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HamsterKun
2019-05-27, 10:17 AM
I made this homebrew class awhile back for 5e, and I was wondering if anyone could give me advice for it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fdADCWEVNYjk0RpFDwkAnxm9vjymy9Nu0yN-dFxczw

As content with it as I am, part of me is worried that the capstone might be a smidge too OP. I mean, having +8 PB is pretty nuts, but at least it’s at Lv20.

KittenMagician
2019-05-27, 11:12 AM
i like the idea of pulling a little bit from each class (roughly) but it feels like you are trying to pack in a little too much and there is essentially nothing new (which i understand might be the point.) i think instead of a half caster (like paladins and rangers) make it a third caster (like arcane trickster and eldritch knight.) As for what its missing you dont have any subclasses. maybe there are different kinds of adventurers (explorers, give them the extra climb and swim. Treasure hunters, give them bonuses to stealth and/or investigation.) i dont have time for more right now but i can potentially come up with a couple more. lastly i think that the capstone ability (20th level) should be more unique compared to other classes. if you still want it to be an amalgamation of other class stuff just look at oath of conquest in xanathar's guide to everything (cause its essentially an amalgamation of other class abilities.)

overall though i think its a fun idea

HamsterKun
2019-05-27, 11:29 AM
The point of the class was to have a little bit of everything, but with no real specialization, hence why I gave it the glaring lack of a subclass.

KittenMagician
2019-05-27, 01:47 PM
none the less it feels a little too packed

Crisis21
2019-05-27, 03:11 PM
So, I agree with KittenMagician that this feels rather packed, especially in the early levels. It just... feels like you're trying to do too much with the class. I get that you're trying to make a generalist, but it doesn't feel like a generalist.

I also feel like the lack of archetypes hurts the concept. Yeah, you're a generalist adventurer, but even generalists have fields they do better than others.


So, changes I'd suggest making:

Remove Stirring Inspiration - This just flat does not fit the 'generalist' feel of the class. If you want to put it back is as part of an archetype, then go for it, but not as a main class feature.

Remove Fast Movement - Same as above. It feels like a minor specialization rather than a generalist thing.

Fold the 'Cantrips' feature into the 'Spellcasting' feature - It really should be like this already.

Create a unique spell list - Don't just say 'anything from the Wizard, Cleric, or Bard spell lists' because even capping at 5th level that's a lot to give this class access to. Instead, take some time to figure out what spells a member of the Adventurer class would find most useful. Likely spells that lend themselves to utility and usefulness in a wide variety of situations. As a half caster, they really should have a unique spell list even if they don't have unique spells.

Work in room for Archetypes - All main base classes have a few archetypes and it will help this feel like a more complete class.
I would advise the first archetype feature be at 3rd level and then the rest at 6th, 10th, and 15th levels. This would be in keeping with the archetype conventions of other classes (and would conveniently fill in most of the spaces vacated by Stirring Inspiration and Fast Movement)

Possible Archetypes:
Dungeon Raider (Traps. Gotta deal with traps)
Knight Errant (Focus on martial improvement, give Extra Attack (2) at 10th or 15th level)
Missionary (Grant Channel Divinity options, spellcasting modifier is now Wisdom)
Researcher (Knowledge based, spellcasting modifier is now Intelligence, maybe give them a spellbook?)
Scout (Return Fast Movement, focus on speed and stealth)
Travelling Hero (Give back Stirring Inspiration)

Gr7mm Bobb
2019-05-27, 04:56 PM
I like the above suggestions. Really here to be able to pick this out from the list later. I loved the Factotum from 3.5 and have been trying to find a nice version of it that might work and this is the closest thing I've found yet that captures the feel for an "everyman" class. Will definitely give it a look over later though.

HamsterKun
2019-05-27, 05:15 PM
Work in room for Archetypes - All main base classes have a few archetypes and it will help this feel like a more complete class.
I would advise the first archetype feature be at 3rd level and then the rest at 6th, 10th, and 15th levels. This would be in keeping with the archetype conventions of other classes (and would conveniently fill in most of the spaces vacated by Stirring Inspiration and Fast Movement)

Possible Archetypes:
Dungeon Raider (Traps. Gotta deal with traps)
Knight Errant (Focus on martial improvement, give Extra Attack (2) at 10th or 15th level)
Missionary (Grant Channel Divinity options, spellcasting modifier is now Wisdom)
Researcher (Knowledge based, spellcasting modifier is now Intelligence, maybe give them a spellbook?)
Scout (Return Fast Movement, focus on speed and stealth)
Travelling Hero (Give back Stirring Inspiration)

Thanks for the advice! I will revise when I get the chance.

