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JNAProductions
2019-07-23, 07:45 PM
Idle thoughts on a sci-fi type RPG system. Brought about by this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?593307-Sci-fi-Rpgs-classes) thread. Specifically this quote, abridged slightly:


You could, in theory, have a class system that only covered combat, while everything else was handled through an amorphous point-based system - this would make sense in a game where everyone played a specific kind of combatant and classes were the equivalent of combat styles or equipment specializations. In a futuristic space setting type, this would be logical if, for example, all the characters were space marines and you might have a grenadier class and a sniper class and a heavy armor class and comms specialist class and so forth, but these could be completely unrelated to the roles the characters play when the armor comes off and any character could have any assortment of secondary interests (admittedly they would probably specialize and you might end up with every character having a de facto secondary class, but at least you could mix and match).

So, in terms of combat classes, my initial thoughts are:

About what you'd expect. A buff class designed to help keep people on their feet.
More general techy-guy than the Drone Expert. Possibly doubles as a demolitions expert, or drone expert.
Big dude with big armor. The juggernaut, the one who tanks.
Long-ranged fire support.
The life scientist tinkerer type person.

I think I might kinda want to pattern this after 4E D&D, because I do recall that system being pretty good for tactical combat.

sandmote
2019-07-24, 01:08 AM
Okay, this sounds like something fun to do.

For a base system, I'd add a 3.5e style class leveling system onto a 4e style battlemap. Maybe with the 5e d&d element where martial classes can add effects onto a hit (the drone expect could 'overcharge' a drone's attack as an immediate action, for example).

I still need to try 4e, but it reads as having a far more tactical map. Everything works off the grid, which makes it easier to plan out area effects, movement, and positioning.

However, 3.5e's class system is more concrete. You get certain abilities at certain level/amount of skill and these scale on the table. Much easier to follow, and you're setting up more concrete class features. However, I wouldn't restrict cross class features nearly as much, just so players aren't pushed as severely toward certain builds.

4e replacing weapon attacks with special abilities works for its caster classes and psions, but I've heard complaints about martial users automatically swing a weapon. 5e's solution grants benefits that can be chose once the player brain kicks back in (as opposed to having to replace the weapon attack players who like martial classes are used to).

Maybe the basic structure could have the party beam down to a planet? Long rests could be done by beaming back and short rests by resting on the surface. The things most fantasy systems do with spell slots could then be replaced with gadgets: single use gadgets work like prepared spell slots, and multi use gadgets could be usable indefinitely or X times before you need to refill them during a rest.

I'd suggest listing out basic themes, and then having different classes built to focus on two or three of them (themed in a way that goes together). Having a class be able to do a little of something else (meat shield or trap user having minor healing, for example) isn't an issue, but I think this makes it easier to build out options for a system.

Medic: buffs + in combat healing

Drone Expert: minionmancy + minion removal

Engineer: Traps + Construction + Area of Effect attack.

Marine: Melee damage + front line attack.

Sniper: Sight + traps + targeted attack

My additional suggestions:
grows body parts and biological enchanced pets.

out of combat healing + minionmancy
Uses energy fields/blasts to interfere with enemy equipment

traps + debuffer + control
Dedicated to keeping allies alive, granting cover and other defensive bonuses

meat shield + buffs + control
uses a minor teleportation device to get in, do damage, and get out.

targeted attack + travel
Although these depend slightly on the system being softer sci fi than your initial classes.

JNAProductions
2019-07-24, 09:46 AM
Xenobiologist, while a neat concept, not sure I'm sold on the name/fluff. A beastmaster/zookeeper type class is definitely something I can get behind (similar to the Drone Expert, though) but there are sufficient differences between the living and robotic that there should be space for both.

Ion Charger is a great idea.

Shield Bearer I think would work better as a subset of Marine.

Teleporter I don't think I'd want. Teleportation can cause a lot of headaches.

Thanks for the input, though!

sandmote
2019-07-24, 10:50 AM
Xenobiologist, while a neat concept, not sure I'm sold on the name/fluff. A beastmaster/zookeeper type class is definitely something I can get behind (similar to the Drone Expert, though) but there are sufficient differences between the living and robotic that there should be space for both.

Ion Charger is a great idea.

Shield Bearer I think would work better as a subset of Marine.

Teleporter I don't think I'd want. Teleportation can cause a lot of headaches.

Thanks for the input, though!I agree on the name for a Xenobiologist. A "Xenobiology" system for changes genes, growing body parts, and a beastmaster type would probably work better, although I'm not sure about a proper name for a beastmaster type specifically.

