PDA

View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next What Sorcererous Origins Would You Like to See?



KOLE
2019-05-03, 03:21 PM
I think my favorite full caster in D&D 5e is the Sorcerer. I'm quite drawn to them, I enjoy the idea of innate magic and love the mechanics of Metamagic. I enjoy all 5e casters, but with that being said I prefer the idea of stretching and adapting a limited range of spells over having a spell and ritual for every mechanic like a Wizard.

That's purely my opinion, there's no right or wrong or "Better".

I enjoy homebrewing Subclasses, I'm currently working on about 6 new Sorcerer subclasses to be released in a dedicated Sorcerer homebrew thread at some point in the future. The problem is, they all feel sort of "Samey" right now, and I'd like some more diverse options.

Playground, what sort of Sorcerous origin would you like to see? Fire away with suggestions and I may well work on it. Mostly just looking for inspiration right now.

For the curious, the six I'm working on right now are:

-Phoenix/Fire Elemental Origin
-Frost/Winter Origin
-Stone/Giant Soul Origin (Love the UA; but it needs a lot of balance.)
-Sea/Water Elemental Origin
-Sylvan Soul Origin (Like the Divine soul, but for Fey!)
-Arcane Origin (Intended to fill the role of "Generic Sorcerer" subclass for those wanting a "More of the Same" subclass.)

Ideas I've worked on that haven't really panned out:
-Blood Sorcerer, playing on the tropes of evil blood magic, inspired by Dragon Age.
-Genie Soul. Playing with Wish on Sorcerer ended up being surprisingly dull.
-Elemental Adept: Another answer for a generic sorcerer. Basically allowed to pick either fire, cold, acid, or lightening damage and specialize in it. Heavily based on the Pyromancer chassis. Came out far too bland, boring, and competed with the Draconic bloodline. I opted instead to make four distinct classes for the remaining elements, inspired by their UA versions. Might still include for someone looking for an easy beginner subclass, but it would take some buffing to keep it balanced, plus beginners shouldn't really play Sorcerers anyway IMO.

Fire away with suggestions, even off the wall ones.

DracoDei
2019-05-03, 05:39 PM
I would dearly love to see you turn THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6485821#post6485821)* into a Sorcerer sub-class, although I am drawing a blank on how you would justify it being "in the ancestry"... maybe something to do with Drow?
*Thread was locked BEFORE the table was broken, so it would be hard to re-post with a fixed table.

I'm a bit new to 5e homebrewing, so I can't say much on the details with any certainty.

Ignore the pre-requisites as long as they end up with Invisibility and Find Familiar they should be fine.

Probably grant the ability to keep the familiar invisible without Concentration early on, as well as the free "extend" metamagic on that spell when cast on the familiar.

Load up the spell list with longer-range Evocation probably. Rays too if you can

Rapid Barrage would probably have to be treated very carefully in 5e. Might only show up in the capstone, or be absent entirely? Then again, even in the original, it had a sharply limited number of uses per day ("long rest" in 5e).

Maybe make turning the familiar invisible at-will as part of the capstone? Or, if you want to be more conservative, say they can cast it Cha. Mod. / short rest without using up spell slots.

Actually, if you liked my entry in the contest, how about:

Gets bonuses to buffs.

Can't buff themselves... or at least the bonuses don't apply when they are doing so. Possible exception for stuff that doesn't require concentration, especially Mage Armor... maybe shield too.

Multi-concentration MUST show up in there at some point.

Kane0
2019-05-03, 10:25 PM
Id like to see a spellfire/spellscarred sorcerer, a subclass afflicted with magic rather than blessed.
Signature feature would be along the lines of absorbing spells directed at them or damaging themselves to refuel their magic. Toss in some other bits and pieces to burn your SP on and I think itd really be a hit.

Crisis21
2019-05-04, 12:14 AM
Personally, I'd like to see a sorcerer that inherited their power from a mighty wizard.

Mjolnirbear
2019-05-04, 02:28 PM
Primal Nature.

Where Fey or Sylvan Soul would be tricksy, illusionists, and enchanters, I'd like to see a 'nature red in tooth and claw'.