Crisis21
2019-05-27, 11:45 PM
Fun Archetype facts:

Between the 12 base classes and the 2 UA classes (Mystic and Artificer), 4 gain their archetype at 1st level (Cleric, Mystic, Sorcerer, Warlock), 2 gain it at 2nd level (Druid and Wizard), and the rest gain their archetype at 3rd level.

Note: Cleric also essentially gets a half feature for their archetype at 2nd level (Channel Divinity) and Mystic gets another archetype feature at 3rd level.

All archetypes get a feature at either 6th or 7th level (Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, and Rogue get it at 7th, everyone else gets it at 6th).

Note: Cleric once again breaks the mold by getting another archetype feature at 8th level. It is the only class to do this.

Eight of the classes get a feature at 10th (Barbarian, Druid, Fighter, Rogue, Warlock, Wizard) or 11th (Monk and Ranger) level.

Ten of the classes get a feature at 14th (Artificer, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Mystic, Warlock, Wizard) or 15th (Figther, Paladin, Ranger) level.

Four get a feature at 17th (Cleric and Monk) or 18th (Fighter and Sorcerer) level.

Only one (Paladin) gets an archetype feature at 20th level.

HamsterKun
2019-05-28, 08:07 AM
I revised the class.

Class: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fdADCWEVNYjk0RpFDwkAnxm9vjymy9Nu0yN-dFxczw

Archetypes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/113yU-i6vrL-VFDh0yr-8BBA6kBpdCTKoqaznoWwAvg8

moonfly7
2019-05-28, 12:58 PM
Love this idea, I think its great. I'd like to point out that a lot of tables have the home brew rule that you can cast more than one spell on your turn, so the researchers feature that does that might not work for those tables, however I love the concept of being able to do that in games where it isn't normal. adventurer is something I may just play. (P.S add a magic item/mundane item crafting subclass that lets you make scrolls from any class list, and the rogues use magic device. Either that or make it a normal feature. just a suggestion!)

HamsterKun
2019-05-28, 05:10 PM
Love this idea, I think its great. I'd like to point out that a lot of tables have the home brew rule that you can cast more than one spell on your turn, so the researchers feature that does that might not work for those tables, however I love the concept of being able to do that in games where it isn't normal. adventurer is something I may just play. (P.S add a magic item/mundane item crafting subclass that lets you make scrolls from any class list, and the rogues use magic device. Either that or make it a normal feature. just a suggestion!)

I don’t think that I’ve ever heard the rule that you can cast multiple spells per turn. It’d make physical classes useless without Extra Attack.

Crisis21
2019-05-28, 08:58 PM
I don’t think that I’ve ever heard the rule that you can cast multiple spells per turn. It’d make physical classes useless without Extra Attack.

It depends on the casting time of spells. Disregarding spells that have a casting time longer than one round, there are three possibilities for a spell's casting time: 1 action (most common), 1 bonus action (uncommon), 1 reaction (rare). So you can theoretically cast as many as three spells in one turn (no home rule necessary), one using your action, one your bonus action, and one your reaction. You still need to expend spell slots of course, and your options for spells is limited by their casting times.

Sorcerers in particular get a feature called Metamagic that they can use to modify spells by spending 'sorcery points'. One of the metamagic options is Quickened Spell which changes the casting time of spells with a casting time of 1 action to a casting time of 1 bonus action.

This does, of course, run through your spell slots that much faster.


Edit: Love the archetypes!

KittenMagician
2019-05-28, 10:12 PM
It depends on the casting time of spells. Disregarding spells that have a casting time longer than one round, there are three possibilities for a spell's casting time: 1 action (most common), 1 bonus action (uncommon), 1 reaction (rare). So you can theoretically cast as many as three spells in one turn (no home rule necessary), one using your action, one your bonus action, and one your reaction. You still need to expend spell slots of course, and your options for spells is limited by their casting times.

Sorcerers in particular get a feature called Metamagic that they can use to modify spells by spending 'sorcery points'. One of the metamagic options is Quickened Spell which changes the casting time of spells with a casting time of 1 action to a casting time of 1 bonus action.

This does, of course, run through your spell slots that much faster.


Edit: Love the archetypes!


{pushes glasses firmly up the bridge of my nose} UMMMM.... actually if you look at page 202 of the PHB under casting time if you cast a spell as a bonus action the highest level spell you can cast as your action is a cantrip. this allows sorcerers to cast an action spell and cantrip, or dash and cast, or any other action and cast an action level spell. so you must have a special house rule to cast more per turn. in the game i dm i personally dont care, i actually love my players to blow all their spells as fast as possible. im not trying to be rude really i just wanted to make sure there wasnt any confusion

Crisis21
2019-05-28, 11:40 PM
Huh... I was totally playing my ice sorcerer wrong last campaign then...

