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eversilentone
2019-03-16, 10:52 AM
Hi folks,

First time posting in this part of the forum. I'd love some feedback about this.

Concept & Premise

I prefer spontaneous and CHA-based arcane casters to prepared and INT casters.
I love summoners, however they are often very weak at lower levels and at higher levels are seriously powerful (although I don't make claims they're OP at the higher levels).
Summoning at full round casting time sucks, but is only easy to work around with prepared casters (primarily through Rapid Summoning).
I wanted to make a summon-focused, spontaneous, CHA-based caster that was stronger at lower levels than usual, and yet relied on their summons for almost everything.
Malconvokers are my favourite prestige class ever thematically - tricking super powerful creatures into compliance is the sort of high risk, high reward strategy I absolutely associate with a CHA-based character.


With all that in mind, I've tried to make a balanced character that's playable at all levels, but I've never built a base class before (well, or PrC either, but I imagine they're potentially a lot easier). I'm going to be playing this in an upcoming game and will be playtesting it without PrCs, but in a party with T2-3 characters, so I'm confident I'll be able to pull my weight.

Design Choices

The base class is a mix of Dread Necromancer and Malconvoker.
Spell mechanic is CHA-based, spontaneous arcane but from a full but very limited list.
Spell list (below) is SRD only and draws exclusively (barring cantrips where I've padded out the list) from Conjuration, Enchantment, Abjuration, Divination and general spells. All spells are from the Sorcerer/Wizard list apart from Glibness at level 3 which is just too thematically on point to miss.
The primary focus in summoning but there's a strong "talk them into compliance" theme, backed up by controlling Abjuration, creature-focused Divination and a teleportation subtheme (going to or getting away from those to be called/summoned).
There are 9 spells per level - thematically there are the 9 Hells of Baator, but really I wanted a pretty limited list as summons themselves give a lot of versatility.
There is no direct damage - all damage comes from summons.
There is almost no defense - the base class is very vulnerable and depends on summons and charm/domination for survival.
Skill list is from Malconvoker but I added Sense Motive as it feels like a glaring ommission for any deception-based class not to have it. My forthcoming DM asked for 6+INT skill points/level although my instinct is 2+INT/level. However, the character *is* skill dependent - you'd probably always want Bluff, Sense Motive and Knowledge: Planes as a minimum, so I could see an argument for 4+INT/level.
Rapid Summoning is essential - it is a straight rip from the UA Conjurer feature and it's really powerful, but I can't see a focused summoner getting by without it.
Deceptive Summons starting early is because at level 2 that (hopefully) turns summons into 4 rounds/level spells, which is still short but means you won't feel like you're burning through spells without impact - low level summons are pretty weak so being able to have one or two up at a time is important.
Fiendish Legion - this is where the mini-horde theme kicks in. It's a super strong mechanic but at this early level it really just starts to push the summons a little; they're still summoning 2 Fiendish Rats, which isn't trivial, but gives that Fiendish Legion feel. However, to future-proof this a little I tied the spells it can affect to those from the base class slots, capped at base class levels - I don't want it to be a three level dip instead of the current 5 levels (and losing a caster level) that Malconvoker currently is.
I made a new class feature called Provoke Fiendish Fury. It's essentially Arcane Strike (feat from Complete Warrior) that instead affects your summons. It can affect numerous summons/called monsters which is a huge impact for even a 1st level spell slot. However, the number of fiends affected is again tied to base class levels to mitigate the worst abuses and likewise although it's stronger than Arcane Strike, it's also entirely dependent on the summons; this does literally nothing without them. There's scope for having a Fiendish Legion of Fiendish Rats that start churning out damage - that image made me chuckle! - but realistically it's just a way of using spell slots and doing damage if you've got utility summons. I can see an argument for requiring this to use a Standard Action as I think then it actually involves the base class character - it's a little passive, but I was mindful the character will have already spent turns summoning - definitely looking for feedback here.
I added a very light (weak, really) capstone to Deceptive Summons to give a little mitigation against bad luck. On the one hand it's pretty weak, especially at the level you get it. On the other, failing at later levels has a much more serious consequence, so I thought it rounded things out.


