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Grug
2007-10-12, 08:24 PM
There's a player in my group who really grates on my nerves. He is a total rules lawyer, not very compatible with my desire to not look into it too much if it detracts fun (I'm a very benevolent DM). All to often eh feels like he's being "short changed" by not getting enough items or XP. Sometimes he's right, but I still don't like how he's obsessed with combat and feels that he "Deserves" what the books promise him. When I tell him It's my decision, and not the book's, he gets mad and goes to brood or flee to a forum to get rulings in his favor (CharOps), then rubs it in my face.

But that's just background. One rule he keeps bugging me about is Prepared Actions. I tell him that you can use prepared actions even outside of combat as long as you can percieve an enemy or expect something to happen, although it starts combat once you do. I've read a commentary about initiative in Dragon (which, I keep telling him, is 100% official DnD) that suggests that initiative should be rolled when the players do something aggresive, not just when the monsters show up (although if the players decide to immediately act hostile you roll like normal). He says you can't prepare actions outside combat because it doesn't say in the books. Then he says he must be able to prepare an action to automatically react to any threat he finds, which is completely broken.

So tell me, can you prepare an action outside of combat? Like if a rogue looks down on some goblins and readies to stab the one that gets closest?

Jasdoif
2007-10-12, 08:27 PM
You're the DM. What you say goes.

That aside, I think preparing combat actions before combat begins is more along the lines of getting to act in the surprise round then actually readying an action.

goat
2007-10-12, 08:34 PM
Yeah, point him at the zeroth law of D&D.

"There are many rules, ignore them whenever necessary."

Hadrian_Emrys
2007-10-12, 08:34 PM
"Rocks fall. Reroll your character in a game someone else runs."

Grug
2007-10-12, 08:34 PM
Yeah, but apparently quoting the Zeroth Law of DnD isn't enough to discourage him.

Jasdoif
2007-10-12, 08:41 PM
Yeah, but apparently quoting the Zeroth Law of DnD isn't enough to discourage him.Frankly, he can get over it. Inform him that you are the DM, it's in your authority to make any decision you see fit, and no amount of people or books that disagree with your decisions can change this.

If he wants to run a game his way, he can certainly run a game of his own. Heck, he can simply quit playing in your game if he likes. He's in no position to dictate how your game is run.

bosssmiley
2007-10-12, 08:53 PM
<trim>

So tell me, can you prepare an action outside of combat? Like if a rogue looks down on some goblins and readies to stab the one that gets closest?

Non-issue. :smallannoyed:

Of course you can prepare an action contingent on another's action prior to combat - that's how you get a free action in the surprise round. Of course, you can't prepare an action against a condition you aren't fully aware of without giving the DM free rein to do over a character. Jumpiness, paranoia and going off half-cocked are the integral price of 'constant readiness'.

Player: "I prepare an action to shoot the first person to come down the alley."
DM: "Ok Mr Paranoid. Roll to-hit. Uh-huh. Roll damage. Uh-huh. As your shot lands dead centre on the rushing humanoid shape you realise you've just shot a (Pelorite nun/child/your buddy/vital NPC/...)".

If he wants to add contingencies to his prepared action to avoid friendly fire incidents then that starts to grow beyond the scope of single prepped actions and into the realms of several contested hide, silent move, spot, listen, etc rolls over the course of several rounds.

As for the player: another non-issue. Suggest that he stops trying to win every argument if he wants to game with you again. If he still wants to rules-lawyer, let him go find some like-minded rules lawyers. Both of you have to realise that give-and-take works both ways in a social game like D&D: if one of you isn't having fun, some element of the equation needs to change.

Grug
2007-10-12, 09:10 PM
Yeah. I already tried going to one of his games. He planned it to go from level 1 to 70 :smalleek: , but that's besdies the point. I wasn't having a good time, he would be mad if I'm trying to roleplay (trip a raving commoner to calm him down. Take a scale of a trogdolyte captive as a souveneir) and he'd use it as ammo to Rebuke me and started citing how I was ruining the game for everyone else (not really). He even did the same thing in a third friend's game. So I left his game, but now he's berating me about that, saying that every character I make is a cruel selfish bastard & i'll never play DnD again. Keep in mind that although I'm fairly experienced as a DM, I have been a player very, very little.

He keep telling me electronically he's done with being my friend, giving fancy titles to his complaints like "Last farewell". One time he also sent me about a dozen e-mails filled with nothing but the word "*****" over and voer to the word limit because I asked him to stop being argumentative.

