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MonkeySage
2019-03-15, 08:39 AM
A friend of mine and I were talking about one of my characters who has a smoking habit, and I mentioned that he keeps a pipe on hand for this purpose. He's a halfling cleric of Desna, and carries a mace.

My friend showed me a few images of tomahawks with hollow shafts and pipes on the axe head.

I was wondering if this could work with a mace- whether or not it would be unwieldly, and how I could make it work. The easiest option would be to just have the pipe concealed in the handle, but that's also kind of a boring choice.

The mace is sized for a halfling, if that helps! :)

Willie the Duck
2019-03-15, 08:47 AM
I wonder if those tomahawks were ceremonial weapons. A hollow handle is a structural issue. If realism is a concern, you might want to put it to the Real World Arms & Armor thread.

Outside of pure realism, but more of a verisimilitude level, smoking a pipe with a hefty mace head on the end of it does not sound fun (nor very Halfling-ish). Is there some kind of advantage to having their pipe be part of their weapon?

Hackulator
2019-03-15, 08:50 AM
I wonder if those tomahawks were ceremonial weapons. A hollow handle is a structural issue. If realism is a concern, you might want to put it to the Real World Arms & Armor thread.

Outside of pure realism, but more of a verisimilitude level, smoking a pipe with a hefty mace head on the end of it does not sound fun (nor very Halfling-ish). Is there some kind of advantage to having their pipe be part of their weapon?

Actually, a hollow pipe is stronger than a solid rod of the same mass.

MonkeySage
2019-03-15, 08:59 AM
No particular advantage, I suppose. His weapon is almost entirely for defense, so he's not unarmed if he's attacked.

Willie the Duck
2019-03-15, 09:06 AM
Actually, a hollow pipe is stronger than a solid rod of the same mass.

Thank you high school science.:smalltongue:

Seriously, that is going to depend entirely upon the situation and the manufacture. There are very few IRL examples of real weapons with hollow handles, despite this theoretical truth. Which, again, is why I suggest posting to the thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571567-Got-a-Real-World-Weapon-Armor-or-Tactics-Question-Mk-XXVII)for that specific purpose.

Hackulator
2019-03-15, 09:15 AM
Thank you high school science.:smalltongue:

Seriously, that is going to depend entirely upon the situation and the manufacture. There are very few IRL examples of real weapons with hollow handles, despite this theoretical truth. Which, again, is why I suggest posting to the thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571567-Got-a-Real-World-Weapon-Armor-or-Tactics-Question-Mk-XXVII)for that specific purpose.

That's because making a pipe is more difficult and generally there is no real advantage....unless you wanna smoke some of that sweet halfling leaf out of your mace.

Mark Hall
2019-03-15, 09:55 AM
I don't see any reason why it would not work. My main concern, personally, would be the weight of the head. My assumption would be that the mouthpiece would be at the handle, and the vent would be in the head, so I can imagine that holding a couple pounds of metal for the length of a smoke would get tiring.

Jophiel
2019-03-15, 09:58 AM
Actually, a hollow pipe is stronger than a solid rod of the same mass.
Sure, but if you core out a mace haft then it's no longer the same mass. How strong is a hollow pipe with 50% of the mass of a solid rod of equal dimensions?

Willie the Duck
2019-03-15, 10:04 AM
That's because making a pipe is more difficult and generally there is no real advantage....unless you wanna smoke some of that sweet halfling leaf out of your mace.

Difficulty is certainly the primary issue. And regardless of any issues with the mace's functionality, it certainly makes for a less-optimal smoking pipe. I smoked a pipe right up until the first time my dentist said, "huh, that's funny," while looking over my gums/palette (turned out to be nothing, but enough of a scare to make me quit). Even the big Meerschaums and the like make the experience significantly more cumbersome.


Sure, but if you core out a mace haft then it's no longer the same mass. How strong is a hollow pipe with 50% of the mass of a solid rod of equal dimensions?

I agree with you, but I think the challenges in manufacturing* structurally sound hollow versus structurally sound solid, using whatever technology we imagine for our D&D world (itself an open question) will dwarf any such pure-theory considerations.
*I guess at this point I should clarify that I'm imagining a metal-handled mace. Wood is easier to hollow-out, but then we need to go on another tangent about which types of wood are good to make hollow rods with vs which one would make good mace handles.

Mark Hall
2019-03-15, 10:27 AM
Difficulty is certainly the primary issue. And regardless of any issues with the mace's functionality, it certainly makes for a less-optimal smoking pipe. I smoked a pipe right up until the first time my dentist said, "huh, that's funny," while looking over my gums/palette (turned out to be nothing, but enough of a scare to make me quit). Even the big Meerschaums and the like make the experience significantly more cumbersome.