I'm not great at formatting tables on here, so I'll post the link to a PDF here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fGe4Xc1_sszKx4IbETK2N2XEV0K6SKcJ/view?usp=sharing). However, hopefully the below is ok!

Malconvoker Base Class
Hit Dice: D6
Alignment: Any non-evil
Skill Points: 6+INT
Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Disguise, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft



CR
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Class Features


1
Malconvoker
+0
+0
+0
+2
Unrestricted Conjuration, Rapid Summoning


2
Malconvoker
+1
+0
+0
+3
Deceptive Summons, Skill Focus (Bluff)


3
Malconvoker
+1
+1
+1
+3
Fiendish Legion


4
Malconvoker
+2
+1
+1
+4




5
Malconvoker
+2
+1
+1
+4
Deceptive Summons (Fury)


6
Malconvoker
+3
+2
+2
+5
Provoke Fiendish Fury


7
Malconvoker
+3
+2
+2
+5




8
Malconvoker
+4
+2
+2
+6
Deceptive Summons (Resistance)


9
Malconvoker
+4
+3
+3
+6




10
Malconvoker
+5
+3
+3
+7




11
Malconvoker
+5
+3
+3
+7




12
Malconvoker
+6
+4
+4
+8
Deceitful Bargaining


13
Malconvoker
+6
+4
+4
+8




14
Malconvoker
+7
+4
+4
+9
Improved Calling


15
Malconvoker
+7
+5
+5
+9




16
Malconvoker
+8
+5
+5
+10
Safe Summoning


17
Malconvoker
+8
+5
+5
+10




18
Malconvoker
+9
+6
+6
+11
Deceptive Summons (Convoluted Lie)


19
Malconvoker
+9
+6
+6
+11




20
Malconvoker
+10
+6
+6
+12






Class Features

Weapon and Armour Proficiency:
Malconvokers are proficient with all simple weapons. Malconvokers are proficient with light armour, but not with shields. The somatic components required for malconvoker spells are simple, so members of this class can cast malconvoker spells while wearing light armour without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. She still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells derived from other classes. In addition, if a malconvoker wears medium or heavy armour, or uses a shield, she incurs the same chance of arcane spell failure as any other arcane caster if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do).

Spells:
A malconvoker casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards), which are drawn from the malconvoker spell list given below. She can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time the way a cleric or wizard must. When a malconvoker gains access to a new level of spells, she automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the malconvoker's spell list. Essentially, her spell list is the same as her spells known list.

To cast a spell, a malconvoker must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell's level (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a malconvoker's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the malconvoker's Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a malconvoker can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table below. In addition, she receives bonus spells for a high Charisma score (see Table 1—1, page 8 of the Player's Handbook).

Unlike a cleric or a wizard, a malconvoker need not prepare his spells in advance. She can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level.

Unrestricted Conjuration:
For the purpose only of casting conjuration spells, you can ignore any restrictions that forbid you from casting spells of certain alignments. In addition, regular use of conjuration spells with the evil descriptor does not threaten to change your alignment. For example, a good malconvoker could cast summon monster I to summon a fiendish raven (whose alignment gives the spell the evil descriptor). The malconvoker could not cast death knell, though, which has the evil descriptor but is not of the conjuration school.

Rapid Summoning (Ex):
Any time a malconvoker casts a Summon Monster spell, its casting time is 1 standard action rather than 1 full round. (Creatures so summoned can only take a standard action in the round they are summoned.) Malconvokers gain the normal benefits of enhancing a Summon Monster spell with the Quicken Spell feat.