KittenMagician
2019-05-29, 12:33 AM
Huh... I was totally playing my ice sorcerer wrong last campaign then...

its all good we all make mistakes but its always up to your DM. i always ask when im a player what the rules they dont use/ what rules they add

Crisis21
2019-05-29, 12:47 AM
My DM for that campaign had a very... loose relationship with the rules. Sometimes that was for the better, sometimes not.

HamsterKun
2019-05-29, 07:43 AM
With the Doublecast feature, you effectively circumvent the rule that you can only cast multiple spells if one of them has a casting time of a bonus action.

As such, you don’t need to have an ability that gives you a bonus action, AND you can cast ANY two 1-action-or-less spells back-to-back.

moonfly7
2019-05-29, 08:09 AM
With the Doublecast feature, you effectively circumvent the rule that you can only cast multiple spells if one of them has a casting time of a bonus action.

As such, you don’t need to have an ability that gives you a bonus action, AND you can cast ANY two 1-action-or-less spells back-to-back.

Right, which is great. But at my table it would be a useless feature through no fault of yours, as I allow casting more than one spell a turn. I'm simply asking for a suggestion to fill that feature for tables such as my own. Obviously it's great for normal tables, just wondering if you had any ideas for mine.

Breccia
2019-05-29, 08:25 AM
Well, let's talk weapon damage for a bit.

My apologies on the "tables" below. I haven't figured them out on this system yet.

A Fighter, a Rogue, and an Adventurer walk into a dungeon and start killing all the monsters. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume the Fighter is using a 2d6 weapon and the others a 1d6 weapon. For the further sake of simplicity, let's give them all a stat of 18, and leave out Fighting Styles, Two-Weapon Fighting and Archetypes for now (for all we know, they took Defense)

Lvl Fighter Rogue Adventurer
1 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11
2 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11
3 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5 2d6+4 11
4 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5 2d6+4 11
5 4d6+8 22 4d6+4 18 4d6+8 22
6 4d6+8 22 4d6+4 18 4d6+8 22
7 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 21.5 4d6+8 22
8 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 21.5 4d6+8 22
9 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 25 5d6+8 25.5
10 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 25 5d6+8 25.5
11 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 28.5 5d6+8 25.5
12 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 28.5 5d6+8 25.5
13 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 32 6d6+8 29
14 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 32 6d6+8 29
15 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 35.5 6d6+8 29
16 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 35.5 6d6+8 29
17 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 39 7d6+8 32.5
18 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 39 7d6+8 32.5
19 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 42.5 7d6+8 32.5
20 8d6+16 44 2d6+4 42.5 7d6+8 32.5

As you can see, the Adventurer is really competitive, especially at lower levels. He hangs out with the fighter and the rogue quite well for many levels (blue), and a few levels where they're actually top dog (bolded). Considering they get spells and the Fighter and Rogue don't, that's pretty strong.

But...it gets worse. Or better, I guess, depending on perspective.

Opportunistic Strike isn't limited by weapon choice.

Let's redo those numbers but give the Adventurer a 2d6 weapon, because there's nothing in the rules preventing this.

Lvl Fighter Rogue Adventurer
1 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5
2 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5
3 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5 3d6+4 14.5
4 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5 3d6+4 14.5
5 4d6+8 22 4d6+4 18 6d6+8 29
6 4d6+8 22 4d6+4 18 6d6+8 29
7 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 21.5 6d6+8 29
8 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 21.5 6d6+8 29
9 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 25 7d6+8 32.5
10 4d6+8 22 2d6+4 25 7d6+8 32.5
11 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 28.5 7d6+8 32.5
12 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 28.5 7d6+8 32.5
13 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 32 8d6+8 36
14 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 32 8d6+8 36
15 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 35.5 8d6+8 36
16 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 35.5 8d6+8 36
17 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 39 9d6+8 39.5
18 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 39 9d6+8 39.5
19 6d6+12 33 2d6+4 42.5 9d6+8 39.5
20 8d6+16 44 2d6+4 42.5 9d6+8 39.5

By the stained beermug of Thor! The Adventurer is now the undisputed top dog damage dealer for the literal majority of levels, and tied or within half a point in the majority of remaining levels. Again, considering they have spells and the other two don't, that's strong. I would even opine overpowered.

Now, the Adventurer needs to use a 2d6 weapon to do this, but one of the archetypes hands this to them, and there are other ways (including Alternate Human) to have this as early as first level.