I agree with you, but I think the challenges in manufacturing* structurally sound hollow versus structurally sound solid, using whatever technology we imagine for our D&D world (itself an open question) will dwarf any such pure-theory considerations.
*I guess at this point I should clarify that I'm imagining a metal-handled mace. Wood is easier to hollow-out, but then we need to go on another tangent about which types of wood are good to make hollow rods with vs which one would make good mace handles.

Of course, since this *is* D&D, there may also be other explanations... I could see a priesthood making pipe-maces as semi-sacred objects, using magic to birdbone a metal or wooden handle in a way that technology would find difficult.

Willie the Duck
2019-03-15, 10:36 AM
Of course, since this *is* D&D, there may also be other explanations... I could see a priesthood making pipe-maces as semi-sacred objects, using magic to birdbone a metal or wooden handle in a way that technology would find difficult.

Oh, for sure. I thought declaring the tech situation an open question was my plausible deniability escape clause (:smalltongue:) -- all of this is predicated on a realism we cannot expect from a world with crystal blades and magical glass that is harder than steel and fire breathing flying lizards which break the squared-cube law. But again, I couched all of my points in my first post with the qualifier "If realism is a concern."

MonkeySage
2019-03-15, 10:49 AM
Actually he did get it from a church reliquary! :smallsmile:

Anymage
2019-03-15, 11:01 AM
If you want him to always have a backup weapon that nobody would recognize as a weapon, I could see a particularly large and sturdy pipe that would double as a club. Any materials science problems are minor compared to the things that D&D regularly overlooks.

As far as a mace, though, I'll repeat what Willie said about the heavy head on the end being annoying for smoking. Also, even ignoring what combat stresses would do to it, having to clean blood/grime/whatever monster bits off of an item you want to use for leisure if you ever get into combat - and D&D characters can expect combat as a regular occurrence - sounds annoying.

Depending on your faith, having a pipe inside your holy symbol might be more on brand.

Hackulator
2019-03-15, 11:14 AM
If you want him to always have a backup weapon that nobody would recognize as a weapon, I could see a particularly large and sturdy pipe that would double as a club. Any materials science problems are minor compared to the things that D&D regularly overlooks.

As far as a mace, though, I'll repeat what Willie said about the heavy head on the end being annoying for smoking. Also, even ignoring what combat stresses would do to it, having to clean blood/grime/whatever monster bits off of an item you want to use for leisure if you ever get into combat - and D&D characters can expect combat as a regular occurrence - sounds annoying.

Depending on your faith, having a pipe inside your holy symbol might be more on brand.

Well, you could design it to smoke out of the end with the mace head.

All you need to clean it is prestidigitation! Also the blood adds flavor, or something.

Also 100% agree that the structural issue, while entertaining to discuss, is outside the bounds of what is actually taken into account in D&D.

Slipperychicken
2019-03-16, 01:10 PM
As long as your character doesn't mind hefting a 3-4lb pipe up to his mouth every time he wants a smoke from it, sure I'd allow it.

Your halfling is not holding that thing in his teeth, that's for sure.

lightningcat
2019-03-16, 02:00 PM
I thought that there was something about Eliminster of Forgotten Realms fame having his pipe work as a mace. But I couldn't find a reference to it in any of my books. But I know I have seen this idea before.

MonkeySage
2019-03-16, 02:28 PM
It'd be about 2 lbs for a halfling but yeah that's still pretty heavy. XD He might go for an actual purpose-made pipe.

Xuc Xac
2019-03-16, 03:58 PM
Apparently the Playground is full of straightedge gamer nerds. You need some stoner gamers to show you the finer points of bong construction.

Hackulator
2019-03-16, 04:24 PM
Apparently the Playground is full of straightedge gamer nerds. You need some stoner gamers to show you the finer points of bong construction.

A bong is not a pipe. It would probably be easier to smoke out of a mace bong than a mace pipe.

Knaight
2019-03-16, 04:28 PM
Actually, a hollow pipe is stronger than a solid rod of the same mass.

When the diameter is tightly constrained by ergonomics this no longer applies.

JAL_1138
2019-03-16, 05:51 PM
Historical maces sometimes had hollow metal hafts.

https://books.google.com/books?id=zLRCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=mace+with+hollow+haft&source=bl&ots=9fA4MyqI4h&sig=ACfU3U2yC9EPAoiZ4SxXbhl2UTok7DCesw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirzazC34fhAhUk0oMKHWmJBCIQ6AEwGnoECAkQA Q#v=onepage&q=mace%20with%20hollow%20haft&f=false

napoleon_in_rag
2019-03-16, 06:37 PM
As a DM, I would say no to a mace with a pipe. I would say yes to a pipe with a 3 foot steel stem and a heavy steel bowl with spikes that did 1d6 blugeoning damage.

