Villain as a Hero

[Arameus]

Why yes, this was inspired by that other thread!

Simply, what do you think you favorite evil-doers would be like after a sudden change of heart? A Xykon who founds a nature preserve? An Overmind that uses his innumerable swarm to man, free of charge, the sector's custodial, retail, and fast-food positions? A white-clad Sephiroth who joins the WRO to cleanse the Planet for the benefit of all humanity?

Some of these changes seem more diabolical than the villains themselves! Have fun with it: play around with ridiculous possibilities (Ganon hosting a children's show and wearing sweaters), or put some of your less-favored villains on display in work you think they deserve, such as the aforementioned Overmind's too-cruel fate.

[Krugg]

Well my favourite villain is Alex DeLarge from A Clockwork Orange. And he actually does get a change of heart in the movie... So yeah.. He'd become a softy who feels sick in the stomach at any sign of violent or sexual act or when he hears Mozart

[Serenity]

Jayne: He's got a big family to support, and he's had to do some morally questionable things to do it. He spends a lot of time brooding about it in his bunk, and was very glad to have a Shepherd on board so he can make his confession. Practices nonviolent martial arts that let him knock people out without dealing too much damage, and kept the sonic gun from Ariel for obvious reasons. Speaking of which, the reason he was going to turn River and Simon in was that he thought that they deserved better than being outlaws and pirates, and someone assured him that things could be resolved peacefully and River would get the psychiatric care she needs. When he saw just what it was the Alliance had done to her, he tried to get them out, but the Alliance had surrounded the facility. And of course, he really did drop that cash on the mudders deliberately.

[Da Beast]

Ganon hosting a children's show and wearing sweaters

That is by far the best thing I've heard all day. Thank you you for the image.

[Xuincherguixe]

I think most of the ones that are suitable do end up having changes of heart. The most obvious ones I could think of are Magneto and Dr. Doom.

Still, in my mind a villain is best when they stay a villain. The ones that you can kind of see their point make some of the best ones.

[Arameus]

Well my favourite villain is Alex DeLarge from A Clockwork Orange. And he actually does get a change of heart in the movie... So yeah.. He'd become a softy who feels sick in the stomach at any sign of violent or sexual act or when he hears Mozart

A: He doesn't turn good, he is just repulsed when he desires to do evil; this does not make him good, it merely makes him a tortured puppet. That's the whole point.

B: 'B' is for 'Beethoven.'

[factotum]

The thing is, most really well-sketched villains are probably convinced they're the hero anyway. Look at Redcloak from OotS--he is unquestionably a villain, but by his own logic everything he does is done for the advancement of the goblin people, so in his own mind he's a hero. Of course, this also blinds him to the massive damage he does to his own people while trying to help them.

Xykon, on the other hand, knows he's a villain and is proud of it...

[bosssmiley]

Why yes, this was inspired by that other thread!

Simply, what do you think you favorite evil-doers would be like after a sudden change of heart? A Xykon who founds a nature preserve? An Overmind that uses his innumerable swarm to man, free of charge, the sector's custodial, retail, and fast-food positions? A white-clad Sephiroth who joins the WRO to cleanse the Planet for the benefit of all humanity?

Quick and simple answer: they get suckier (having lost everything villanous that made them cool in the first place) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsCool), then they die (because "redemption = death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.RedemptionEqualsDeath)").

The terrible alternative is Spikeification (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Spikeification), which turns cool and awe-inspiring magnificent bastards (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard) into wovable cuddwy woobies (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie), who suck and need killing.

[thorgrim29]

Damn you, I had an exam to study and I instead passed an hour on that website.

[Sly Reference]

Damn you, I had an exam to study and I instead passed an hour on that website.

Oh, you will spend longer than that on that damn website. I've spent hours every day for weeks since I've found it. Hours that I could be sleeping...

[Indon]

Ganon hosting a children's show and wearing sweaters

I feel that Ganon would make a far better tennis, or perhaps ping-pong player.

Bowser would be pretty impressive as a hero (and who knows, he may well be? We don't know all too well what kind of guy Mario is that the Princess keeps being 'kidnapped' from).

Kefka, master of all magic, possessor of the Light of Judgement... kind and fair ruler... slayer of monsters everywhere... consensus-builder...

[WalkingTarget]

A: He doesn't turn good, he is just repulsed when he desires to do evil; this does not make him good, it merely makes him a tortured puppet. That's the whole point.

Of course, in the book there's one more chapter after where the movie cuts off (not the movie's fault, the American edition of the book left this last chapter out, which rather changes the point of the book in my opinion).

After he's "fixed" and has gotten over the conditioning, he goes back to his old habits. After a while he realizes that it's starting to bore him. He then runs into one of his old droogs who has become respectable and Alex sees that might be what he wants too.

[....]

Kain from the original Blood Omen.

Eventually he does become a 'good guy', but he never has some moment of regret where he forsakes all he'd don to the world. He just makes sure he can suvive while trying to fix Nosgoth.

[Xuincherguixe]

Kain from the original Blood Omen.

Eventually he does become a 'good guy', but he never has some moment of regret where he forsakes all he'd don to the world. He just makes sure he can suvive while trying to fix Nosgoth.


Kain is an anti hero. He does act like a total bastard a lot of the time, but at the same time he also tries to fix things. I won't say more so as to avoid spoilers.

[Arameus]

Quick and simple answer: they get suckier (having lost everything villanous that made them cool in the first place) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsCool), then they die (because "redemption = death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.RedemptionEqualsDeath)").

The terrible alternative is Spikeification (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Spikeification), which turns cool and awe-inspiring magnificent bastards (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard) into wovable cuddwy woobies (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWoobie), who suck and need killing.

This would indeed happen if the villain is very poorly-written. If there's nothing making them interesting except bloodshed and power, then they're not very good characters, now are they? After all, who says villains are supposed to be two-dimensional retards who swat and swat at the hero until their throats get cut?

And if that same violence and brutality is somehow interesting enough in itself to somehow make their lack of any other features moot, what does that say about the reader, especially if they notice and still don't care?

On another subject: I realize that many villains see themselves as the 'hero,' but even your example Redcloak knows good and well that he's evil and he enjoys it too. He's just not a senseless nihilist like Xykon. Being twisted and being an actual hero are a bit different.

[SITB]

He's just not a senseless nihilist like Xykon.

Eh? Since when Xykon is a nihilist? He wan's power for power's sake. He isn't a nihilist, he just have a goal that once achieved would leave him with nothing else to do.

On another note, replace Light(Death Note) with Lelouch(Code Geass), I wonder how much different the series would look then?</sarcasm>

[Arameus]

That's nihilism for you, though, isn't it? I'd go as far as to say he is a hedonist, but as far as personal -isms go, that's it.

Here's one: The Eye of Sauron, now using its clairvoyance to find kidnapped and missing children all over the realm; universally praised by do-gooders all over Middle Earth for the countless touching reunions he's incited.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Nihilism is the belief that the world has no inherent worth, and usually motivates villains to destroy the world.

Xykon's more of an egomaniac with a lust for power.