If you're going to borrow from other classes, that includes restrictions. The Rogue can't Sneak Attack with a halberd, even if they were proficient with it. I'm going to ask you to make the Opportunistic Strike at least require the weapon be used in one hand, even if you don't go all the way down to "finesse" which this 50/50 Str/Dex class might not want.

Composer99
2019-05-29, 08:39 AM
I made this homebrew class awhile back for 5e, and I was wondering if anyone could give me advice for it:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fdADCWEVNYjk0RpFDwkAnxm9vjymy9Nu0yN-dFxczw

As content with it as I am, part of me is worried that the capstone might be a smidge too OP. I mean, having +8 PB is pretty nuts, but at least it’s at Lv20.


I revised the class.

Class: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fdADCWEVNYjk0RpFDwkAnxm9vjymy9Nu0yN-dFxczw

Archetypes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/113yU-i6vrL-VFDh0yr-8BBA6kBpdCTKoqaznoWwAvg8

All in all, a pretty solid effort, although the subclasses are a bit more hit-or-miss. I do have a few questions/remarks/nitpicks about various things.

First off, to make things a bit easier for me to review, I've made a class table (courtesy of the table code here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521278-Preset-Class-Tables-for-5e-Homebrew))





—Spell Slots per Spell Level—


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th


1st
+2
Fighting Style, Spellcasting, Opportunistic Strike (1d6)
2








2nd
+2
Jack of All Trades
2
3
2






3rd
+2
Adventurer Archetype
2
4
3






4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
3






5th
+3
Extra Attack, Opportunistic Strike (2d6)
3
6
4
2





6th
+3
Adventurer Archetype Feature
3
7
4
2





7th
+3
Evasion
3
8
4
3





8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
3
9
4
3





9th
+4
Opportunistic Strike (3d6)
3
10
4
3
2




10th
+4
Adventurer Archetype Feature
4
11
4
3
2




11th
+4
Seasoned Adventurer
4
12
4
3
3




12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
4
12
4
3
3




13th
+5
Opportunistic Strike (4d6)
4
13
4
3
3
1



14th
+5
Reliable Talent
4
13
4
3
3
1



15th
+5
Adventurer Archetype Feature
4
14
4
3
3
2



16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
4
14
4
3
3
2



17th
+6
Opportunistic Strike (5d6)
4
15
4
3
3
3
1


18th
+6
True Survivor
4
15
4
3
3
3
1


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
3
3
3
2


20th
+6
Luck of the Irish... I mean Gods
4
15
4
3
3
3
2



All right, on with the show!



Hit Points
Hit Dice: Xd8 (X = Adventurer level)
HP at 1st Level: 8 + CON modifier
HP at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + CON modifier per level after 1st


Nitpick: 5e doesn't really go in for using algebraic notation, so I'd suggest going by the standard convention and writing "1d8 per adventurer level" for the Hit Dice entry. Also, just as a personal idiosyncracy, "CON modifier" drives me a little batty, so I'd suggest writing those out the way they appear in the PHB classes.



Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords, longswords, rapiers, scimitars, hand crossbows
Tools: Choose any 1
Saving Throws: Strength or Dexterity (your choice), Charisma
Skills: Choose any 3


The weapon, tool, and skill proficiencies are all fine. I wonder if maybe you could throw medium armour in to the base class proficiencies, instead of one of the subclasses. After all, this is a half-caster class with Extra Attack.

Also, Strength is one of the lesser saving throws, so I'd suggest giving the choice of one of Dexterity or Constitution. (Or you could go whole hog with the versatile thing and offer the choice of Dex, Con, and Wisdom as well.)



Fighting Style
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose an option from the list of fighting styles. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.

[...]

Opportunistic Strike
You know how to exploit a foe's blunder with a flamboyant yet deadly blow. [...]0


Spellcasting
Through a mix of actually studying, observing magic in action, praying to or making deals with higher powers, and/or "borrowing" magical secrets, you are able to cast spells.

Cantrips
You start off knowing two cantrips of your choice from the Wizard, Cleric, and/or Bard spell lists. You learn additional cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Adventurer table.

[...]


Jack of All Trades
Starting at 2nd Level, you can add half your Proficiency Bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your Proficiency Bonus.


This class has a stronger 1st level and weaker 2nd level than other half-caster classes such as paladin or ranger. If you look at their 1st level features, they don't have combat boosts. Instead, they load up at 2nd level, getting spellcasting and fighting styles, and paladins even get smites.

I'd be inclined to suggest moving Jack of All Trades to 1st level, leaving Opportunistic Strike at 1st level, and moving Fighting Style and even the cantrips to 2nd level to be in line with those classes. You'd be getting Jack of All Trades earlier than bards do, but this class is in many ways actually a jack of all trades compared to bards, so I think it would work.