Some ideas:
* hexlock-like, except not OP.
* animal friendships, or pets, or summoning
* shifter- or lycanthrope-lite, Primal Strikes being the prime cantrip and minor transmutations as subclass abilities
* Fey Hunt of the Wild type

R.Shackleford
2019-05-04, 06:46 PM
I would love to get them away from origins.

Because "my grandma :smallannoyed::smallannoyed::smallfrown::smallfrow n::smallmad::smallmad: a dragon" just doesn't sit right with me.

I would say have the sorcerer be the magical equivalent of the fighter fluff that people typically give them "just that damn good" on their own merits and focus more on metamagics.

So, with that being said, a meta-magic/SP focused sorcerer who doesn't gain more spells, but more access to metamagics and doesn't have any special origin.

KOLE
2019-05-04, 07:42 PM
I would dearly love to see you turn THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6485821#post6485821)* into a Sorcerer sub-class.

This is very interesting. It's VERY niche, but that's not a bad thing. There's good and bad news for converting this to 5e:
-A lot of the buffs you gave to familiars in that version are already a part of familiars in 5e, so it would convert remarkably well.
-Invisible familiars are an established precedent. Pact of the Chain Warlocks get them, and Sorcerers get invisibility anyway.
-This build synergizes well with Distant metamagic.

Like I said, it's niche, but I like the idea of familiar focused on playing with familiars and Distant metamagic. It's enough to build an origin around for sure. Rapid bombardment has to go, however. That's what Twin Metamagic is for. I'll play with this.



Actually, if you liked my entry in the contest, how about:

Gets bonuses to buffs.

Can't buff themselves... or at least the bonuses don't apply when they are doing so. Possible exception for stuff that doesn't require concentration, especially Mage Armor... maybe shield too.

Sounds like ground pretty well covered by Divine Soul origin. I don't want to homebrew anything for a niche already covered.


Multi-concentration MUST show up in there at some point.
This is an absolute no-no in 5e. Nobody, ANYWHERE, gets to cast multiple leveled spells a turn or concentrate on more than one spell. There are only two exceptions to this rule. If a caster picks up Action Surge, they can cast two leveled spells in a turn. And Sorcerers can Twin concentration spell to effect two creatures where it should only effect one, in essence concentrating on two of the same spell on two targets simultaneously.

Concentration is a VERY important mechanic in 5e, and should not be meddled with for the sake of balance.


Id like to see a spellfire/spellscarred sorcerer, a subclass afflicted with magic rather than blessed.
Signature feature would be along the lines of absorbing spells directed at them or damaging themselves to refuel their magic. Toss in some other bits and pieces to burn your SP on and I think itd really be a hit.

This is interesting, and sounds similar to the blood magic origin I worked on. I may dust it off and combine it with this concept.


Personally, I'd like to see a sorcerer that inherited their power from a mighty wizard.



I would say have the sorcerer be the magical equivalent of the fighter fluff that people typically give them "just that damn good" on their own merits and focus more on metamagics.

So, with that being said, a meta-magic/SP focused sorcerer who doesn't gain more spells, but more access to metamagics and doesn't have any special origin.

Both these suggestions line up well with the Arcanist concept I'm working on. Stay tuned.


Primal Nature.

Where Fey or Sylvan Soul would be tricksy, illusionists, and enchanters, I'd like to see a 'nature red in tooth and claw'.

Some ideas:
* hexlock-like, except not OP.
* animal friendships, or pets, or summoning
* shifter- or lycanthrope-lite, Primal Strikes being the prime cantrip and minor transmutations as subclass abilities
* Fey Hunt of the Wild type
This actually gives me several ideas to chew on. Hm. Thank you, I'll take a look at this.

DracoDei
2019-05-04, 08:46 PM
This is very interesting. It's VERY niche, but that's not a bad thing. There's good and bad news for converting this to 5e:
-A lot of the buffs you gave to familiars in that version are already a part of familiars in 5e, so it would convert remarkably well.
-Invisible familiars are an established precedent. Pact of the Chain Warlocks get them, and Sorcerers get invisibility anyway.
-This build synergizes well with Distant metamagic.

Like I said, it's niche, but I like the idea of familiar focused on playing with familiars and Distant metamagic. It's enough to build an origin around for sure. Rapid bombardment has to go, however. That's what Twin Metamagic is for. I'll play with this.
Is Rapid Bombardment needing to go the only bad news?


