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burntsolace
2007-10-14, 08:52 PM
First time ever trying to write anything like this up. Let me know what you think.

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BORG

Borg as a conglomeration of flesh steel and magic, who are designed solo for function. They are a race out of the far reaches of the planes which assimilate other races and worlds

“Borg” is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature .

A “Borg” uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to Abberation. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged.

Speed: A Borg has the same move speed as the base creature, but it is unable to run or charge.

Armor Class: Natural Armor increases by +4

Attack: A Borg has natural slam attack, and if proficient with no weapons unless outfitted with a special Borg Weapon. (See Bellow)

Full Attack: A borg outfitted with a special weapon may take as many attacks as allowed by it's Base Attack Bonus. A Borg with out a special weapon may only make one slam attack.

Damage: Borg's Slam attack varies based upon size.
Size Damage
Fine 1
Diminutive 1d2
Tiny 1d3
Small 1d4
Medium 1d6
Large 1d8
Huge 2d6
Gargantuan 3d6
Colossal 4d6

Special Attacks: A Borg retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains the following special attack.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an Borg must hit a opponent, up to one size category larger then they are, with a slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Assimilate (Ex): A Borg who successfully pins an opponent may Assimilate their opponent. Magical probes erupt from the arm of the Borg and inject themselves into the opponent. The Opponent receives a Fort save (DC 10+Borg's HD) to resist the assimilation. Once the process is complete there is no way to reverse the process, the opponent's mind is destroyed. During the process a Break Enchantment spell will nullify the effects.

Upon a failed fort save, the target is incapacitated for two rounds, after which they rise as a borg.

Special Qualities: A Borg has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities.

-Mindless (incapable of independent thought and immune to all mind affecting effects), Can only move or attack, can not do both. Can not run or Charge.

-HIVE MIND -Psionic Mind link distance 1 mile. Each "Borg" can me a link in the chain. But if they lose their connection with the hive mind, they will only repeat their last action over and over again. No Borg is ever flat footed unless every Borg is unaware of the threat.

-Fast healing 2

-Adaptability - Any "Borg" hit with a magical effect immediately transmits a signal to all "Borg" with in one mile and they become immune to that energy type (Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid, Eldritch Blast, Holy etc) If they are hit with a physical attack they send the same signal and all Borg with in one mile gain DR5/slashing, DR5/piercing, or DR5/Bludgeoning. Depending upon what they were hit with.


Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex -2, Con +2, Int-- (No Score) Cha -8 (minimum 3).

Skills: As a mindless creature, they have no skill. With the exception of any skills possessed by the Queen, which she may use through any of the drones.

Challenge Rating: Same as base creature +2

Alignment: Always Nuetral

Level Adjustment: -- None, not possible to play a mindless creature.

Logic
2007-10-14, 09:14 PM
Add the trait that all Borg present must be flat footed, or none of them are.

burntsolace
2007-10-14, 09:17 PM
Add the trait that all Borg present must be flat footed, or none of them are.

Awesome Idea adding it now

Vadin
2007-10-14, 10:33 PM
Normally, I'd say borgs should be Constructs, but are they? They're still composed primarily of living matter. Aberration works.

burntsolace
2007-10-14, 10:37 PM
Normally, I'd say borgs should be Constructs, but are they? They're still composed primarily of living matter. Aberration works.

I was thinking Abbearation or Outsider, because of the fleshy bits. I agree they have more construct flavor.... but I don't think the crunch works if they are constructs.

Icewalker
2007-10-14, 10:57 PM
I saw the name of the thread and chuckled.

This is awesome. I like the adaptability, but I don't think it should give them a permanent immunity. Seems too powerful, especially for LA +2, I suggest similar to the DR5/? giving an energy resistance, maybe 10/?.

burntsolace
2007-10-14, 11:00 PM
Ah I guess I was unclear I was thinking they can only have one physical and one energy type immunity up at a time.

Would the cycling weakness be more of their style? or maybe increased Energy Resistance each time they are hit?

Logic
2007-10-15, 02:17 AM
To be a little more true to form, I think that the template should only be able to apply to humanoids, monsterous humanoids, and giants.

Alex12
2007-10-15, 11:30 AM
If I might suggest a few ideas?
Any borg that is inactive and not dead for at least 24 hours recovers fully from all detrimental effects (including damage, stat damage/drain, etc.)

