(Race) Cambion

[Cynthaer]

So, after it came up in another thread, I was inspired to try my hand at a quick homebrew Cambion race:


Cambion Traits

Ability Score Increase. Your Strength score increases by 1, and your Charisma score increases by 2.

Age. Cambions mature at the same rate as humans, but live much longer.

Alignment. Cambions are quite literally born to be evil, and inherit a tendency toward law or chaos from their fiendish parent. Some, however, fight against this destiny and forge their own path.

Size. Medium.

Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Darkvision. Thanks to your fiendish heritage, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Fiendish Blessing. While you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.

Winged. You have bat-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet while you aren't wearing medium or heavy armor.

Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and either Infernal or Abyssal.



+2 Cha, +1 Str
30 ft walk, 30 ft fly (no medium/heavy armor)
If unarmored, AC = 10 + Cha + Dex
Common + Infernal/Abyssal



New feat:

Cambion Magic
Prerequisite: Cambion

You have inherited the innate spellcasting ability of your fiendish progenitor.

You learn the Fire Bolt cantrip.
You can cast each of the following spells once with this ability: Charm Person, Alter Self, and Command. You regain the ability to cast these spells when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells, and you cast them at their lowest possible levels.



If it's not obvious, I basically started with a Winged Feral Tiefling, changed the ability scores, and replaced fire resistance with a Charisma-based version of Unarmored Defense. The feat is basically a variation on Svirfneblin Magic.

My current concerns:

Winged Tieflings are already a bit OP, but tolerably so. Is this too far?
This seems like it would be a bit too good with Hexblade Warlocks, granting them flight and letting them be even more SAD by using Cha for defense.
None of the features allow heavy armor, yet I'm giving +1 Strength. The MM Cambion is pictured in scale mail, even! Can I possibly allow heavy armor and flight without completely exploding the power budget?
I used the monk's "no shields allowed" version of Unarmored Defense as a template for Fiendish Blessing. That reins in Hexblades, but it probably needlessly punishes Valor Bards. Thoughts?


To be clear, I know that level 1 flight does wonky things to game balance all by itself. I'm trying to balance this purely in the context of a game where things like Aarakocra and Winged Tieflings are already allowed.

Any feedback is appreciated!

[Blueturtle79]

So, after it came up in another thread, I was inspired to try my hand at a quick homebrew Cambion race:
New feat:
Cambion Magic
Prerequisite: Cambion
You have inherited the innate spellcasting ability of your fiendish progenitor.

You learn the Fire Bolt cantrip.
You can cast each of the following spells once with this ability: Charm Person, Alter Self, and Command. You regain the ability to cast these spells when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells, and you cast them at their lowest possible levels.

My current concerns:

Winged Tieflings are already a bit OP, but tolerably so. Is this too far?
This seems like it would be a bit too good with Hexblade Warlocks, granting them flight and letting them be even more SAD by using Cha for defense.
None of the features allow heavy armor, yet I'm giving +1 Strength. The MM Cambion is pictured in scale mail, even! Can I possibly allow heavy armor and flight without completely exploding the power budget?


To be clear, I know that level 1 flight does wonky things to game balance all by itself.

Any feedback is appreciated!
A quick google search reveals it as already cannon: (Put h t t p s and w w w before those.I'm new here so i can't post links)
slushlush.com/2014/09/989/
dandwiki.com/wiki/Cambion_(5e_Race)
dndbeyond.com/races/2398-cambion
Co-op with those sites.

Link to the thread of occurrence please?
I need some background as to why you are modifying a race in existence?...Which it isn't exactly a race. It would be a subrace, a specific tribe of winged Tieflings gone pure evil and then back again to neutral or good.
If you are clear on Level 1 Flight being OP, then why did you include it?
I'd suggest wings of hellfire that would grow with each level, slowly giving more ability to fly.The bat wings are not enough as they are "spawned" through ancestral connection, whatever that means. In reality, wings need to be at least the size and height of the standing creature in order to fly. A Cambion is depicted as having wings of half their body,too small for flight. Using fire to fly bends the pressure (as on an airplane), allowing flight easier.So as the fire burns hotter on those bat wings, longer flight times are available, as well as giving more lift to those with heavy armor.
Hellfire wings would explain the fire cantrips/spells.

[MagneticKitty]

So, after it came up in another thread, I was inspired to try my hand at a quick homebrew Cambion race:


Cambion Traits

Ability Score Increase. Your Strength score increases by 1, and your Charisma score increases by 2.

Age. Cambions mature at the same rate as humans, but live much longer.

Alignment. Cambions are quite literally born to be evil, and inherit a tendency toward law or chaos from their fiendish parent. Some, however, fight against this destiny and forge their own path.

Size. Medium.

Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Darkvision. Thanks to your fiendish heritage, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Fiendish Blessing. While you are wearing no armor and not wielding a shield, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.

Winged. You have bat-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet while you aren't wearing medium or heavy armor.

Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and either Infernal or Abyssal.



+2 Cha, +1 Str
30 ft walk, 30 ft fly (no medium/heavy armor)
If unarmored, AC = 10 + Cha + Dex
Common + Infernal/Abyssal



New feat:

Cambion Magic
Prerequisite: Cambion

You have inherited the innate spellcasting ability of your fiendish progenitor.

You learn the Fire Bolt cantrip.
You can cast each of the following spells once with this ability: Charm Person, Alter Self, and Command. You regain the ability to cast these spells when you finish a long rest. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells, and you cast them at their lowest possible levels.