I will strongly reiterate Crisis21's suggestion to come up with a distinct spell list for this class. Getting your pick of the best from three "full-caster" lists just seems like too much.



Seasoned Adventurer
Once you reach 11th Level, you've been along the block long enough that your quick reactions are starting to show themselves. You have advantage on initiative rolls.

True Survivor
By 18th Level, you have had a taste of every conceivable hostile infliction under the sun. You are now proficient in all saving throws.

Luck of the Gods
Once you reach 20th Level, you have an innate luck that can kick in during a matter of life and death. When you fail a saving throw, you can choose to succeed instead. Once you have used this feature, you cannot use it again until you have finished a Long Rest.


These are all fine. Some language/grammar nitpicks, which are applicable anywhere they may be found:
- In True Survivor, I believe you mean "every conceivable hostile affliction ...". Also, hostile is redundant.
- You don't need to capitalise "level" and "long rest" (or "short rest" for that matter). It just looks weird seeing them so.

On to the subclasses.

As a general language nitpick, for some reason the descriptive text switches between second-person and third-person plural (e.g. one sentence is "you blah blah" and the next one is "they blah blah") and it's a little off-putting.



Scout
You are skilled in stealth and surviving both in the city and far from it, making use of the speed, agility, and quick wits you are armed with. They tend to not fight the enemy head-on if they don’t have to, preferring to ambush them from their blind spot and escape before they can react.

Fast Movement
When you first choose this archetype at 3rd Level, your walking speed increases by 10 feet. This is increased by an additional 10 feet once you reach 10th Level in this class.

All-Terrain Traveller
At 3rd Level, you gain the ability to climb and swim faster than normal; climbing and swimming no longer costs you extra movement. Additionally, when you make a running long jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Dexterity modifier.

Uncanny Speed
Starting at 6th Level, your quick thinking and agility let you move and act very quickly. You can take a bonus action on each of your turns in combat. This action can be used only to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action.

Flurry of Blows
By 10th Level, you’ve learned to attack with unexpected speed to overwhelm your opponent. Immediately after taking the Attack action with a melee attack with a Light and/or Finesse weapon, you can deal two additional attacks as a bonus action.

Critical Edge
Starting at 15th Level, you are able to deal telling blows almost at will. When you take the Attack action, you can choose to make it a critical hit without needing to roll. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you finish a Short or Long Rest.


Fast Movement, All-Terrain Traveler, and Uncanny Speed are all fine. I do feel like this archetype is missing an "archetype-defining" feature, if you will, something that really changes how it plays compared to other archetypes. For instance, improved critical for champions vs. battlemaster maneuvers for battlemasters. "Moves faster" is well and good, but I'm not sure it's just archetype-defining enough.

I'm not super keen on Flurry of Blows or Critical Edge. This Flurry is a straight-up improvement on the monk one, in that monks need to at least spend a limited resource (ki points) which they also use to fuel other features.

As for Critical Edge, the usage limit is fine, but automatically scoring a critical hit without needing to even make an attack roll just doesn't sit right, especially with a class that gets what amounts to sneak attack damage. There's also a potential for shenanigans with paladin smites, but you have to be a 17th-level character to get up to them, so that's all right. Also... you get two attacks when you take the Attack action at 15th level. Are both attacks boosted by this feature? It's ambiguous because you refer to the Attack action but then use the singular "it".

Also, the way these are described, they don't strike me as being very... "scout-y", as it were.

I think Flurry would be fine with a limitation on how often you can use it, and a little tweaking of the descriptive text to make it match the flavour of a "scout".

Critical Edge needs some mechanical revision and IMO a substantial descriptive revision, including renaming the feature (at least IMO). Maybe make it an ability where you strike from ambush (however metaphorically)? If you have advantage on an attack roll, as long as your attack hits it's a critical hit. Keep the use limits and it would probably be fine.



Knight Errant
You were trained to fight with martial weapons, but turned down the opportunity to be a soldier. Instead, they are guided by their wanderlust for adventure by chivalry or whatever their guiding conscience may be. They excel on the front lines, trained to deal devastating blows.

Bonus Proficiency
At 3rd Level, you gain proficiency with medium armor and all martial weapons.

Improved Critical
When you first choose this archetype at 3rd Level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit of a roll of 19 or 20.

Pursuit Attack
Starting at 6th Level, when you take the Dash action, you can make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action. However, you cannot perform multiple attacks from the Extra Attack feature.