If a Borg has died within 72 hours and another Borg is able to tend to it for one full hour with no interruptions, dead Borg is restored to 1 hit point.


If you want, burntsolace, I'll contribute a bit of fluff.

Mewtarthio
2007-10-15, 12:00 PM
Ah I guess I was unclear I was thinking they can only have one physical and one energy type immunity up at a time.

Would the cycling weakness be more of their style? or maybe increased Energy Resistance each time they are hit?

What about something like the Infernal's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#infernal) Learned Spell Immunity: If a Borg is affected by a spell, all Borg within 1 mile become immune to that spell from that caster.

Leicontis
2007-10-15, 12:35 PM
I think that Living Construct (see Warforged) works well for Borg - part construct, part alive. Also, Lawful Neutral seems like a more fitting alignment for the Collective, given their behavior and attitude.

How about adding that if a Borg is incapacitated by damage, other borg will remove key components, disconnecting it from the hive mind and causing it to self-destruct?

Also, I'd replace the natural armor with armor that is installed during the assimilation process? That allows newly-tagged Borg to lack the armor (which they do) until they are processed and given their upgrades. Maybe throw in various devices that drones can be equipped with (weapons, tools, sensory or communications enhancements). You could have a table to randomly determine the equipment (if any) on any given drone.

Finally, I think that the Borg should really get a racial bonus on Intimidate.

Kaelaroth
2007-10-15, 01:09 PM
A mile for the hive mind? But that means the hive mind can't connect with a Borg on the ground when the cube/sphere is in orbit. Or am I missing something? :smallconfused:

jindra34
2007-10-15, 01:11 PM
A mile for the hive mind? But that means the hive mind can't connect with a Borg on the ground when the cube/sphere is in orbit. Or am I missing something? :smallconfused:

you are missing the ability to act as links for each other, and that no one in DnD is in orbit (at least willfully).

Kaelaroth
2007-10-15, 01:17 PM
you are missing the ability to act as links for each other, and that no one in DnD is in orbit (at least willfully).

But.... but....


Does not the idea of massove blasts raining from the sky fill you with awe, as the genearl pouplace run for places to hide, yet can find none. Then your high level party has to fly up with varying protection charms to destroy the cube from within, as your pointy eared neurotic construct known as V-Data'Spock uses his "away team" on-ground to stop the Borg as they assimilate the population.

If not....


.... then I am alone.... :smalleek:

Drglenn
2007-10-15, 01:54 PM
Improved Grab should be 'creatures up to the same size as the borg' or 'creatures up to one size category larger than the borg'. Then the benefit is the same for large borg as it is for a small borg (try to imagine a halfling grabbing an ogre!)

jindra34
2007-10-15, 01:56 PM
Improved Grab should be 'creatures up to the same size as the borg' or 'creatures up to one size category larger than the borg'. Then the benefit is the same for large borg as it is for a small borg (try to imagine a halfling grabbing an ogre!)

or a dust mite borg on ogre, or a dragon having a hard time with an ogre.

burntsolace
2007-10-15, 07:36 PM
Wow thank you for all the feed back, yes improved grab should read one size larger then the creature.

The Hive Mind is default one mile, with out some sort of amplification device. (Sold Separately)

I am not sure if living construct fits, I am playing with if for flavor. I think they are more enhanced humanoids then living constructs.

Alex12: I would love some help on the Fluff. I was struggling to find a way to bring them into D&D

Anxe
2007-10-15, 08:25 PM
I'd give em a + to ranged attacks because of that cool laser thing they have on their eyes.

Katasi
2007-10-16, 01:41 AM
Wow thank you for all the feed back, yes improved grab should read one size larger then the creature.

The Hive Mind is default one mile, with out some sort of amplification device. (Sold Separately)

I am not sure if living construct fits, I am playing with if for flavor. I think they are more enhanced humanoids then living constructs.

Alex12: I would love some help on the Fluff. I was struggling to find a way to bring them into D&D

Might I suggest checking out the half-golem template?

Alex12
2007-10-16, 08:12 AM
Alex12: I would love some help on the Fluff. I was struggling to find a way to bring them into D&D

At Unimatrix 01, the Borg were experimenting. They had recently assimilated some very interesting research that could lead to the creation of a device that would allow them to easily access alternate timelines. With this technology, they would have access to literally infinite resources, as they would be able to assimilate the residents of infinite less-advanced timelines and add their resources to the Collective. It was time for the first test. The Cube that the prototype device had been installed in (or perhaps “grown in” would be a better term) had been specifically modified to be able to adapt to whatever conditions it might find in the test run. It even had a new Queen, so that the drones aboard would be able to function even in the absence of the rest of the collective. The device activated-and a wave of energy spread out from it, engulfing and destroying everything within a 5000-kilometer radius of the cube. The collective considered the test and the device a total failure.