Vizzerdrix
2019-03-16, 07:20 PM
Hmm... I`ve seen something like this. I`ll book dive for a bit and post anything I can find that feels similar.


Okay. So we have some hollow weapons. Steel flute from pg 136- Secrets of Sarlonia. Alchemy blade. Aspergelium (regular and light). The spikard weapons.

That should be enough examples to cover the hollow or not question.

As for making a pipe, if the bowl is on the underside of the head, you could rest it on the ground or table when sitting, or prop it on a knee to assist with the heft of it.

Jay R
2019-03-17, 06:43 PM
Originally, "burying the hatchet" meant actually burying it in the ground. It eventually became a symbol that combined smoking the peace pipe rather than using a weapon, as shown in this drawing by Ernest Thompson Seton:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Hatchet_bury._Light_the_Pipe.jpg

I don't know if the combined tomahawk/pipe was ever a real hatchet, rather than a symbolic one. While a metal tube might be stronger than a metal shaft (in ideal conditions), Iroquois tomahawks had wood hafts, and a hollow one would certainly be weaker. On the other hand, it's a very small diameter hole, so most of the wood is still there.

If I had a D&D character who wanted to do it, I'd insist on masterwork construction and then allow it.

georgie_leech
2019-03-17, 10:01 PM
You might make it a tightly-fit Screw top for ease of use. Commission a Tinker Gnome to build the thing, they'll probably get a kick out of the challenge.:smallbiggrin:

D+1
2019-03-17, 11:03 PM
https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo/2019/03/peace-pipe-tomahawk-given-to-chief-by-george-washington-returns-to-seneca-land.html

Kitten Champion
2019-03-17, 11:36 PM
In the manga/anime Hunter X Hunter, one of the characters wields an oversized tobacco pipe as his only armament.

http://animeperson.com/images/screen/71269e17be.jpg

In addition to being a blunt melee weapon, its main use is to make Gandalf-esque smoke creations that can confuse and attack. Which I think would be fun flavour for any kind of summoning magic, illusion, or gaseous attack.

MonkeySage
2019-03-18, 11:39 AM
Apparently there's even a special kind of tobacco I can make- unique to halflings! ^_^ Solidsmoke Pipeweed.

Hackulator
2019-03-18, 02:12 PM
This thread reminds me of the Buzz-bee, a frisbee with a pipe in the middle of it which had a screw cap on it. You would take a hit, screw the cap on and throw it across the field to your friend.

College was a magical time.

CombatBunny
2019-03-25, 12:27 PM
How about a weapon that looks rather like a large music instrument (but it is a pipe)

https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/M8GohvCm6WIISSzkDS6gi6oyPjo=/2958x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc() :format(webp)/bassoon-player-in-orchestra-136591876-583cdead5f9b58d5b1080505.jpg

Tetsubo 57
2019-03-30, 06:43 AM
If someone asked for a mace that conceraled a usable smoking pipe I'd be 100% OK with that. Just jack up the base mace cost by 50% and call it a day. Makes total sense to me. Of course I make actual maces out of pipes. :)

Lemmy
2019-03-30, 08:06 AM
Actually, a hollow pipe is stronger than a solid rod of the same mass.I'm not sure that's true for the kind of stress a mace would generally be subject to.

Beleriphon
2019-03-30, 10:31 AM
Thank you high school science.:smalltongue:

Seriously, that is going to depend entirely upon the situation and the manufacture. There are very few IRL examples of real weapons with hollow handles, despite this theoretical truth. Which, again, is why I suggest posting to the thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571567-Got-a-Real-World-Weapon-Armor-or-Tactics-Question-Mk-XXVII)for that specific purpose.

You find it with modern weapons more often. An axe for example with a composite haft, or modern tomahawks. A length of forged steel pipe in theory will be both stronger and lighter than a wood haft.

I know there's issue with it, but Forged in Fire is pretty good for actually showing how to make weapons from all kinds of crazy things, steel pipe hafts included.

Bohandas
2019-04-01, 11:54 PM
A friend of mine and I were talking about one of my characters who has a smoking habit, and I mentioned that he keeps a pipe on hand for this purpose. He's a halfling cleric of Desna, and carries a mace.

My friend showed me a few images of tomahawks with hollow shafts and pipes on the axe head.

I was wondering if this could work with a mace- whether or not it would be unwieldly, and how I could make it work. The easiest option would be to just have the pipe concealed in the handle, but that's also kind of a boring choice.

The mace is sized for a halfling, if that helps! :)

Does it uave to be a regular pipe? Because a mace is just about the right shape for a water pipe. A hollow head could be the bulb, a hollow handle is the tube and mouthpiece, and a hollow spike on the head with a hole in the end could detach and then reattach backwards to become the bowl and downstem