Enduring Spirit
Starting at 10th Level, your toughness allows you to shrug off assaults that would devastate others.
Whenever you make a saving throw, roll 1d6 and add the die to your saving throw total. If applying this bonus to a death saving throw increases the total to 20 or higher, you gain the benefits of rolling a 20 on the d20.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 15th Level, you can attack three times, instead of twice, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.


I've already suggested moving medium armour to the base class. Just getting all martial weapons is good enough.

Improved Critical is fine, if a bit boring. You're still doing less damage on a crit on average than fighter/rogue multiclass, so your "sneak attack" damage is fine. (Edit: Or maybe not, as per the post upthread of mine that calculates damage, which must have gone up before I finished working on this.)

Pursuit Attack is fine. You can eliminate the text restricting your extra attacks. Extra Attack already specifies that you have to take the Attack action, so getting a bonus action attack on your turn doesn't qualify as that action, and therefore does not allow your extra attacks. I have a homebrew set of combat manoeuvres that step all over the PHB Charger feat, so I'm not going to quibble about how this feature does so as well.

Enduring Spirit is fine as far as its effect goes, but it probably needs a usage limit, especially since you're getting proficiency to all saving throws down the road. On the other hand... paladins do give +Cha to all saving throws to themselves and nearby allies as early as 6th level, so maybe I'm being too harsh here.

The additional Extra Attack is probably fine mechanically, but I don't know... giving anyone who isn't a fighter that kind of a boost just doesn't sit well with me. Fighters only really have extra attacks and Action Surge as their class-defining "shticks", so it just feels like it's taking away from their niche a little too much. Although, now I come to think of it, 15th level is a bit of an odd place to have an ability that normally happens at a tier breakpoint.



Researcher
Delving into the secrets of the multiverse, you are in possession of arcane magic that you use to weave the world to your desires. These types of Adventurers use the same magic as that of wizards, albeit not quite as powerful. Nonetheless, they are a force to be reckoned with in battle; their intelligence is their most fearsome weapon.

Bonus Cantrip
At 3rd Level, you learn an additional Wizard cantrip.

Arcane Enlightenment
When you first choose this archetype at 3rd Level, your spellcasting ability is now either Intelligence or Charisma, whichever one is higher.

Additionally, you gain additional spells upon reaching certain level thresholds as seen in the table below, but these additional spells must be from the Wizard spell list.

Class Level — Spell Level
3rd — two 1st-Level
5th — two 2nd-Level
9th — two 3rd-Level
13th — one 4th-Level
17th — one 5th-Level

Doublecast
By 6th Level, you’ve learned how to two spells in quick succession. After casting a spell with a casting time of up to 1 action, you may cast another spell immediately after as a bonus action. To do so, you must have Spell Slots for both spells, both of which must be of 3rd Level or lower.

Potent Spellcasting
Starting at 10th Level, you add your Intelligence/Charisma modifier to the damage you deal with any spell.

Second-Nature Magic
At 15th Level, choose one 1st-Level and one 2nd-Level spell that you know. These two spells can be cast at their lowest level without spending a Spell Slot.


Arcane Enlightenment is fine. I like the idea of cribbing spells from wizard, so much so that even if you come up with a class-specific spell list, this feature should still take wizard spells only - not even spells from your own list! (If you do have an "adventurer spell list", you should specify in this feature that any spell you pick that is not on the adventurer spell list is nonetheless an adventurer spell for "you".)

Having said that, all Arcane Enlightenment does is give you some extra spells and lets you fiddle with your spellcasting ability. It's not an archetype-defining feature. It doesn't actually change how you play or let you do something that other archetypes can't - it just means you have more options with your limited number of spell slots.

So you do need some sort of archetype-defining feature at 3rd level.

I'm gonna say Doublecast gets a hard nope from me. It's waaaay too overpowered for 6th level. For starters, it overrules the RAW on casting multiple spells:


Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. [Emphasis mine.]

It's also much better than the sorcerer Quickened Spell metamagic, which also uses a limited resource (sorcery points), whereas Doublecast you can just do until you run out of spell slots.

If you really want to keep this feature in terms of allowing you to cast two spells of up to 3rd level on your turn, I think it would need to be the capstone of this archetype and usable once in between long rests (mayyyybe once between short or long rests).

Potent Spellcasting is also overpowered. By way of comparison:
- Clerics get to add their Wisdom modifier to cantrip damage only starting at 8th level
- Evoker wizards get to add their Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of an evocation spell they cast starting at 10th level
- Draconic sorcerer get to add their Charisma modifier to one damage roll of a spell that deals damage matching their draconic affinity

The way this feature is written, it adds your spellcasting ability modifier to all damage rolls, of any spell you cast, without limit.