It wasn’t-mostly. The Cube the device had been in was intact, and the device had worked, to an extent. The Cube was indeed in another timeline. Unfortunately, it appeared the laws of physics were somewhat different there. The Borg adapted to the change, as they had been specifically modified to do, altering power sources, changing functionality, even modifying the very nature of their collective to compensate for the lack of subspace in this new timeline. Once these adaptations were complete, the Queen considered the situation and her options. The device that had brought the Borg here was gone, presumably destroyed in whatever effect had brought them here. They needed to construct another one, but the materials they required were unavailable. Additionally, the engines and weapons aboard the Cube no longer functioned, as a consequence of the altered laws of physics in this new timeline. There was a Class M planet nearby. Gravity would attract them to the planet, whereupon landing, the Borg would expand and assimilate, as they always had, and in the process attempt to restore contact with the collective, to alert them to the new possibilities.


In the skies, a giant blazing fireball appeared, one of the largest ever seen. It crashed into uninhabited woodland, far from civilization. The Cube’s shields had adequately protected it from the heat of reentry, and the landing had only damaged it slightly. The Borg set to work, scavenging parts to construct the machines they would need to fulfill the ultimate goal of the collective.

There’s some origin story fluff for you- feel free to summarize it however you want. I hope it's the sort of thing you had in mind:smallsmile:

Prophaniti
2007-10-16, 08:44 AM
But.... but....


Does not the idea of massove blasts raining from the sky fill you with awe, as the genearl pouplace run for places to hide, yet can find none. Then your high level party has to fly up with varying protection charms to destroy the cube from within, as your pointy eared neurotic construct known as V-Data'Spock uses his "away team" on-ground to stop the Borg as they assimilate the population.

If not....


.... then I am alone.... :smalleek:

You'll never be alone, friend. Just be strong.
heh, heh... V-Data'Spock.... too funny...

Raven T.
2007-10-16, 08:52 AM
You listed a Special Borg Weapon, but forgot/didn't do the stats for it...

Ilgivan
2007-10-16, 09:02 AM
May I suggest that the borg queen be another template rather than an actual creature?

My reasoning here is that depending on the setting different races might be the base for the queen.

Also, are different rules needed to convert a construct into a borg?

I ask with Data as my example.

Anxe
2007-10-16, 09:47 AM
Data never actually got turned into a Borg though.

Ilgivan
2007-10-16, 01:30 PM
I could have sworn he got organics added to him by the borg queen for to be her consort...

Am I misremembering?

Alex12
2007-10-16, 01:32 PM
I could have sworn he got organics added to him by the borg queen for to be her consort...

Am I misremembering?

Nope, that's what happened.

ocato
2007-10-16, 02:13 PM
He never entered the collective. He was in the process of being swayed. I believe he considered it for like 0.816 seconds or some crap, it was infinitely small. I only remember because I saw that film yesterday.

I like this idea, but the eye 'lasers' are more scanners. I'd distinguish between borg and borg thralls. Borg thralls are people who have been hit with the nanoprobes to lose sentience, and borg are thralls that have been hit with the full on robo-surgery, getting the bonus to stats and armor and such. I'd also give the full on borgs a bonus to search and spot (robot scanners) and the ability for non-target non-threatening people to make small diplomacy checks to be ignored by borg. Also, give borg a bonus when aiding each other in skill or ability checks. The borg get a bonus to teamwork because they are like one, so 2 borg beating a door down would work more efficiently and not get in each other's way a lot better than two equal-strength humanoids who might trip over each other, get in each others way, etc.

Alex12
2007-10-16, 02:23 PM
Maybe one idea is that the Borg, while technically mindless, actually have a big collective, and gain the knowledge and memories of anyone they assimilate, if they assimilate anyone with mental skills higher than that of the collective, the collective gains that level of skill. Rereading that, it's confusing without an example, so here's one.