Sounds like ground pretty well covered by Divine Soul origin. I don't want to homebrew anything for a niche already covered.
Well, I was thinking that it might be nice to see that with a focus on the Arcane buffs (Fly, Haste), but it might be that Divine Soul tends to do those too.


This is an absolute no-no in 5e. Nobody, ANYWHERE, gets to cast multiple leveled spells a turn or concentrate on more than one spell. There are only two exceptions to this rule. If a caster picks up Action Surge, they can cast two leveled spells in a turn. And Sorcerers can Twin concentration spell to effect two creatures where it should only effect one, in essence concentrating on two of the same spell on two targets simultaneously.

Concentration is a VERY important mechanic in 5e, and should not be meddled with for the sake of balance.

Well, I'd say "Challenge Accepted!", but I think I would need more experience under my belt to know if it is really possible, let alone to be up to DOING it.

So... "Challenge Filed for Future Consideration!" (Except my memory might not be up to it... better put it in my extended sig!).

Lord Raziere
2019-05-04, 10:20 PM
I dunno, something like someone being fused with a magical tome of many spells so that they BECOME the spellbook that wizards use, and as a result they just constantly have glowing arcane runes covering their skin like tattoos and at the start they just can't process all the magic in their being yet so as they level up, they understand more because they are adapting to the merge with such knowledge.

or maybe a cyborg sorcerer, who gets their power from an artifact that is inserted into them like a glass eye or a gem-like hand, or a crown of magic somehow fused to their skull, things like that.

or oh, here is an idea: you know the Atronach astrological sign from Elder Scrolls? think of that, but more so. like someone who devours nearby magic to power themselves then fires it back out as a spell, like call it Arcane Devourer, make them able to eat some form of nearby magic to gain a spell use for the day, just some weird thing that changes up the caster playstyle enough to make it unique but not entirely screw over other spellcasters.

related to the Atronach thing, something similar to the Blue Mage from FF where you go around imitating magic that monsters use as spells that are similar to them and have some ability to transform yourself partially into a monster to do some melee combat potential, something like that.

maybe something called Dreamborn that makes the sorcerer literally half illusion, half real. and they exploit this to do stuff straight out of the Sharingan playbook, like Izanagi's avoiding damage by temporarily turning into an illusion to avoid it, appearing wherever as if like teleporting because if your half-illusion then your entirely bound to having a fix location, being able to mold yourself into different forms using that sort of real shadow-stuff. things like that.

Bloodcloud
2019-05-04, 10:47 PM
I have a primal soul sorcerer homebrew in the subclass contest, if youd like to check it out. Based on the geomancer from 3.5

Nightgaun7
2019-05-05, 05:13 AM
Personally, I'd like to see a sorcerer that inherited their power from a mighty wizard.

Lamarckian Magenetics?

Prince Vine
2019-05-05, 07:38 AM
I just finished the playtest version of a full sorcerer rewrite I did (it may be too strong now).

The core concept is that spell lists are super restricted to essences or domains, and you get access to more as you level as well as more spell points and many class abilities using them.

One of the things I did was combine fiend/celestial/fey bloodlines into one subclass since a lot of the big things overlap a lot, with further distinction made by what 'domains' the character picks up (fiends probably grab darkness and/or fire, celestials like light, fey want nature and/or illusion).

I'm hoping this version results in spell points being used more for interesting things as well as making the different origins feel more distinct.

Cyclops08
2019-05-06, 10:01 AM
just a silly thought.
How about a sorcerer imbued with the essence of a gamer geek from our world? A kid who has minmaxed the game to the nth degree. A sorcerer who has been beat up a few times by other sorcerers because he tried to rules-lawyer them in the real life of the DnD world.

Hmmm. but what bennies would the minmaxer get?

Maan
2019-05-06, 10:34 AM
I've started a big worldbuilding effort for a campaign (maybe more than one) and some of the assumptions D&D 5e rules make about the setting don't sit too well with what I'm envisioning.

So, I'd like to see some origins for a sorcers who get their spellcasting from:
- Celestial power. Though this might well be the Divine Soul.
- Fiendish power. My setting doesn't divide fiends between demons and devils, so it's something "generically from the lower planes". Could work with Warlock spell list, I guess.
- Nature power, something shaman-ish I guess. Neutral "power of the nature" stuff, with both good Mother Nature and grim survival of the fittest. Maybe something like Divine Soul but with Druid spell list?

