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View Full Version : THOSE are my "peers"? no wonder i have a superiority complex



tannish2
2007-09-26, 02:10 AM
"how are you supposed to protest an abusive authority when an authority figure has told you not to?"-steven colbert

i am not quoting the exact statement that inspired that one, because its not so eloquently phrased and just reading it would cause you to become stupider. but that seems to be the mentality of those around me in my age group(im not talking about the specific incident that that quote appeared in a segment on), now, i have to ask anyone slightly older... is this really something for me to be worried about? or did every generation act like this at some point? seriously, im scared. now this has great potential to turn into politics within 5 or 6 seconds, so remember to try not to. i just want to know if its actually something to be scared of (and to not go off on rants at people who insult people of whatever age group i happen to be in at the time) or if its something to be scared of, and be aware of in old people, or something that is just a phase that most people go through.

please, help, whenever im in public with large groups of people my age i have a tendency to try and think happy thoughts with my eyes shut and my fingers in my ears.

Semidi
2007-09-26, 02:16 AM
Kids are stupid.

As true today as when it was first said. Kids will always be stupid, and have always been stupid. Yes that was a huge generalization, deal with it punks.

My best advice from someone who has experienced that special hell recently:
Do your own thing, to hell with everyone else and their thing that is so vastly different than your own. You might be shocked to discover that some of your peers' own thing coincides with your own nicely.

Hehe… thing.

tannish2
2007-09-26, 02:46 AM
ok, thanks, thats generally what i do anyway, but it just occured to me recently that these people might vote soon. and if your right i WONT have to go insane.

Serpentine
2007-09-26, 02:50 AM
I don't think I understand your problem. Are your peers just kinda bending over under authority?

tannish2
2007-09-26, 03:47 AM
well, beyond the total stupidity (which ive noticed in just about everyone, they are just showing it in their own.... special... way) and they arent actually my peers, their just called that by many people because they are the same age as me. anyway ive noticed a lack of logic and definetly bending over to ANY authority no matter how ridiculous and following any rule no matter bow arbitrary, without questioning it. and finding the very thought of questioning any rule(or set of rules) appaling. even

1. you will always place pickles on your head
2. you will deficate in your lunchbox, if you do not have a lunchbox then use the nearest tree
3. you will not recognize the existence of rule 4, and you will write rule 3 anywhere possible and use it as a greeting
4. you will not recognize the existence of rule 3, and you will write rule 4 anywhere possible and use it as a greeting
5. these rules are not to be questioned under any circumstances, and are all true
6. these rules are all false
7. your teeth are purple and green, but only on tuesdays
8. you love pie
9. you hate pie

as long as it was presented by someone with the proper authority. anyway its just unwillingness to question ANYTHING without being told to, then guided through the process. and i dont want to share a planet with too many of those people, basically, their not just beinding over under authority, their bending over backwards and asking if it would like anything to drink, and not just legitimate authority, any authority. not to mention... something i cant quite think of right now because i need sleep.

Archonic Energy
2007-09-26, 03:54 AM
KidsPeople are stupid.


Fixed that for you!

here's a quote for you
"you're overworked, underpaid, unappreciated & you are surrounded by incompitent idiots... welcome to the world, it's just you & everyone else" Lois - Malcolm in the middle

Pyrian
2007-09-26, 04:33 AM
I don't really think you can talk meaningfully about authority without delving at least indirectly into politics; I don't think the subjects are truly distinguishable, since there is no politics without authority and any form of authority will tend to end up involving something strongly resembling politics (thus "office politics").

That being said, I've always found the application of politics to be more effective than the application of defiance. It is the nature of authority to have more and/or larger guns.

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 05:48 AM
Kids showing too much respect for authorities?
Huh. That's a new one. Usually, around here, all I hear about is the opposite.

However, a teacher with whom we (our class from back then) meet every year has been telling us that he noticed some... worrying tendencies about the children nowadays. Mostly, that they seem less happy than they used to be ten years ago. And that they are more cynical, more nihilistic, even, about life.

Serpentine
2007-09-26, 06:32 AM
I do find it worrying if people unquestionably believe everything they're told... Say, if they assume that advertisers are telling the truth because there's laws about it, or that politicians wouldn't lie to their people. Annnnnnnd that's enough out of me. PM me for a rant on the Australian voting populace!

Catch
2007-09-26, 06:37 AM
Conform! Do what you'e told! Trust authority!

Nothing to see here, move along.

--

Really though, people have been submitting to authority as long as authority has existed. It's part of our biology. Your dog listens to you because it sees you as the alpha male; You're not going to see Fido and Fifi staging a protest march. In nature, authority is taken, always by the most dominating animal in a group. Everyone gets along and keeps their respective noses down because there's a distinct pecking order in place.