Winterwind
2007-10-12, 09:14 PM
Also, I would suggest trying to explain to him that the application of rules is not the point of the game.
Fun is.

And interruptions in order to discuss rules detract more from the fun than ignoring the rules would.

EDIT: Whoa.
Okay, sounds more like this is not an issue of a guy who has different ideas about playing RPGs but rather of a guy being a complete a-hole. In that case, I think it might be wiser to stop having any contact with him.

BRC
2007-10-12, 09:16 PM
Yeah. I already tried going to one of his games. He planned it to go from level 1 to 70 :smalleek: , but that's besdies the point. I wasn't having a good time, he would be mad if I'm trying to roleplay (trip a raving commoner to calm him down. Take a scale of a trogdolyte captive as a souveneir) and he'd use it as ammo to Rebuke me and started citing how I was ruining the game for everyone else (not really). He even did the same thing in a third friend's game. So I left his game, but now he's berating me about that, saying that every character I make is a cruel selfish bastard & i'll never play DnD again. Keep in mind that although I'm fairly experienced as a DM, I have been a player very, very little.

He keep telling me electronically he's done with being my friend, giving fancy titles to his complaints like "Last farewell". One time he also sent me about a dozen e-mails filled with nothing but the word "*****" over and voer to the word limit because I asked him to stop being argumentative.
He has made his intention clear, put a spamguard against him, change the time of your games and don't tell him, and go to the movies during the time he thinks your games are.
In-Game, It is revealed that his character changed his identity after slaughtering a village of adorable LG orphans (yes a whole village), and is arrested forever.

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-12, 09:17 PM
Seems like a problematic guy. Not a rules lawyer, but an idiot. And you said he uses the charop to prove his points.

Fine. Drop Pun-Pun on him, have Punny cast a superior timestop (lasts as long as caster wants, can bring one creature per three levels with him, no save), then reform body (basically, allows a body and soul to reform after death for as long as the caster wants with no penalty), then start flinging every spell that causes pain and horror at him. Tell him this is what you feel when he rule lawyers, that he is trying for Pun-Pun, and that he is a tremendous pain. And that, should he continue with his massive rules lawyering, you'll sick Pun-Pun on him every session. If he tries to refute you, say Punny is perfectly legal, and that he should look at the charop boards. Poetic Justice :smallamused: .

Chineselegolas
2007-10-12, 09:21 PM
I think you can't partially because the Bloodhound class from CAdv has a extraordinary ability to allow them ready an action outside initiative. What would be the point of this ability if everyone could do it all the time?

Foeofthelance
2007-10-12, 09:29 PM
I think you can't partially because the Bloodhound class from CAdv has a extraordinary ability to allow them ready an action outside initiative. What would be the point of this ability if everyone could do it all the time?

I think the difference lies in readying an action outside of initiative, and telling the DM you're going to ready an action to trigger a surprise round at the beginning of combat.

Grug
2007-10-12, 10:29 PM
That's the exact example the player used to try and prove me wrong. And then he wrote "Have fun with your DMing career" right under it. The point of that ability is that you can prepare the action 10 minutes ahead of combat, which is quite alot. I imagine that the bloodhound prepares to charge the prey when it gets in range.

BTW, if I had to choose between CharOps and Giantitp, I'll be staying in the playground where fun is actually important.

The biggest thing about the guy is that I was tired of his playstyle, but I guess I didn't want to tell him directly, since we see eachother often and have known eachother for a while. He's been getting more and more ornery, probably because he has parents that force him to overachieve (2 AP classes, practices an Instrument for hours every day, works out all the time, and a mentality that considers anything less than a 98 awful). He seems to start thinking that DnD is another form of work (funny, because he tells me he'd rather die than play an MMO, literally). I was having fun roleplaying and he actually says "Grug! Can you shut up so we can get something done???" He's obsessed with Character Optomization, and insists that the only combo that's "cheese" is a class with damage in the thousands or infinite. He played a druid morphed into a Fleshraker dinosaur, insisting it wasn't cheese, then 3 months later admited it was.

Ugh, I need sleep.

mockingbyrd7
2007-10-12, 11:01 PM
Explain that they're guidelines, not rules, and that they can be bent and twisted for the overall fun factor of the game. If he can't deal with the fact that the game is supposed to be fun for everyone, that's kind of too bad.