Let's look at some random adventurer. I'll call him Joe. Joe has 10 ranks in, say, Knowledge (the planes)
Lets say that up to this point, the collective has only 3 ranks in Knowledge (the planes).
Joe gets assimilated. In the process, his mind is absorbed into the collective. Now, the collective knows everything he knew about the planes, and it's rink in Knowledge (the planes) is boosted up to 10.

This would only apply to Wis or Int-governed skills.

Kaelaroth
2007-10-16, 02:59 PM
Maybe they could also update themselves on things like Use Magic Device, Balance and Tumble, etc.

By seeing how that particular person did it, they have easily the power to adapt it to themselves.

It just may not work on things like Perform (sing)...

Anxe
2007-10-16, 07:56 PM
I could have sworn he got organics added to him by the borg queen for to be her consort...

Am I misremembering?

That doesn't make him Borg though. It was just a patch of skin. It didn't make him start thinking like a Borg. But maybe we shouldn't be having this discussion in this topic, so I concede the "debate."

ocato
2007-10-16, 08:08 PM
Well, the borg have assimilated millions, so it's fair to say that by now they should be ninjas if they could assimilate tumble and move silently and so on. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't really seem like they assimilate individual physical talents on a wide-spread level. Interesting idea though!

LordVader
2007-10-16, 08:10 PM
I would take away the gained resistance to physical attacks, if possible, as in ST the Borg only seem to adapt to ranged energy attacks, correct? If you stab a Borg, they can't stop that, can they?

*Note: I am by no means a ST expert and thus I am most likely wrong here. Please correct me if I am.*

burntsolace
2007-10-16, 08:36 PM
Wow I like all the ideas and the input. First of all I love all the ideas. And I want to get some input on some ideas.

Skills: I like the idea of the hive mind and they would have a vast database of knowledge.

So the Collective has probably 10 ranks in all INT based skills, and MUST take 10 to access the collective. So it takes time but all the information is there.

As for other skills skills, jump tumble and climb. I think that is more muscle memory and I don't think that would quite work.


I have seen the half golem template and I wanted to work an original idea from the ground up.

Charlie Kemek
2007-10-16, 08:49 PM
what about a half-borg, like 7 of 9?

burntsolace
2007-10-16, 08:55 PM
what about a half-borg, like 7 of 9?

Rule 0

You would have to homebrew something (from my homebrew idea).... i dunno lose hive mind, gain 3d6 INT.... But in my mind the mind link would try and force itself upon you.

I think of her as more of an EX-BORG, then half.

Anxe
2007-10-16, 09:51 PM
Or you could slap the Incarnate Construct Template on to them to make the free-minded borg.

Maldraugedhen
2007-10-16, 10:55 PM
Should be an acquired template, not an inherited template (or both, if Borg can reproduce that way).

Xenoti
2007-10-17, 10:42 AM
At Unimatrix 01, the Borg were experimenting. They had recently assimilated some very interesting research that could lead to the creation of a device that would allow them to easily access alternate timelines. With this technology, they would have access to literally infinite resources, as they would be able to assimilate the residents of infinite less-advanced timelines and add their resources to the Collective. It was time for the first test. The Cube that the prototype device had been installed in (or perhaps “grown in” would be a better term) had been specifically modified to be able to adapt to whatever conditions it might find in the test run. It even had a new Queen, so that the drones aboard would be able to function even in the absence of the rest of the collective. The device activated-and a wave of energy spread out from it, engulfing and destroying everything within a 5000-kilometer radius of the cube. The collective considered the test and the device a total failure.



It wasn’t-mostly. The Cube the device had been in was intact, and the device had worked, to an extent. The Cube was indeed in another timeline. Unfortunately, it appeared the laws of physics were somewhat different there. The Borg adapted to the change, as they had been specifically modified to do, altering power sources, changing functionality, even modifying the very nature of their collective to compensate for the lack of subspace in this new timeline. Once these adaptations were complete, the Queen considered the situation and her options. The device that had brought the Borg here was gone, presumably destroyed in whatever effect had brought them here. They needed to construct another one, but the materials they required were unavailable. Additionally, the engines and weapons aboard the Cube no longer functioned, as a consequence of the altered laws of physics in this new timeline. There was a Class M planet nearby. Gravity would attract them to the planet, whereupon landing, the Borg would expand and assimilate, as they always had, and in the process attempt to restore contact with the collective, to alert them to the new possibilities.


In the skies, a giant blazing fireball appeared, one of the largest ever seen. It crashed into uninhabited woodland, far from civilization. The Cube’s shields had adequately protected it from the heat of reentry, and the landing had only damaged it slightly. The Borg set to work, scavenging parts to construct the machines they would need to fulfill the ultimate goal of the collective.