If it's not obvious, I basically started with a Winged Feral Tiefling, changed the ability scores, and replaced fire resistance with a Charisma-based version of Unarmored Defense. The feat is basically a variation on Svirfneblin Magic.

My current concerns:

Winged Tieflings are already a bit OP, but tolerably so. Is this too far?
This seems like it would be a bit too good with Hexblade Warlocks, granting them flight and letting them be even more SAD by using Cha for defense.
None of the features allow heavy armor, yet I'm giving +1 Strength. The MM Cambion is pictured in scale mail, even! Can I possibly allow heavy armor and flight without completely exploding the power budget?
I used the monk's "no shields allowed" version of Unarmored Defense as a template for Fiendish Blessing. That reins in Hexblades, but it probably needlessly punishes Valor Bards. Thoughts?


To be clear, I know that level 1 flight does wonky things to game balance all by itself. I'm trying to balance this purely in the context of a game where things like Aarakocra and Winged Tieflings are already allowed.

Any feedback is appreciated!

This is basically tiefling? More powerful than comparable playable races of feral winged tiefling and winged elves.

I don't think it's ok to give them a full dual stat a.c. calc like you get from class investment. If you did so i'd say use "bad" stats like int + str or str + cha... then it wouldn't make sense flavor wise. I'd gauge it off of lizardfolk's ac ability. Or maybe word it as:
You may substitute charisma in place of dex for calculating a.c. when dex is called for
or something.

But 13+ dex is more balanced

[Blackbando]

Okay, so, I really hate to be the guy who's just telling people not to do things, but, why not just use tiefling?

Like, even if you want to be specifically half-fiend, which originally tiefling wasn't, XGtE changed that and made it so some tieflings are literally just half-fiend. Cambion has basically no reason for being a player race.

[Cynthaer]

A quick google search reveals it as already cannon: (Put h t t p s and w w w before those.I'm new here so i can't post links)
slushlush.com/2014/09/989/
dandwiki.com/wiki/Cambion_(5e_Race)
dndbeyond.com/races/2398-cambion
Co-op with those sites.
FYI, those are actually just other people's existing homebrew.


Okay, so, I really hate to be the guy who's just telling people not to do things, but, why not just use tiefling?

Like, even if you want to be specifically half-fiend, which originally tiefling wasn't, XGtE changed that and made it so some tieflings are literally just half-fiend. Cambion has basically no reason for being a player race.
Oh, don't worry about hurting my feelings. I actually fully agree that there's no real reason to make cambions a player race when tieflings already exist.

The only reason I bothered was because of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?585339-5e-Level-Adjustment-Question), where we were discussion why 5e doesn't use "level adjustment" to implement monster races. One poster proposed the use of homebrewed "monster class levels" as a way to allow overly-powerful monsters as PC races—the difference between this and "level adjustment" being that you handcraft the race and class to fit a PC design, rather than using the monster stat block as-is.

I found the idea intriguing, but when looking at some of the "overly powerful" examples, I felt that they could be handled with a "race + racial feature" design, without resorting to designing X class levels of a "Cambion class".

This is basically just a proof of concept for taking a high-CR monster stat block (in this case, cambion) and designing a PC race that keeps all of the important bits.

If a player of mine wanted to be a cambion, I'd honestly just say "cool, use one of the tiefling stat blocks".


I don't think it's ok to give them a full dual stat a.c. calc like you get from class investment. If you did so i'd say use "bad" stats like int + str or str + cha... then it wouldn't make sense flavor wise. I'd gauge it off of lizardfolk's ac ability. Or maybe word it as:
You may substitute charisma in place of dex for calculating a.c. when dex is called for
or something.

But 13+ dex is more balanced
You're right, it's way too good. The main reason it's there at all is that the Monster Manual cambion straight-up gets +Cha to AC, without restrictions. That's interesting enough that I'd like to keep it in some form, if possible.

How about this:

"When you are hit by an attack, you can use your reaction to add your Charisma modifier to your AC against that attack. When you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest."

It's basically a 1/day Shield spell, but not as good because it only works against one attack.

[Rukelnikov]

The only reason I bothered was because of this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?585339-5e-Level-Adjustment-Question), where we were discussion why 5e doesn't use "level adjustment" to implement monster races. One poster proposed the use of homebrewed "monster class levels" as a way to allow overly-powerful monsters as PC races—the difference between this and "level adjustment" being that you handcraft the race and class to fit a PC design, rather than using the monster stat block as-is.

I found the idea intriguing, but when looking at some of the "overly powerful" examples, I felt that they could be handled with a "race + racial feature" design, without resorting to designing X class levels of a "Cambion class".

Thing is, while stripping it of everything, people see this, and don't think Cambion, they think Tiefling. Cambions are inherently too powerful and with too many powers to be made into a base race, and that's why I suggested the "monster class levels" or LA.

[MagneticKitty]

You're right, it's way too good. The main reason it's there at all is that the Monster Manual cambion straight-up gets +Cha to AC, without restrictions. That's interesting enough that I'd like to keep it in some form, if possible.

How about this:

"When you are hit by an attack, you can use your reaction to add your Charisma modifier to your AC against that attack. When you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest."

It's basically a 1/day Shield spell, but not as good because it only works against one attack.

I think this is ok balance wise, a one use ability

So darkvision
30ft fly
One use cha to a.c. ability

winged tiefling gets
fire res
darkvision
30ft fly

winged elf gets
darkvision
Fey sleep protection and charm resist
trance
30 ft fly

So I think this is on par. Could afford a very small thing like use of a cantrip you think fits perhaps. I don't know what cambions do myself.