So this feature definitely needs toning down or replacing. If you keep it and tone it down, replace "Intelligence/Charisma" with "spellcasting ability".

Second-Nature Magic is fine if you restrict it to a 1st-level spell. By including a 2nd-level spell, you're duplicating the wizard's Spell Mastery feature, only this supposed "jack of all trades" dabbler is getting it three levels earlier than the supposed master of the trade.

So, there's lots of work required for this archetype:
- It needs a 3rd-level "archetype-defining" feature
- Doublecast needs replacing or needs to become the capstone feature with a usage limit to tone it down
- Potent Spellcasting needs substantial toning down or replacing
- Second-Nature Magic needs either to be toned down, or if Doublecast is moved to the 15th level feature, dispensed with

If you move Doublecast to 15th level or want to replace it, you need a new 6th-level feature as well. In that case, I might suggest either a toned-down version of Arcane Recovery, or granting a single metamagic option that you can use once in between short or long rests.



Missionary
There are many Adventurers whose wanderlust is the product of divine inspiration. While not acolyte, you nonetheless are faithful to your deity, whom has granted you a bit of their power to aid you. Whatever your cause be, you are willing to put your deity’s will above your own.

Bonus Proficiency
At 3rd Level, you gain proficiency with medium armor.

Divine Weave
When you first choose this archetype at 3rd Level, your spellcasting ability is now either Wisdom or Charisma, whichever one is higher.

Additionally, choose any one Divine Domain. You gain that domain’s 1st-Level feature and add their domain spells to your spell list, as detailed in the Cleric class description. However, you do not gain any bonus proficiencies from the Divine Domain you choose.

The levels that you gain these domain spells is detailed in the chart below:

Spell Level — Class Level
1st Level — 3rd Level
2nd Level — 5th Level
3rd Level — 9th Level
4th Level — 13th Level
5th Level — 17th Level

Channel Divinity
At 6th Level, you gain the ability to channel divine energy from your deity to fuel magic effects. You start with two such effects: Turn Undead and an effect determined by your domain. Some domains grant you additional effects as you advance in levels, as noted in the domain description.

When you use your Channel Divinity, you choose which effect to create. You must then finish a Short or Long Rest to use your Channel Divinity again.

Some Channel Divinity effects require saving throws. When you use such an effect from this class, the DC equals your Adventurer spell save DC.

Turn Undead
As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer censuring the undead. Each Undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or until it takes any damage.

A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can’t willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can’t take reactions. For its action, it can use only the Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there’s nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.

Holy Wanderer
At 10th Level, your faith allows you to delve into your god’s secrets. You gain the 6th-Level feature provided by your Divine Domain.

Divine Intervention
Beginning at 15th Level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.

Imploring your deity’s aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your Adventurer level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any Cleric spell or Cleric domain spell would be appropriate.

If your deity intervenes, you can’t use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a Long Rest.


With my suggested change to proficiencies of the base class, this archetype doesn't need to hand out any bonus proficiencies. I don't think it's appropriate for it to do so, anyway.

Divine Weave could stand to have a new name. Otherwise, it's fine. Giving you the 1st-level domain feature of the cleric domain you choose is, I think, sufficient to make this a full-on "archetype-defining" feature in a way that Arcane Enlightenment isn't.

For this archetype's Channel Divinity, I would recommend granting only the Turn Undead Channel feature, instead of getting both Turn Undead and the domain Channel. If you want to continue to give a domain's Channel effect, I would restrict it to the one clerics get at 2nd level.

Holy Wanderer and Divine Intervention are boring, and indeed I think Divine Intervention is highly inappropriate for a "jack of all trades" dabbler class. If I wanted to play with that many cleric class features, I'd play a cleric. I'd recommend coming up with some other features. Or, if you still want to crib features from other classes, I'd consider cribbing from Eldritch Knight, and at 10th level give you the ability to make a weapon attack as a bonus action after you cast a cantrip, and then maybe a paladin-esque aura at 15th level.

HamsterKun
2019-05-29, 08:41 AM
Right, which is great. But at my table it would be a useless feature through no fault of yours, as I allow casting more than one spell a turn. I'm simply asking for a suggestion to fill that feature for tables such as my own. Obviously it's great for normal tables, just wondering if you had any ideas for mine.

I try to keep my homebrew within the constraints of 5e’s RAW. Though admittedly my tables use some of the variant rules from the DMG, primarily the Spell Point Variant.

Crisis21
2019-05-29, 10:23 AM
Let's redo those numbers but give the Adventurer a 2d6 weapon, because there's nothing in the rules preventing this.

