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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Houserules Collection: are these a 3 or an 18? Classes w/minor tweaks



lucky9
2019-03-25, 01:33 PM
I will be posting one change, or group of changes, at a time to hopefully allow for a little more discussion/ tweaks/ general thoughts, if you would be so kind:smallsmile:

A note before starting: I am aware that this edition is.. unstable, especially at higher levels. My rules don't necessarily aim to completely eliminate that issue, too large a task. What I'm going for is general playability, a certain feel I have about things, and of course, fun for all players including those running muggles. With that said, do let me know if I've horribly broken anything. Also, feel free to ask for any clarification.

I've decided to group all the classes with minor changes together. Looking foreward to feedback on any and all!

Barbarian
Originally I just took away the illiteracy but saw this recently and liked it better.
Barbarians no longer receive the illiteracy class feature at level 1.

However, they may choose to be illiterate and gain an additional 2 skill points at level 1.

Knowledge (nature) and Sense Motive become class skills for Barbarians.

Cleric
These may have farther reaching consequences than I anticipated. Largely added for flavour. Your thoughts?
Also, I'm wondering if there's a not-overpowered way to give them a capstone ability at level 20?
Clerics may not learn or cast any spells with a descriptor that is opposed to their deity. i.e. good/ evil, law/ chaos, fire/ water, etc., unless their deity has both attributes.

They gain proficiency with their deityís favored weapon.

Knowledge (arcana) is no longer a class skill for Clerics.

Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (nobility and royalty) become class skills.

Druid
It's a couple of style things.
Druids must be True Neutral, failure to act upon this alignment results in them becoming ex-druids.

Druids do not receive scimitar proficiency.

Fighter
Under construction...
They receive 4 +Intelligence modifier skill points each level, not 2.

Listen, Profession (any), and Spot become class skills for Fighters.

Mage (Wizard)
Is this too good? I mean will everyone rush to specialize just for this? Or will there still be generalists?
Mages may learn and cast any spells uniquely available to Bards, within their level restrictions.

Specialist Mages receive Spell Focus in their chosen school as a bonus feat.

Paladin
I want to give them an alternative style similar to the Ranger's combat options for those that don't use or don't have a mount, but I could use some ideas please. As in, a line of bonus feats that make sense for Paladins.
Paladins must worship a personal being (most likely a deity) which is capable of imbuing the Paladin with their divine powers and abilities.

This being must match the Paladin's alignment exactly.

A Paladin is still restricted to the usual alignments.

They gain proficiency with their deityís favored weapon.

They receive as bonus feats: Mounted Combat at level 2, Ride-by-Attack at level 6, and Spirited Charge at level 11.

A Paladinís mount never returns to the Celestial Realm unless it dies; it regains health and vitality by resting or healing effects.

Paladins also receive the fast base Will save progression.

Their remove disease ability is usable a number of times per day, not per week.

They receive 4 +Intelligence modifier skill points each level, not 2.

Gather Information becomes a class skill for Paladins.

Ranger
Rangers may switch between combat styles as they advance through them, but always start at the first feat for that style.

For example: A Ranger selects archery at level 2 and receives the Rapid Shot feat. The Ranger then selects two-weapon combat at level 6 and receives the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. At level 11, the Ranger decides to go back to archery and receives the Manyshot feat.

Balance becomes a class skill for Rangers.

Thief (Rogue)
A simple switch to give them that previoiusly missing capstone.
Thievesí sneak attack progression begins at level 2, not level 1.

Their trap sense progression begins at level 1 and ends at level 20.

They receive 10 +Intelligence modifier skill points each level, not 8.

Commoner
LOL
Commoners receive the illiteracy class feature at level 1.


Links to other rule sections:

General Rules
No xp Loss
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584101-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18

Massive Damage Variants
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584140-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Item-2

Size/ Space Sharing
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584141-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Item-3
Races
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584144-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Races

Classes
Multi-Classing
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584145-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Classes

Bard Overhaul
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584153-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Class-overhaul-Bard

Monk Overhaul
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584154-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Class-overhaul-Monk

Sorcerer Overhaul
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584155-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Class-overhaul-Sorcerer
Skills
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584156-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Skills

Feats
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584160-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Feats

Magic
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584164-Houserules-Collection-are-these-a-3-or-an-18-Magic

nonsi
2019-03-25, 06:03 PM
.
Add Hide, Move Silently, Listen and Spot to the list of Fighter class skills. Stealthy fighters and sentinels are both viable concepts.
Also, give them 4 skill points per level.

Check out Paladin variants (Freedom / Tyranny / Slaughter) from Unearthed Arcana.

I'd give rangers both fighting styles (e.g. Legolas)

cassal
2019-03-26, 01:22 PM
Fighter
A little boost. Is this an alright idea?
Fighters receive a fighter bonus feat every level, not every second.



While I think fighters deserve a boost, I'd say every other level is more appropriate as this virtually eliminates specialization and definitely violates the spirit of "specilization". You could be effectively fully specialized(WF, WS, GWF, GWS) in a given weapon every 4 levels, meaning you could have 5 weapon specializations by the end of the game on fighter feats alone. This is especially broken considering the changes you proposed to these feats. At lvl 20 that is a boost of +20 to hit for 5 weapon types an +17/+13/+9/+5/+1 damage depending on order? add in the fighter's +20/+15/+10/+5 BAB and a modest +5 to hit from STR and your hitting at +45/+40/+35/+30 EVERY round. VERY BROKEN.

lucky9
2019-03-27, 12:03 AM
.
Add Hide, Move Silently, Listen and Spot to the list of Fighter class skills. Stealthy fighters and sentinels are both viable concepts.
Also, give them 4 skill points per level.

