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View Full Version : Hacking PbtA, trying to polish basic attacks



Chimera245
2019-04-01, 04:27 PM
The Genre: Old-school/mid-school console JRPGs. Think SNES and Playstation era Final Fantasy titles.

I'm using Dungeon World as a base, but I want your choice of weapon to matter more. In DW, your base damage is determined by your class's "damage die", and weapons are little more than a list of tags that apply to your physical attacks. I want a system where your type of weapon means more, both mechanically, and narratively.

Right now, I have two basic moves. "Attack (with proficient weapon)" and "Attack (with non-proficient weapon)". (better names pending)

My vision goes like this: you attack with a proficient weapon, and your result gets you a number of choices from a list. And each weapon has a different list. 10+, choos 2; 7-9, choos 1; and 6-, miss, and the DM does a DM move, as usual.

The list for every weapon type will include dealing damage to the enemy, but different weapons will have other options beyond that.

Attacking with fists might have the option to stun your enemy, or attacking with a spear might have the option to do a leg-sweep and knock your enemy down, or attacking with a bow might have the option to pin someone's clothing to the wall, for example.

Each weapon should have the basic damage, some other thematically appropriate tactical options, some special options only for a 10+ like dealing extra damage, and some "pick me or bad stuff will happen" options like "avoid the enemy's counterattack".

The non-proficient attack move is: 10+, choose 1 7-9 option; 7-9, deal damage and DM makes a move; 6-, some weapon-appropriate fumble, and the DM makes a move.

I really need help fleshing out all the different weapons' lists of options.

I'm sure there will be some overlap, like either a spear or a whip could be used to trip someone, but I'm coming up empty actually filling out the lists.

I want this all to support a few key ideas I want my game to have.
-Weapons are cool and do fun things. I want finding a new weapon as loot to be interesting. In too many games, looted weapons mean "a way to get cash from a blacksmith/merchant". I want players to seriously consider adding things they find to their arsenal.
-Weapons are an important, impactful decision. I want players to consider what weapons will be best suited to their foes. When a skeleton shows up, I want the fighter to put away his spear and draw a club. I want players to have a reason to gain new weapon proficiencies as they advance.

Man_Over_Game
2019-04-01, 05:25 PM
Ambitious goal! But it does sound pretty cool.

I have a few recommendations:

Keep things streamlined. That is, don't rely heavily on a lot of lookups. Try to create a list of regular maneuvers with your weapons that everyone can get accustomed to so that your players can quickly go through their combos. You don't want a list of 20 unique effects that the players have to look up or get wrong every time they attack. Make like 10 that are adaptable and create different circumstances when combined together. For Example, maybe Prone makes the target easier to hit, and Haymaker is a easy to dodge attack that deals massive damage.

On that note, use Keywords. Have weapons with various different Keywords (like having a Spear with Pointed, Long, Two Handed), and Skeletons just happen to cause -1 roll to Pointed weapons. Or maybe the Flaming Elemental deals damage to you if you are attacking with a Short weapon (like a Mace).

Combined, this allows you to make items on the fly. A Glaive could be a Slashing, Extra-Long, Two-Handed, Finesse Weapon, each trait with their own benefits and penalties (Slashing is good for unarmed enemies, Extra Long is good for attacking hard-to-reach enemies, Two-handed has some benefits against being disarmed or dealing more damage, Finesse means you're better at hitting hard-to-hit enemies than heavily armored ones). Combat maneuvers could be things like a cavalry charge, a trip attack, a whirlwind attack, or an unarmed strike attack.

Chimera245
2019-04-02, 10:35 AM
I definitely intend to add tags and damage types to all weapon types, but I want the meat of what makes them "feel" different to be their option lists.

I imagine each weapon type will have around 5 options, and there will be some duplicate choices among them.

As far as remembering which weapons have what choices, I actually intended for your current weapon's list to be written directly on the character sheet. Or possibly even on note cards, so that you could swap them out when you swap weapons without having to rewrite anything.

This way, the lists could be altered be character advancement, (like gaining a move that says "12+, choose 3, and add 'decapitate the enemy' to your list with swords'") or for specific unique weapons, (like some kind of antimagic dagger that adds "end an active spell effect on your target" to the dagger list)

A longsword might be a 1d8 slashing melee weapon. Swords are commonly seen as versatile weapons. So it's list might go something like this:
(Asterisks available on a 10+)
- deal 1d8 slashing damage
- *deal another 1d8 slashing damage
- *avoid the enemy's attack
- deal 1d6 piercing damage with a thrust
- use the flat of the blade for 1d6 bludgeoning damage
- knock a small item out of the enemy's hands

Man_Over_Game
2019-04-02, 01:12 PM
I definitely intend to add tags and damage types to all weapon types, but I want the meat of what makes them "feel" different to be their option lists.

I imagine each weapon type will have around 5 options, and there will be some duplicate choices among them.

As far as remembering which weapons have what choices, I actually intended for your current weapon's list to be written directly on the character sheet. Or possibly even on note cards, so that you could swap them out when you swap weapons without having to rewrite anything.