Eighth_Seraph
2007-10-12, 11:01 PM
This seems to be a social problem more than anything. I like to think that most problems between people can be solved by being frank and honest with each other. I imagine it would also help if you took him out for some ice cream, just to demonstrate what it means to chill out. No pun intended.

I've met a few people like that, too, and thus far, all of them are just affection-starved and in need of someone that will admit that they're as annoying as they are and hang out with them anyway. If your mental stability can't handle that kind of strain, then it may indeed be best to cut ties with this player. It just depends on whether you care enough about him to sacrifice lots of time and lots of effort getting him to understand why there's an issue. It's completely your choice in the end.

I sincerely apologize if this post sets off a chain of contradictory psychological analysis of the situation and subsequent advice into the thread.

Wooter
2007-10-12, 11:22 PM
My advice is to harm him physically.

Leon
2007-10-13, 12:53 AM
There's a player in my group who really grates on my nerves. He is a total rules lawyer, not very compatible with my desire to not look into it too much if it detracts fun (I'm a very benevolent DM). All to often eh feels like he's being "short changed" by not getting enough items or XP. Sometimes he's right, but I still don't like how he's obsessed with combat and feels that he "Deserves" what the books promise him. When I tell him It's my decision, and not the book's, he gets mad and goes to brood or flee to a forum to get rulings in his favor (CharOps), then rubs it in my face.

As others have said your the Groundstate of the game - what he thinks should be is illrelevent. if he can simply not accept that this is how things are then he should seek a different game

Vuzzmop
2007-10-13, 12:57 AM
Sounds like an absolute d-bag. The answer is simple, tell mim that you are the DM, and that you simply don't give a rats what one person thinks about your universe.

Solo
2007-10-13, 01:07 AM
Lay down the law. Tell him to accept your authority or leave.

If he tries to harass you, retaliate in the appropriate manner.

If he sends you emails with obscenities in them, forward them to his parents, for example.

Heck, just froward everything insulting or problematic he's sent to you to his parents now, with a formal complaint.

If you no longer have the evidence, amass a list of complaints and sent it to the parents.



Be creative, but try to resolve the situation via diplomacy first.


Let us know how it goes.

Alleine
2007-10-13, 01:43 AM
My advice is to harm him physically.

Seconded. Preferable methods include, but are not limited to: shotguns, crowbars, d4's, fire, lots of fire, even more fire, and anything with the fire descriptor.

Yeygresh
2007-10-13, 02:11 AM
He keep telling me electronically he's done with being my friend, giving fancy titles to his complaints like "Last farewell". One time he also sent me about a dozen e-mails filled with nothing but the word "*****" over and voer to the word limit because I asked him to stop being argumentative.

He obviously has either a severe anger problem, or he's very, very immature. He'll probably end up trying to physically harm you; tell him that he's no longer welcome to your sessions. If he is an adult, and he does not leave you alone after that, get a restraining order.

herrhauptmann
2007-10-13, 02:25 AM
Grug how old is this kid? Seriously.
If you have caller id, don't answer when he calls. Set an email filter to send his message straight to the trash bin. Tell him he's not allowed in when he comes to your house.
If he starts threatening you, or tries to force his way into your door, then contact parents or police as necessary.

He's an immature little b!t** despite his overachieving obsessions. What do the rest of the players in your group have to say about these arguments between you and him anyway?

The Glyphstone
2007-10-13, 08:25 AM
This is starting to sound like a bizzare mirror-universe version of LankyBugger and PsychoDM - I'm jumping in on the "just stop noticing he exists and exclude him from games" camp...you don't want bricks thrown through your window.:smallconfused:

Kaelaroth
2007-10-13, 12:51 PM
This is starting to sound like a bizzare mirror-universe version of LankyBugger and PsychoDM - I'm jumping in on the "just stop noticing he exists and exclude him from games" camp...you don't want bricks thrown through your window.:smallconfused:


He's right - it does somewhat. Use blue kryptonite - that kills Bizarro. or just tell the bastard to calm down, and follow your rules, or get lost!!! :smallmad:

goat
2007-10-13, 01:07 PM
Actually, this sounds like a perfect chance to try out a few template-augmented versions of That Damned Crab.

prufock
2007-10-13, 01:08 PM
Yeah. I already tried going to one of his games. He planned it to go from level 1 to 70 :smalleek: , but that's besdies the point. I wasn't having a good time, he would be mad if I'm trying to roleplay (trip a raving commoner to calm him down. Take a scale of a trogdolyte captive as a souveneir) and he'd use it as ammo to Rebuke me and started citing how I was ruining the game for everyone else (not really). He even did the same thing in a third friend's game. So I left his game, but now he's berating me about that, saying that every character I make is a cruel selfish bastard & i'll never play DnD again. Keep in mind that although I'm fairly experienced as a DM, I have been a player very, very little.