The prime difference with people is that pesky notion of self-awareness and metacognition. We are the only species with the capacity to ask "why?", and we tend to use it for all the wrong reasons and at all the wrong times. We submit to authority by instinct and by social conditioning, but argue and protest over the right to yak on our cell phones while driving or to dress like streetwalker. By our nature, we submit to those more powerful than us, a concept which is distinctly different from the animal kingdom in that "power" is a far broader concept where humanity is concerned.

To cut my rambling short, I'll just make my final point.

Human beings conform because we want to. It's safe, it's comforting and it's normal. Baaaaaa.

---

Ditch the superiority complex, though. No one likes a smartass.

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 06:42 AM
I'm still surprised. I meet people who are rebels for the sake of rebellion and without a cause much more often than mindless sheep. (Both of which are roughly equally stupid and dangerous)

Rex Idiotarum
2007-09-26, 06:49 AM
You're smart, rather than fight it, abuse it. Lead the Revolution!

Please, look at every generation, as you get closer to the present, they just progressively given up. Hippies fought long and hard, hell, there's still some fighting it today. Kids of the Seventies have had quieter rebellions, but there were still many, then the eighties was about activism's deathcry, then you have slackers, grunge, goth, which was just grieving period of activism, and now, gen apathy. Generation Why bother?

So, is your generation just the out put of apathy and submission, or is it waiting for a voice to arise to revive the angry spirit and put them all to rise up against authority?

Well, that is for you to decide.

Brickwall
2007-09-26, 06:53 AM
Good news! They don't actually get any better! You'd better find different people to be around, otherwise you'll have to deal with it your whole life! HOORAY!

Trog
2007-09-26, 08:11 AM
1) Everyone follows one herd or another.
2) Everyone thinks that, on some level, they do not follow any herd
3) Everyone is wrong about #2 :smalltongue:
4) Everyone thinks that, on some level, that #3 does not apply to them
5) Everyone is wrong about #4 :smalltongue:

Serpentine
2007-09-26, 08:44 AM
YES, WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS
I'm not.
SSSSSHHHHHH

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 08:53 AM
YES, WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS
I'm not.
SSSSSHHHHHHhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qANMjwLmo6Y :smallbiggrin:

Syka
2007-09-26, 09:30 AM
Mmm...nope, nothing new.

When I was in 9th grade, I remember coming home one day and telling my mom, "I fear for the future if the kids I'm going to school with are going to rule one day."

With me, it's the apathy that worries me. But what can you do other than make sure you do not become apathetic and try to encourage other people to do the same?

And yes...they are stupid. That can, potentially, change. But don't think you're any better. You might be slightly better/more mature/what have you than your typical person of your age, but trust me. Your still stupid. :) I know I still have my moments of stupidity. There are people I'm much more intelligent/whathaveyou than, and I know there are people that I know who are much more intelligent/whathave you than I am. It's life.

Cheers,
Syka

Artemician
2007-09-26, 09:41 AM
But don't think you're any better. You might be slightly better/more mature/what have you than your typical person of your age, but trust me. Your still stupid. :) I know I still have my moments of stupidity. There are people I'm much more intelligent/whathaveyou than, and I know there are people that I know who are much more intelligent/whathave you than I am. It's life.

Cheers,
Syka

Hear, hear.

I pretty much used to think the same way as Tannish, albeit about different sorts of issues.

Basically, it was the standard "intelligence" thing.. why are people so dumb.. yada yada.

Then I graduated from Primary School and went to Secondary School.

MAN>, was it an eye-opener. I, the previous big fish in a small pond, was now a small fish in a big pond. There were people smarter than me in every way, people who worked faster and more efficiently than me, people who were better networked than me.. etc etc. I wasn't so intelligent after all!

I grew depressed. I felt like my life wasn't going anywhere.

And then I read up on real cases of depression. Real people, with life experiences that made my pitiful quibbles seem trivial in comparison. And I wasn't really so pitiful after all.

Likewise, I still think that I am more mature about issues than most kids my age, but when I move on to Junior College, I expect that viewpoint to change.

We can only look at the world from the bottom of our own little wells. It's important to know the big picture before setting yourself over anyone else.

Thes Hunter
2007-09-26, 10:49 AM
I think apathy has been pretty common through the centuries. Look at history, there is example after example of oppression that people just suck up and take for generations. It wasn't until someone said the right words, who had the right connections, at the right time, were people able to be led against those who did them harm.