Mechanically, I was thinking of the Shield Bearer as a Barbarian and the Marine as a Fighter. A shield bearer having better HP, Personal Shielding, and tactical defensive options as opposed to a marine's better tactical offensive options and agro.

I thought of this after my previous post, but a cloaking system might fit better for what I was trying to describe. That way you'd still have to walk, but you'd get bonuses against being spotted and hit. "Cloaker," for the thematic change, and it would be easier to set up medic/cloaker multiclasses than cleric/rogue ones.

JNAProductions
2019-07-24, 07:33 PM
I found the name!

Biologist. It's so obvious! :P (Or possibly Biotechnician.)

ngilop
2019-07-24, 08:25 PM
1) Biotechnician sounds cooler and more apt to a game than biologist, which already has a real world definition people know. You say "you can be a biologist' and people are gonna be like "So I study plants and animals?" Pass." Call it a biotechnician and people understand what it means in the most vague of senses "SO I do some kinda cool science-y stuff with life forms? Cool"

3) while 4th edition has its... cons. The system it offered was very sound and reasonable for a rpg game mechanic rulesets. I actually posted that quandry a few years ago and banged out a bare bones setting outline and a handful of pages of notes before realizing that it is a lot of work and I have school I need to finish first. Now I got me a job that does not lend itself well to hours of free time.

4) I agree shield bearer should be a sub class or specialization of marine. the separation of it due to there being barbarian and fighter in 3rd (which never should have happened in the first place) should hold no bearing to a sci fi setting or game set. I think the same for sniper too actuall. Anything dealing with combat should be under the marine with a handful of specialities. The 'collossus'-dude with a heavy power armor get-up; 'ranger' -chick with a focus on combat in and of itself, a jack-of-all trades in combat with a few self buffs to give them unique abilities, 'sniper' -chick with a focus on stealth and that one deadly shot 'commander' dude with the same all around decent ness of the ranger, but group buffs instead of self buffs

5) I'd replace the sniper with pilot

6) drone expert should be a sub class or specialization of engineer, you can have the drone guy, the hacker guy, and the demolitions chick all in that same grouping

7) toss in something like a diplomat or envoy for the class that has some combat ability but shines in social encounters ( I like envoy better myself)

JNAProductions
2019-07-24, 09:08 PM
So, the idea is that these classes form your COMBAT roles, not your out of combat roles.

Example, the Marine could easily be the diplomat as well, or you could all have ranks in Diplomacy or whatever.

And I'd rather not do piloting as part of the gameplay. It tends to make the focus about the pilot and the ship, and harder to focus on the other PCs.

Squire Doodad
2019-07-24, 09:33 PM
And I'd rather not do piloting as part of the gameplay. It tends to make the focus about the pilot and the ship, and harder to focus on the other PCs.

I take it the inter-stellar random encounters, instead of being "a Gronohevian Deathcruiser comes out of Ludicrous Speed and opens fire!" is "a Gronohevian Deathcruiser has attempted to board you, you have 5 minutes before they get on the deck!"

JNAProductions
2019-07-24, 09:43 PM
I take it the inter-stellar random encounters, instead of being "a Gronohevian Deathcruiser comes out of Ludicrous Speed and opens fire!" is "a Gronohevian Deathcruiser has attempted to board you, you have 5 minutes before they get on the deck!"

Well, likely you'd interact with them BEFORE they board. Diplomacy and all.

But, since this is still early musings, I'm not totally sure yet. I welcome ideas, though!

ngilop
2019-07-24, 09:49 PM
So, the idea is that these classes form your COMBAT roles, not your out of combat roles.

Example, the Marine could easily be the diplomat as well, or you could all have ranks in Diplomacy or whatever.

And I'd rather not do piloting as part of the gameplay. It tends to make the focus about the pilot and the ship, and harder to focus on the other PCs.

Ah, OK. sounds cool!

I only mentioned the pilot because a sizable chunk of people are going to say 'oh cool sci-fi can I be the pilot? I totally want to be Walsh!" But, I do see your point. it is a very fine balancing point.

JNAProductions
2019-07-24, 09:50 PM
Ah, OK. sounds cool!

I only mentioned the pilot because a sizable chunk of people are going to say 'oh cool sci-fi can I be the pilot? I totally want to be Walsh!" But, I do see your point. it is a very fine balancing point.

Who's Walsh?

And I'm leaning towards possibly a Dune/40k Style Navigator system, for interplanetary and further travel.

Squire Doodad
2019-07-24, 10:07 PM
Well, likely you'd interact with them BEFORE they board. Diplomacy and all.

But, since this is still early musings, I'm not totally sure yet. I welcome ideas, though!