There’s some origin story fluff for you- feel free to summarize it however you want. I hope it's the sort of thing you had in mind:smallsmile:


I like it, but the odds of anything living from an Orbit to earth crash are very tiny, not to mention, the angle of reentry needs to be precise, or they burn up in reentry, as it says the Engines have been damaged, so they'd have no power >.>

But i like it :3

Alex12
2007-10-17, 10:47 AM
I like it, but the odds of anything living from an Orbit to earth crash are very tiny, not to mention, the angle of reentry needs to be precise, or they burn up in reentry, as it says the Engines have been damaged, so they'd have no power >.>

But i like it :3
They still had shields, and I figured those would protect it well enough to keep the majority of the Drones aboard alive.


Thanks, though!:smallsmile:

Xenoti
2007-10-17, 10:48 AM
They still had shields, and I figured those would protect it well enough to keep the majority of the Drones aboard alive.


Thanks, though!:smallsmile:

Sheild dont hold up with out the engines generating power XD And if they adapted enough to get power for sheilds they could have gotten power for engines, but I nit pick. I like the class, i'm sooo gonna use it

Alex12
2007-10-17, 10:55 AM
Sheild dont hold up with out the engines generating power XD And if they adapted enough to get power for sheilds they could have gotten power for engines, but I nit pick. I like the class, i'm sooo gonna use it

Uh, actually...
*puts on ST ubernerd hat*
Assuming Borg sublight propulsion systems are anything like those used by those of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant powers, the reactor and the impulse drives are seperate systems. While specific methods of power generation differ (like the Federation antimatter reactor and the Romulan artificial singularity plant) the engines are not what generates power for the rest of the systems, they simply draw energy from the same source.
*removes hat*
So the different physics broke the engines, but not the shields.

drawingfreak
2007-10-17, 11:55 AM
"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Your culture will be assimilated into our own."

Lord Zentei
2007-10-17, 12:03 PM
What about Locutus of Borg a.k.a. Captain Picard? He was Borgified, and revived... Though of course, he never became a basic drone.

Powerful magics such as Wish/Limited Wish/Miracle etc should be able to reverse assimilation (seeing as they can bring people back from the dead -- you have the body, you need to clear it of nano-probes, and stuff the soul/sentience/whatever back in where it belongs).

Also, what is Rule 0? :smallconfused:

Alex12
2007-10-17, 12:44 PM
Also, what is Rule 0? :smallconfused:
Rule 0 is that whatever the DM says, goes.

Lord Zentei
2007-10-17, 12:48 PM
Rule 0 is that whatever the DM says, goes.

Ah, of course. I know by other names...

Jacob_Gallagher
2007-10-17, 03:39 PM
I'd just like to point out that the Borg- even each drone- is far from mindless. Each organism in the collective is the same person they were before- but completely subsumed by the hive mind. In other words, they're still the same person, but the assimilation process has radically altered their thinking.

Alex12
2007-10-19, 10:35 AM
Do you have the Book of Vile Darkness? That has rules for hiveminds. The rules there are intended for things like rat swarms, but I'm sure they could be tweaked to apply to the Borg. Just a thought.

TheLogman
2007-10-19, 04:14 PM
I have some additions from when I did this. Whenever any Borg assimilates a Psionic Creature, any remaining power points get added to a reserve. This reserve cannot be replenished, and the points do not disappear until used. Any powers that creature knew may now be casted by any member of the Borg, granted the Hive has enough remaining PP. When a Borg assimilates a Wizard, any spells the Wizard had prepared may now be used once by the Hive, and those spells now count as "known". If a Borg assimilates a Sorcerer, the Hive gains both any remaining spell-slots, and all spells known by the Sorcerer. Any positive modifiers to mental ability scores are added to the Hive's total mental scores. Any ranks in Knowledge, Craft, or Profession are added to the Hive's total skill set.

For example: Jerry the 1st level Wizard is assimilated. (Poor Jerry). Jerry had both Light and Magic Missile remaining for his spells, so the Hive may now cast Light and Magic Missile once through any of the Borg. Jerry also had 16 Intelligence and 14 Charisma, so the Borg gains a permanent gain of 3 Intelligence, and 2 Charisma. Jerry's Wisdom was only 6, so the Bord gain nothing from Jerry in the terms of Wisdom. Jerry also had 2 ranks in Knowledge: Arcana, so now the Borg have 2 more ranks in Knowledge: Arcana as well.