I think we only feel things should be different now because we have been taught oppression is bad and should be questioned and fought against. However, now we have TV, which is the greatest cause of apathy known to man.

Fascisticide
2007-09-26, 11:13 AM
This has nothing to do with age.

George Orwell made a great case of it in his book 1984. The whole book is exactly that.

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 11:33 AM
I think the point of people just following authority without question is made much more directly in Animal Farm and in Huxley's Brave New World than in 1984.

Ganurath
2007-09-26, 11:36 AM
I thought Bread and Circuses explained it pretty well. Note: Not a real book to my knowledge. Referencing period of pacification in Rome's history.

Green Bean
2007-09-26, 11:38 AM
1) Everyone follows one herd or another.
2) Everyone thinks that, on some level, they do not follow any herd
3) Everyone is wrong about #2 :smalltongue:
4) Everyone thinks that, on some level, that #3 does not apply to them
5) Everyone is wrong about #4 :smalltongue:

I totally agree with you in every way. Of course, these rules don't apply to me; I'm entirely my own person. :smallbiggrin:

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-26, 11:41 AM
Meh, life sucks for teenagers in society, higher car insurance (when we can drive) looked down on by society as in-human beings, but look on the brightside we get student rail cards and no we cant change the way we are treated because as my previous headmaster said "if one of you let the class down its everyone else's fault aswell" you have to love the wisdom there..........:smallconfused:

Raiser Blade
2007-09-26, 11:42 AM
I'm apathetic about apathy.


Seriously though i think Relient K sums it up.

Apathetic is a pathetic way to live.

Vaynor
2007-09-26, 11:56 AM
Wait.. are you really 96 or am I missing something here?

Crow
2007-09-26, 12:03 PM
Kids are stupid.

As true today as when it was first said. Kids will always be stupid, and have always been stupid. Yes that was a huge generalization, deal with it punks.

My best advice from someone who has experienced that special hell recently:
Do your own thing, to hell with everyone else and their thing that is so vastly different than your own. You might be shocked to discover that some of your peers' own thing coincides with your own nicely.

Hehe… thing.


This is all that needed to be said.

tannish2
2007-09-26, 12:25 PM
no im not really 96. i just entered a random year that made me seem old. oldness seems to have weight, also, its part of an inside joke.

and its not too much respect for authority, its ALMOST the opposite. they just dont question it. and find the idea of questioning it completely alien.

well ive seen some stuff that reassuring and some thats... whatever the opposite of reassuring is.

and its not the people i hang out with, im noticing in almost ALL of them. which is ****ing scary, they dont question any statement made by anyone if they have authority on the subject. if someone with a shiny peice of paper that says they know about math walks up, shows it to a few of them, and says "1+1=x-7 x(=/<, i dont know how to make it on my keyboard)1 then it will be known as a fact to them for the rest of their lives.

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-26, 12:26 PM
Kids are stupid.

As true today as when it was first said. Kids will always be stupid, and have always been stupid. Yes that was a huge generalization, deal with it punks.

My best advice from someone who has experienced that special hell recently:
Do your own thing, to hell with everyone else and their thing that is so vastly different than your own. You might be shocked to discover that some of your peers' own thing coincides with your own nicely.

Hehe… thing.

Sounds good to me :smallbiggrin:

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 12:42 PM
and its not the people i hang out with, im noticing in almost ALL of them. which is ****ing scary, they dont question any statement made by anyone if they have authority on the subject. if someone with a shiny peice of paper that says they know about math walks up, shows it to a few of them, and says "1+1=x-7 x(=/<, i dont know how to make it on my keyboard)1 then it will be known as a fact to them for the rest of their lives.That doesn't change, though.
When I started studying at university, a co-student, meanwhile a friend of mine, was attending the same mathematics course as I did. One time, the professor wrote something blatantly wrong on the table (lim(cos(x)/x)=0 for x->0, if I remember correctly). Somehow, nobody noticed it at this moment. Later, when we were solving exercises, we noticed that, and began arguing about it. My friend maintained firmly that if the professor said so, it had to be true; me pointing out that this cannot be, since cos(0)=1 and 1/0 definitely is not 0 did not convince him at all. And I should note that said friend of mine is usually much better at math than I am.
Needless to say, the first thing the professor did at the beginning of the next lecture was to announce he had made a mistake there and corrected the equation...
The moral of this anecdote: Everybody, no matter how smart they are, can fall for the trap of too much belief in the infallibility of authorities.

landadmiral
2007-09-26, 12:46 PM
I think you should be scared.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but why do you think young boys are increasingly being diagnosed with ADHD and are prescribed ritalin, zanax, etc? Authority figures want an unquestioning mass to do what they want and not question them.