While I think fighters deserve a boost, I'd say every other level is more appropriate as this virtually eliminates specialization and definitely violates the spirit of "specilization". You could be effectively fully specialized(WF, WS, GWF, GWS) in a given weapon every 4 levels, meaning you could have 5 weapon specializations by the end of the game on fighter feats alone. This is especially broken considering the changes you proposed to these feats. At lvl 20 that is a boost of +20 to hit for 5 weapon types an +17/+13/+9/+5/+1 damage depending on order? add in the fighter's +20/+15/+10/+5 BAB and a modest +5 to hit from STR and your hitting at +45/+40/+35/+30 EVERY round. VERY BROKEN.

Gotcha, thanks for the running the numbers. Clearly I've taken the wrong approach in regards to their "fix." I'll have to get creative for shoring up their weak areas rather than doubling down on something they're already decent at. I'm also adjusting those feats as per the response in that section.

As to the skill issue, I went and edited in the 4 skill points. It's definitely something I was considering anyway.
Adding the other CCs for different styles of Fighter though I feel I have addressed in the skills section of the rules. Giving all base Fighters those particular skills though seems not quite head cannon (thoughtful shrug)


.
Check out Paladin variants (Freedom / Tyranny / Slaughter) from Unearthed Arcana.
I am aware of them... Do you mean about the deity restriction here? I suppose what I meant to say was that Paladins must have a deity and must match their alignment. I'll think of better wording...


.
I'd give rangers both fighting styles (e.g. Legolas)
I think a Legolas is viable given my elf tweaks without giving away too many goodies to all Rangers. Not disagreeing that melees could use it though.

ngilop
2019-03-27, 10:25 AM
just posting in regards to the fighter. The number of feats the fighter gets is not the issue. it is that the feats are just not over all decent for the most part. Doubly so for mundanes.


The fighter needs spot and listen added to their skills because in fluff in the PhB they are supposed to be guards and such. How can you guard when you cant detect anything?

I don't enjoy what you did with the fighter. The fighter can already get 'bigger number's in combat. and already has enough feats I have said his everytime I see a fighter fix that I didn't care for so I am going to post again



AT the very least. mundanes need the following types of actions

ways to affect all 3 saves
ways to cause different status effects (dazed, stunned, paralyzed, bleed etc)
ways to be able to use all 5 types of actions: full, move, standard, swift, immediate
ways to interact and affect the world outside of combat
ways to make combat more efficient for them than others in the case of fighters
way to do more than just damage HP, give them some kind of ability damage attacks


I did a couple fighter fixes. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?318268-My-Latest-big-project!-(-a-big-deal-fighter-fix)) both in 3.5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?424466-My-Third-Fighter-fix-trying-something-new) and pathfinder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?568764-Pathfinder-Fighter-Re-Tool). Take a look at my designs and the philosophy behind them then try better to make mundanes better, hopefully, by not making them less useful and allowing fantastical heroes to actually BE fantastical.

rferries
2019-03-30, 04:35 PM
I like virtually all of these.

Re: the ranger - I would simply give them bonus fighter feats at the indicated levels, limited to a list of archery and TWF feats.

lucky9
2019-04-01, 11:33 PM
Mmkay, consider me convinced on listen and spot. Adding them in.
I'm also removing the feats every level, I see the flaws in that path.

To be honest, this discussion really got me thinking hard about what exactly is in the base Fighter class? What are they supposed to be in the game?

In the end, whatever your opinions are of those particular classes, the other fighter "archetypes" are covered elsewhere. There's Swashbucklers, Knights, Pugilists (flavored Monk), Archers (flavored Ranger, Scout, or Thief), Marshals, etc. Whether those classes are effective or not is a different discussion, the main point is they exist.
So love the concept or hate it, what the base DnD fighter is left with is being the dude on the cover of Complete Warrior. Heavy armor, big weapon, will travel.
Yes, they could be made into something more, and yes those other classes aren't perfect, but this is what I've come to realize was intended for base Fighter.
Of course there's absolutely nothing wrong with, and nothing stopping anyone from, making an agile Fighter, or ranged focused Fighter, or any of these.

Now, all this said and with a clearer direction in mind, I was quite inspired by ngilop's Fighter Fixes for 3.5:smallbiggrin: Thank you for your work there and the link!
In particular, I agree that they probably should get Uncanny Dodge, and Improved. But this made me wonder if I should add it for the Monks as well, thoughts?
I also liked the Combat Maneuvers, and Warlord features! With permission, I'd like to add them?
Battle Surge, and Armor Mastery are great for my image of Fighters as well, but I wonder if the former should have limited daily uses so as not to render other melees obsolete (as I nearly did already), and the latter to have a more gradual progression and exception for swim checks?
Lastly, Weapon Mastery gave me a different direction for the Weapon Focus feat path. Again, with permission, I think it'd be a great way to "fix" those feats?

On the subject of making Fighters able to be agile, how would you see it going over to give player's the option of whether Fort or Ref gets fast progression for their Fighter?
What about not giving them Heavy Armor, Tower, or Shield Proficiency but instead making all three of those Fighter bonus feats and giving three additional Fighter bonus feats at first level, for a total of four?

***

I like virtually all of these.

Re: the ranger - I would simply give them bonus fighter feats at the indicated levels, limited to a list of archery and TWF feats.
Hmm, not a bad way actually, it will take me a little bit to figure out every feat that should make the cut. Thanks for the idea!

***
I've made a couple more edits to others as well: A question about Clerics, and the aforementioned rewording of the Paladin deity restriction. As always, the help is appreciated!:smallsmile: