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SoD
2007-10-05, 09:33 AM
One of my players is toying with the following idea:

His character dies.
His character comes back as a ghost.
His characters ghost possesses his next character (before the party meet him) and rejoins the party.

+5 LA and stuff aside, the listing for Malevolence (possession) says that a ghost can do it once a round, will save negates, blah blah blah if creature makes its save, it's immune for 24 hours...however, it says nothing about how long this possession would last.

The only figures it gives are the 'attempt once a round' and the 'immune for 24 hours'.

I'm thinking that the represeptacle (is that ever a word?) can make a new save every 24 hours...but do you guys know if there's rules written down somewhere for this sort of thing? And if not, what would you guys do in this situation?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-05, 09:50 AM
The text for the Malevolence ability indicates that it replicates the magic jar spell save for the the need for an external receptacle. Magic jar lasts up to 1 hour per level. A ghost's Malevolence is further specified as operating at caster level 10 or a caster level equal to the ghost's hit dice, whichever is higher.

Note that there is no indication that a creature possessed by a ghost with more than 24 hit dice automatically gets a save after 24 hours have passed.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-10-05, 09:51 AM
The ghost ability 'Malevolence' says that it functions like a Magic Jar spell:


Once per round, an ethereal ghost can merge its body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 10th or the ghostís Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle.

Magic jar lasts 1 hour /level. So depending on what level the chracter is, it'll last 10 hours or more, then he gets shunted out and has to try again.

{Edit}Curses! A minute too late... {/edit}

SoD
2007-10-05, 09:51 AM
OK, and, just to save me the horror of opening the PHB, would the subject be allowed another will save to eject the ghost, or would just float out?

SpikeFightwicky
2007-10-05, 09:54 AM
If the spell ends while you are in the magic jar, you return to your body (or die if your body is out of range or destroyed). If the spell ends while you are in a host, you return to your body (or die, if it is out of range of your current position), and the soul in the magic jar returns to its body (or dies if it is out of range). Destroying the receptacle ends the spell, and the spell can be dispelled at either the magic jar or at the hostís location.

So after the time's up, he gets shunted out of the body and will have to try to possess again.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-05, 09:58 AM
Tip: if the character in question is particularly evil and also has the Draining Touch ability, he could use the Draining Touch to reduce a host's Wisdom to zero, giving the charactera -5 to Will. This will help ensure the host fails its saves as well as keep the host from attempting to escape every time the Malvolence has to be reset. Of course, the ghost will still need to keep the host alive, which means that he'll lose the benefits of not having to breathe, eat, or drink unless he possesses a creature that doesn't require any of those either.

SoD
2007-10-05, 10:01 AM
Not an evil character. CN. Although he has considered developing an evil alter ego personality. But I'll let him know about the ability drain. I'm thinking to counter the level adjustment, just knock his ghost character down 5 levels. I mean, if being brought back to life can be bad XP wise, why not being ghostified? And he's agreed to that side of things.

mostlyharmful
2007-10-05, 10:03 AM
If the Ghost is a spellcaster or had an item of dominate on them at the time of death then you can also dominate the possessed, (since there isn't a receptical the target hasn't gone anywhere, just been suppressed for the duration). You can then order them to fail their will saves against your continued possesion and recast the dominate once per day (with them failing the will save for that as well) for perpetual enslavement.:smallcool:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-05, 10:16 AM
Not an evil character. CN.
Well, I suppose the tactic is still viable for a character of this alignment. Though, I would personally consider it to be a pretty evil act, so it seems like a good step down the path to the dark side.


I'm thinking to counter the level adjustment, just knock his ghost character down 5 levels. I mean, if being brought back to life can be bad XP wise, why not being ghostified? And he's agreed to that side of things.
Sounds fair enough to me. I'd go for it.

Now, the next trick is finding a good way to develop a host body for the character to take that doesn't unbalance things. I'd consider limiting him to a member of low-level PC or NPC class from one of the basic races (exact level depends on party level). Probably one with similar physical scores as the ghost's former living body, too. If he wants something more powerful, you should probably add a significant fraction of the host's ECL to the ghost's "effective LA."


You can then order them to fail their will saves against your continued possesion and recast the dominate once per day (with them failing the will save for that as well) for perpetual enslavement.:smallcool:
I would consider willingly letting a hostile being possess one's body to be against almost any creature's nature. This would give them a new save vs. the domination at a +2 bonus.

It may even qualify as self-destructive. Which means even on a failed save, the order is not carried out.

Indon
2007-10-05, 10:32 AM
Can Magic Jar be Permanencied?

SoD
2007-10-05, 10:42 AM
Officially-no.

The PhB does say, however, 'The DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent.'

However, I'd he hesitant to make Dominate permanent, no matter what the reason was. For a start, it'd be to abusable, and what would stop him casting it on other people? Good idea though.

Also, presuming the ability drain of wisdom to 0-that should put the recipitent into 'a deep sleep filled with nightmares'. When possessing a victim in that state, should the ghost be able to control them normally?

Mewtarthio
2007-10-05, 01:23 PM
Also, presuming the ability drain of wisdom to 0-that should put the recipitent into 'a deep sleep filled with nightmares'. When possessing a victim in that state, should the ghost be able to control them normally?

I don't see why not. You aren't ordering the victim to do anything; you're suppressing their soul and taking contol of their body. It's probably Evil, though: If the 0-Wis coma is really "filled with nightmares," keeping someone in it for the long term has got to be horrific for them.

Or were you talking about Dominate? You could establish control during the coma, but you'd have to restore the victim's wisdom in order to do anything with them.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-10-05, 02:12 PM
Also, presuming the ability drain of wisdom to 0-that should put the recipitent into 'a deep sleep filled with nightmares'. When possessing a victim in that state, should the ghost be able to control them normally?
Yes. Your conciousness takes control of the physical body while displacing the comatose one. That is why you retain your own mental stats when using magic jar/malevolence. As long as the ghost's Wisdom stays above 0, he'll be all set.


It's probably Evil, though: If the 0-Wis coma is really "filled with nightmares," keeping someone in it for the long term has got to be horrific for them.
Mind you that the Draining Touch ability is ability drain. It's permanent. Unless the subject recieves a restoration or similar effect, the coma will be for the long term.

Yeah, this is one of the reasons I would consider the suggested tactic an Evil act.

Runolfr
2007-10-05, 02:16 PM
+5 LA and stuff aside, the listing for Malevolence (possession) says that a ghost can do it once a round, will save negates, blah blah blah if creature makes its save, it's immune for 24 hours...however, it says nothing about how long this possession would last.

The only figures it gives are the 'attempt once a round' and the 'immune for 24 hours'.

The supernatural ability works like magic jar at caster level 10. Magic jar has a duration of 1 hour per caster level, so the possession should last ten hours.