Something based on the elements would be cool, too. I mean, we have Storm Sorcery which I guess it's Air; Phoenix Sorcery would be Fire. Now if we could fill Water and Earth... Cold based damage, for the first, I'd say? Maybe Acid, too, though I'm not sure if Acid could go to Earth, together with Poison. If just on account of Poison being pretty easily resisted...
Maybe just a bit of reworking what it's there could do the trick (like Stone Sorcery).

Cyclops08
2019-05-06, 02:14 PM
I've started a big worldbuilding effort for a campaign (maybe more than one) and some of the assumptions D&D 5e rules make about the setting don't sit too well with what I'm envisioning.

So, I'd like to see some origins for a sorcers who get their spellcasting from:
- Celestial power. Though this might well be the Divine Soul.
- Fiendish power. My setting doesn't divide fiends between demons and devils, so it's something "generically from the lower planes". Could work with Warlock spell list, I guess.
- Nature power, something shaman-ish I guess. Neutral "power of the nature" stuff, with both good Mother Nature and grim survival of the fittest. Maybe something like Divine Soul but with Druid spell list?

Something based on the elements would be cool, too. I mean, we have Storm Sorcery which I guess it's Air; Phoenix Sorcery would be Fire. Now if we could fill Water and Earth... Cold based damage, for the first, I'd say? Maybe Acid, too, though I'm not sure if Acid could go to Earth, together with Poison. If just on account of Poison being pretty easily resisted...
Maybe just a bit of reworking what it's there could do the trick (like Stone Sorcery).
Starting off with Fiendish.Celestial bloodlines, This almost sounds like a warlock. You could play the game and add a great old one version.

Perhaps grandad made a Warlock pact and his bloodline was tainted. Great way to taint/bless a few bloodlines.

Maan
2019-05-06, 04:03 PM
Starting off with Fiendish.Celestial bloodlines, This almost sounds like a warlock. You could play the game and add a great old one version.

Perhaps grandad made a Warlock pact and his bloodline was tainted. Great way to taint/bless a few bloodlines.
Yup. But lore wise the Warlock makes a personal pact with a patron, while here I was thinking about a blessed/cursed bloodline.
...almost Aasimar/Tiefling turned class, really :smalltongue:

thisdude9001
2019-05-07, 02:05 PM
I personally believe that a ghost themed Sorcerer would be pretty neat. Giving some simple things like mage hand/toll of the dead for free. Later on maybe gain the ability to fly around and go threw walls. Maybe even possession like the Warlocks Create thrall ability.

Morphic tide
2019-05-07, 04:20 PM
I've started a big worldbuilding effort for a campaign (maybe more than one) and some of the assumptions D&D 5e rules make about the setting don't sit too well with what I'm envisioning.

So, I'd like to see some origins for a sorcers who get their spellcasting from:
What particular assumptions in the rules do you have issues with, exactly? And why do they imply the need for Sorcerous Origins?


- Celestial power. Though this might well be the Divine Soul.
This is, indeed, the point of the Divine Soul. If there's a reason Divine Soul doesn't work, then you should explain why so as to have some idea what you want from it.


- Fiendish power. My setting doesn't divide fiends between demons and devils, so it's something "generically from the lower planes". Could work with Warlock spell list, I guess.
One thought would be having the 14th or 18th level Origin Feature be a 1/3rd progression set of Pact Magic slots and the ability to loan out spell slots, turning the character into a Fiendish sponsor while simultaneously giving gameplay endurance by having some short-rest slots, that can in turn be melted down for long-rest slots and metamagic.


- Nature power, something shaman-ish I guess. Neutral "power of the nature" stuff, with both good Mother Nature and grim survival of the fittest. Maybe something like Divine Soul but with Druid spell list?
So the living world side of Druidic abilities, rather than the Elemental side? I'd have it focus on the healing and transformation stuff, rather than get into plants, possibly model it off of Moon Druid, with the healing being a bit less discriminate. Do remember that Druids also cover a lot of the Elemental ground, so flat-out Druid list access would overlap a lot with Elemental origins, in terms of the spells.