Anyone here see the video of the college student getting tazered in Florida for asking an improper question to Sen Kerry? He wanted hold Kerry accountable for being in the same skull & bones group as Bush. The campus police ended up tazering him for not submitting and withdrawing the question. Kerry let it happen. No one stood up to stop it from happening except girls screaming in the background.

Lesson: do not question authority. political correctness is set up to control thought and speech. do not question authority.

Hell, I just heard an interview on the radio featuring a spokesman (excuse me, spokesWOMAN) for homeland security. We have caught 2 seperate groups of al queda crossing the southern border into america but have yet to do anything to close the border to illegals. Congress has passed the law to build a fence and money has been put aside to do so but only 17 miles have been built. Her response was, 1 the bill didn't actually pass and 2 there is concern over the border and wouldn't answer any questions. But do not question it or you'll be labled a racist.

Your living in a microcosm of a bigger problem. Sorry about going off, but this really pisses me off

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-26, 12:51 PM
You have all been deemed individual, termination authorised!

Jack Squat
2007-09-26, 12:54 PM
I think you should be scared.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but why do you think young boys are increasingly being diagnosed with ADHD and are prescribed ritalin, zanax, etc? Authority figures want an unquestioning mass to do what they want and not question them.

Anyone here see the video of the college student getting tazered in Florida for asking an improper question to Sen Kerry? He wanted hold Kerry accountable for being in the same skull & bones group as Bush. The campus police ended up tazering him for not submitting and withdrawing the question. Kerry let it happen. No one stood up to stop it from happening except girls screaming in the background.

Actually, he was being pulled off because he was only supposed to ask one question. First they shut off his mic and he refused to move. Then the cops came up and tried to get him to leave. All the while Kerry was saying he'd go ahead and answer the question, or at least according to the article I read about it. I only glanced at the video myself.


Lesson: do not question authority. political correctness is set up to control thought and speech. do not question authority.

thus the reason why I'm only slightly more PC than Mel Brooks.

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 12:55 PM
You have all been deemed individual, termination authorised!Please report to the next termination booth. Remember, the Computer is your Friend. Have a nice day. :smallbiggrin:

landadmiral
2007-09-26, 01:08 PM
Actually, he was being pulled off because he was only supposed to ask one question. First they shut off his mic and he refused to move. Then the cops came up and tried to get him to leave. All the while Kerry was saying he'd go ahead and answer the question, or at least according to the article I read about it. I only glanced at the video myself.

Wonderful!! We live in a society that will tazer you for asking 2 questions!!

seriously though, we really really need to hold authorities accountable for thier actions - question them - challenge them and - respect them (they did earn their position). then we replace them when we are unable to hold them accountable or question them.

we really need to vote out every single politician that has been in washington for over 8 years

Syka
2007-09-26, 01:11 PM
As a student at the university in question...

He was not tasered for asking a question!

*ahem* I'm sick and tired of people saying it's a free speech issue. IT ISN'T! He rushed into the forum (from outside), grabbed the mic from another student (who was supposed to be the last question), and demanded to talk. Kerry told the police, who'd followed him in, to allow it...after the other student had a turn. His microphone was cut off after both going over the alloted time limit (for ALL students), and for using profanity. Kerry still attempted to answer his questions. The police were told, by ACCENT (the group who brought Kerry on campus) to escort him out. They were not trying to arrest him, until he began flailing around and yelling, putting both officers and students in danger. You can't tell what sort of training a person has in this day (I know some martial arts training makes it so a persons hands are classified as a deadly weapon). He was only tasered after they were unable to cuff his left hand, and was still struggling.

Also, this kid has a record of causing disturbances.

Please get all the facts, not just a 30 second video only showing the tasering itself. :smallsmile:

Cheers,
Syka

tannish2
2007-09-26, 01:26 PM
oh the specific incident might count as politics (and maybe we should steer away from that, i THINK its against the forum rules, not completely sure and too lazy to check right now though) and im not commenting on that, i was in fact noticing this long before that, read the first post in the thread.

Om
2007-09-26, 02:15 PM
Call me a conspiracy nut, but why do you think young boys are increasingly being diagnosed with ADHD and are prescribed ritalin, zanax, etc? Authority figures want an unquestioning mass to do what they want and not question them. You're a conspiracy nut. The government, any government, is not trying to corrupt your precious bodily fluids using prescription medicine.


political correctness is set up to control thought and speech.The purpose for political correctness is actually to avoid offending people. I'm sure that this forum's software automatically censors out many words/names/insults that were once commonly used to describe certain religions/minorities. Its a matter of good manners.