He keep telling me electronically he's done with being my friend, giving fancy titles to his complaints like "Last farewell". One time he also sent me about a dozen e-mails filled with nothing but the word "*****" over and voer to the word limit because I asked him to stop being argumentative.

My advice is to take him up on his offer, and stop inviting him to your games. He sounds like a childish jerk.

Fishies
2007-10-13, 01:54 PM
If he sends you emails with obscenities in them, forward them to his parents, for example.

Heck, just froward everything insulting or problematic he's sent to you to his parents now, with a formal complaint.

If you no longer have the evidence, amass a list of complaints and send it to the parents.

Seconded!!

Crow
2007-10-13, 02:04 PM
If he sends you emails with obscenities in them, forward them to his parents, for example.

Heck, just froward everything insulting or problematic he's sent to you to his parents now, with a formal complaint.

If you no longer have the evidence, amass a list of complaints and sent it to the parents.

I wholeheartedly endorse this measure, and now that it has been seconded, I propose that we put the measure to a vote.

Ralfarius
2007-10-13, 02:06 PM
Quickly duck sideways, dodge the claw, then take him out with a spinning back kick.

Jade_Tarem
2007-10-13, 02:21 PM
Quickly duck sideways, dodge the claw, then take him out with a spinning back kick.

I wish I had taken this option. Instead I went with option B: Take the claw full in the face, roll on the ground, and die.

On topic, however: Having read through some of the other posts, it's pretty clear that this is no longer a gaming issue. You have on your hands someone who just wants to be contrary and demeaning, and keeps coming back to you because he knows that you'll argue with him. Just stop taking his ****.

Take that suggestion of forwarding all his e-mails (the ones with the bad content) to his friends, his family, his bosses, his teachers, and any girls he might like. Then, block him from your e-mail box, your phones, and just throw away any stuff he sends you by mail (note: check any packages for a ticking noise before moving them). Don't respond to anything he sends or answer the door if he comes to visit. Don't play in any of his games or let him play in any of yours. If he persists in bothering you, get a restraining order.

It shouldn't take too long for you to fix his problem as it relates to you. Eventually he has to learn that he can't always have it his way.

Grug
2007-10-13, 03:51 PM
I suppose I should clarify a bit.

I'm not running any game right now. The previous one I had over the summer was a really great Comedy campaign, which unfortnately had to stop near the end due to 2 of the players going to college. This left behind the player in Question, we'll call him Archie, a girl who's pretty absentminded, and a kid that's also a rules lawyer, but a less aggressive kind. We'll call him Billy. I told Archie I didn't want him in my next game due to a difference in playstyles (he wants to hack and slash, I prefer exploration).

Like I said before, I wasn't having fun in a game Billy was running, mostly because Billy was awful at description and whenever I wanted to explore in the game world (like getting passed a boulder in a logical way, instead of doing a DM poof) Archie would scream at me saying I was ruining the game and wasting his time. So I told them I wouldn't be coming any more.

I suppose he has a little justification. Archie tried starting the aformentioned game, and I was a player for the first time in a while. It was okay, nice plot, but whenever I tried to do something interesting or act in character he'd stop me or scold me IC. I was getting more and more disenchanted. So when he sent a party of 1st leve agianst a cleric with vile spells and 24 AC, I gave up and Fled in character. Ever since then he accuses me of always playing characters who are selfish bastards, when all I want is a little respect.

A final note, Archie accuses me of Ruining his game by leaving, because in his world DnD CANNOT be played with less than 4 players, no exceptions at all. This kid is just messed up.

Thanks for letting me vent about this.

Solo
2007-10-13, 04:22 PM
I wholeheartedly endorse this measure, and now that it has been seconded, I propose that we put the measure to a vote.

Can I vote for my own suggestion?

ChaosDefender24
2007-10-13, 05:05 PM
Hi, I'm his "friend" and I'm here to clear up this slander and trash.

Let's handle this from post to post.