Something based on the elements would be cool, too. I mean, we have Storm Sorcery which I guess it's Air; Phoenix Sorcery would be Fire. Now if we could fill Water and Earth... Cold based damage, for the first, I'd say? Maybe Acid, too, though I'm not sure if Acid could go to Earth, together with Poison. If just on account of Poison being pretty easily resisted...
Maybe just a bit of reworking what it's there could do the trick (like Stone Sorcery).
Generally, when you have an idea that involves a bunch of overlap, it's best to have the overlap be a baseline and the differences be subselections. Totem Barbarian is a good example of such a design principal. This works well for an Elemental origin, as a lot of the difference is in Energy types and appropriate thing to give a numeric bonus to (much like Draconic Origin), unless you want to do a bundle of work coming up with differences that don't fit in the spell list.

---

Generally, what I'd like to see is a set of Origins that focus on an association with the power of another class, then mimicking the most inheritance-appropriate subclasses from those classes with sub-selections like Circle Druid and Totem Barbarian, eventually capping off with the level 18 Origin feature with some bonus slots of the associated power source (as in specifically only spells from that class) and a bit of power granting in said source.

Maan
2019-05-09, 07:03 AM
What particular assumptions in the rules do you have issues with, exactly? And why do they imply the need for Sorcerous Origins?
Example: shamans.
Not really Clerics, Druid has too limited a scope. A Sorcerer seems the closest thing to what I have in mind for some kind of "tribal spirit voice".


This is, indeed, the point of the Divine Soul. If there's a reason Divine Soul doesn't work, then you should explain why so as to have some idea what you want from it.
Well, if the idea was to do a "half-Cleric" Sorcerer, I feel this falls short. Like it's thorn between trying to make a general Cleric (with options for every alignment) but then putting things like bonus to healing that are more oriented towards a Good-aligned character.

Thanks for the advice!

Vogie
2019-05-10, 10:11 AM
I would love to get them away from origins.

Because "my grandma :smallannoyed::smallannoyed::smallfrown::smallfrow n::smallmad::smallmad: a dragon" just doesn't sit right with me.

I would say have the sorcerer be the magical equivalent of the fighter fluff that people typically give them "just that damn good" on their own merits and focus more on metamagics.

So, with that being said, a meta-magic/SP focused sorcerer who doesn't gain more spells, but more access to metamagics and doesn't have any special origin.

You can adjust the word origin to mean what you want it to mean. If a PC loots a dragon corpse after a battle, there's a potential that they get dragonblood intermingled into one of their wounds. You can expand that into giant, celestial, et cetera. A wild magic sorcerer may have just gotten their origin by an unintended trip through the Feywild. A sea or storm sorcerer could have their origin from a perfect storm or unsuccessful drowning.

I have a campaign idea brewing with a arc boss being draconic sorcerer who isn't satisfied with their abilities, so they're hunting down other draconic sorcerers & stealing their blood in hopes to use it to transform themselves into a dragon.



I would like to see more metamagics, and a subclass that specifically drills down into that instead of going in other directions.

Man_Over_Game
2019-05-10, 12:25 PM
A few I'm disappointed in not seeing so far:


A Cursed Origin. Many are familiar with the idea of being cursed at birth, or being some dark omen. A Sorcerer Origin around curses or omens would be perfect. Has an emphasis on curses or changing someone's luck.
A Possessed Origin. Either having a lineage that's known for interacting with ghosts, or literally having a spirit inside of them, this is something I could really see be a thing. You temporarily gain powers, like that of a Bladesinger or Barbarian, and interact with ghosts.
A Void Origin. Some beings aren't born, they're made. Maybe you're a simulacrum that gained sentience, or perhaps you were created for some grand purpose, or maybe you were someone and accidentally lost your personality from some accident. Doesn't matter- you forge your own destiny now. Your powers draw upon the void, or rely on bonding yourself to other things.
Guardian Origin. Your ancestors protected something as part of their lineage, and now it's your duty to do so as well. You have powers designed to be a bulwark against danger.

MagneticKitty
2019-05-10, 01:25 PM
I want to see a sorcerer based on exposure to Faerzress (magical underdark radiation). Kinda like the shadow sorc, but more spider powers and underdark specific. Think gloomstalker ish. Maybe mindflayers ish
like a psionic sorc could fit too.