PDA

View Full Version : Beguiler Help



Generic PC
2007-09-28, 12:35 AM
Gaming board people, i beseech you, help me again. originally, you helped me with TOB. now, i ask if thou would help me with my Beguiler. currently, we are second level, i have conceal spellcasting skill trick... We can use Completes, Core, phb II cept rebuild. Any ideas? i want to have Master of Masks, but i dont know if that is feasible (8 ranks in a cross class)

Reel On, Love
2007-09-28, 02:59 AM
Okay, the first thing you need to understand, here, is that taking Master of Masks is like hitting yourself in the groin with a hammer. A BIG hammer.

The "flavor!" excuse doesn't fly here, either, unless you really specifically want the flavor of "a guy who gets special abilities by putting on some magical masks" ... which is lame, and besides, if you REALLY want that, just use Chameleon and roleplay the masks.

Beguiler 20 and Beguiler 19/Mindbender 1 are both perfectly solid for their entire careers.

Since you're 2nd level, you've already picked your first-level feat (feats, if you're human). Otherwise, good choices would've been, say, Fey Heritage, Fey Skin, and then Fey Power at third level, getting you DR 2/cold iron and then 3/ cold iron and +1 on Enchantment DCs. As is, just take Spell Focus: Illusion, Spell Focus: Enchantment, and the Greater Spell Focuses.

Conceal Spellcasting is a great skill trick. Pick up False Theurgy next, and eventually Swift Concentration.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-28, 03:52 AM
I wouldn't take the Faerie feats myself, because there's easier ways of upping your enchantment DCs, but that's a matter of taste.

Good beguiler feats include Unsettling Enchantment, Arcane Disciple, Improved Initiative, Face Changer, Arcane Disciple, and some metamagic feats. You could do things with bluff and cloaked casting instead, but that ability isn't really all that effective.

Good items include a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, and the Veil of Allure from sandstorm.

Good presclasses include the Fatespinner, Unseen Seer, Mindbender, Nightmare Spinner, and possibly Rainbow Servant.

HTH!

Rachel Lorelei
2007-09-28, 04:20 AM
I wouldn't take the Faerie feats myself, because there's easier ways of upping your enchantment DCs, but that's a matter of taste.
Sure, there are. But ROL's way, you cover something you were going to do anyway (get an Enchantment DC boost) and get DR/cold iron on top of that, which can be a lifesaver in the early levels and handy later on. I've done this with a couple of beguilers, and the DR really was a lifesaver occasionally.


Good beguiler feats include Unsettling Enchantment, Arcane Disciple, Improved Initiative, Face Changer, Arcane Disciple, and some metamagic feats.
Unsettling Enchantment is very good, especially if you take Distract Assailant (CAdv? SpC, too, I think) for your first Advanced Learning.
Arcane Disciple requires too much WIS investment to be really worth it unless you rolled several good scores and can afford to spare one.
Face Changer is a waste of time, given that you can cast Disguise Self spontaneously, buy a Hat of Disguise... or just be a Changeling.
Most metamagic isn't that useful. Heighten should be picked up eventually, and maybe Twin or Rapid Metamagic + Quicken. Extend is useful, but covering it with lesser rods and such is fine.


You could do things with bluff and cloaked casting instead, but that ability isn't really all that effective.
Cloaked casting is effective; it's just that there are better ways of getting the bonus than sinking feats into feinting (which requires you to be in melee range).


Good items include a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, and the Veil of Allure from sandstorm.

Good presclasses include the Fatespinner, Unseen Seer, Mindbender, Nightmare Spinner, and possibly Rainbow Servant.

HTH!
Right on the items. Eternal Wands (MIC) are also your friend.

Fatespinner, Nightmare Spinner, and Rainbow Servant are bad PrCs because they don't let you keep your skills up; the beguiler fills the skillmonkey role, and losing your skills more or less kills it.
Mindbender is great as a 1-level dip (which, incidentally, delays your second Advanced Learning so you can snag a 4th-level spell with it; take Shadow Conjuration), but terrible for more than that.
Unseen Seer gives you skills, but isn't really worth it; you have no sneak attack to advance (and no good way to use it anyway), the skill list is different, and it has prerequisites you might not otherwise take. Its abilities are OK, but not really better than the Beguiler's.

Overlard
2007-09-28, 05:01 AM
Shadowcraft Mage is pretty much the ultimate Beguiler PrC, but that requires you to be a gnome (or having an understanding DM), plus you need to be able to use Races Of Stone.

Mindbender is a good PrC to dip into for a single level, but you'll probably regret it at level 20, when the pure beguiler is able to completely bypass SR if he catches the opponent flat-footed (which given your spells and abilities, shouldn't be hard to achieve).

Kurald Galain
2007-09-28, 05:49 AM
Arcane Disciple requires too much WIS investment to be really worth it unless you rolled several good scores and can afford to spare one.
Well, you do have listen/sense/spot as class skills, so a wis boost doesn't hurt. And upping your will save isn't bad either, even if it's already strong. AD is pretty much the only way to increase your spell list, and you can get some awesome spells that way.



Fatespinner, Nightmare Spinner, and Rainbow Servant are bad PrCs because they don't let you keep your skills up; the beguiler fills the skillmonkey role, and losing your skills more or less kills it.
Depends on your role. If you're more the caster type (beguiler pretty much upstages the sorcerer, imho) they are more useful. Fatespinner's saving throw mods can be killers, and Rainbow Servant gives you wings plus the entire priest spell list, how is that not cool?

Of course, a beguiler doesn't particularly need presclasses, B/20 is a solid build.

Generic PC
2007-09-28, 08:33 AM
so... where is Rainbow servant. Also, i am True Neutral, so if any of this needs alignment stuff, keep that in mind. i am a gnome, but Races of is not availible at this time, though my DM may open it later. as said gnome, i get a +1 to Illusion normally, and i already have Spell Focus Enchantment. So, master of masks isnt great. ill keep that in mind, especially seeing as to how i wasnt really set anyway..