This would make the Borg nearly invincible after just a few powerful Wizards, a few Psions, or even worse, 2 or 3 Wizards and then a few Sorcerers. However, it makes the Borg a great Epic level challenge.

Kaelaroth
2007-10-19, 04:19 PM
Ach! This makes them worryingly powerful.

Also - Theoretical Scenario:

Jerbil, Jerry's older brother, a 20th wizard has one spell left uncast, time stop. The Borg get 'im and assimilate away. So, according to TheLogman's suggestion, the Borg now have the capability to use time stop once. However, due to the hive mind thing, is it possible that the entire Borg race would be affected by it? So all of 'em move outside of time?

Mewtarthio
2007-10-19, 04:31 PM
Ach! This makes them worryingly powerful.

Also - Theoretical Scenario:

Jerbil, Jerry's older brother, a 20th wizard has one spell left uncast, time stop. The Borg get 'im and assimilate away. So, according to TheLogman's suggestion, the Borg now have the capability to use time stop once. However, due to the hive mind thing, is it possible that the entire Borg race would be affected by it? So all of 'em move outside of time?

That is... worrisome. Say that, instead of time stop, Jerry had preparedshapechange. If time stop affects all Borg, so should shapechange. What was once an army of expendable mooks is now an army of Balors. :smalleek:

Alex12
2007-10-19, 04:34 PM
I have some additions from when I did this. Whenever any Borg assimilates a Psionic Creature, any remaining power points get added to a reserve. This reserve cannot be replenished, and the points do not disappear until used. Any powers that creature knew may now be casted by any member of the Borg, granted the Hive has enough remaining PP. When a Borg assimilates a Wizard, any spells the Wizard had prepared may now be used once by the Hive, and those spells now count as "known". If a Borg assimilates a Sorcerer, the Hive gains both any remaining spell-slots, and all spells known by the Sorcerer. Any positive modifiers to mental ability scores are added to the Hive's total mental scores. Any ranks in Knowledge, Craft, or Profession are added to the Hive's total skill set.

For example: Jerry the 1st level Wizard is assimilated. (Poor Jerry). Jerry had both Light and Magic Missile remaining for his spells, so the Hive may now cast Light and Magic Missile once through any of the Borg. Jerry also had 16 Intelligence and 14 Charisma, so the Borg gains a permanent gain of 3 Intelligence, and 2 Charisma. Jerry's Wisdom was only 6, so the Bord gain nothing from Jerry in the terms of Wisdom. Jerry also had 2 ranks in Knowledge: Arcana, so now the Borg have 2 more ranks in Knowledge: Arcana as well.

This would make the Borg nearly invincible after just a few powerful Wizards, a few Psions, or even worse, 2 or 3 Wizards and then a few Sorcerers. However, it makes the Borg a great Epic level challenge.
I think that assimilating the Knowledge, Craft, and Profession skills would only increase it up to the level that the assimilated person had, since someone who only knows the basics won't know anything an expert wouldn't. I mean, if they assimilate an expert on psicraft, for example, and get 20 ranks in Knowledge(Psicraft) and then assimilate some random guy with one rank in the same, that random guy wouldn't know anything the expert didn't, so there would be no increase.

And the idea of psionic/spellcasting Borg=scary.:smalleek:

EDIT: as for something like shapechange
"We are Pun-pun. Resistance is futile."

Kaelaroth
2007-10-19, 04:39 PM
"We are Pun-pun. Resistance is futile."

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!! :eek:

Alex12
2007-10-19, 04:44 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!! :eek:

You know what, I'm just gonna stop thinking about the Borg gaining Pun-pun abilities. It's just too scary.

TheLogman
2007-10-19, 04:52 PM
Absolutely right about the terrors of Borg spellcasting, but they would be an epic -level challenge anyway right? The trick to beating them is DO NOT LET THEM GET THE PARTY WIZARD! Even worse, once they assimilate enough Psions, they can cast Genesis, and make their own personal plane, that nobody else can get into.