Deceptive Summons (Su):
At 2nd level, you can attempt to trick evil creatures you conjure into serving you for longer than they normally would. When casting a Summon Monster spell to summon an evil-aligned creature, you can attempt a Bluff check as a free action, opposed by the creature’s Sense Motive check. If your check succeeds, the duration of the effect is doubled (as if by the Extend Spell feat), and the summoned creature might be subject to additional effects as described below. If it fails, the duration remains as normal and no additional effects can be applied. If you fail the check by 5 or more, the creature breaks free of your control and is hostile toward you (though it still disappears as normal when the spell’s duration ends). If you use this ability when summoning multiple creatures, you must attempt an opposed skill check separately against each creature you wish to affect.

Beginning at 5th level, you can whip the deceived creatures into an infernal fury. If your Bluff check to extend the duration of summoning succeeds, the creatures get a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls and 2 extra hit points per Hit Die (if you have take the Augment Summoning feat, these bonuses stack).

Beginning at 8th level, you can instill the deceived creatures with exceptional resistance to your enemies’ attempts to control or dismiss them. If your Bluff check to extend the duration of summoning succeeds, the creatures get a +2 bonus on Will saves, and your effective caster level is increased by 2 for the purpose of resisting dispel magic and similar effects against those creatures.

Beginning at 18th level, you can weave a convoluted lie within a lie. If your Bluff check to extend the duration of summoning fails, you can immediately attempt a second Bluff check with a -5 penalty. The result of this second check stands and cannot be rerolled.

Skill Focus (Bluff):
At 3rd level, you gain Skill Focus (Bluff) as a bonus feat. If you already have this feat, you can select any other feat for which you meet the prerequisite.

Fiendish Legion (Ex):
Once you attain 3rd level, whenever you use a Summon Monster spell to summon one or more evil-aligned creatures, you summon one extra creature of the same kind. This applies only to Summon Monster spells cast from your malconvoker spell slots and only affects Summon Monster spells of a spell level equal to half your malconvoker level. For example, at 6th level a malconvoker could apply this to Summon Monster , II or III.

Provoke Fiendish Fury (Ex):
Starting at 6th level, when you activate this ability (a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity), you can channel arcane energy to provoke fury in the fiends under your command. As your magical provocation sears into the fiends under your control, one fiend per two malconvoker levels (maximum of 9 fiends at level 18) can be provoked in this way - all affected fiends must be within 30’ of you. This ability only affects evil-aligned creatures summoned via a Summon Monster spell or called via a Lesser Planar Binding, Planar Binding, Greater Planar Bindings or Gate spell. You must sacrifice one of your spells for the day (of 1st level or higher) to do this, and these provoked fiends gain a bonus on all their attack rolls for 1 round equal to the level of the spell sacrificed, as well as extra damage equal to 1d4 points x the level of the spell sacrificed. The bonus added to these attack rolls cannot be greater than half your malconvoker level.

Deceitful Bargaining (Ex):
Starting at 12th level, you become exceptionally adept at convincing evil creatures you call that your intentions parallel their own. Upon calling an evil outsider using a planar binding spell, you can make a Bluff check opposed by the creature’s Sense Motive skill check. If you succeed on this check, the called creature becomes more amenable to your cause, taking a –5 penalty on the opposed Charisma check made to refuse serving you. If you fail, the creature immediately makes a new Will saving throw against your spell . On a failure, the spell functions as normal. If it succeeds on this save, the creature breaks free of your control and can either flee or attack you.

Improved Calling (Su):
At 14th level, your understanding of the ways of fiends shows you how to tempt even more powerful beings into your service. The normal HD limit for your planar ally and planar binding spells (including lesser and greater versions) increases by 2.

Safe Summoning (Ex):
At 16th level, you can dismiss any evil creature that you have summoned as an immediate action rather than as a standard action.

