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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class [Pathfinder] The Battlecaster (inspired by Magicka)



MinotaurWarblad
2019-06-23, 02:43 PM
The Battlecaster (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zd_onWrtI9MeFCV-14MnN9halTmTLfIHZEDXPkzfGIU) is a class focused on using special abilities called magicka. Most of these magicka consist of blasts of elemental energy, and are too raw and unrefined for many uses other than combat.

I want this class to remain in either Tier 2 or 3, while being fun to play and maintaining a relatively linear power curve (aside from Conjunct Magicka). The Magicka video game inspired most of these abilities, including making everything have friendly fire.
Some magicka arenít finished yet, but Iíd still like some helpful review/commentary/etc.

Discussion thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?591090-The-Battlecaster-base-class&p=23994004#post23994004).

StSword
2019-06-24, 05:40 PM
Okay, certainly interesting, but I'm not quite sure what the role intended is.

With the name, and all the armor, I picture someone who wades up to the front lines and shoots people in the face with magic.

With the BAB, hit dice, and weapon proficiencies, you get someone who like an archer, wants to be at range when they shoot someone in the face with magic.

At which point the most important bonus for armor wearing would be the ability to ignore the movement penalties for heavier armor, so that they can flee when people get close to shank the magic user, instead of dying because they end up comically wading away in heavy armor to avoid getting dogpiled.

Rynjin
2019-06-24, 05:50 PM
Seems pretty janky TBH, lot of weird design choices, most of which are mentioned above. One minor WTF was a class feature that scales at levels 1, 2...and 18.

it reminds me a lot of Lemmy's Mage class (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16O2IWGkhvfNM0bJ2yjDp_4W8Ohc-tjXIduid5Oy_zIM/edit) (we play together a lot, full disclosure, and I've seen it in action several times) but not as elegant in its execution (and I say this while thinking even THAT class has some problem areas), with a lot of very fiddly and unnecessary limitations to the at-will design.

MinotaurWarblad
2019-06-24, 06:28 PM
Edit: My responses are below, but I wanted to note that my real question for the class is if youíd allow it in a game when comparing it to Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Warmage, and most importantly, Warlock.


Okay, certainly interesting, but I'm not quite sure what the role intended is.
With the name, and all the armor, I picture someone who wades up to the front lines and shoots people in the face with magic.
With the BAB, hit dice, and weapon proficiencies, you get someone who like an archer, wants to be at range when they shoot someone in the face with magic.
At which point the most important bonus for armor wearing would be the ability to ignore the movement penalties for heavier armor, so that they can flee when people get close to shank the magic user, instead of dying because they end up comically wading away in heavy armor to avoid getting dogpiled.
Itís supposed to be a DPS caster that can take a bit of punishment. Like a warlock that has more variety, I sípose. I wanted to avoid giving it a high HD since it has no important attribute and it can wear heavy armor and shields (needs only a little Dex, so pump that Con!)
As far as getting away from an enemy, thereís a minor magicka that lets you move out of turn. That being said, I will add something in for the class to be able to short-range teleport. I completely replace walking with teleporting once its an option in the video game, so it makes sense for that to be a class feature.
Also, it depends on what you prioritize, but if you grab the advanced Force magicka and the Casting Boost minor magicka, at level 3 you can gain 3 temporary HP, a +2 deflection bonus to AC, hardness 2, and fast healing 2 (all for 1 minute) out of turn in exchange for your swift action. Pretty helpful for mixing it up in melee, Iíd say.


Seems pretty janky TBH, lot of weird design choices, most of which are mentioned above. One minor WTF was a class feature that scales at levels 1, 2...and 18.
it reminds me a lot of Lemmy's Mage class (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16O2IWGkhvfNM0bJ2yjDp_4W8Ohc-tjXIduid5Oy_zIM/edit) (we play together a lot, full disclosure, and I've seen it in action several times) but not as elegant in its execution (and I say this while thinking even THAT class has some problem areas), with a lot of very fiddly and unnecessary limitations to the at-will design.
Iíll take a look, but the reason for the limitations on the at will design is to force a little more variety. Iím aware of a particular combination that was used at my table approximately three times per combat by two different players until I added some of that in.

Domar
2019-06-24, 07:05 PM
Some neat ideas but you need to cut the jank and streamline for faster play.

The Advanced Magicka section should be rolled into the Basic Magicka section.

Force buffs should be based on caster level so you don't need to constantly recalculate them.

Stuff like bouncing beams and electricity forking for a single die are a pain and don't contribute much.

The value of multipliers like Empower, Enlarge & Extend should be fixed.