We have caught 2 seperate groups of al queda crossing the southern border into america but have yet to do anything to close the border to illegals.And where does immigration come into your theory that the US government is controlling its population via drugs and PC?

Jade_Tarem
2007-09-26, 02:28 PM
You're a conspiracy nut. The government, any government, is not trying to corrupt your precious bodily fluids using prescription medicine.

I dunno. If I have to listen to the Levitra commercial theme song one more time...:smallfurious:


The purpose for political correctness is actually to avoid offending people. I'm sure that this forum's software automatically censors out many words/names/insults that were once commonly used to describe certain religions/minorities. Its a matter of good manners.

Yes. Absolutely. However, like everything else it can be carried too far.


And where does immigration come into your theory that the US government is controlling its population via drugs and PC?

Immigration is a hallucination. Mexican people are completely ficticious. Duh.:smallamused:

zeratul
2007-09-26, 02:38 PM
"how are you supposed to protest an abusive authority when an authority figure has told you not to?"-steven colbert

i am not quoting the exact statement that inspired that one, because its not so eloquently phrased and just reading it would cause you to become stupider.

You are aware that stephen colbert said that in character, as a satirist. God, learn your context!

tannish2
2007-09-26, 02:39 PM
You're a conspiracy nut. The government, any government, is not trying to corrupt your precious bodily fluids using prescription medicine.

The purpose for political correctness is actually to avoid offending people. I'm sure that this forum's software automatically censors out many words/names/insults that were once commonly used to describe certain religions/minorities. Its a matter of good manners.

And where does immigration come into your theory that the US government is controlling its population via drugs and PC?

OH! i can answer these
they are different conspiracy theories, im sure at least a few of them are true

RANT ALERT

political correctness is retarded, theres a politically corrrect term for fascist now(but im still going to use "fascist peice of crap" if i feel the need). and i wont do it. i do not believe in censorship, which this is, we cant use ****ING COLORS ANYMORE! ITS A DESCRIPTIVE WORD! but because its about skin, its bad, and its some hypocritical BS, ok, so asian gets NINE SUB-CATEGORIES on politically correct ethnicity things on tests ect.(including "other" because, honestly, you just dont matter as much as the other 8 subcategories.) but black latin, native american or inuit (they are differnt, but they share a category, because, apparently, they suck) and white each get ONE category? 3 and a half continents get 4 categories one gets nine, THAT is racism. sorry, but it is. and some arent even on there, you can deal with logic and reason or you can go to extremes and do all or nothing, and if all involves me saying 8 syllables where one would do im going for just logic. it works, unless your retarded. even the name is saying something about it, in politics there very rarely is just one correct course of action. political correctness says that there is one correct description for a person. there is one correct course of action. there is ONE correct way to think. and that is doing exactly what we tell you. it encourages lack of thought, discouraging discrimination through discrimination, and im sorry, but that seems a bit ****ed up to me. anyway. not saying anymore because i dont want to hear any stupid ****ing arguments defending it, theres a difference between racism and not being politically correct. if your going to argue it please, PLEASE, include some logic.

Vaynor
2007-09-26, 02:41 PM
As a student at the university in question...

He was not tasered for asking a question!

*ahem* I'm sick and tired of people saying it's a free speech issue. IT ISN'T! He rushed into the forum (from outside), grabbed the mic from another student (who was supposed to be the last question), and demanded to talk. Kerry told the police, who'd followed him in, to allow it...after the other student had a turn. His microphone was cut off after both going over the alloted time limit (for ALL students), and for using profanity. Kerry still attempted to answer his questions. The police were told, by ACCENT (the group who brought Kerry on campus) to escort him out. They were not trying to arrest him, until he began flailing around and yelling, putting both officers and students in danger. You can't tell what sort of training a person has in this day (I know some martial arts training makes it so a persons hands are classified as a deadly weapon). He was only tasered after they were unable to cuff his left hand, and was still struggling.

Also, this kid has a record of causing disturbances.

Please get all the facts, not just a 30 second video only showing the tasering itself. :smallsmile:

Cheers,
Syka

I don't think it is a free speech issue. However, they had no right to arrest him. He said in the tape he would walk away after asking his question. Also, tasers are classified as "less-lethal" than firearms, and are used to reduce death. He was unarmed, and, even if he was resisting arrest he believed it unlawful. I believe if you are being unlawfully arrested you can go much farther than this guy (don't get mad if I'm wrong I don't really know, this is just what I've heard). He was getting mad because they would not even tell him why he was being arrested, just dragged him off. At that point he deserved to be arrested for public disturbance, but its debatable if the disturbance was rational or not. Tasers, however, should not have been employed. As I said he was unarmed, and I believe he ceased to become an issue (maybe except for his yelling) when the five cops were holding him down.