Lvl Fighter Rogue Adventurer
1 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5
2 2d6+4 11 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5
3 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5 3d6+4 14.5
4 2d6+4 11 3d6+4 14.5 3d6+4 14.5
5 4d6+8 22 4d6+4 18 6d6+8 29
6 4d6+8 22 4d6+4 18 6d6+8 29
7 4d6+8 22 5d6+4 21.5 6d6+8 29
8 4d6+8 22 5d6+4 21.5 6d6+8 29
9 4d6+8 22 6d6+4 25 7d6+8 32.5
10 4d6+8 22 6d6+4 25 7d6+8 32.5
11 7d6+12 33 2d6+4 28.5 7d6+8 32.5
12 6d6+12 33 7d6+4 28.5 7d6+8 32.5
13 6d6+12 33 8d6+4 32 8d6+8 36
14 6d6+12 33 8d6+4 32 8d6+8 36
15 6d6+12 33 9d6+4 35.5 8d6+8 36
16 6d6+12 33 9d6+4 35.5 8d6+8 36
17 6d6+12 33 10d6+4 39 9d6+8 39.5
18 6d6+12 33 10d6+4 39 9d6+8 39.5
19 6d6+12 33 11d6+4 42.5 9d6+8 39.5
20 8d6+16 44 11d6+4 42.5 9d6+8 39.5

By the stained beermug of Thor! The Adventurer is now the undisputed top dog damage dealer for the literal majority of levels, and tied or within half a point in the majority of remaining levels. Again, considering they have spells and the other two don't, that's strong. I would even opine overpowered.

Now, the Adventurer needs to use a 2d6 weapon to do this, but one of the archetypes hands this to them, and there are other ways (including Alternate Human) to have this as early as first level.

If you're going to borrow from other classes, that includes restrictions. The Rogue can't Sneak Attack with a halberd, even if they were proficient with it. I'm going to ask you to make the Opportunistic Strike at least require the weapon be used in one hand, even if you don't go all the way down to "finesse" which this 50/50 Str/Dex class might not want.

You forgot to represent the Rogue's Sneak Attack damage properly. I have corrected this for you.

moonfly7
2019-05-29, 10:33 AM
I think only subclasses should grant casting here, casting from the beginning feels like way too much for this class. Its a generalist right? Magic is definitely something you have to work towards, so it should be tied to one or two specific subclasses, not the class as a whole. not to mention that a class that casts needs dead levels, and you don't have any. so either remove the main classes casting or take out some features for dead levels.

Breccia
2019-05-29, 11:33 AM
(courtesy of the table code here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521278-Preset-Class-Tables-for-5e-Homebrew))

Sweet! Thanks!


You forgot to represent the Rogue's Sneak Attack damage properly. I have corrected this for you.

Really? Ah, damn. Thanks for the assist, it's appreciated.

HamsterKun
2019-05-29, 12:22 PM
Just a clarification; the Researcher and Missionary archetypes have where you use Intelligence/Wisdom or Charisma modifier for spellcasting, whichever one is higher. It’s one or the other, BUT NOT BOTH.

HamsterKun
2019-05-29, 02:21 PM
Okay, I revised again:

Class: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fdADCWEVNYjk0RpFDwkAnxm9vjymy9Nu0yN-dFxczw

Archetypes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/113yU-i6vrL-VFDh0yr-8BBA6kBpdCTKoqaznoWwAvg8

Figured having +8 PB at Lv20 but no Expertise would be balanced. Seriously, base +16 on a skill check...

KittenMagician
2019-05-29, 07:13 PM
there is still usage limiting that needs to be applied to certain features (namely furry of blows (4 attacks pretty much no matter what is broke)) but it is looking way better than your original. with a little further tweaking and fixing grammar errors i think this could really be something

HamsterKun
2019-05-29, 07:38 PM
there is still usage limiting that needs to be applied to certain features (namely furry of blows (4 attacks pretty much no matter what is broke)) but it is looking way better than your original. with a little further tweaking and fixing grammar errors i think this could really be something

Just changed it so that you can only use Flurry of Blows a number of times equal to your DEX modifier, regaining uses from a Short Rest.

Or should it be a Long Rest?

KittenMagician
2019-05-29, 09:03 PM
Just changed it so that you can only use Flurry of Blows a number of times equal to your DEX modifier, regaining uses from a Short Rest.

Or should it be a Long Rest?

i would look at other stat mod restricted abilities (divine sense for paladins and inspiration for bards for example) and see what they say

HamsterKun
2019-05-29, 10:39 PM
i would look at other stat mod restricted abilities (divine sense for paladins and inspiration for bards for example) and see what they say

Most of them use Long Rest, but for some reason Flurry of Blows feels more like a Short Rest ability.