Spells per Day


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
6
5
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
6
6
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-


9th
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-


10th
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-


11th
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-
-


12th
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-
-


13th
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-
-


14th
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-
-


15th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-
-


16th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3
-


17th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4
-


18th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3


19th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4


20th
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5





Spell List




Spell List


0
Resistance, Acid Splash, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Daze, Ghost Sound, Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation


1st
Protection From X, Shield, Summon Monster I, Unseen Servant, Comprehend Languages, Identify, Charm Person, Hypnotism, Sleep


2nd
Resist Energy, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Summon Swarm, Detect Thoughts, See Invisibility, Daze Monster, Hideous Laughter, Touch Of Idiocy


3rd
Dispel Magic, Magic Circle Against X, Nondetection, Summon Monster III, Glibness, Tongues, Deep Slumber, Hold Person, Suggestion


4th
Dimensional Anchor, Black Tentacles, Dimension Door, Summon Monster IV, Detect Scrying, Locate Creature, Scrying, Charm Monster, Lesser Geas


5th
Dismissal, Lesser Planar Binding, Summon Monster V, Teleport, Contact Other Plane, Telepathic Bond, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Mind Fog


6th
Greater Dispel Magic, Repulsion, Planar Binding, Summon Monster VI, Legend Lore, True Seeing, Geas, Mass Suggestion, Symbol Of Persuasion


7th
Banishment, Plane Shift, Summon Monster VII, Greater Teleport, Vision, Mass Hold Person, Insanity, Sumbol Of Stunning, Limited Wish


8th
Dimensional Lock, Maze, Greater Planar Binding, Summon Monster VIII, Trap The Soul, Discern Location, Binding, Mass Charm Monster, Demand


9th
Imprisonment, Mage's Disjunction, Gate, Summon Monster IX, Teleportation Circle, Foresight, Dominate Monster, Mass Hold Monster, Wish






Edit: typos, table formatting, add spoilers

JoshuaZ
2019-03-16, 12:39 PM
This is interesting. A few thoughts:

The spell list is a bit restrictive. Why not give them some way to add more spells to their spell list like the Dread Necromancer or Beguiler get? Say they can add a spell from the sor/wiz list every 4 levels, and the spell has to be of level strictly lower than the highest level spell they can cast. If you do this, consider then moving Deceptive Summons (Resistant) to level 7, and Safe Summoning to Level 15 so the class features are more spread out.

eversilentone
2019-03-18, 12:21 PM
This is interesting. A few thoughts:

The spell list is a bit restrictive. Why not give them some way to add more spells to their spell list like the Dread Necromancer or Beguiler get? Say they can add a spell from the sor/wiz list every 4 levels, and the spell has to be of level strictly lower than the highest level spell they can cast. If you do this, consider then moving Deceptive Summons (Resistant) to level 7, and Safe Summoning to Level 15 so the class features are more spread out.

Thanks for the feedback! The list definitely is thin. I'm totally open to an Eclectic Learning type of thing, but what spells for a summoner? How about allowing any spells from the Summoning subschool? They won't play nice with the class features but might open up more creatures for utility?

Alternatively, what about a 1/day at 4th with additional 1/day every four levels (8th/12th/16th/20th) feature for survivability? Something like Shield Other autocast on one creature summoned before the end of the next round, but originating from the summon to the caster (i.e. the Malconvoker is the shielded one)? The class is pretty weak but that would be some survivability? To be fair, it could also be an ability that starts at 1st level, then at 4/8/12/16/20 as it's not a huge boost, especially if the duration were to be linked to that of the summon, not the spell - it'll only be really effective once the Malconvoker got access to the Binding line of spells (at which point it would be a pretty big boost given the huge duration of Binding spells).

PairO'Dice Lost
2019-03-19, 04:42 PM
While the concept of a Malconvoker base class is interesting, as presented the class is just the Malconvoker PrC spread out over 20 levels plus two minor class features, and while it's stronger in a few areas than a Wizard 5/Malconvoker PrC 9/Other PrC 6 or Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker PrC 9/Other PrC 5 (more spells per day than the wizard and more known than the sorcerer, better HD and skill points) overall there's little reason to take it over one of those PrC progressions.

