slot usage

CONS:
Adds another resource to track
Reduces the all-out one round nova damage output by around 20% until around lv 13 where the variant catches up

Galithar
2019-01-10, 06:52 PM
I personally like that as is. I've never been a fan of the Paladin smite spells, because how they are executed. This would make me look at them again.

I might borrow this for use in my campaigns!
So I know empty praise doesn't help refine an idea, but I just wanted to say thanks for the good idea haha

Composer99
2019-01-10, 07:44 PM
Honestly? This looks great to me. I'm hard-pressed to suggest any improvements. Really just needs some language clean-up, that's all.

stoutstien
2019-01-11, 01:32 PM
things to add
-5th lv spell slot max for smite augment. this allows multi class to still have effective smite builds but only once per short rest.
-add new smites
-reduce lv 2 smite augment to one and add new smite/ free pick for each oath. wrathful for conquest or provoking for devout. oath breaker may get a necrotic damage leech life.
-balance smites with like spells. blinding needs to be a lv 2 smite and branding my need to be a lv 3.

Man_Over_Game
2019-01-11, 04:29 PM
Why not just use the existing smites? I don't think it's a terrible idea, but the idea of having unique abilities based on each individual smite, while also having the spells be available to be acquired from other sources, just feels kinda off to me.

Additionally, the spell smites are really underused. While this does change the Paladin, this doesn't really help other sources who can use spell smites (some Clerics, Hexblade, etc). Maybe just tuning the spell smites to trigger after a hit, and allowing you to cast them as part of your Divine Smite alternative is enough to kill two birds with one stone?

superninja109
2019-01-11, 07:36 PM
Also, one thing to note is that you have given the paladin a short rest smite without reducing spell slots. Basically, you have given the paladin extra spell slots every short rest. Yes, you marginally decrease the versatality since you cannot allocate your spell slots to regular smites.

The bottom line is, you don't want to just hand out a ton of free spell slots, so I would recommend that you turn the paladin into a 1/3 caster so that you don't make this totally overpowered.

stoutstien
2019-01-11, 09:39 PM
Why not just use the existing smites? I don't think it's a terrible idea, but the idea of having unique abilities based on each individual smite, while also having the spells be available to be acquired from other sources, just feels kinda off to me.

Additionally, the spell smites are really underused. While this does change the Paladin, this doesn't really help other sources who can use spell smites (some Clerics, Hexblade, etc). Maybe just tuning the spell smites to trigger after a hit, and allowing you to cast them as part of your Divine Smite alternative is enough to kill two birds with one stone?
I started with that idea but having the smite spells trigger on hit makes them too strong. Then I figured I'd try to start from scratch and see what happens.

stoutstien
2019-01-11, 10:28 PM
Also, one thing to note is that you have given the paladin a short rest smite without reducing spell slots. Basically, you have given the paladin extra spell slots every short rest. Yes, you marginally decrease the versatality since you cannot allocate your spell slots to regular smites.

The bottom line is, you don't want to just hand out a ton of free spell slots, so I would recommend that you turn the paladin into a 1/3 caster so that you don't make this totally overpowered.
If we compare a phb pally vs this the phb is way ahead in flat out damage output. In the case of using all slots for smites
Lv 2 Phb could burn both spell slots for an extra 4d8.(ba thunderous smite then divine smite.)
Lv 2 variant smite plus augment for 2d8. Then they could repeat after a short rest. Then if we assume 2 short rest per long rest they could add a another 1d8. So over a normal day my smite give an extra 1d8 but spreads them out .
Lv 5
Phb- 8d8 with using both lv 2 slots and a first lv slot for thunderous. Can repeat next round for 6d8 same action.
Variant- 6d8 using two lv 2 slots and both smites and now can't smite until after a short rest.

Now it's hard to factor in the free concentration as far as damage output. honestly the player handbook version of divine smite would have been better on the eldrick knight just using magic the field damage it's just not very paladin feeling.
Of course I could just roll the smite into the spells all together but I wanted the class to be able to smite even if they never dedicate spell slots to it. Now the question is is 1d8 once per short rest equal to a spell slot? I don't think so but that's just my opinion.