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View Full Version : DM Help Voices in my head (PaladiN)



Pinjata
2019-07-03, 03:26 AM
Should Clerics/Paladins be getting some sort of mystical hints by their gods? In what form? Dreams? Voices? Seeing weirdly stacked logs in a small village?

How do you do it, playgrounders?

Psyren
2019-07-03, 11:20 AM
Many deity entries have little quirks to indicate signs of favor or displeasure; these can be used for any dedicated follower, not just paladins, and you can use these as guidelines to create such signs for deities that might not have them. For example, Iomedae shows her approval by making mundane objects briefly appear sword-like, a soft white glow briefly appearing around a follower doing something favored, or them feeling a brief magnetic pull on a weapon (usually a sword) in their possession; she goes on to express displeasure by having metal suddenly turn dull or making light sources around the subject flicker or dim.

Dreams are also fair game for checking up on a follower, particularly one who is engaged in some form of long-term heroism (which many PC paladins would be.)

The most direct way for a paladin to get a read on their next potential course of action would be with a phylactery of faithfulness.

Pinjata
2019-07-04, 05:35 AM
Great suggestions, @Psyren. Got any ideas about Chauntea, being the god in question, perhaps?

False God
2019-07-04, 09:51 AM
I typically keep it to dreams and visions, and sparingly. Unless your character is extremely high level or on a particular heady quest by your deity, I imagine most gods have little reason to "talk" to you.

If you're looking for physical manifestations one of the notes for Chauntea I recall was the sudden growing/blooming of flowers. So a character might get a vision of a town, or a field where she wants you to go, only to arrive and either witness or overhear that "Hey all the flowers in town bloomed yesterday, crazy right?"

Physical-world manifestations of godly influence are tricky and should be subtle, leading the player to have to make a decision on if the event is truly a sign, or not.

noob
2019-07-04, 10:01 AM
Keep in mind paladins does not draws their powers from their deity but instead draws power from their devotion to good.
So a paladin can worship the evil god of child murder then spend their whole life protecting children from child murderers because their power does not comes from the god of child murder at all.


I typically keep it to dreams and visions, and sparingly. Unless your character is extremely high level or on a particular heady quest by your deity, I imagine most gods have little reason to "talk" to you.

If you're looking for physical manifestations one of the notes for Chauntea I recall was the sudden growing/blooming of flowers. So a character might get a vision of a town, or a field where she wants you to go, only to arrive and either witness or overhear that "Hey all the flowers in town bloomed yesterday, crazy right?"

Physical-world manifestations of godly influence are tricky and should be subtle, leading the player to have to make a decision on if the event is truly a sign, or not.

level 9 is already a very high level and exceptional so you can start this kind of thing at level 9(or earlier if the team is supposed to be fated to save the world or some other silliness).

Mark Hall
2019-07-04, 10:11 AM
The Faiths (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17534/Demihuman-Deities-2e?affiliate_id=315505) and Avatars series (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17535/Powers--Pantheons-2e?affiliate_id=315505) for 2e (and, in the case of Chauntea, Faiths and Avatars (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17569/Faiths--Avatars-2e?affiliate_id=315505) itself) talked about the various omens a god might send to their followers.

However, I would have it be a very rare occurrence, without a direct request from the cleric. Augury and other such spells give divine spellcasters access to information from their gods; freebies should be very rare (and I'd be more inclined to say "Instead of Dust Devil, your god gave you Augury in your spells", rather than give a free omen).

False God
2019-07-04, 10:43 AM
level 9 is already a very high level and exceptional so you can start this kind of thing at level 9(or earlier if the team is supposed to be fated to save the world or some other silliness).

I didn't see the OP post their level, did I miss where they said they were level 9?

Or are you saying level 9 in your opinion is "very high level" because as far as I'm concerned it's not even half-way through the game, and less in most of my plays (both as player and DM) which often include (if not reach) epic levels.

I think this kind of thing could be done at any level. We already know you're a divine agent of your deity, I just wouldn't do it personally because it sets up the expectation for it to continue too early in the game IMO.

noob
2019-07-04, 01:08 PM
I didn't see the OP post their level, did I miss where they said they were level 9?

Or are you saying level 9 in your opinion is "very high level" because as far as I'm concerned it's not even half-way through the game, and less in most of my plays (both as player and DM) which often include (if not reach) epic levels.