SurlySeraph
2007-09-26, 02:52 PM
1. Authority is to obeyed and respected.
2. The exception is when the authority in question is either incorrect, grossly unreasonable, or contradicting the will of a higher authority.
3. Kids have always been this stupid. It's just that stupid kids are more visible now, because a) Modern communication technology makes it easier to highlight the really stupid ones, b) Pop culture encourages ignorance and simplicity, and c) Like most nerds, you are probably more intelligent than average, and therefore consider everyone around you stupid. Baseline intelligence hasn't gone down, it's just that stupid kids are easier to notice than normal ones, and normal ones sometimes act stupid. Besides, it's easier to notice when kids are being stupid than when they're being intelligent.
4. No one's forcing you to use politically correct language. I say "black," not "African-American." The black kids I know don't care.

Also, @landadmiral: more kids are being diagnosed with ADHD because now it's considered a formal condition, not just a personality type. Also, there's a greater impetus to diagnose kids who are anywhere on the spectrum towards having a certain mental disorder.

Winterwind
2007-09-26, 02:55 PM
if your going to argue it please, PLEASE, include some logic.I'd love to, and I would, but that would most definitely be against the forum rules. So I'll just limit myself to saying that, while you do have a lot of valid points in your rant, you are oversimplifying matters and, while naming a whole bunch of instances of (arguably) unnecessary censorship, you overlook the instances where it is actually advisable and useful.

Om
2007-09-26, 03:15 PM
Immigration is a hallucination. Mexican people are completely ficticious. Duh.:smallamused:Hmmm... isn't Roswell in New Mexico?


RANT ALERTWell I'm certainly glad that I don't know your friends.


2. The exception is when the authority in question is either incorrect, grossly unreasonable, or contradicting the will of a higher authority.Ah but that is the question. When is an authority source wrong and who are you to question whether it is wrong? Its a fundamental conflict between your first and second points. This is why I'm broadly sympathetic to tannish's primary charge of students swallowing everything that they are told.

A "question everything" attitude nicely sidesteps this problem by testing every order from above for rationality. Of course, as is apparent from this thread, some people with this attitude sidestep themselves right into the potholes of conspiracy theories.

tannish2
2007-09-26, 04:13 PM
hey, occasionally they are true, and by nature they ALL seem flimsy, because the conspirators havent been cought yet. so one side is likely smarter than the other.



and on the political correctness thing: well thats what logic is for. if you would like to make a point my MSN messenger adress is on my profile.

13_CBS
2007-09-26, 05:29 PM
Whoo! Let's make fun of all the "dumb" people just because we think we're "smarter" than they are!

Wait...

:smallannoyed:

orcmonk89
2007-09-26, 05:43 PM
Well, I can only speak for me and nearly all my classmates, but he we go:

Basically, our school has not taken in 2 extra years (meaning we now deal with 11-18 year olds), and us Sixth Formers are just discusted. We see kids from the lower school smoking in plain sight, starting fights, and generally showing absolutely no respect. When we were their age, we wouldn't even look at an older kid, but now we get regularly insulted and challenged to fights. Luckily, we do have the authorities on our side, and often the second they try anything, they have to deal with most of the upper school and half the teachers. But, it doesn't stop us being physically repulsed by some of the little brats.

Anyway, rant over!

Lemur
2007-09-26, 06:02 PM
Well, I can only speak for me and nearly all my classmates, but he we go:

Basically, our school has not taken in 2 extra years (meaning we now deal with 11-18 year olds), and us Sixth Formers are just discusted. We see kids from the lower school smoking in plain sight, starting fights, and generally showing absolutely no respect. When we were their age, we wouldn't even look at an older kid, but now we get regularly insulted and challenged to fights. Luckily, we do have the authorities on our side, and often the second they try anything, they have to deal with most of the upper school and half the teachers. But, it doesn't stop us being physically repulsed by some of the little brats.

Anyway, rant over!

Are all the kids guilty of such offenses, or is it just a minority of the new kids, that just stand out because they get in your face? I imagine that most kids stay out of your way, and you just don't notice them exactly because they don't get your face.

Also, "nearly all of your classmates" is not "all of your classmates". Just because you didn't step on your seniors' toes back then doesn't mean that none of your peers did. I'm willing to bet that a similar amount of people in your class existed, or would have existed if they were in the situation these new kids are in.

tannish2
2007-09-26, 06:13 PM
respect based purely on age is stupid. thats not what im talking about, not paying attention to the rules and questioning the rules are not the same thing.