First, I did used to get peeved at him because he kept underpowering our party with weak items so that we'd all get killed (Barbarian with mundane armor and a + 1 weapon at level 7) so I was a bit of a stickler about it after that so that it wouldn't ruin the game again.

As for Zeroth, I happily pointed out that we are arguing over the rules in the book, not whatever the DM happens to houserule. Reasonable?

Although he did trip a commoner down to calm him down, that wasn't what pissed me (and the rest of the group) off that session. I'm not going to slander the hell out of him on this forum, but all I'm going to say is that it involved everyone at the table practically screaming at him and him ditching the party in a tough spot. That's what got me mad. As for the troglodyte the troglodyte was getting really pissed that he was getting his scale taken off and so started attacking the party, making the fight harder. Then Grug attempted to throw a grenade-like arrow at the floor so that we'd all be damaged. That's what got me mad.

I did indeed say I'm done being friends with him, except it was to his face during gym class. I never sent such e-mails to him, though, but I did spam our private, 4-person forum with profanities at one point to get back at them for being annoying. But it was just in fun and I stopped when they really asked me to.

I guess I know for sure he's tired of my playstyle now. My parents only forced me to take 1 AP. I practice bass for several hours a day on my own accord because I'm good at it and it's relaxing. I don't have time to work out frequently anymore. I think I got only one grade higher than a 98 this school year and I'm fine with it. I get B's in Spanish and I'm cool with it.

D&D is not like work, it's where I blow off steam, but I don't like it when his form of "role-playing" that tends to disrupt absolutely everything gets in the way. I screamed that after he had wasted a fair amount of time doing so. I did not literally mean it when I said that I'd rather die than play a MMO. I am not obsessed with CharOps, but I think it's fun to optimize and I try to incorporate some of that into my characters so that they don't suck. I admittedly have a looser definition of cheese than most (it starts at Cheater of Mystra and Binder/Legacy Championing your Hellfire Warlock), and I have definitely never said that the fleshraker is cheese.

I've already stated that his acting in character often disrupts the flow of the game and makes it less fun for everyone. When he left the game it had 3 people in it, and he reduced it to 2, which all of us thought wouldn't work out well.

No comment about ditching the party in the face of danger. The party was level 2, and it won without real incident when the fighter split notwithstanding the high AC.

I guess I deserve to be set on fire.

Solo
2007-10-13, 05:10 PM
For us, this is a he said/she said scenario.

It is nice to hear your side of things, but now tell me, who are we to believe?


Look, you two obviously have issues with each other. Work it out in person, instead of wasting time on this forum or something.

I suggest you two acknowledge that your play styles are incompatible and never play with each other again,

ChaosDefender24
2007-10-13, 05:12 PM
Luckily we have been taking up on your suggestion for quite some time. Meh, at least now you all don't definitely want me dead.

Solo
2007-10-13, 05:13 PM
That's wonderful.

goat
2007-10-13, 05:18 PM
Actually, no. Never mind. I agree with the above. Your playing styles are obviously just completely incompatible.

The_Evil_One
2007-10-13, 06:07 PM
Hey. I'm "Billy". Some stuff:

The rock incident: The way the party ended up moving the rock was by rolling it away. Ooh, DM poof.

The troglodyte: The PCs had subdued it. As it was walking back, his character (CN), pulled out one of its scales. I gave Grug the opportunity to apologize to the troglodyte. He sad no. He instead chose to throw the dagger. "Archie" attacked (attack of opportunity) him, which I disagreed with, to prevent him from exploding the party. We ended up "that didn't happen"ing the entire thing, and proceeded to have an interesting fight against teleporting ninjas.

The character that ran away, "Iron Bear", was designed to be as annoying as possible. His whole shtick was to say "I have no need for...." to a jillion different things. Part of the reason he ran away was because the cleric was using aid another on Oliver's character (a sneak-attack-wielding rogue), instead of Iron Bear, a fighter. This was of course logical because Oliver had higher damage. Grug tried to justify it with his higher attack bonus, which has no bearing on aid another usage. He also ran away because he got no healing, even though he never asked.

On the balance of that fight: We beat the encounter without any deaths, without Iron Bear. It was just a by-the-books 3rd level cleric with a vile spell.

Other stuff his characters do in Archie's game: He was constantly interrupting something I was saying, and justified it "Because he's Billy".

Archie's supposed "hatred of roleplaying" comes mainly from IC exasperation at his IC actions.