I think this kind of thing could be done at any level. We already know you're a divine agent of your deity, I just wouldn't do it personally because it sets up the expectation for it to continue too early in the game IMO.

level 9 is exceptional because you get a lot of powerful abilities that can change a setting (level 5 or lower spells includes a lot of things going from the ability to create lantern archons or yet teleporting in just an action for travelling hundreds of kilometers or yet summoning creatures from varied worlds forcing them to do your bidding for days: all those are the kind of abilities that allows even a single person to change the world)
And level 9 persons are not common: even with dmg guidelines that creates higher level people for a given population than most settings you still need a big city for having level 9 people with levels in player classes and they are rare relatively to the amount of population in those towns.
Furthermore adventurers of that level frequently consume items that are worth as much as dozens of year of wage for unskilled labour.

S@tanicoaldo
2019-07-04, 01:47 PM
I think this direct person contact is more of a warlock thing.

Clerics have an impersonal subservient relationship with their deities.

Mark Hall
2019-07-04, 03:17 PM
I think this direct person contact is more of a warlock thing.

Clerics have an impersonal subservient relationship with their deities.

Not necessarily; I tend to view it more as a function of power.

Deities empower clerics. They have millions of followers, and thousands, if not tens of thousands of clerics and other divine spellcaster types.

Sub-deity entities empower warlocks. They have thousands of followers, and maybe tens of warlocks. It's a lot easier for them to give direct attention, though they also have less to offer.

S@tanicoaldo
2019-07-04, 06:35 PM
Not necessarily; I tend to view it more as a function of power.

Deities empower clerics. They have millions of followers, and thousands, if not tens of thousands of clerics and other divine spellcaster types.

Sub-deity entities empower warlocks. They have thousands of followers, and maybe tens of warlocks. It's a lot easier for them to give direct attention, though they also have less to offer.

I guess it depends on how common clerics are in your setting, but if anyone can join an order and gain powers that's waaaay too many clerics for a Non-Omniscient deity to to have a personal relationship with, how can I make sure rain and storms happen when they should if I'm doing peep talk to all my clerics issues and insecurities.

Unless you are a high ranking priest or cleric or you are doing som greta act in their name don't expect a personal answer from your deity.

That's the main perk of serving a minor-God since they have less clerics you have much closer and much more personal bound with your God.

At least that's how I roll in my games.

False God
2019-07-04, 09:31 PM
level 9 is exceptional because you get a lot of powerful abilities that can change a setting (level 5 or lower spells includes a lot of things going from the ability to create lantern archons or yet teleporting in just an action for travelling hundreds of kilometers or yet summoning creatures from varied worlds forcing them to do your bidding for days: all those are the kind of abilities that allows even a single person to change the world)
And level 9 persons are not common: even with dmg guidelines that creates higher level people for a given population than most settings you still need a big city for having level 9 people with levels in player classes and they are rare relatively to the amount of population in those towns.
Furthermore adventurers of that level frequently consume items that are worth as much as dozens of year of wage for unskilled labour.

I mean, if that's how you like to play and design your worlds that's cool. I don't typically do that. I'd really rather not argue over if 9 is "up there" or not. In some games I'm sure it is, in others is may not be. We don't really know from this thread which is which.

Psyren
2019-07-05, 02:54 AM
I guess it depends on how common clerics are in your setting, but if anyone can join an order and gain powers that's waaaay too many clerics for a Non-Omniscient deity to to have a personal relationship with, how can I make sure rain and storms happen when they should if I'm doing peep talk to all my clerics issues and insecurities.

...They're gods. Just because you couldn't keep personal tabs on that many underlings doesn't mean they can't.

Yes, some high-ranking clerics and special followers (e.g. Chosen) will get more attention, but D&D gods can (and for the good ones, do) care about every single worshiper that calls on them, even if red tape keeps them from interceding directly for all of them.

And on top of that, the PCs are special anyway. If anyone is going to get a pointed omen/sign or a replaced spell, it'll be them.


Great suggestions, @Psyren. Got any ideas about Chauntea, being the god in question, perhaps?

I don't have the 2e books that Mark mentioned, but she's pretty similar in theme to Pathfinder's LG farming deity Erastil; some of his signs of approval include unexpected mild weather, bumper crops, a crooked path straightening etc. You can use the opposite of those to indicate her displeasure, like a sudden squall, a cow drying up, or a routine/natural path suddenly becoming twisted or difficult to traverse. It would take a bit of creativity for such omens to apply to/be noticed by the PCs without causing undue discomfort to innocent NPCs of course. More dramatic signs of his disfavor include lightning strikes and transforming troublemaker followers into livestock, though he'd likely keep that sort of thing to a minimum.