A Rainy Knight
2007-09-26, 06:32 PM
I know what you're talking about. I'm not exactly proud of a lot of people in my age group either. (Think high school.) My main problem with a lot of them is that they simply have no respect for anyone who has rightful authority. I believe that questioning authority is right and necessary, but blatantly disregarding what they say just strikes me as being dense. :smallannoyed:

landadmiral
2007-09-26, 07:12 PM
Om, you and I could spend all day going in circles about this.


The purpose for political correctness is actually to avoid offending people. I'm sure that this forum's software automatically censors out many words/names/insults that were once commonly used to describe certain religions/minorities. Its a matter of good manners.

No where in the Constitution will you find the Right to not be offended. Again, PC is for speech and thought control. Our founding fathers intended that we be free to say and think whatever we desire. They also intended for us to govern ourselves, use good manners, and be respectful. But apparently we are no longer able to self govern and now have a unwritten PC code. The pendulum has swung so far to the other side that any opposition to authority is considered disrespectful, obscene, or offensive.


And where does immigration come into your theory that the US government is controlling its population via drugs and PC?

If you read what I said in its entirety and in context you'd understand.
Anyone questioning ILLEGAL immigration is labeled a racist - a PC tool used to shut down any opposition to authority turning towards tyranny.

But, Om, I suppose you are happy to just accept whatever authority tells you, regardless of the source.


This is why I'm broadly sympathetic to tannish's primary charge of students swallowing everything that they are told.

A "question everything" attitude nicely sidesteps this problem by testing every order from above for rationality.

We all test what we are told to some degree. How many here were told that the stove is hot and we have to touch it and get burned first? Authority has it's place to teach, instruct, lead, etc. But how often does Authority abuse power? How often do they account for thier actions? Or do we just accept the status quo?

But what do I know? I'm just a conspiracty nut. There's nothing wrong with students staying quite when they are up against rude "peers". Nothing wrong with *cough* undocumented workers. Nothing wrong with the tazer episode. I could go on with other examples not previously mentioned.

Crow
2007-09-26, 08:59 PM
respect based purely on age is stupid. thats not what im talking about, not paying attention to the rules and questioning the rules are not the same thing.

I've heard a thousand just like you. You don't understand that some of us old guys have been around the block a few times, and maybe know a few things you don't, and have experienced a few things you havn't.

Age alone shouldn't garner respect, you are right. But you should respect the life experience that age brings with it.

There is a time and place to question the rules. More often than not, if you're not in a position to change the rules, you'll just give yourself un-needed grief trying to "fix" them. A lot of people are going to think they're smarter than you in this life. You will get further by humoring that assumption than you will by questioning it and sometimes defying it at every turn. You don't have to accept it, just deal with it.

Serpentine
2007-09-26, 10:10 PM
Ah but that is the question. When is an authority source wrong and who are you to question whether it is wrong?
In a democratic society, those in authority are representatives of the people. they should constantly be questioned and scrutinised to ensure that they continue to serve the needs of said people, and not their own or that of an ideal or group. If they fail this scrutinisation, they should be voted out (should be :smallsigh:)
In a non-democratic society, such as a monarchy, it's more or less the same thing, except the removal of the authority figure generally gets more messy.
I'm of the general opinion that authority figures should be respected as much as any other human being, until they prove themselves worthy of more. That is a rather loose guide, but basically I'll show them just as much respect as they show me.

>starts counting down to thread lockage<

SurlySeraph
2007-09-26, 10:21 PM
Ah but that is the question. When is an authority source wrong and who are you to question whether it is wrong? Its a fundamental conflict between your first and second points.

Absolutely! It's entirely subjective, and depends on who the authority is, who you are, and what you believe in. It's fine for everyone to have different thresholds for disobedience, as long as they generally follow authority.


Well, I can only speak for me and nearly all my classmates, but he we go:

Basically, our school has not taken in 2 extra years (meaning we now deal with 11-18 year olds), and us Sixth Formers are just discusted. We see kids from the lower school smoking in plain sight, starting fights, and generally showing absolutely no respect. When we were their age, we wouldn't even look at an older kid, but now we get regularly insulted and challenged to fights. Luckily, we do have the authorities on our side, and often the second they try anything, they have to deal with most of the upper school and half the teachers. But, it doesn't stop us being physically repulsed by some of the little brats.

Anyway, rant over!

Sounds like the 11th graders at my school. Of course, it's not because they're younger than us 12th graders, it's because they're a defective grade. The school let too many spoiled rich kids in that year, and most of them couldn't spell "morality," much less practice it. Of course, we've got a few kids like that in my grade, too. [/rant]


respect based purely on age is stupid. thats not what im talking about, not paying attention to the rules and questioning the rules are not the same thing.