For everything up to level 8, the base class gets class features before the PrC build, but several of them aren't as useful at those levels as they might appear:

1) Unrestricted Conjuration is in the original PrC to account for divine casters, and the "repeatedly casting evil spells turns you evil" thing is rarely enforced otherwise; as an arcane caster, the base-class Malconvoker doesn't really benefit from this.

2) At low levels, Deceptive Summons is sort of in a "fighters and critical fumbles" situation where there's basically a 1-in-20 chance of it backfiring. Failing by 5 turns the critter against you, and with creatures on the summon monster I list having +0 to +2 Sense Motive from Wis and the Malconvoker having +11 Bluff on average at 2nd level (5 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 Skill Focus), you're looking at a 5% chance of a summoned creature turning on the Malconvoker on average; it drops to 3% when you get summon monster II, which isn't in "don't roll a natural 1 on your save" territory anymore but is still noticeable.

3) Provoke Fiendish Fury generally isn't worth the slot expenditure compared to the PrC build just blasting something.
If you're sending a swarm of your own mooks against a horde of enemies, a 3rd-level slot can be used to give up to 1d4+2 creatures from the SM1 list +3 to attack and +3d4 damage for all attacks for one round (which works out to at most 18d4 damage, average 45, if you summon the maximum number of creatures and they all hit with their 1 attack each), or to cast a d6-per-level blasting spell like fireball (which works out to 5d6 damage, average 18, per target hit), so if 3 targets fail their saves against your fireball or 6 make their saves, you come out ahead--and that's the best-cast scenario for PFF; use it on 1d3+1 SM2 creatures, or have most of the SM1 miss their attacks, and it's even worse.
If you're having all your summons gang up on one target, a 2nd-level slot works out to at most 12d4 damage, average 30, which compares favorably to a scorching ray's 4d6 damage, average 14, but (A) that assumes all the summons are in position to take advantage of the buff, which isn't guaranteed, and (B) clustering your summons around a single target makes them vulnerable to an enemy fireball, a claw/claw/bite routine from a monster, or similar.

For everything after level 8, the base class gets the feature late compared to a Wizard/Malconvoker. Deceitful Bargaining, Improved Calling, and Safe Summoning come in at ECL 11/13/14 for the wizard and 12/14/16 for the base class. When people rarely play to those levels and leveling slows down even if you do, the difference of a level or two in when you gain something can mean months of real-time play...and of course an extra 2 HD for binding fiends is more useful at some levels than others.

Deceptive Summons (Convoluted Lie), meanwhile, is unlikely to ever matter; the highest Sense Motive mods among the SM9 monsters are the barbed devil's +17, the bebilith's +16, and the night hag's +13, and everything else is in the +0 to +2 range, while the Malconvoker can expect a Bluff of somewhere around +33 (21 ranks, +9 Cha [16 base, +4 level, +6 cloak of charisma, +2 miscellaneous from tome/wishes/racial/etc.], +3 Skill Focus), so he literally can't fail by 5 or more against any of them and he only has a 1% chance to fail at all against the barbed devil.

On top of that, the Malconvoker base class has a full 10 dead levels, while the Beguiler only has 7 and the Dread Necromancer has none...and while the Warmage has 10 as well, the Warmage isn't exactly a target to strive for. A Wizard 5/Malconvoker PrC 9/Other PrC 6 has at most 8 dead levels even if the other PrC gives nothing for 5 out of 6 levels--with a logical capper like Archmage he's looking at 3 dead levels, and starting with Wizard 2/Master Specialist 3 instead of Wizard 5 drops that down to 1. And this Malconvoker lacks a capstone, where the PrC version has Safe Summoning as a sort-of-capstone and both the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer have nice capstones as well; capstones aren't a huge issue since play rarely reaches level 20, but a class giving literally nothing after 18th level except +1 point of BAB and +1 9th-level slot is poor form.

--------------

So, given all of that, what would I suggest to improve it?