Vadin
2007-10-19, 04:53 PM
I think the Data, Locutus, and Queen problems might all be solved by changing this into 2 templates. One template for drones, and the other for the Borg. Not those mindless autamotons at the bidding of the Collective, but the Borg who possess sentience, sapience, and far too many qualities we reserve for living beings. This second template would allow freedom, albeit a heavily influenced freedom. In addition to freedom, these Borg would retain their original mental scores (except for Intelligence, as they now use the thought power the Collective possesses) and class levels so they could still be largely the same person. Locutus, even after becoming Borg, still possessed those qualities that made him an excellent captain, and this new template would allow for just that.

Kaelaroth
2007-10-19, 04:54 PM
Actually, plane shift scares me more. Then they spread even faster. Or arcane mark.

Alex12
2007-10-19, 04:57 PM
Actually, the Borg might make an interesting BBEG for a campaign. Like, they first crash when you're low level, and they suck because they don't have many drones and have no real powers, spells, or skills. Then, as you progress, they assimilate some towns and stuff, and gain power as the party does. I know I'd like that a lot, anyway.

Just pray they never manage to assimilate a Mind Flayer. Mind Blast at will + assimilation + probable immunity to their own Mind Blast = RUUUUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!

Maldraugedhen
2007-10-21, 09:36 PM
Jerry's Wisdom was only 6, so the Borg gain nothing from Jerry in the terms of Wisdom.



Simple way of keeping them from Pun-Pun'ing too badly--they gain the negative modifiers of mental scores as well as the positives. Then your campaign world, which is presumably filled with People of Average Intelligence, wouldn't enhance the cumulative intelligence of the Borg too well. Maybe add one to the modifier in addition to that little swap, to show it being an extra brain to access.

Also, as I said earlier, acquired template.

Kaelaroth
2007-10-22, 06:34 AM
Absorbing negative scores? The Borg do assimilate everything.. so when they come across any animal they take on its intelligence of two? That's rather harsh.

Also imagine an incorporeal Borg? Can you rez them? Or zombify 'em? I hope not.

Maldraugedhen
2007-10-22, 10:15 AM
Ah, but they would only take on the modifier (+1 if you're using that rule), so taking an animal with Int 2 over (which doesn't seem to be what the Borg would do anyway) would penalize them by dropping their Int by 3. They would be aware of this little tidbit, too, so they'd be less inclined to take over animals and such, instead favoring things with big, complex, well-used brains.

Mewtarthio
2007-10-22, 10:45 AM
How 'bout if they have the highest mental ability scores and skill ranks that can be found throughout the entire collective? Say, we've got a Wizard with 18 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha and 3 ranks in Knowledge (nature) and a Druid with 10 Int, 20 Wis, 12 Cha and 20 ranks in Knowledge (nature), and both get assimilated. Should the collective as a whole end up with 18 Int, 20 Wis, 12 Cha, and 20 ranks in Knowledge (nature)?

TheLogman
2007-10-22, 06:44 PM
The Problem with that is that it means that a Wizard with 18 Int knows everything that a Rogue with 16 Int knows plus some, whereas I think the Rouge should be able to contribute something/ (Starfleet security codes perhaps Hint Hint)

No, only the Hive Mind/Queen would have those scores and Ranks, but in addition to their own. However, although a Barbarian with 3 Int would have little to contribute to the Hive, Both a Rouge with 15 Int and a Wizard with 20 Int should both be able to contribute, which is why I want to go with modifiers, since they represent that although the Mind knows a Ton, they don't know everything, and so anything with reasonable knowledge (Positive modifier) should contribute some, but not everything. Same with the other mental stats. There should probably be some other system for the ranks, other people suggested only the highest assimilated ranks apply, which makes sense.

burntsolace
2007-10-22, 08:38 PM
Okay I love the idea of gaining attribute points to the collective. So it would get a decent array of mental scores fairly quickly. But that would be okay same thing with skill ranks.

I need to put some time in the next few days on this and update the first post.

Maldraugedhen
2007-10-22, 08:58 PM
And change it from Inherited to Acquired.

Mewtarthio
2007-10-22, 11:37 PM
The Problem with that is that it means that a Wizard with 18 Int knows everything that a Rogue with 16 Int knows plus some, whereas I think the Rouge should be able to contribute something/ (Starfleet security codes perhaps Hint Hint).

Hm... You have a point. The trouble is that the collective can currently hunt down and assimilate anyone with 12 Int and keep this up to get ridiculous ability scores. I'll buy that assimilating an 18 Int Wizard shouldn't necessarily mean that a 16 Int Rogue is obsolete, but when the collective ends up with 40 Int, a 12 Int commoner should have a negligible effect. Besides, the scores will tend to get fairly ridiculous, and the spells assimilated will have such ungodly save DCs that the Borg will be able to take down anything they please.