This way, the lists could be altered be character advancement, (like gaining a move that says "12+, choose 3, and add 'decapitate the enemy' to your list with swords'") or for specific unique weapons, (like some kind of antimagic dagger that adds "end an active spell effect on your target" to the dagger list)

A longsword might be a 1d8 slashing melee weapon. Swords are commonly seen as versatile weapons. So it's list might go something like this:
(Asterisks available on a 10+)
- deal 1d8 slashing damage
- *deal another 1d8 slashing damage
- *avoid the enemy's attack
- deal 1d6 piercing damage with a thrust
- use the flat of the blade for 1d6 bludgeoning damage
- knock a small item out of the enemy's hands

I really like the idea of having a card to use, just keep in mind the work that might have to go into that if you want most weapons to be diverse. Maybe have a chassis for a standard weapon time (like a Halberd) on a large notecard, then use stickynotes to write down specific modifiers or abilities for special weapons. For example, if they encounter a bunch of guards all with Halberds, you won't have to write out 15 or so Halberd cards. However, the Captain's Halberd is enchanted with an Magic Breaker rune, as well as having a modified pommel, and the specifics of that are tacked on to his standard Halberd.

Chimera245
2019-04-23, 06:45 PM
So I've worked on this a bit, and have a rough list now. But I need to flesh out some weapon types.

The moves:

Attack (with trained weapon)
10+, choose 2 options from the weapon list
7-9, choose 1 option from the weapon list

Attack (with untrained weapon)
10+, choose 1 option from the weapon's 7-9 list
7-9, randomly select a 7-9 option from the weapon's list
6-, your weapon breaks, malfunctions, or slips from your hand, as appropriate, in addition to whatever move the DM makes.


Weapon lists:
Key:
- available on 7+
* available on 10+
! consequences for not choosing

Unarmed attacks
Unarmed- (Attack) 1d6 Bludgeoning
-Deal damage
-Disarm your target
-Grab your target
-Gain 2 hold. Spend 1 hold to deal damage to someone who attacks you
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Sword
Sword (Attack) 1d6 Slashing
-Deal damage
-Deal 1d4 Bludgeoning damage with the flat of the blade
-Deal 1d4 Piercing damage with a thrust
-Knock a small item out of target's hands
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Greatsword
Greatsword (Attack) 1d8 Slashing
-Deal damage
-Deal 1d6 Bludgeoning damage with the flat of the blade
-Damage an item held or wielded by the target
-Knock the target back a few feet
*Deal damage again
*Deal damage to units adjacent to the target
*!Avoid enemy attack
Dagger
Dagger (Reaction) 1d4 Piercing or Slashing
-Deal Piercing damage
-Deal Slashing damage
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Katana
Katana (Attack) 1d8 Slashing
-Deal damage
-Damage an item held or wielded by the target
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Axe
Axe (Attack) 1d8 Slashing
-Deal damage
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Hammer
Hammer (Attack) 1d8 Bludgeoning
-Deal damage
-Push target back
-Damage an item held/wielded by the target
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Spear
Spear (Attack) 1d6 Piercing
-Deal damage
-Trip the target
-Gain 1 hold. Spend it when an enemy charges at you to damage them and avoid the attack.
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Staff
Staff (Magic) Magic damage dependent on the spell stored within
-Deal damage
-Deal 1d4 Bludgeoning damage
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Bow/Crossbow
Bow/Crossbow (Attack) 1d6 Piercing
-Deal damage
-Pin the target's clothing/fur/etc. to the wall or floor with an arrow
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Gun
Gun (Attack) 1d6 Piercing
-Deal damage
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Whip
Whip (Tactics) 1d4 Slashing
-Deal damage
-Disarm target
-Trip target
-Grab target
*!Avoid enemy attack
Musical Instrument
Instrument (Spirit) 1d4 Magic damage
-Deal damage to all nearby targets
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Quarterstaff
Quarterstaff (Attack) 1d6 Bludgeoning
-Deal damage
-Trip target
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Scythe
Scythe (Attack) 1d6 Slashing
-Deal damage
-Trip target
-Pull target a few feet closer
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Machine
Machine (Tactics) Varies by machine
-Deal damage by machine type (Slashing for a chainsaw, fire for a flamethrower, etc.)
-Inflict a status by machine type (Stun for a taser, Blind for a flash grenade, etc.)
*Deal damage again
*!Avoid enemy attack
Shield
Shield (Tactics) Bludgeoning
-Deal damage with a shield bash
-!Avoid enemy attack
-Push target back
*Deal damage again


Then there are combination weapons. They need two different proficiencies to use, and grant access to both lists combined when used.
Examples:
Halberd (Spear + Axe)
Glaive (Spear + Sword)
Kusari-gama (Whip + Scythe)
Double-bladed sword (Sword + Quarterstaff)

Not sure how I'll handle dual-wielding yet...

Thoughts? Suggestions? Halp?