ChaosDefender24
2007-10-13, 06:37 PM
Actually CN was playing a spellthief so that he could steal the cleric's buff that was basically keeping him alive.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-10-13, 06:51 PM
Maybe you guys should sit down and try to talk things over, perhaps with a neutral moderator....


But that's just background. One rule he keeps bugging me about is Prepared Actions. I tell him that you can use prepared actions even outside of combat as long as you can percieve an enemy or expect something to happen, although it starts combat once you do. I've read a commentary about initiative in Dragon (which, I keep telling him, is 100% official DnD) that suggests that initiative should be rolled when the players do something aggresive, not just when the monsters show up (although if the players decide to immediately act hostile you roll like normal). He says you can't prepare actions outside combat because it doesn't say in the books. Then he says he must be able to prepare an action to automatically react to any threat he finds, which is completely broken.

So tell me, can you prepare an action outside of combat? Like if a rogue looks down on some goblins and readies to stab the one that gets closest?

Jasdoif already touched upon this, but allow me to reiterate.

You cannot ready an action outside of combat, but as soon as you become aware of an enemy initiative should be rolled. If you are aware of them and they are unaware of you get to act in the surprise round.

As has also been mentioned there are many ways you can prepare for combat outside of combat, which may call for perception checks and may give you a fairly good chance of getting to act in the surprise round.



INITIATIVE

Initiative Checks: At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions). If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll again to determine which one of them goes before the other.

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You canít use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed. A flat-footed character canít make attacks of opportunity.

Inaction: Even if you canít take actions, you retain your initiative score for the duration of the encounter.

SURPRISE

When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, youíre surprised.
Determining Awareness

Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks.

The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle donít get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-13, 06:52 PM
You people have claymassive problems, or a huge misunderstanding issue. First off, stop playing with each other until you can get someone else to DM you through a session, since that'll help point out issues. Second, even a "by the books" vile cleric is more or les a CR 4 encounter. Vile oozes cheese, as anyone who has seen the H. I. V. E. can tell you. Third, the idea of "we're discussing book rules, not houserules" can be eroded with a single point: Monks have to use gauntlets if they want to get enchantments on their fists, but by RAW, they aren't proficient with 'em. Touchť. And, as a last point, if point 1 can't be done, choose two of you, co-DM, and make a 2-2 square off, where 2 chars are pitted against the other 2. And make sure the 2 DM's come from one team each.

And please, this is the kind of "I didn't! He did!" argument. You have thrown posts of accusation and not fact at each other, and if you cannae solve yer issues, at least get of our board.

Solo
2007-10-13, 07:03 PM
Seconded.

Keep it off the boards. We don't care about your little conflict enough to host it.

ChaosDefender24
2007-10-13, 09:15 PM
Azerian, meet your new friend Necklace of Natural Weapons

lol oops

Azerian Kelimon
2007-10-13, 09:33 PM
Meet your new friend impracticality. A necklace slot is too valuable to waste it on the amulet. It's far more effective to just use the appropiate slot, m'friend. Man, if that was rules lawyering, then it's more overrated than I thought.

Grug
2007-10-13, 10:11 PM
Alright. Topic Closed.

ChaosDefender24
2007-10-13, 10:17 PM
I never said I was a rules lawyer.... I have a very elementary understanding of the game

Ralfarius
2007-10-14, 12:01 PM
I wish I had taken this option. Instead I went with option B: Take the claw full in the face, roll on the ground, and die.
Plus one million points.

As for the rest of you silly-billies: I don't want to come across as overly violent, but your best solution is a no-holds-barred, knock-down-drag-out fight. I know I've come to more than one understanding with someone after we've wailed on each other a bit. It really helps get the aggressive feelings out, and generally brings a new level of respect between the parties involved.

the guy
2007-10-14, 10:07 PM
Yes, this is a "my word against your word" situation and cannot be resolved here.

But Grug did say something constructive when he said, "So I told them I wouldn't be coming any more."

That's a good idea. Why don't you stay away from us? I've watched how you consistently undermined our efforts. We'd all be better off apart.

SCPRedMage
2007-10-14, 11:05 PM
I think you can't partially because the Bloodhound class from CAdv has a extraordinary ability to allow them ready an action outside initiative. What would be the point of this ability if everyone could do it all the time?
Would that be like a feat that gives a cleric Knowledge: Arcana as a clerical class skill, despite that skill already being on the cleric's class skill list?

Can't remember the name, but it's an Initiate feat (for Boccob) from Complete Divine, if I recall correctly.