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Maat Mons
2019-02-14, 01:43 AM
Like ToB butů

Tome of Battle created martial classes that have an appealing parity with magic-users. Quite a few people have suggested revisions to the game where every martial class follows the ToB model.

I'm not the first person to suggest this, but taking that idea a step further, a single, unified system could be designed that covers both ToB-style maneuvers, as well as the actual magic. I bring this up because it provides the impetus for the next bit.


Like Psionics butů

Let's say we revised the game such that literally every class progresses our hybrid spell/maneuver system. I'm just going to call this a "casting" system from now on, even though some of the effects are extraordinary.

So how should these classes interact with each other when multiclassing? I've got an idea for that, and I want people to tell me if I'm crazy. Let's put aside the particulars of how this new system would work, and pretend it's identical to the psionics system.

So in our doubly-hypothetical scenario, the only classes that exist are psionic classes. Every single one gives you a manifester level equal to your class level. Since they're all going to do that, we could simplify things by just having a global rule that says "You have a manifester level equal to your character level." For single-classed characters, it would always work out the same.

Would this be broken for multi-classed characters? Your manifester level for every psionic class you have would be equal to your character level, regardless of how many levels you have in that particular class. So a psion 1 / psychic warrior 19 might only know 1st-level powers from the psion list, but he can augment those powers up to 20 power points. And vice versa for the psion 19 / psychic warrior 1.

Would this unbalance the system in any way? Bearing in mind, in our double-hypothetical, everyone is taking psionic classes exclusively, because that's all there are.

Supposing that's fine, how about if power points were also tied to character level, regardless of class?

noob
2019-02-14, 02:40 AM
Would the level of the powers be capped by your total level instead of being capped by the classes?
You mentioned the level 1 psion knowing only level 1 powers but many casters can add known powers and gain known powers automatically when they access a new level.
If that is the case and that you make power points based on level then basically a wizard fine with 2 spells per level could instead take collegiate wizard and take only the odd levels into wizard and the even levels in whichever class it wants.
Even worse a level 1 cleric or druid could take all the classes it wants after their single level in cleric or druid.
On the other hand just having all the castings be based on normal psionics would not be too problematic.

Maat Mons
2019-02-14, 02:55 AM
Would the level of the powers be capped by your total level instead of being capped by the classes?

I was thinking max power/spell/maneuver level would still be on a per-class basis.

So a cleric 5 / wizard 15 would only be able to learn 3rd-level cleric spells and 8th-level wizard spells, even though his caster level is bumped up to 20 for both classes.

And, importantly, this hypothetical system would take after psionics, in the sense that a low-level power manifested by a high-level character would be designed to be competitive with a high-level power. Otherwise it would never make sense for a high-level character to consider dipping to get low level powers.

Son of A Lich!
2019-02-14, 03:02 AM
*Dons sunglasses and dramatically turns to you*

What if I told you, there was a D20 system that lets Martials, Psionics, Mages, and Clerics all operate on the same level, with at will abilities and versatility so vast, you could literally make any character from fiction with relative ease and balancing them together is a matter of simple arithmetic?

A system, not unlike 3.5, where villains can go toe to toe with a full party of players and still threaten victory, resurrection is rarely if ever a problem, and the players are more concerned with the story then leveling up?

Take the Homebrew pill, and believe whatever you want to believe - You'll wake up tomorrow with plans and ideas all of your own to balance the system how ever you see fit...

Or you can take the Green Ronin Pill (https://greenroninstore.com/collections/mutants-masterminds/products/mutants-masterminds-deluxe-heros-handbook), and see just how deep the rabbit hill goes...

The choice is yours...

noob
2019-02-14, 03:04 AM
*Dons sunglasses and dramatically turns to you*

What if I told you, there was a D20 system that lets Martials, Psionics, Mages, and Clerics all operate on the same level, with at will abilities and versatility so vast, you could literally make any character from fiction with relative ease and balancing them together is a matter of simple arithmetic?

A system, not unlike 3.5, where villains can go toe to toe with a full party of players and still threaten victory, resurrection is rarely if ever a problem, and the players are more concerned with the story then leveling up?

Take the Homebrew pill, and believe whatever you want to believe - You'll wake up tomorrow with plans and ideas all of your own to balance the system how ever you see fit...

Or you can take the Green Ronin Pill (https://greenroninstore.com/collections/mutants-masterminds/products/mutants-masterminds-deluxe-heros-handbook), and see just how deep the rabbit hill goes...

The choice is yours...
Wait are you talking about mutants and masterminds?
You should mention the adaptation of 3.5 in mutants and masterminds by Grod too.

Maat Mons
2019-02-14, 04:16 AM
Or you can take the Green Ronin Pill (https://greenroninstore.com/collections/mutants-masterminds/products/mutants-masterminds-deluxe-heros-handbook), and see just how deep the rabbit hill goes...

I already own that book, actually. And I do love me my class-less systems. But I still kind of want to take a stab at fixing multiclassing.