Instead of halving caster level I suggest adding a short fixed cooldown like two or three rounds. Terrain Casting could do something else like removing the cooldown or let you apply a meta feat as a free action, still a max of one without Ultimate Metamagicka.

Conjunct Magicka is way over the top and needs extensive reworking.

MinotaurWarblad
2019-06-24, 09:25 PM
Some neat ideas but you need to cut the jank and streamline for faster play.
The Advanced Magicka section should be rolled into the Basic Magicka section.
Force buffs should be based on caster level so you don't need to constantly recalculate them.
Stuff like bouncing beams and electricity forking for a single die are a pain and don't contribute much.
The value of multipliers like Empower, Enlarge & Extend should be fixed.
Instead of halving caster level I suggest adding a short fixed cooldown like two or three rounds. Terrain Casting could do something else like removing the cooldown or let you apply a meta feat as a free action, still a max of one without Ultimate Metamagicka.
Conjunct Magicka is way over the top and needs extensive reworking.
I love this answer.
1) Is the first recommendation to remove Advanced Magicka altogether?
2) I totally agree on the Force buffs, now that you point that one out I donít know why I did that one the way I did.
3) I want to keep the bouncing beams, but I can definitely trim the beam stuff down to be more streamlined.
4) Iíll set the metamagicka to be fixed values. Again, one of those things I look at and wonder what I was thinking.
5) For cooldown, do you feel the typical breath weaponís 1d4 rounds would do the trick without being too cumbersome?
6) I like the idea of Terrain Casting removing the cooldown. A lot. At will fire magicka in a volcano or the elemental plane of fire makes a LOT more sense than just a numbers boost.
7) What if Conjunct Magicka allowed one spell of 2nd level or lower for each basic magicka, and one spell of 4th level or lower for each advanced magicka? That being somewhat predicated on how the first recommendation is handled...

Domar
2019-06-24, 11:16 PM
1) I mean something like this. "A target you hit takes 1d6 cold damage per 2 caster levels, increasing to 1d6 cold damage per caster level with advanced cold, plus an additional 1d6 cold damage per 2 caster levels on a failed Fortitude saving throw." Same for range. Plus an additional bullet point for benefits that aren't direct upgrades of basic functionality.

5) Non variable, Magicka is your primary focus and you could get screwed by bad rolls, especially at low levels. Two or three rounds. Plus you should start with two basic Magicka at level one.

7) I'm thinking the Battlecaster should have a spell slot progression on it's table. Max spell level one at Battlecaster five, increasing ever three Battlecaster levels. Basically a six level caster down shifted four levels and no bonus slots.



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You also need a spell list. Spontaneous casting off most of the wizard list is problematic. Drop spell school associations and choose a small number of spells for each Magicka school for levels one to six. Look at multiple spell lists, wizards don't have much healing after all, but no discounted spell levels like the Summoners level two haste. Battlecasters get to cast the spells they have the Advanced Magicka for.

The actual spell progression will depend on how the Combination Magicka turn out.

MinotaurWarblad
2019-06-25, 11:07 PM
1) I mean something like this. "A target you hit takes 1d6 cold damage per 2 caster levels, increasing to 1d6 cold damage per caster level with advanced cold, plus an additional 1d6 cold damage per 2 caster levels on a failed Fortitude saving throw." Same for range. Plus an additional bullet point for benefits that aren't direct upgrades of basic functionality.
5) Non variable, Magicka is your primary focus and you could get screwed by bad rolls, especially at low levels. Two or three rounds. Plus you should start with two basic Magicka at level one.
7) I'm thinking the Battlecaster should have a spell slot progression on it's table. Max spell level one at Battlecaster five, increasing ever three Battlecaster levels. Basically a six level caster down shifted four levels and no bonus slots.


Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th


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1


You also need a spell list. Spontaneous casting off most of the wizard list is problematic. Drop spell school associations and choose a small number of spells for each Magicka school for levels one to six. Look at multiple spell lists, wizards don't have much healing after all, but no discounted spell levels like the Summoners level two haste. Battlecasters get to cast the spells they have the Advanced Magicka for.
The actual spell progression will depend on how the Combination Magicka turn out.
Again, I like pretty much all of this.
Not sure how I feel about making it a 6th caster though. Iíd almost rather give it a short spell list for each advanced magicka to duplicate at will.
For now, Iíll remove Conjunct Magicka from my next draft with a note for brainstorming including your ideas for it.

Thanks so much, and Iíll make sure to credit you for any ideas incorporated in the final revision (when I get there)..