If you have no teleportation but rather pods sent to board people or something (think Star Trek:Beyond) then if you choose to fire on an apparently hostile ship instead of trying to talk things out then they will be able to send fewer pods out, aside from a general "ship durability" aspect that causes a self-destruct in 5 rounds if it runs out.

Let's say the Deathcruiser that is part of a nation that is hostile towards your ship's associated nation pops up on your way to Planetsburg. You could have three general options (fine tuned as needed) in the Flee, Attack and Converse choices. If its not plot-critical, then flip a coin/roll a die to see if the ship hails the players (roll it anyways so they don't automatically realize it). Conversing would allow you to get a better idea of the situation, as well as what should be done. If you attempt to converse with a LG Nation's Ship and a horde of moth-things appear and screech incoherently, the best thing may be to open fire. On the other hand, it could be useful for just gathering intel, worldbuilding, and getting quests without resorting to a wretched hive of any sort.

The idea from what I can tell is to make it so that the players do stuff in space, but the focus would be on the people on board as opposed to just the pilots. Let's say the ship is in autopilot and there are plenty of reinforcements and backups that make it so that in the event that the relevant area explodes, the ship will either maintain course or default to the nearest safe location (maybe the players can influence which one they want to go to?) and in general "we gotta switch to manual!" isn't going to be a daily occurrence.

Not sure how coherent that is, I'm kind of rambling here.

sandmote
2019-07-24, 11:20 PM
1) Biotechnician sounds cooler and more apt to a game than biologist, which already has a real world definition people know. You say "you can be a biologist' and people are gonna be like "So I study plants and animals?" Pass." Call it a biotechnician and people understand what it means in the most vague of senses "SO I do some kinda cool science-y stuff with life forms? Cool" I third Biotechnician, although I suspect it's already been decided.


4) I agree shield bearer should be a sub class or specialization of marine. the separation of it due to there being barbarian and fighter in 3rd (which never should have happened in the first place) should hold no bearing to a sci fi setting or game set. I think the same for sniper too actuall. Anything dealing with combat should be under the marine with a handful of specialities. The 'collossus'-dude with a heavy power armor get-up; 'ranger' -chick with a focus on combat in and of itself, a jack-of-all trades in combat with a few self buffs to give them unique abilities, 'sniper' -chick with a focus on stealth and that one deadly shot 'commander' dude with the same all around decent ness of the ranger, but group buffs instead of self buffs
...
6) drone expert should be a sub class or specialization of engineer, you can have the drone guy, the hacker guy, and the demolitions chick all in that same groupingI'll drop the shield bearer specifically, but a lot of this depends on how specialized each class is.

The sniper could merely have a bonus with long range weapons, or they could have a bunch of abilities tied to surveying the battlefield. Denying an enemy movement as a reaction, warning allies of enemies they can't see, setting up traps to cover their rear, and so on. In the latter case, a full sniper class gives you room to fit those abilities in.

The same goes for the drone expert, which might have one or two drones following them as a specialization, or have a pile of abilities they can manage using drones, including minor hacking abilities, bonuses to attacks, and utility bonuses. It would probably be helpful for general design to have a planned type of class system, although I think this is still in the stage of cataloging what sort of things the base system should be able to handle.

This is part of the reason I suggested having classes focus on two to three different things related to combat. Specializations can lean into one, the other, a balance, or use


And I'm leaning towards possibly a Dune/40k Style Navigator system, for interplanetary and further travel.
I think anything that treats travel as going from point A to point B works best, especially with the focus on individual party members. Then add a system for Negative Space Wedgies (or other random events) during travel, so travel isn't completely predictable.

Although you could have classes assigned to a system on the ship. That might solve the problem of what each person is doing when they aren't on planet/acting as a party.


If you have no teleportation but rather pods sent to board people or something (think Star Trek:Beyond) then if you choose to fire on an apparently hostile ship instead of trying to talk things out then they will be able to send fewer pods out, aside from a general "ship durability" aspect that causes a self-destruct in 5 rounds if it runs out. I mentioned allowing star trek style beaming before, and this was part of my reasoning. Alternatively, different ships could have different systems for this. Pods vs. smaller ships vs. a large teleporter, for example.

ngilop
2019-07-24, 11:44 PM
Who's Walsh?

And I'm leaning towards possibly a Dune/40k Style Navigator system, for interplanetary and further travel.

Walsh is the pilot from Firefly/Serenity.

lightningcat
2019-07-27, 11:03 AM
Away from my books, but iirc Fragged Empire had each character take on a ship role and a personal role. With only 1 or 2 overlapping, medic and engineer I think, but even those can be split. The split allows the Captain to be the gun guy in personal combat, or maybe the negotiator.