Help me price Mana Potions

[arkol]

I'm using the spell point variant in my upcoming homebrew world. I'm not using the unerthed arcane one, but it's based on it, but I sort of fixed (well it will be tested by the players we'll see how that goes).

Flavour-wise the goal of the spell-point variant use is to be a better system representing Mana. Spellcasters generate mana per day. They can use it whoever they want. If they only use it on high level spells it will obviously burn faster, if they use it only on low-level spells they can cast a lot more, but it less effect of course.

But what is a mana-based Magic system without mana potions? :smallbiggrin:

So actually making the item is fairly straight foward. There's four types of potions. Each one add spell-points to your "pool". Each potion gives enough spell points to cast a spell (from lvl1 trough 4). Drinking is a standard action like any potion. You can't go above your maximum spell points obviously.

Now the problem is pricing. Despite the similar name, mana potions have nothing to do with healing potions or really any potions.

An healing potion for instance, can be used by anyone. ANYONE. But it's never more then an healing potion. You drink it, you get healed. That's it.
(that's another problem, unliek scrolls/wands they are of no use to characters with ranks in UMD...)

A mana potion on the other hand is only usefull for spellcasters.
But for a spellcaster it's VERY usefull. A mana potion who gives you 3 spell points can make you cast ANY spell of lvl2 you know (or that you prepared). Or three lvl1 spells (again any that you know/prepared). Or you can pool with the ones you already have and cast an higher level spell.

And that's another problem. A normal potion can be of any spell. Even the ones you don't know. Mana potions don't allow a wizard to cast an healing spell... but allow him to cast ANY spell he knows.


So all in all mana potions are mroe class specific, but much better for those you can use them any other usable item. SO my question is how to price these mana potions.

On a sidenote what should be a good name for the 4 kinds of potions? At first I thought of going with the healign spell middle sname (ie: Minor Mana Potion for the first one) but Serious Mana Potion sounds rather stupid.

They could go like general magic items power (minor, medium (or just mana potion) major) but that's only 3....

[Pyroconstruct]

I would suggest basing it off of the price of a potion of Mnemonic Enhancer/Mage's Lucubration. This effect is pretty similar to those spells - they recall a spell you already cast, this lets you get back one of your spell slots...pretty similar, although not quite identical, and I'd argue about as useful.

I suggest using a 4th level potion + 50g (price of a Mnemonic Enchancer) for the cost of getting back enough SP to cast a 3rd level spell, add a bit, maybe 10-25% (since you also could cast several lower level spells), and take proportial pricing for smaller doses.


Now, this one does assume that you can't do this in the middle of combat, and have to wait 10 minutes for the potion to kick in. If you can use these to regain SP midfight, we're back to no basis, although I would probably just multiply the above by the level of spell it restores. Running out of spells midcombat is pretty rare, typically casters wind up drained over the course of encounters, so it's not massively gamebreaking or anything).

[Pyroconstruct]

Minor/Lesser/(no title)/Greater would be my advice for names.

[arkol]

I brainstorm this with a fellow DM, and he also sugested those spells as basis.

However due to the system, the spells themselves suck. You waste 5SPs to get back 3. Obviously bad deal. So we did some math and eyeball it a bit and we came up with 2 potions only.

Minor Mana Potion: 100gp, restores 1SP

Mana Potion: 750gp, restores 5SPs

What do you think?

[Pyroconstruct]

How many spells of a given level does a caster in your system likely know? That goes a long way towards determining how powerful this effect is.

[arkol]

Spell known are standard.

IN a normal system this potions would be the equivelent of:

Minor: cast any lvl1 spell that you know

Normal: cast any lvl3 spell that you know, or a lvl2 and 2 lvl1 or 5lvl1

And also you can use it to fuel higher level spells. Like you have 4SP in your pool you drink a minor one and you can now cast another lvl3 spell.....

[Pyroconstruct]

Then I think you're overpricing them a bit. A 1st level sorcerer, for example, knows only 3 first level spells. Instead of the potion, they could have 3 scrolls (one of each spell) which is cheaper and better. I'd probably cut your prices in half.

[Pyroconstruct]

Actually, now I'm seeing a problem with using the lowbie ones out of combat to rejuice your high level spells. I would consider just capping the total number of mana potions you can drink in a single day to, say, 5, to prevent it getting too out of hand.

[Jack_Simth]

Personally?

Make it a fraction of the cost of a Pearl of Power.

A one-use, use-activated item that duplicates a spell effect (like a potion) estimates at 50 * spell level * caster level gp (plus other stuff); an infinite use, use-activated item that duplicates a spell effect estimates at 2,000 * spell level * caster level gp (plus other stuff). When you reduce that to a 1/day item, it's one fifth that, or 400 * spell level * caster level.

Working backwards, the 1/day use-activated item costs 8 times the potion.

Divide the cost of the appropriet level Pearl of Power (a 1/day item) by 8, and you've got a fair price. So a 1st level potion (1 mana point) would run 1000/8 gp = 125 gp. A 2nd level (3 mana points) would run 500 gp. A 3rd (5 mana points), 1,125 gp. A 4th (7 mana points), 2,000 gp. Or, if you want to avoid look up and divide, it's 125*spell level*spell level gp.