This is the difference between intelligence and wisdom. You may be able to do long division in your head, but you may not know when to argue and when to leave someone who you disagree with alone. Adults may not have as much academic knowledge as all of us, but virtually all of them have a more thorough understanding of life skills in general. There's a reason maturity is valued.


No where in the Constitution will you find the Right to not be offended. Again, PC is for speech and thought control. Our founding fathers intended that we be free to say and think whatever we desire. They also intended for us to govern ourselves, use good manners, and be respectful. But apparently we are no longer able to self govern and now have a unwritten PC code. The pendulum has swung so far to the other side that any opposition to authority is considered disrespectful, obscene, or offensive.

Calling you offensive is in and of itself an act of free speech. Free speech can be in favor of authority, too.



If you read what I said in its entirety and in context you'd understand.
Anyone questioning ILLEGAL immigration is labeled a racist - a PC tool used to shut down any opposition to authority turning towards tyranny.

Uh, remember the border fence project? The AUTHORITIES are trying to stop illegal immigration. Surely you don't think the government is calling itself racist.


We all test what we are told to some degree. How many here were told that the stove is hot and we have to touch it and get burned first? Authority has it's place to teach, instruct, lead, etc. But how often does Authority abuse power? How often do they account for thier actions? Or do we just accept the status quo?

In a democracy, if enough people think they authorities are abusing power, they can vote them out. If most of the people don't think the authorities are abusing power, then there's no problem.


But what do I know? I'm just a conspiracty nut. There's nothing wrong with students staying quite when they are up against rude "peers". Nothing wrong with *cough* undocumented workers. Nothing wrong with the tazer episode. I could go on with other examples not previously mentioned.

No one called you ignorant.

Now, please, this has already gone closer to political discussion than I'm comfortable with. I don't want to argue.

Om
2007-09-27, 06:48 AM
No where in the Constitution will you find the Right to not be offended. Again, PC is for speech and thought control. Our founding fathers intended that we be free to say and think whatever we desire.Which is the problem in these sorts of debates - this is not a matter of free speech. There is no law, at least not where I live, that prevents me from being as viciously uncouth as I like. Rather PC is a matter of manners. Just because I can call up my mother and subject her to a barrage of insults does not mean that I should. PC is simply society's way of saying certain terms are deemed to be too rude or unacceptable.

If you don't agree with the majority consensus then feel free to insult the next woman, ethnic minority member, or physically/mentally challenged person that you meet. Just don't expect the approval of the rest of society.


But apparently we are no longer able to self govern and now have a unwritten PC code. The pendulum has swung so far to the other side that any opposition to authority is considered disrespectful, obscene, or offensive.PC is not, and never has been, a matter of kowtowing to authority. Indeed it is still very much acceptable to belittle or mock authority figures such as police or, especially, politicians. No one is going to accuse me with political incorrectness if I verbally insult a judge or public figure. I'm liable to leave myself open to charges of slander and crassness but PC does not factor into it.

Rather the opposite is the case - worries over PC originated, and are still concerned with, the weaker elements of society. That is those communities that are not as influential and thus have had to endure streams of abuse for decades. Crude racial, or similar, stereotypes are no longer considered to be acceptable. Not because the law says so but, I repeat, because it is considered rude. To illustrate - blackface is not illegal but is considered so racist as to be taboo in most Western nations. Thankfully.

Frankly there is always going to be a social code by which society regulates its members. PC is only a matter of this changing to purge old offensive habits. If you really don't want to live with this unwritten code then my only advice is to consider becoming a hermit.


If you read what I said in its entirety and in context you'd understand.
Anyone questioning ILLEGAL immigration is labeled a racist - a PC tool used to shut down any opposition to authority turning towards tyranny.Edited: Too close to politics. See post above.


But, Om, I suppose you are happy to just accept whatever authority tells you, regardless of the source.Quite the opposite. I question, and criticise, everything and have a deep rooted distrust and contempt for politicians. The difference is that I do not look for conspiracies in either prescription medicine or elites plotting to abusing the language in order to control the masses. Nor am I particularly eager to abuse the right to free speech in order to insult or denigrate others.

Roland St. Jude
2007-09-27, 10:08 AM
Sheriff of Moddingham: You've done an admirable job dancing around a plainly political topic, but it really can't continue. It's just politics, which we don't discuss here. (Although maybe The Politics of Dancing? Hmmmm. I suppose that'd belong in Media Discussions, though.)