1) Move things down. Every class feature should at the very least come no later than a wizard/malconvoker could pick it up. Maybe even earlier and/or out of order; for instance, Safe Summoning is really useful at low levels when "Oh crap, my fiendish raven turned against me!" is a big deal.

2) Beef things up. Provoke Fiendish Fury and Convoluted Lie have excellent flavor, so they should be powered up to the point they're worth keeping around.

3) Class features, class features, class features. Make it more than just a literal translation from PrC to base class. The Shield Self and Eclectic Learning ideas from your last post is a good one, but feel free to expand on existing features (add higher Deceptive Summons DCs to make creatures stick around longer, add more Fiendish-Legion style features to metamagic summons like e.g. maximizing the 1d4+1 or 1d3 for summoning weaker critters or summoning as a swift action a few times per day) or steal ideas from other PrCs (like the Thaumaturgist's contingent summoning or ability to keep one strong minion around indefinitely, or the Master Specialist giving its summons extra HP and making them harder to dispel or banish).


Thanks for the feedback! The list definitely is thin

I would argue that their spell list is too broad and jam-packed at the moment, actually. Malconvokers get a lot of the best core Divinations and Enchantments at all levels, the good personal defensive buffs and utility spells at low levels, the good battlefield control and teleportation spells at mid levels, and more high-level spells than any other full-list caster (they get 9 spells each of 7th-, 8th-, and 9th-level, where a Beguiler and a Warmage each get 8/7/6 and a Dread Necromancer gets 7/4/5).

Sure, other casters get spells outside of "their schools" (Enchantment/Illusion, Necromancy, and Conjuration/Evocation), but always in service of a theme: Beguilers are sneaky and tricky, so they get spider climb and swift etherealness from Transmutation; Dread Necromancers are spooky and evil, so they get darkness and unhallow from Evocation; Warmages are gishy frontliners, so they get whirling blade and Tenser's transformation from Transmutation.

But a Malconvoker has no in-theme justification for getting things like charm person and insanity (they only have command over summoned creatures, and then mostly by trickery, they aren't general mind-benders) or nondetection and symbol of stunning (those wards have nothing to do with binding fiends) or true seeing and scrying (the Malconvoker shouldn't be divining, he's got minions for that!) or teleport and maze (he's all about bringing minions to him, not going elsewhere), and the in-theme justifications for spells like detect poison ("What if my minion tries to poison me?") or repulsion ("What if my bound demon escapes his trap?") or Evard's black tentacles ("But I'm summoning tentacles! Eeeevil tentacles!") are pretty darn slim.

I'd prune the list down to only spells that directly summon or bind creatures, spells that help in the binding process (dimensional anchor and magic circle help, not dominate monster and mind fog help), and spells that aid in a direct negotiation with a bound creature (again, detect thoughts and suggestion help, not contact other plane and wish help), and then add spells back one by one only after careful consideration of how they fit the theme. Remember, "caster who summons fiends" is a much narrower concept than "sneaky puppetmaster caster" or "caster engaged in warfare," and summoned creatures already give a lot of utility both through their SLAs and the ability to have a bunch of minions to order around, so the Malconvoker's spell list shouldn't have anywhere near the breadth of the Beguiler's or Dread Necromancer's.


I'm totally open to an Eclectic Learning type of thing, but what spells for a summoner? How about allowing any spells from the Summoning subschool? They won't play nice with the class features but might open up more creatures for utility?

One way to handle that would be to add a class feature along the lines of "Fiendish Transfiguration: every creature you summon with a Conjuration (Summoning) spell takes on fiendish features (horns, spiked skin, glowing red eyes, and so forth) and the moral component of its alignment changes to Evil if it is not already evil-aligned" at the same level as the first Advanced Learning, or fold them together into a single "Fiendbinder's Lore" class feature. That gives you a mini-nightmare from mount, salamanders covered in hellfire from summon nature's ally IV, a swarm of fallen celestials from armageddon, and so forth, which is very in-theme