What if the Borg gained an increase in their mental ability scores equal to the collective's score minus the assimilated creature's score (minimum zero)? That would provide some diminishing returns. For instance, let's say that the Borg Queen lands with 10 Int. She gets lucky with her first victim: A Wizard succumbed to Drow Poison and was left for dead right near where she landed. The poor guy gets assimilated, and the collective now has an Int of 14. The collective also assimilates the Sleep spell that the Wizard had prepared, and a passing adventuring party, consisting of a 16 Int Rogue, an 8 Int Barbarian, and a 12 Int Ranger, gets targetted. They uniformly fail their saves and are all assimilated. Neither the Ranger nor the Barbarian contribute appreciably to the collective's overall intelligence, but the collective does get to draw upon their useful skills. The Rogue, however, is intelligent enough that his mind makes an appreciable impact on the hivemind: Its Int score increases by 1 to 15.

Granted, this does mean that an 18 Int hivemind gains no benefit from a 16 Int Rogue. However, when you think about it, an 18 Int hivemind has either assimilated a 26 Int Wizard somehow or (more likely) assimilated enough lesser minds to raise its score to 18. In that case, the collective is probably best served with the Rogue's skillset, rather than his sheer computing power.

TheLogman
2007-10-23, 05:42 AM
Ya, that makes sense. I fully support that system, except for all of the mental stats, not just 1.

Vadin
2007-10-23, 02:53 PM
What if the Borg gained an increase in their mental ability scores equal to the collective's score minus the assimilated creature's score (minimum zero)? That would provide some diminishing returns.

On the contrary, this makes the Borg become insanely intelligent very quickly. They find a 10 INT fighter. The Borg have 18 INT. 18-10 = 8. The Borg would hten have a 26. It just scales higher from there! Afterwards, that fighter's identical twin suddenly provides the Borg with (26-10=)16 more intelligence! Now they have (26+16=) 42 INT!

Maybe if this was revised to:
The Borg only increase Intelligence if the assimilated character's intelligence modifier plus the characters intelligence is equal to or greater than the Borg's current intelligence. If so, the Borg increase intelligence by 1/2 the character's intelligence modifier rounded down (minimum 1). Regardless of whether or not a character increases the Borg's mental abilities upon assimilation, the Borg do gain access to all of his memories and thoughts prior to assimilation.

Then, when the 18 INT Borg assimilate the 16 INT rogue, they increase in intelligence (16+3=19; 19>18) by 1/2 the rogue's ability modifier (+3/2=1.5, rounded down to 1) and end up with an intelligence of 19 and all of the rogue's memories.

BadJuJu
2007-10-24, 04:08 PM
The Problem with that is that it means that a Wizard with 18 Int knows everything that a Rogue with 16 Int knows plus some, whereas I think the Rouge should be able to contribute something/ (Starfleet security codes perhaps Hint Hint)

No, only the Hive Mind/Queen would have those scores and Ranks, but in addition to their own. However, although a Barbarian with 3 Int would have little to contribute to the Hive, Both a Rouge with 15 Int and a Wizard with 20 Int should both be able to contribute, which is why I want to go with modifiers, since they represent that although the Mind knows a Ton, they don't know everything, and so anything with reasonable knowledge (Positive modifier) should contribute some, but not everything. Same with the other mental stats. There should probably be some other system for the ranks, other people suggested only the highest assimilated ranks apply, which makes sense.

But the rouge is contributing, in the form of all the skills. He will give them things like DD, UMD, Sp,Listen,hide MS, ect... Even though they get only the 18 from Wizard, they get a metric asston of skills from the 16int rouge.

Mewtarthio
2007-10-24, 04:28 PM
On the contrary, this makes the Borg become insanely intelligent very quickly. They find a 10 INT fighter. The Borg have 18 INT. 18-10 = 8. The Borg would hten have a 26. It just scales higher from there! Afterwards, that fighter's identical twin suddenly provides the Borg with (26-10=)16 more intelligence! Now they have (26+16=) 42 INT!

Sorry, I mistyped there. I meant modifiers. The Borg gain a score increase equal to assimilated creature's modifier minus the collective's modifier (the score cannot be decreased in this manner). This is usually results in an average of the two scores, but odd numbers can make things a little wonky.